stud athlete's incredible minor league debut

As a baseball parent, I feel his pain.

On the bright side, he has walked 7 times so at least he has a .206 on base percentage.

BTW, he now has 27 AB's....

I've heard Football coaches say on several occasions..."Speed doesn't matter if you are just getting to the wrong point fast all the time." Still need skill to compliment athleticism. Gotta have both.

You can't steal 1B.

Nice to see the Red Sox's scouting department doing such a good job.

This isn't just the Redsox scouting department. It's scouts in all organizations . Many many athletic fast young men are drafted because you can't teach speed or athleticism. Many many of these types of players fail
Out of minor league baseball. The clubs take their chances because if just one puts it all together out of let's say 100 then it was worth it. Been watching this for years but finally see the mindset. Not going to change. Listen to
The draft next year they say
It over and over teams going for athleticism.I agree skills are important but teams feel they can teach skills.

^ It is just like a kid who throws 95+, they will take him figuring he can be taught how to pitch even though he hits the mascot (ala Bull Durham).
The same is true of other sports as well, like drafting kids who are 7'0"+ in basketball, or sprinters trying to make them into receivers in football.

Yahoo Sports is a joke. Why celebrate an eighteen year kid failing? I'm thinking the writer of the article had those stats as a LL'er.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Yahoo Sports is a joke. Why celebrate an eighteen year kid failing? I'm thinking the writer of the article had those stats as a LL'er.

I agree, very sad that someone finds pleasure in writing about a HS player who probably had limited time at bats in HS, is 3000 miles away from home and just learning to play the game at the professional level (that's what most do in GCL and AZL).
Any idea if he will be headed off to college for football? If that the case, seems he has the best of both worlds, a paid professional athlete and one with a full ride to college.

I feel sorry for the kid, but as a University of Washington fan, I am somewhat happy that he may be focusing solely on football (a sport in which his gifts are reportedly even more stunning, and far less based on "potential") sooner than later.....

Bottom line is great athleticism is a big tool and one you can't teach.if it ever clicks for this young man he might be a star. My point being that all clubs will draft players like this.

Nothing good was meant by that article from Yahoo Sports. Shame on them for allowing a writer to fill space just for the sake of an article.

This just my opinion but it's how I feel. This guy is a professional athlete so he is fair game. Once again a draft spot was taken from REAL baseball players and is a waste of time for everyone. This isn't like the guy started out hitting .189. He can't even touch the ball. Lets just go to the US Olympic track team and sign all the sprinters. And I say this despite having a son who's best tool is is speed.

If he makes the decision to go back to football, how early can he make that move? Can he go this fall? Are there rules or clauses in his contract that would prevent him from going this fall?

Sometimes there will be a clause in the contract about forfeiting bonus if quitting before a certain date. I'll bet an 18th round pick doesn't have this clause. It's for high picks with significant bonus money. Jeff Samardzija had quit/forfeit bonus and play football/forfeit bonus clauses in his Cubs contract since he was a potential first round NFL pick.

quote:

Originally posted by Three Bagger:
This just my opinion but it's how I feel. This guy is a professional athlete so he is fair game. Once again a draft spot was taken from REAL baseball players and is a waste of time for everyone. This isn't like the guy started out hitting .189. He can't even touch the ball. Lets just go to the US Olympic track team and sign all the sprinters. And I say this despite having a son who's best tool is is speed.

I don't believe that 18,19 year olds who probably got next to nothing for signing is fair game. I don't believe that any young player just entering the professional ranks is fair game, not at 1200-1500 a month.

I also don't get the remark about drafting a REAL baseball player. FWIW, he IS a REAL baseball player, he is getting paid to play. He wasn't a REAL baseball player as an amatuer, or are others at that level.

The bottom line here is that the player was offered an opportunity, if he doesn't learn to use it, he will lose it. The scouts saw something in him they liked, those that don't agree, need to learn to live with it, this is the way it is.

Season in the GCL ends earlier than most leagues. I am going to assume that he will head off to college football and is allowed to play regardless. he is allowed to play football by NCAA rules. There may be an agreement that he can leave early or maybe that school runs on a later semester schedule, either way these things are negotiated beforehand and allowed.

Now if he gave up FB for baseball that's a whole different discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/...truck-161156204.html

Shaq Thompson, the nation's #4 football recruit, was also drafted by the Red Sox. Sometimes the scouts are wrong and phenomenal athletic ability alone doesn't cut it.

IMO, baseball is a thinking man's game.

It is a simple example of capitalism. Shaq is himself a product which the Boston Red Sox sought to turn into an asset. He sold himself to the Red Sox for probably 100K or so? Sounds like a good deal to me. Now he can attend college and play the sport he really excels at. There is no shame in not being able to hit a baseball.....Michael Jordon couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and he was arguably the greatest basketball player in history....and not stupid either. I wonder if Shaq can play golf? Now there is a real thinking man's game.

quote:

Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/...truck-161156204.html

Shaq Thompson, the nation's #4 football recruit, was also drafted by the Red Sox. Sometimes the scouts are wrong and phenomenal athletic ability alone doesn't cut it.

IMO, baseball is a thinking man's game.

30 AB's in complex minor league baseball should tell us absolutely nothing. It is such a small sample size in the bigger picture of Milb.
Little doubt the Red Sox will work on every aspect of the swing as time passes. It is equally possible the Sox already started those adjustments, in game situations and that is why he is struggling so much.
The bigger issue with Thompson, baseball, and adjustments, in my view, is he likely has a contract which will allow him to leave for football at UW in just a few weeks.

.

"Michael Jordon couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and he was arguably the greatest basketball player in history."

In his defense the barn he was trying to hit wasn't very big...



7.5" long X 5.5" wide X 5.75 high...and with a gambrel roof! Forget about it!



.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

quote:

Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/...truck-161156204.html

Shaq Thompson, the nation's #4 football recruit, was also drafted by the Red Sox. Sometimes the scouts are wrong and phenomenal athletic ability alone doesn't cut it.

IMO, baseball is a thinking man's game.

30 AB's in complex minor league baseball should tell us absolutely nothing. It is such a small sample size in the bigger picture of Milb.
Little doubt the Red Sox will work on every aspect of the swing as time passes. It is equally possible the Sox already started those adjustments, in game situations and that is why he is struggling so much.
The bigger issue with Thompson, baseball, and adjustments, in my view, is he likely has a contract which will allow him to leave for football at UW in just a few weeks.

Thank you infielddad. I am not sure that most people realize what exactly goes on in milb and the purpose of it. Even for those that write about it. They expect the player to get out there and be good, it doesn't always happen that way and that is why he is at entry level.

Sometimes you will see even a first rounder (any position) struggle not realizing that they are making changes.

This is what milb is all about.

I agree, it is a shame that this is a conversation. The kid is doing his best. I always give things the litmus test of how would I feel if it were my kid people were talking about. I would feel terrible as I would know my kid was already feeling worse then terrible and to have adults jump on would certainly make me crazy.

Let this thread die, it shouldn't have been written in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by calisportsfan:
I agree, it is a shame that this is a conversation. The kid is doing his best. I always give things the litmus test of how would I feel if it were my kid people were talking about. I would feel terrible as I would know my kid was already feeling worse then terrible and to have adults jump on would certainly make me crazy.

Let this thread die, it shouldn't have been written in the first place.

Personally, I think the thread is fine, in the right context. As 3Bagger posted, this is about professional baseball and a professional player who is adjusting. I think it can also be informative on this site because it can illustrate the difficulty with the transition to Milb, and all that might be involved, on and off the field. For a professional athlete, this article should mean absolutely nothing. In a sense, the Red Sox could care less about the results of those 30 or so AB's. What matters is what they are seeing to change or how changes/adjustments already being taught are being performed.
I imagine the reason the article was written in the first place is Thompson is such a highly visible athlete, but mostly for football, where his very late change on his NLI from Cal to UW, to follow a coach who made a similar change, created a lot of message board and news chatter.

This guy is now 0-37 with 36 strikeouts, the worst hitting performance in the long history of baseball. Yeah TPM, that's REAL player in your book. So no, TPM, he isn't a baseball player, no matter what you say in your usual condenscending way. If you don't like my harshness well that's just tough. It's a tough game as you had reminded us so many times on this site.

And yes there are some of us who do know how hard it is for a first year player in the utter lowest levels of baseball and there are even some of us who also know how hard it would be as terrible as this guy is. He is a professional player or really a wanna be who took nearly $100,000 dollars to play a game for which he is utterly unprepared and undeserving. So I don't care if he's 18, 19 or whatever--you take money for something that you never gave any real effort at, then criticism is going to be there. Some kid that is a REAL baseball player lost a chance to be drafted and everyone else in the Red Sox draft was pushed back and got less money because Cherington happens to be an idiot and this guy won't even make the commitment to quite football. Well, I think he will soon be able to devote himself totally to the game he can play. He even admitted he never dreamed they would use a pick so high on him.

I get somewhat peeved that you're all over me about my opinion of this guy when you make me cringe when you get your condenscending attitude with new members of this site or frankly anyone who happens to disagree with you. This is not the first time you've done this with me and I get the impression you think there is some kind of pecking order depending on where our sons are in the baseball world.

Something about grown men talking smack about teen boys just doesn't cut it for me.

So much stuff in life is subjective and open to interpretation. For example, I absolutely disagree with TPM's statement:

I also don't get the remark about drafting a REAL baseball player. FWIW, he IS a REAL baseball player, he is getting paid to play. He wasn't a REAL baseball player as an amatuer, or are others at that level

My feeling is that being a ballplayer is about ATTITUDE. A REAL baseball player will do whatever his team needs him to do in order to win. (that is safe and ethical) If they neeed you in left but you play third you'll go to left with no hesitation. You don't take off plays, know the game, always trying to learn and help the team. I don't think it's about how great you are or what level you are at in the game. Example: only worried about your stats, someone who bunts for a base hit when up 8-0 in the 7th in a baseball game, wants out when down. I think a 13 year old can be a real ballplayer, and there are probably some pros who aren't. It doesn't sound like Thompson is a real baseball player at this point even though he did sign a MiLB contract. Maybe he will become one, maybe he won't. But he is REAL smart if he got any type of bonus, an opportunity to see if he could make the adjustment to BB, and still get to attend UW on a football scholarship. Some criticism comes with the territory but I bet he can handle it.

As ballplayers move up the pecking order in BB obviously the definition and specific duties of a ballplayer changes so I know what TPM was alluding to and I complletely understand her point. We are just coming from different perspectives, probably based on where our son's are in the game, and I think we both make good points. Threebagger makes the point that Thompson's draftting took an opportunity away from a REAL ballplayer. He's right and I had not really thought of that. But the RED SOX thought the chance to work with this athlete to develop a skillset was worth the risk. It's their money, he's an athlete and I have learned "never say never," so I understand that as well. It isn't nepotism and he has a skill, so this is a much better situation than some. Drafting a less than mediocre NAME with no chance to make it is more disturbing, as it truly takes a spot from someone more deserving.

You can find examples of prospects all over the GCL, NYP and SAL that have been huge disappointments, albeit not quite as spectacular as Thompson's. A RHP drafted by the Pittsburgh Pirates in the 2nd round comes to mind. In his first year ERA 6.58, IP 26, BB 29, BB/9 10.04. In his 2nd year ERA 54.00, IP .2, BB 8, BB/9 108. He's trying to convert to a position player....Ave .179, AB 78, H 14, SO 28. This is a guy that signed for 2.25 million.

Now here is a REAL baseball player whose father was a scout and the coach of his high school team, who threw 143 pitches in a complete game state regional final. He was known to touch 98-99 mph. His slider was ranked #1 in the Pirates whole organization. A stud, period. He may still pan out as a hitter but what was a bigger draft error.....him or Johnson?

The first player I thought of was Michael Jordan too!

This young man is is a REAL baseball player, he's just not a real GOOD baseball player. Maybe he needs glasses or some of Aroid's eye drops, but I'm sure we can agree he is doing his best. imo, a perfect example of scouts looking at body/athleticism and not looking at skills. Not the kid's fault, it's the adults who picked him.

as an aside, I read recently about the kid who was traded for bats. Remember him? He died from an overdose - the only thing identifying him was the tattoo over his tj scar. He was constantly called "bats" and mocked for the trade. The mlb took better care of the bats than they did of him.

Pro sports will chew you up and spit you out. Not only do the young players have to have the skills, they have to have the mental fortitude.

I agree, the writer had no business publicizing this information.

Most recent update to this story.

http://deadspin.com/5927114/sh...-0+for+37-with-36-ks

For the love of the game start recruting talent and not athleticism. I have yet to be excited about seeing a player because he is athletic. I want to see someone who can flat out play the game.

Let me get this straight...people are upset at him for getting drafted out of high school and agreeing to a contract with the Red Sox that pays him a good signing bonus and lets him play college football at the same time.

How on earth is any of this his fault?

Yes, his performance is awful. But I'm not following the believe that this should be a reflection of his decision or how he made the process unfair. If you want to question the Red Sox front office for their decision in drafting him then that's fine. But Shaq Thompson has done nothing wrong.

I agree with what fanofgame said earlier in the thread...speed/athleticism is a tool. One out of five, but players are drafted on one outstanding tool every year. Just like they are drafted for only power or pitch speed.

So I consider him a real baseball player who might not have the tool of hitting for average. Maybe if this player washes out it will take more than one tool to be drafted by the Red Sox in the future.

I've got to wonder if something is going on here. The talent level is pretty mixed there and the umpires have to have pretty wide strike zones but no talented athlete who is getting a lot of BP and is making the effort is going to strike out that often against that level of pitching.

Please note that he "starred" for the baseball team. A check of MaxPreps may show otherwise but I'm wondering what is going on.

Checked MaxPreps and he hit .305 in a fairly good league. Even if a fair amount of those were leg hits that's a good enough average to show that he can make contact in a Rookie League more often than he has.

I agree that most times people are a lot harder on MiL players than is necessary, but with such a lousy success/failure ratio, its hard to make sense of a philosophy and practice that gives more opportunity for what MIGHT be than for what’s already been demonstrated.

quote:

Originally posted by J H:
Let me get this straight...people are upset at him for getting drafted out of high school and agreeing to a contract with the Red Sox that pays him a good signing bonus and lets him play college football at the same time.

How on earth is any of this his fault?

Yes, his performance is awful. But I'm not following the believe that this should be a reflection of his decision or how he made the process unfair. If you want to question the Red Sox front office for their decision in drafting him then that's fine. But Shaq Thompson has done nothing wrong.

I agree. If you want to be mad at anyone, be it the organization that "took away a spot from another player". It appears to me that they didn't want another player or they would have drafted him, right?
What determines who is a REAL baseball player and who is not is based upon ones perception, interpretations can be different.
The GCL and AZL have many player that are just entering pro ball and might be considered struggling to many here. I noticed where a THIRD year COLLEGE player has 75 AB and has 8 hits. What's up with that, he must not be a REAL player. The way I see it, this is one month into professional ball, which is NOT HS or COLLEGE ball, there is a difference.
55mom that is a very sad story about the player that was traded for bats. People do NOT realize how this game can chew you up and spit you out. I get a kick out of those who post all over the internet bashing players because of their lack of performance, most of them never played a game in their life on any level above LL.

Three Bagger,
I responded to your post, which I am entitled to do, just as you did to mine, if you think that it was condescending, that's your opinion. But how can you acuse the player of wanting to be a "wanna be"? Don't all athletes "wanna be" pro players? If it were your son would you tell him to turn it down because he didn't deserve to accept the money?

BTW, can anyone show where he got 100K to sign, I can't find it anywhere.

I find it interesting that a grown man and other adults who dis young players get real bent out of shape when someone doesn't respond the way they feel they should be (in agreement). FWIW, I also opposed stuff here posted about Harper. I don't care if being a professional makes you fair game, but for those just beginning and adjusting? That's fair?

The pecking order doesn't matter, it's that I just don't agree on dissing on professionals (especially those out of HS) just entering the game and struggling or make silly mistakes along the way, if you doing that, calling them out for doing what any other player might have done (go pro) makes you feel better, than so be it.

This game is about having skills AND athleticism. Sometimes a player has skills and lacks the athleticism, sometimes a player has athleticism and lacks certain skills, sometime they have both. That's just the way it is and that is the way it will always be.

Teams will draft who they want, spend their money the way and when they want and they don't care what we think should be what they should do. Get over it people!

For those who write negative stuff on struggling pros who have been in the game just about one month, you will usually find them to be the "wanna be" sports writers they will never be.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
I've got to wonder if something is going on here. The talent level is pretty mixed there and the umpires have to have pretty wide strike zones but no talented athlete who is getting a lot of BP and is making the effort is going to strike out that often against that level of pitching.

Please note that he "starred" for the baseball team. A check of MaxPreps may show otherwise but I'm wondering what is going on.

Checked MaxPreps and he hit .305 in a fairly good league. Even if a fair amount of those were leg hits that's a good enough average to show that he can make contact in a Rookie League more often than he has.

Very good perception, maybe there is a issue, maybe was hurt coming into proball, maybe he CAN'T see the ball, maybe he is 3000 miles away from home and not feeling good about himself at his moment.

Just too early to really come to any negative conclusion.

I'm with TPM on this. Absolutely no reason to jump on a kid for doing what any of our kids would have done if you are honest with yourself. Adults really have no business drawing attention to the failure of a kid. Yes a kid, no matter the pay check he is still figuring this world out and in a different phase of his life. Had I ever been that athletically successful in high school, I imagine failure would be even harder since I hadn't encountered it before.

I hope he goes 3 for 3 then heads off to the football field and has a great college experience. Knowing the school he comes out of, my guess is that any signing money he got was well needed for college.

Now if you were to tell me a story about a kid with all that ability squandering it away on drugs or drinking I would have a whole different opinion. This kid has done nothing wrong.

So let me see if I got this straight. Sox take a flyer to see if they can uncover another Dione Sanders or Bo Jackson for $100K in a system with 150 or so players most of which will never play in the majors and folks are tripping over it. Even if the guy flames out so what? The entire structure of MLB is based on projectability. Baseball needs more athletism becasue it makes the game better. Baseball does not have elite athletism compared to the NFL or NBA and has not for 30-40 years since the rise of both sports in the 60's and 70's.

Given Michael Jordan was 31 years old when he tried baseball his statistics were not ridicously bad. One has to wonder if he had focused on baseball if he wouldn't have done much better and probably at least as good as players on that team today. I got his numbers compared to a couple of members of the regular starting lineup of this years Birmingham Barons. Not as awful as you'd think.

Year Age Tm Lg Lev Aff G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
1994 31 Birmingham SOUL AA CHW 127 497 436 46 88 17 1 3 51 30 18 51 114 .202 .289 .266 .556 116 4 4 3 3 0
2012 23 74 321 276 49 62 15 1 13 43 4 2 43 55 .225 .330 .428 .758 118 3 1 0 1 1
2012 26 61 232 208 27 52 16 2 2 24 4 3 18 47 . 250 .310 .375 .685 78 3 1 3 2 0

I'm on the camp that the org is fishing around, trying to discover a hidden star. Given all this big money in free agency trying to get an established big star, it is not a bad bet spending $100k to test out a potential big star. Give him a few years and if it does not work out, so what. There are hundreds of thousand that went thru the revolving door that do not make it to the major and he won't be the last one.

I realize I'm being very cynical and I hope I'm way off base but what I'm wondering is if perhaps this player is trying to get his bonus money and run.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
I realize I'm being very cynical and I hope I'm way off base but what I'm wondering is if perhaps this player is trying to get his bonus money and run.

As far as I can remember, there is a stipulation in the milb contract about returning bonus under certain situations (prior injury maybe and quitting before contract expires?). I don't think a player can actually retire until after his milb contract ends without permission. The team or the one that inherits you owns you, but can release any player at any time. That would be where you could keep your bonus.

Again I ask, does anyone have any proof of what he actually signed for?
Maybe he signed for nothing, but gives up football and returns for spring training he gets a bonus (addnedums in his contract). This could just be one of those "try it out" situations and in that case he did nothing wrong to accept. I am not thinking that the Red Sox would throw 100K out the window.
Bottom line is that we really don't know what the agreement actually was, do we?

quote:

I've got to wonder if something is going on here. The talent level is pretty mixed there and the umpires have to have pretty wide strike zones but no talented athlete who is getting a lot of BP and is making the effort is going to strike out that often against that level of pitching

My son is playing in the GCL and it is very mixed.You have senior signs from college and seniors out of HS.Many dominican prospects coming from the summer leagues.Most juniors drafted go to short A.You have first rounders who are rehabbing.Its a real mixed level of experience and abilities.The strike zone is really liberal according to my son,and you have to make an adjustment.If you look at strikeouts in general they are high in this league.Remember the umpires are rookies learning as well.Making an adjustment and fouling off borderline pitches is a skill that is aquired from an experienced hitter.

The other thing to consider is the wood bat.This young man may have not had a lot of at bats with wood.Hitting with wood is harder especially if you have never done it.

As far as being upset with the organizations for drafting toolsy players,they always do.You cant teach athleticism,they draft gifted athletes throughout the draft while many Good baseball players are not drafted.

Athletic and quick fast players are coveted.Most teams believe they can teach an athletic players the skills.This is nothing new.

Baseball is hard,hitting is hard,its tough to try and pick it up as an of season sport.

With that said hey who would turn down money to try and play if powers to be want to pay you.

Ive seen stuff written about players like they are cattle for sale.Its the business.I read once where a professional player said "never read your press,good or bad". Its tough stuff.

Baseball is a business.I heard from a scout once that 200 at bats before someone can really evaluate you as a hitter. I think it takes that many at bats to know what you have in a hitter.