Students at High Academic School's

RJM posted:

College used to be about the exchange of ideas, debate and critical thinking. Now it's about safe spaces, trigger remarks, teddy bears, coloring books and shouting down anyone with less than liberal ideaology.

This is true to roughly the same degree that there's a war on Christmas or that the threat of Sharia law is leading to the persecution of Christians in the US.

There are schools of all stripes, political-culture wise. While I think you could probably make the case that more of the highest academic schools have a deserved reputation as being more liberal politically, that doesn't happen in a vacuum.

I have read this post with much interest and want to now add some comments...as a reference, son is now in his sophomore year at a (what they call) elite academic D1 school...

1- on the topic of professors available to talk...Son has had professors available any time to talk and exchange ideas and ask questions; it is an open invitation if needed. In fact during freshman year, many professors ate lunch with students in the freshman cafeteria. Son talked to them when needed, but they were 'always' available.

2-on the topic of getting to school that otherwise...Let us don't forget that all in this forum have kids that are also athletes. And that onto itself means that they are students that have to spend many hours refining their sport. Now if a son or daughter excels in an athletic sport and is a great student, should they be penalized or criticized because of it if the sport helps them into a school? When my son applied to his school, there were over 37K applications, to a school that accepts 2000 and really takes 1600+ (bc of housing) and if his efforts put through 14 years of athletics gives him an additional 'hook', well, I think he's earned  it. High academic schools  as mentioned by fenway and goosegg, will not admit kids that do not pass the admission hurdle. In addition to being good baseball players, the have to be good students. It is just hard as hell to get into these schools period. In my son's year, there were like over 4k valedictorians and many many hundreds of perfect SAT scores. But not many can hit a 90+ baseball coming at them. As far as I am concern, our kids have earned the hook. if a kid does not have the grades, he will not get in. Also, don't forget that coaches want to win and get good players.

3- on the topic about pressure on grades ... Kids that get accepted to these schools have the chops to succeed in an academic environment; it just happens that they are also ball players. Freshman year they are a little confused because of D1 baseball, the new school environment and "all" the time they have to dedicate to school work and baseball-it is overwhelming for them at the beginning but these kids are smart enough to adjust. My son did very well his freshman year and is doing ok with 3 A's and 1 B+ this semester. But if you ask him, he will tell you that it is a "lot" of work. These kids want to excel in the field and in the classroom, that is in their DNA.

4- on the topic of political correctness... Who cares!...These kids are with thousands of others that have different beliefs, whether political, religious or other. The important thing is that they learn to coexist with others. One thing that I learn from my father is that you never argue about three things, one is religion, two is politics, and three is with the other person that wants to pay for dinner (let them pay if it makes them happy).  These kids are in an environment that is dictated by their surroundings and by what some students are attracted to; some people are vegan, some are vegetarian, liberals or conservatives, and on and on. They key is to understand and respect everybody's opinion and beliefs, including politics. So let's don't worry about the politics in the school, but try to understand everybody's point of view, and in our case, play baseball and get better at it.

My son has his own thinking, and I admire that. Most colleges now a days are very liberal in general, that's just how most students are now, and they may or may not change. I can tell you this, my son has grown intellectually so much since he was a freshman at his school and I am sure that it is because of his teachers, student friends and teammates. It makes me very proud when I converse with him and exchange ideas. And that is what we should look forward to. 

As it was said I believe by goosegg,if a parent a kid that has a chance to get into an elite academic school and play ball and doesn't do it because of political correctness crap, the one loosing will be the kid. 

This site gets better and better every day.  

Night before my son rec'd offer from his high academic I could not sleep.  I had a feeling they were going to offer him the next day and I tossed and turned all night thinking why am I considering sending my kid to one of these places where ideologically I know he is going to be at odds with the vast majority of professors and probably most of his fellow students???   I was really questioning the "fit" factor.  Cold sweat panic I was.

Son did receive offer next day.  I talked with son about what he was heading into as far as the predominantly liberal atmosphere of the school.  He was fine with it.   24-hours later he accepted.   

Better late than never, I PM'd Bucsfan with my concern.   Yes this was after son had already committed.  He talked me down off ledge.    Said a lot of same great points many here are saying .  His thought that stuck with me was why not dive into an atmosphere like that and mix it up?   "Iron sharpens iron.  Why live in an echo chamber?"

"Iron sharpens iron."  - Bucsfan

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

This site gets better and better every day.  

Night before my son rec'd offer from his high academic I could not sleep.  I had a feeling they were going to offer him the next day and I tossed and turned all night thinking why am I considering sending my kid to one of these places where ideologically I know he is going to be at odds with the vast majority of professors and probably most of his fellow students???   I was really questioning the "fit" factor.  Cold sweat panic I was.

Son did receive offer next day.  I talked with son about what he was heading into as far as the predominantly liberal atmosphere of the school.  He was fine with it.   24-hours later he accepted.   

Better late than never, I PM'd Bucsfan with my concern.   Yes this was after son had already committed.  He talked me down off ledge.    Said a lot of same great points many here are saying .  His thought that stuck with me was why not dive into an atmosphere like that and mix it up?   "Steel sharpens steel."

"Steel sharpens steel."  - Bucsfan

 

#1 Assistant Coach makes another good point here about the overall college experience.

My son grew up in Los Angeles  ( in a bitchy liberal Democrat house ) and now attends and plays at a high academic D1 in the south. A small distinguished private school. This is a very conservative learning institution!

He loves it. It's turning into a eventful life experience. One that extends beyond the field.

Also, academically it's HARD. Trying to navigate baseball and the classroom is brutal. But he's grinding away.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

3 fantastic points....

Fourbases - "on the topic of Political Correctness - who cares".... love it and agree with you.  IMHO the monicker "PC" is a fad.  It will run its course like everything else in our society.  PC and "fit" are not the same.  If you are a student/athlete at one of these schools you learn your team and academics are the most important things.  Coaches and Professors make sure of it.  You learn to treat others the way you want to be treated.

#1AsstCoach - Bucsfan is 100% correct IMHO...."Steel does sharpen steel".  I've seen it happen.  Like many parents, I had concerns (that I kept to myself) when my oldest son went off to college.  While we're at it, I had concerns when my middle son (engineering major) left for college 4 years ago, too.  Both far exceeded my expectations, and both had job offers early their senior year in college.  Their college & work experiences helped form their own opinions on various topics that we (sometimes) discuss at the dinner table.  Over Thanksgiving, we had a huge discussion about the role of the NRA, and the first and second amendments.  This conversation would have never happened years ago.  They are clear on their facts and defend their positions well.   We don't entirely agree, but that is the best part!

Gooseggs' point about if a parent/recruit has a unique opportunity to get a coaches support into a high academic school and play ball and doesn't do it because of perceived PC issues, the one loosing will be the recruit.  100% agree. 

One of the risks of quoting someone, is one must make sure it's correct!  I misquoted Bucsfan in my post above.

I just looked up his exact quote to me in the PM from a few months ago.   Again, this was his advise to me on sending my kid off to a school where most of the profs and many classmates may not share is beliefs:

"Iron sharpens iron.  Why live in an echo chamber?"

-Bucsfan

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

One of the risks of quoting someone, is one must make sure it's correct!  I misquoted Bucsfan in my post above.

I just looked up his exact quote to me in the PM from a few months ago.   Again, this was his advise to me on sending my kid off to a school where most of the profs and many classmates may not share is beliefs:

"Iron sharpens iron.  Why live in an echo chamber?"

-Bucsfan

Actually steel and iron don't shArpen one another.  They serve to realign a blade after use.  You have to remove metal to sharpen.  Neither metals can sharpen the other.

Though it does not invalidate the metaphor, that is technically true.  Steel does not sharpen steel; it hones it.

We shall have to let the author of Proverbs 27 know  about her error.

"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend"

  - King James Bible 

Interesting thread.  Our 2016 most likely falls into the category of using baseball to get into a school that may have been slightly out of reach for him (not an "elite" school but a D3 academic).  I'll reserve the right to wait to comment on how it worked out until after we see his grades from this semester.   

I think all this PC talk has more legs here on HSBBW than it does on campus.  2016 leans more toward the conservative side than his mother or father and from what I've seen online his school seems very liberal leaning.  He's never once mentioned it as being liberal since he's been there.  I asked him if there were protests after the election (we had walk outs here at his former HS) and he had no idea what I was talking about.  I think that from afar these schools seem liberal, for some maybe even radically so, but when you're a freshman doing your regular daily thing, hanging with your friends, practicing, working out, doing your own laundry, etc it's probably not so much different from when you were doing those same things with your high school friends/teammates.  

Actually, harder, more refined iron DOES sharpen iron.  A wiser man, therefore, will sharpen another man.

MKbaseballdad posted:

Interesting thread.  Our 2016 most likely falls into the category of using baseball to get into a school that may have been slightly out of reach for him (not an "elite" school but a D3 academic).  I'll reserve the right to wait to comment on how it worked out until after we see his grades from this semester.   

I think all this PC talk has more legs here on HSBBW than it does on campus.  2016 leans more toward the conservative side than his mother or father and from what I've seen online his school seems very liberal leaning.  He's never once mentioned it as being liberal since he's been there.  I asked him if there were protests after the election (we had walk outs here at his former HS) and he had no idea what I was talking about.  I think that from afar these schools seem liberal, for some maybe even radically so, but when you're a freshman doing your regular daily thing, hanging with your friends, practicing, working out, doing your own laundry, etc it's probably not so much different from when you were doing those same things with your high school friends/teammates.  

Perhaps you're correct.  But I can say that my high school jr is very aware of political correctness and the behaviors of the protesting students.    Being a little more pensive and culturally aware, he often associates with a non-athlete, scholars bowl, art-student, music loving type crowd.  He hears a lot of the alternative views.   Sometimes these folks get on his nerves, but he's nice to them and enjoys talking about things other than one's sneaker collection or who is more popular than whom.  That crowd really annoys him.

The school my son attended, was not an academic stretch, so I cannot speak to that. First year academics were actually a breeze. His school did have study hall and tutoring. He attended one or two, but than stooped. He said he spent more time helping others than getting his work done. 

The school he attended is very liberal, and regularly host speakers such as Michelle Obama. He was a bit liberal leaning when he accepted. Many altruistic young men can be. 

Me and my social worker wife are actually pretty conservative. I come from strong Democratic, Pro-Union stock. My grandfather s both worked in manufacturing, My Dad's father for Ford, and my Mom's father for General tire. My parents gave me the freedom to make my own decisions, and I chose a different political philosophy than my parents. It is the least I can do for my son's.

To my surprise my son came out of college, much more conservative than when he went in. I would not call either of us Republican. But we share many of the same views. So this was never a concern. My Father's view are much different than mine but we do not love each other any less. And we have much respect for each other. 

I tried to raise him to think for himself, and was the best example my flawed self could be. The rest was up to him. He has done well so far.

This thread has definitely morphed. My older son is currently a sophomore at a liberal Midwest academic school.  He tells us that although the school is definitely liberal it is no more so than our local high school so not much different. The baseball team leans more to the right but is represented by both sides and the middle. It is not an issue for the team. They all have to work together to be the best team that they can be and the have enough mutual respect for each other and enough other things in common, like the game, that the political and philosophical differences are less important.  just as in the military, in order to accomplish your mission you have to stand side by side or back to back with some one with whom you may hold different political, religious personal beliefs etc. Your life may depend on that person with whom you disagree with on issues. 

As far as baseball helping him get in he likely would have gotten in based upon his grades and other non sport activities but baseball didnt hurt. Not sure how many slots or any baseball is given but they did mention a baseball liaison at one time.  In 3 academic schools that he didn't get in (but could have played d3 not d1) 1 did not give sports any more credence than any other extra curricular  and 2 reserved some spots for the coaches top prospects however as an outfielder  he was told that he was not their top priory at the time.  He went RD and not ED when he learned that, thus decreasing his chances of acceptance. 

If there was one thing academically that may have held him back it was his SAT. He took it fall/winter of his Jr year and was told that  would be good enough for those schools showing interest at the time, however in hindsight he could have studied and prepared more to get 100 or so more points to put him in the elite of the elite. which may have helped when he went RD.  He was not looking at top academic d 3 schools until the fall of his senior year. He could also have taken the ACT just to see if he could do better.  

My son played football at a prestigious academic institution. It was very liberal. He was known in his private high school as a smart kid who was a very good football player but when he came to college they randomly kept assuming he was a dumb jock who got into the school just becasue he could play a sport. This unfair assumption plagued and upset him. Nevertheless, he had a great experience and learned much more about life than I had hoped. In fact, my 2018 is now following in his footsteps and would love to play at a high academic college. Not for everyone but so diverse and filled with intellectuals that the exchange of ideas is a life experience that should not be understated. God bless diversity......Different doesnt always mean bad or good, most often it just means different.

NXT LVL,

You bring up a great point.  My son has also commented on that "slight" from other students about being an athlete and their perception that he didn't belong at a high academic school or that he got preferential treatment.  However, I don't think it lasted long.  By sophomore year, he claims 33-40% of his classmates were no longer accepted in his major within the University.  They had to find other fields of study.  

Frankly his biggest "complaint" was enough study time....his non-athlete counterparts had a lot more opportunity time to study where he did not.  Possibly, he figured out how to study more efficiently...heck I don't know.  However, everything in his major was graded on a curve so study time was incredibly important to him.  I don't know how he learned the material, but he did.  In doing so, I think his classmates changed their outlook from "dumb jock" to someone who can hold their own.   

BTW...there is no doubt diversity was a great college experience for him especially in STEM.  He works for an organization that is incredibly diverse. 

You are soooo right, Fenway!!

Study time is ENORMOUS. IT makes the entire academic experience much different for athletes vs student-athletes. You want to be the best in your space so you have to give time for practicing and training. You want to do the best you can in your chosen field of study , so you have to give and take time for studying. Tough balance in a challenging academic structured school. I guess that is why the really good schools dont tend to have the best athletic programs, except for a couple of schools who seem to have figured it out.

My sons school was understanding when he had finals and gave the team more time to study and less sport practice time. He had friends who played in bowl games for schools who were not as understanding. 

Can someone define "high academic"?  Of  course I'd assume that means an Ivy, Stanford but does that term include most DI to DIII schools that have high academic standards and require high test scores to get in or is there something more to it.  

Funny - being relatively liberal I had the same yet opposite issues.  I was concerned about my kids attending a more conservative school that taught a world view I did not agree with.  Leave it to my wife to introduce sanity to me when she asked "why would you protect your kids from being exposed to viewpoints different than your own?"  Her point was that I should have confidence in how I raised my kids and exposure to other view points will only help them.  She wins.

GoBlue33.............your call.

I've read on here before a working definition that I think is valid:  the higher the academic quality, the smaller the differential in the admissions criteria for a regular student vs an impact athlete.  

You might consider one school "high academic" but there are athletes accepted whose scores and transcripts would not stand a chance as a regular student applicant.  

Another might consider a school "high academic" because the scores and transcripts of a regular applicant vs that of an athlete applicant, are nearly identical in quality and proficiency.  

Even though my son is not on the baseball team he had the option to play Club baseball at the AF academy. What he has told me is that he has absolutely no time to even attend club baseball practices. He is a Mechanical Engineering major and the time commitment to studying is tremendous along with the other training stuff academy kids have to deal with. Maybe it gets easier after the first year don't know.   

standballdad posted:

Even though my son is not on the baseball team he had the option to play Club baseball at the AF academy. What he has told me is that he has absolutely no time to even attend club baseball practices. He is a Mechanical Engineering major and the time commitment to studying is tremendous along with the other training stuff academy kids have to deal with. Maybe it gets easier after the first year don't know.   

It gets easier.  The freshman year at any service academy is brutal... around spring break second semester freshman year, after "Hell Week", is when the load will lighten, the stress load that is.  After freshman year a lot of hassles are eliminated and as a student you're able to allocate your time more efficiently.  

He should look into a few clubs that authorize freshman, in your case "Doolies", to get off campus legitimately.   Such as ski club, choir, navigation club... a lot of options.

Tell him to hang in there, quality of life improves.

standballdad posted:

Even though my son is not on the baseball team he had the option to play Club baseball at the AF academy. What he has told me is that he has absolutely no time to even attend club baseball practices. He is a Mechanical Engineering major and the time commitment to studying is tremendous along with the other training stuff academy kids have to deal with. Maybe it gets easier after the first year don't know.   

standballdad - I would not count on it getting easier.  In fact both my son's (mech engs from different schools) told me mech eng gets much harder sophomore and junior years.  However, if your son is passionate about club baseball and doing well in his classes possibly he could give it a shot to see how it goes.  Good luck!

fenwaysouth posted:

standballdad posted:

Even though my son is not on the baseball team he had the option to play Club baseball at the AF academy. What he has told me is that he has absolutely no time to even attend club baseball practices. He is a Mechanical Engineering major and the time commitment to studying is tremendous along with the other training stuff academy kids have to deal with. Maybe it gets easier after the first year don't know.   

standballdad - I would not count on it getting easier.  In fact both my son's (mech engs from different schools) told me mech eng gets much harder sophomore and junior years.  However, if your son is passionate about club baseball and doing well in his classes possibly he could give it a shot to see how it goes.  Good luck!

From the challenges of being in a difficult major I agree.  But the associated stresses with being a first year student at a service academy will go away, this will allow the student to breathe and focus more as he's exposed to more of his "major" classes.

EDIT: I was an Aerospace Engineering major 

Gov posted:

standballdad posted:

Even though my son is not on the baseball team he had the option to play Club baseball at the AF academy. What he has told me is that he has absolutely no time to even attend club baseball practices. He is a Mechanical Engineering major and the time commitment to studying is tremendous along with the other training stuff academy kids have to deal with. Maybe it gets easier after the first year don't know.   

It gets easier.  The freshman year at any service academy is brutal... around spring break second semester freshman year, after "Hell Week", is when the load will lighten, the stress load that is.  After freshman year a lot of hassles are eliminated and as a student you're able to allocate your time more efficiently.  

He should look into a few clubs that authorize freshman, in your case "Doolies", to get off campus legitimately.   Such as ski club, choir, navigation club... a lot of options.

Tell him to hang in there, quality of life improves.

Thanks Gov he has joined the Ski club and with the upcoming snow and all the new ski gear we bought him for Christmas he will be set. I have heard that after Christmas break they refer to it as the dark days until March. I think he will be fine.   

fenwaysouth posted:

standballdad posted:

Even though my son is not on the baseball team he had the option to play Club baseball at the AF academy. What he has told me is that he has absolutely no time to even attend club baseball practices. He is a Mechanical Engineering major and the time commitment to studying is tremendous along with the other training stuff academy kids have to deal with. Maybe it gets easier after the first year don't know.   

standballdad - I would not count on it getting easier.  In fact both my son's (mech engs from different schools) told me mech eng gets much harder sophomore and junior years.  However, if your son is passionate about club baseball and doing well in his classes possibly he could give it a shot to see how it goes.  Good luck!

He did go out for the first few club practices before his classes got under way. He said the level of play was not all that great but that he would just go out and enjoy. He just needs to find the time. 

Goblue33 posted:

Can someone define "high academic"?  Of  course I'd assume that means an Ivy, Stanford but does that term include most DI to DIII schools that have high academic standards and require high test scores to get in or is there something more to it.  

I think the term "high academic" is used loosely, but it refers to colleges with low acceptance rate's. Ivy's, Stanford, Amherst, have single digit acceptance rates vs just having "high academic standards". Academic reputations and rankings produces high demand for very low supply of admission spots.

Relative to baseball:  ND and Duke are top academic schools with low acceptance rates, but their athletic coaches have more latitude to support players through admissions.  Duke Coach can take a player with a 26 ACT (Minimum per HC Pollard), whereas an Ivy can't, West Point can't, Amherst can't.  (A team in the ACC will have difficulty competing if they held Ivy admission standard's for their players.  (Can't vs Won't could be debatable)

Good question, but related to both high academic standard and degree of difficulty of gaining admission.

I've always viewed it by normal student admissions standards (a lower percentage), the devotion that the students give to academic advancement/achievement.  And, mean people who would cut your throat for a better grade.

Ripken Fan posted:

I'll conclude with a text I received from son, during the second week of class this semester:

"Today my International Challenges professor blamed climate change for the Rise of Al Qaeda..so that's that."

He's not wrong.

fenwaysouth posted:

standballdad posted:

Even though my son is not on the baseball team he had the option to play Club baseball at the AF academy. What he has told me is that he has absolutely no time to even attend club baseball practices. He is a Mechanical Engineering major and the time commitment to studying is tremendous along with the other training stuff academy kids have to deal with. Maybe it gets easier after the first year don't know.   

standballdad - I would not count on it getting easier.  In fact both my son's (mech engs from different schools) told me mech eng gets much harder sophomore and junior years.  However, if your son is passionate about club baseball and doing well in his classes possibly he could give it a shot to see how it goes.  Good luck!

That's pretty consistent with what mine told me, albeit not at an Ivy.  Mine once told me, "Dad, I wouldn't have time to get all of this crap (ME) done even if I wasn't playing baseball."  I'm sure that was a bit of an exaggeration, but it gets the point across that ME is a demanding major.  

Matt13 posted:

Ripken Fan posted:

I'll conclude with a text I received from son, during the second week of class this semester:

"Today my International Challenges professor blamed climate change for the Rise of Al Qaeda..so that's that."

He's not wrong.

FWIW....So this statement (above) just reminded me of a quote one of my freshmen history professors made in the first week of college nearly 35+ years ago.  He also taught at a nearby Ivy and clearly had some interesting ideas.  He hosted some of the best & outrageous off-campus parties I ever went to.  I remember his initial statement to the class like it was yesterday.  Frankly, the most shocking part was that I was awake AND remember it.

"The Bible was written by a bunch of bear-assed Jews, hallucinating in the desert".  So, after that statement, he defended it and sighted examples.  I was blown away.  What does a first-week freshmen say to that.

So that quote has stuck with me for a while.  It has not swayed me one bit on my views of religion, or history but did set in motion the idea that there are some people out there with much different outlooks on history & life and some of these people are in a position of power....they can give me an A or fail me.  Big wake up call from my quaint suburban high school.    Since this professor was 100% lecture, I had better back up any future statements I make verbally or on paper with cold hard facts.   I took him for other history classes, and I learned a lot.  His teaching style forced you to challenge him, and backup your thoughts.  I'll never forget him.

Fenway, I had a few professors like that as well.  Most folks shied away from them. They were controversial, and, in most cases, tough graders.  But, they made you think.  And 35 years later, I still remember them, and keep in touch with a couple.  The rest have faded into obscurity.    

Somewhat to Fenway's point, you need to find out what the political biases of your professors are and learn to answer questions in a politically correct manner so as to receive proper credit for the class. 

For instance, if some knucklehead asserted that climate change caused Al-Qaeda and knowing that was baloney, I would still answer the question the professor's way if it appeared on an exam.  It shouldn't be that way but many of our colleges are taught by left-wing radicals and you better answer things according to their distorted beliefs or suffer the consequences.   

One man's truth is another man's distorted belief, I suppose.  For example if you go into a geology class and  claim that the world is but 6,000 years old, or you take a bio class and claim the evolution is "just a theory" then you better be prepared to back up your claims, or suffer the consequences when it's time for grades.  And yet many would regard those two as examples of beliefs that are not tolerated by PC instructors.

ClevelandDad posted:

Somewhat to Fenway's point, you need to find out what the political biases of your professors are and learn to answer questions in a politically correct manner so as to receive proper credit for the class. 

For instance, if some knucklehead asserted that climate change caused Al-Qaeda and knowing that was baloney, I would still answer the question the professor's way if it appeared on an exam.  It shouldn't be that way but many of our colleges are taught by left-wing radicals and you better answer things according to their distorted beliefs or suffer the consequences.   

Perhaps I was lucky, but I never ran into anybody like that.  Nor did my kids, who, unlike their father, attended school in THIS century.  My daughter the philosophy major will argue with anyone, just for the fun of it.  She had some radical professors, including one avowed anarchist.  But, none of them penalized her for her political opinions, even when they disagreed.  

ClevelandDad posted:

Somewhat to Fenway's point, you need to find out what the political biases of your professors are and learn to answer questions in a politically correct manner so as to receive proper credit for the class. 

For instance, if some knucklehead asserted that climate change caused Al-Qaeda and knowing that was baloney, I would still answer the question the professor's way if it appeared on an exam.  It shouldn't be that way but many of our colleges are taught by left-wing radicals and you better answer things according to their distorted beliefs or suffer the consequences.   

Yeah, no point in challenging your own beliefs, clearly anyone who thinks differently is simply wrong.

It's not exceptionally difficult to connect climate change to global terrorism through the reliance on cheap, abundant middle east oil, but no point in doing any critical thinking in college if one can find an echo chamber to live in and play ball.

ClevelandDad posted:

Somewhat to Fenway's point, you need to find out what the political biases of your professors are and learn to answer questions in a politically correct manner so as to receive proper credit for the class. 

For instance, if some knucklehead asserted that climate change caused Al-Qaeda and knowing that was baloney, I would still answer the question the professor's way if it appeared on an exam.  It shouldn't be that way but many of our colleges are taught by left-wing radicals and you better answer things according to their distorted beliefs or suffer the consequences.   

I've never seen or heard of such a scenario.  My experience is that professors encourage a free exchange of thoughts even if it differs from their own.  They are usually concerned with critical thinking and not echos.  Also,  I don't think that the exams would be based on the instructors opinion.  I would like to think that there would be a heavy dose of facts involved with some analysis.  Maybe I'm wrong but this is what I see.

JAC - you appear to be the smart guy in the room here.  The assertion was that climate change caused Al-Qaeda.  Exactly how does climate change cause terrorism? 

ClevelandDad posted:

Somewhat to Fenway's point, you need to find out what the political biases of your professors are and learn to answer questions in a politically correct manner so as to receive proper credit for the class. 

For instance, if some knucklehead asserted that climate change caused Al-Qaeda and knowing that was baloney, I would still answer the question the professor's way if it appeared on an exam.  It shouldn't be that way but many of our colleges are taught by left-wing radicals and you better answer things according to their distorted beliefs or suffer the consequences.   

Regurgitating a professors views in an attempt to get a good grade may have worked in HS, but absent supporting facts and analysis, would have gotten a gentleman's C (maybe) in kids school. 

It's a professor's job to awaken the inner intellectual; provocative positions are one method of accomplishing the goal.  Don't get upset; get smart, learn the scientific method of proving facts, read critically, reason logically, and do research - that is how a college student should prepare for those provocative assertions. (I wish I had done that during my college years.)

Professors look for clarity of thought, depth of analysis, and strong lucid arguments based upon facts, presented in a literate and clear writing style - at least at kids school.

ClevelandDad posted:

JAC - you appear to be the smart guy in the room here.  The assertion was that climate change caused Al-Qaeda.  Exactly how does climate change cause terrorism? 

Let's make clear that the student reported to his parents what the professor said; there was no context. But, lets assume that the professor said that very statement - and nothing else - then left the room until the following lecture.

Did the prof disable the Internet, close the library, or in any other way foreclose the student from researching that point?  The statement was clearly provocative (otherwise why did it stand out enough to be mentioned to parents), and exactly the type meant to get the curiosity flowing (how, in what way, what proof, who, why, why not).  In this case, the student can accept the statement blindly, regurgitate it in a test, and get nowhere; or can understand the hypothesis (climate change causes Al-Qaida), and go about the analysis.

I think such a question on an examination would provide for some wide ranging responses- all of which could be correct if reasoned and supported and all of which would be wrong if based soley on conclusory statements either supporting or refuting.

It may be the professor's job to awaken the inner intellectual, but that is not the job the many of them are doing.   Ask students in colleges today.  They will tell you that you've better regurgitate their information right back to them.   Try arguing against Mr. "Global warming caused Al-Quaeda" and telling him that hatred for those who are different from you does not arise from a negligible change in temperature, rather it comes from original sin.      Check out your grade.