Summer HS or Travel?

He could do both. HS is during the week, and Travel on the weekend. Good communication between coaches would be key. It can be tough for pitchers if the HS Coach wants to use his innings. I'd consider it thoroughly if your HS Program is not strong.

Haven't yet discussed with any of HS coaches, but I hear that they don't even want travel team shirts or bags at the practices. He did say he would start with sophs and probably be called up to varsity. Travel teams have a good rep in the area. thanks for the info.

Topgun,

I would first check with your HS coach and the best thing to do is just be honest with him. Ask for his advise. Some encourage it and others don't. AS far as wearing Summer clothes or bags, I absolutly agree with that philosophy. All these top 5 tool guys should be HS players first. You wear your HS colors because thats the team your on. Whatever happens after that happens, if you don't have your HS team you don't have much.
It will work out if you and your son want it to.

Thanks, i dont know if he qualifies as a 5 tool player but he does want to play to travel. Looks like both schedules provide decent competition with travel possibly edging here. I checked around the site, is illinois the main forum here?

I think an interesting question in understanding this topic is do our kids even need to play HS ball anymore to play in college? Is playing on a travel team during the summer in front of scouts good enough and will a college take a kid that fits and will thrive in its program even if the kid never played HS ball? Up until recently I would think the answer to that question would have been no but unfortunately I think the answer now is yes. If a kid is a great baseball player and wants to run track in the spring and play competitive summer travel baseball if I'm a college coach it wouldn't effect how I looked at the kid.

On the flip side will a travel program let an excellent baseball player play in their program during the summer if he is running HS track or not playing baseball or doing nothing during the spring?

I'm new on here but I don't understand why you would skip playing on a high school team and just do travel ball? First of all, High School is High school. You would pass up that whole experience? The main idea of travel ball as my children grow up is to learn and become a better player - to make the high school team! My children attend a very large high school and just making the high school team is quite an accomplishment in itself.

The other thing I wonder about is how many HS Programs are there where kids don't have to compete for a position? I'm sure there are kids that are known qualities and perhaps they don't need to worry about it, but......1. There are many good programs where there are enough good players so you have to compete and 2. I know most of the kids we are talking about are very good, but for a kid between his Soph. and Jr. year, don't you think you need to show the coach a thign or two?

Unless you are just planning to be a pitcher it usually doesn't matter as many high school summer leagues are Mon thru Thurs, and then the travel on the weekend. Sometime you can run into conflicts with Thursday or a long travel tournament. I would talk to your high school coach about the situation.

I believe the H.S. summer league is really good for those players coming into their junior year. It allows the coach to evaluate talent and fill holes in the order for the upcoming year. For those who play on elite travel teams or go to showcases, there are times that those individuals will miss some of their summer games. Still, it is the responsibility of the player to communicate his plan with the coach.

as a summer coach the best advice to give is be honest and communication is the key. H.S. summer in illinois is mon/wed/fri. a good summer coach TRIES to stay away from those days. tues/thurs/double sat/sun give you a pretty complete schedule. the only problem is that most of the athletes today are 2 or 3 sport guys, it seems rare to have only a baseball player. some H.S. coaches are backing off on there summer programs and just watching their players with the summer programs. as far as a player not playing hs ball, i feel this is just poor judgement. is the kid too good for his hs team, because that is the image it sends off to me.

Like I've already said playing for both your H.S. and Travel team is very important. The elite travel programs will allow the top players to really get scouted and play elite competition all summer long. This is a key for the top players that have dreams of a D1 or D2 opportunity.

Personally, I think the kids may benefit more from travelball, especially if the competition is better, which it probably will be. Not to say that high school ball isn't important, but the real exposure will come from the high quality travel tournaments, not from local high school games. Especially when it comes to summer ball, which at the high school level is not very strong. All of the good players are playing travel during the summer.

quote:

Originally posted by weenies boi:
as far as a player not playing hs ball, i feel this is just poor judgement. is the kid too good for his hs team, because that is the image it sends off to me.

weenie i see that you are a high school coach too so i can understand where you are coming from. from the standpoint of solely a coach of summer travel team only like deucedoc i think, the question still stands ... would you a allow a great baseball player (say good enuff to be a top 3 position player for you) play on your summer travel team, if he decides to not play HS baseball and run track in the spring instead?

There is no doubt that the level of play in summer HS is up and down. A lot of teams wait until the tourney to get everyone together. I think that the importance of Summer Travel is more in the few true "Elite" tourneys they play in particulary the 15's & 16's. We've been down that road twice with two different kids and you will see some average teams in those age groups. And just like your team may be playing up a year in some tourneys, some younger teams will be playing up in your age group as well. Drive up to Michigan with your 16 year old team and you end up playing the 15 year old Magic or Sparks or Hurricanes, not to mention a few average teams from up there as well. Those are good teams, but if you are looking for stiff competition playing a younger team doesn't help.

You may think your travel team is "Elite" but there are only a few from around here that really are....in most age groups that would read Top Tier, etc. (On a consistent basis) JHO. There are others that are good as well, many only having one team at 17-18. The point is that playing is most important for most of these kids...as much as you can...not a bad idea to do both HS and Travel. I know a lot of families that based upon their Travel experience thought they were locks on the HS Team....didn't always work out that way. Get in front of your coach and play.

There's alot of very good 15 and 16u teams. Top Tier always has very good 18u teams but that's it. They don't have any elite younger teams that I'm aware of. The Midwest has alot of strong 16u teams. I have to agree with Rebel on this one. Elite travel ball is much stronger than H.S. ball. Though I also think it's important to play on both, especially if your a very good baseball player. The more you practice and play the better you'll be.

Grandslam...read your own post on the "playball" Thread.

And just because TT didn't have a strong team in your age group doesn't mean they are only strong at 18. Be glad you aren't in the 17 year old age group.....or the 18's. When your team is 18, tell me then how good TT is.

Fastball, I said that TT has had very good 18u teams. Read my post. I was just mentioning that there's alot of very talented 16u teams in Illinois and across the Midwest.

ok sorry,, but you did say they have good 18's and that's it.

play dog~ as a summer coach i have 30 to 40 players try out for a summer team. one of my former players was P.T., running back for u of i. he was not welcomed on his hs team his senior year, but he was one of the most talented baseball players i had that summer. i just feel that every time you are on the diamond, practise or a game, you take something from it. if you dont than you didnt want to. and most of all these are kids we are talking about, the most important thing is building a bond that could last a lifetime./

(Moderator removed player name)

i would say that players gain more out of the travel programs, especailly those that compete at the higher level and provide the play to get exposure. most summer high school programs are missing key players and is really meant to evaluate those players coming up to varsity the next spring.

Irreguardless of everything that has been
said here, it is important for player and
H.S. coach to be on the same page . Otherwise
it could create a problem for the player.

Summer high school baseball participation is expected by most high school coaches. Some allow the athlete to balance the summer and travel schedule. Most are too busy running their own program to grant exceptions. Many dislike the concept of travel baseball.

On the flip side, many travel coaches are not understanding to the goals of the high school coach and their program. As both programs continue to grow in importance to both parties, the level of communication needs to improve. It is possible that in the near future, the inability to find balance on this issue may change the focus of prep-age baseball.

The one aspect of travel baseball that has not been addressed in this forum is ability to see gauge the talents of the best players not just from Illinois or Indiana, but the best kids from Texas, Florida or California. If someone is setting their goal to be the best player they could be, then they need to compare and improve their skills based against the best not from a locality, region but from the country.

If they continue to play at the collegiate level or for those few who play at the professional level, those players they play in Memphis or Jupiter, may be their competition for a starting postion in the not to distant future.

Isc59
So far , to me anyway , it seems that summer high school ball and travel ball have been able to co-exist with each other in the greater chicago area . Do you see this continuing or on the flipside, do you see things coming to a head in the near future ?

Isc,

well said. Some will have no part and some will work with you. I am glad I am primarily 18 so I dont have to fight it.
Had a couple chicago area HS coaches not in favor of travel go to a tourny last year in the Summer, both had complete different takes on the situation when they left the place. Many would be a bit surprized. I really do not beleive that a good coach can watch a good 18u tourny and look at me and say that its not helping that kid progress.

Sulltiger 24,

Travel baseball as entity in Illinois is quite young. How many travel teams in Illinois existed at the 16 years old level five years ago? A handful at best. How many exist today?It is virtual impossible to make a high school team in 2006 if you are not a travel player. That was not the case only a few years ago. Probable split 60/40 or so.

I believe there is the beginnings of a backlash from high school coaches. I could name specific names but I won't. Is there changes forthcoming at the IHSA level....rumours only? The relationship between travel and high school have never been great due to misunderstanding and arrogance on both sides of the fence.

Can high school exist without travel? Can travel exist without high school? Teams at the 12 year old level have teammates from 1500 miles away. You tell me where this is going?

Send snow to Western New York. The slopes are wet and fast.

Let me clear that up before someone runs with it. Instead of fight it, I should say don't have to deal with it. It puts the kid in a bad spot and I for one tell all my guys, its the HS first, then us.

And people wonder why we are behind the California teams , the Florida teams, the Georgis teams, the Texas teams, partially weather and look at how the youth programs are structured. Light years ahead of this area...Period.

Isc, arrogance and a lot of egos.

deucedoc,

Great point and thanks for the added insight.
The best travel coaches have always held that position. Is that,will that or should that be the case in the future?

Duecedoc,

I think the model exist for successful co-existence of travel and high school. It just depends if the parties care about co-existence.

In fairness, I am sure those who were involved in Babe Ruth and in many cases American Legion ball feel the same way about travel baseball. Many areas have been strip A.L. ball because of travel.

Maybe the fact that there are more and more younger coaches joining the high school ranks each year will help to alleviate the situation . It would seem to me ( i could be wrong ) the younger guys might be a litlle more understanding about the travel thing than the veteran coaches who are more set in their ways and rules and not willing to bend a little for the players benefit .

I'll reiterate what I said another time. I've been through this for a while...both as a Travel Coach (Through age 15) and as a parent for about 14 years. I have seen some excellent Travel Coaches, but more often than not I have seen teams coached by parents (as I of course was) who were between good and bad. I have yet to see a truly excellent Travel Coach who was not a professional at what he did...by that I mean someone who has done it, is doing it and will be doing it just for the sake of coaching...not there because their son is. I believe that most Travel teams under 18 are coached by dads....probably doing a good job...maybe not, but either way not giving a kid anything that they shouldn't have picked up from the HS Coach.

What I'm getting at is that at least where my kids go to HS (Barrington HS) their VARSITY Coaches (Kirby Smith & Jim Hawrysko) were superior to any dad coach I have come across. I coached one game against Prairie Gravel and you have to consider that guy to be a pro whether or not his kid was on the team. Again, there are great coaches in Travel, but how many? A lot of them are coaching 18 year old teams and most of those kids are done with HS anyway. Competition and exposure are good reasons travel will make you better, but I'm not so sure the coaching always is. Good off-season coaches can make a big difference. JMHO

Sulltiger 24,

The younger high school coaches that will rise to the head coach position in the next few years might have an impact on this issue. It is a really great point that may have an effect on this situation.

I thinks the point that you make Fastball, is so true and may be one of the reason that you are seeing more high school teams travel than you have in the past. (Especially freshman...or is a model in the making) I was a travel coach/manager for a fair amount of years and your right, I was not as good as most of the high school coaches or "childless" coaches. Sam Sorce and others are exception.

Isc59
Sam Sorce is an excellent example . That seems to be the consensus among most of the posters here.

Isc , I dont see it getting any better, its been getting progreeivly worse around here for 3 years.

as a young coach,27 yrs., this is my first yr in hs ball and soon to be 6th season as a summer coach. i have no allegiance to any player. no cousins/brothers/family nothing. the closest i have had was a kid who was my batboy when my team won state as 13yr olds. i tell my players all the time high school is first. i think part of it is i do not let my ego get in the way. 9 out of 10 players would rather come to my games, but thats just not the way i coach. i try to work my schedule so as i play the better teams when i know my whole team will be available. the bottom line is put the best interest of the player first and always be flexible especially in the summer. most of all its a kids game and everyone needs to be reminded of that now and then.

The HS experience is important. It is all your friends and classmates. It is your community. Travel Ball is simply a way to continue to imorove. But I think the experience that will haave an impact in most ways in HS ball.

My personal belief is that, it is an honor to play high school baseball. My son attends a large school that has had many talented players tryout, but unfortunately not all who did tryout made the team. The players that did make the team then had the opportunity to earn a spot as a starter. Some parents complained that their son wasn't a part of the top ten. In simple terms, "you reap what you harvest"!

Which brings me to travel baseball. More than half of the high school players probably play on a travel team. Why?? Because they know that inorder for them to be at their best, or to get better, to stay ahead of the rest of the pack, they need and want to play more. Repetitions, whether it comes from practices or games is crucial for players to get better, to get to the next level.

IF, a high school coach is interested in his players, pitchers included, he will understand the value of travel baseball. IF, a travel ball coach is interested in his players, most coaches are, he will respect the high school coaches concerns.

The problem lies with the parents and players, especially the pitchers, that lie to the coaches, it doesn't matter which coach....high school or travel, about innings pitched, pitch counts, and the last time they pitched. Communication is extremely critical by all parties!!!! I defend the high school coach with this issue, and also respect the opportunity that is given to travel ball players by there respective team coaches.

If the proper communication is made by all parties, I really believe that our players could become better overall on the national level. Bold statement, maybe, but I really think it would make a difference. I see it starting to happen. I have thoughts on that for later.

Excellent post, Boomer.

Hoping to schedule our websters meeting in Rosemont for the 18th or 19th of February.