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Take 3: My Discussions With The Coach-Help!

Z ZacksDad100+ posts
So I have thrown some things out there in different threads but I figured I would start a thread because I am looking at how to handle "this".

Zack is a transfer to a "new" school so he is an outsider. He is a freshman and is the starting RF'r so things could be worse lol. But he is frustrated.

Everyone thinks their kid is great and I understand that. Zack runs ok (not the fastest) he has a cannon (although I know there are kids with better arms-though not at his school on the Fresh or JV team) he hits well (once again I know there are kids that hit better-he is hitting about .480 after last night-which is 2nd on the team) but from an OF instinct, judging fly balls, running the right line to the ball I would venture to say he would be one of best in the US-he is a real treat to watch-and there is noone even close at our school. Zack is 6'2" and 180lbs.

So it's getting to be about that time where kids are getting "called up" and Zack is getting overlooked. The OF'r they called up is mediocre at best-they are comparable hitters-but the OF play is apple and oranges. The other things-he walks to his position, doesn't tuck his jersey in, etc. By the coaches (all of them) admissions Zack easily has the best arm, he hustles, doesn't miss anything, catches the pitchers in the bullpen so the starting catcher can "save his knees", is the only Fresh to shag balls while the varsity is taking batting practice, etc. You get the picture.

In addition, we had the meeting a couple of weeks ago where we talked about summer ball and there will be 2 teams, a Varsity and a JV. Well the Varsity is going to a "camp" and a couple of different tournaments. So my wife asked the Varsity coach when the decisions would be made about who is on what team-to which he replied "Zack will be on JV". So it hasn't even started and his mind is already made up!!

We have tried to do everything right "politically" booster club, getting sponsors, etc.

All of the varsity of'rs are graduating this year and the "other" fresh that has been called up to JV is the starting RF'r and a junior that has been starting is the DH now. The reason behind this is the JV of'r can't read the balls well.

What I want to do is ask the coach "what does Zack need to improve on over the summer/fall/winter to maybe have an opportunity to play varsity next year?" But my wife thinks this is a bad idea.

Really need some help/guidance. I don't know why I walked into hs ball thinking the best players were going to play.
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Tx-HuskerTx-Husker1,000+ posts
quote:
What I want to do is ask the coach "what does Zack need to improve on over the summer/fall/winter to maybe have an opportunity to play varsity next year?" But my wife thinks this is a bad idea.


Think the Mrs is right. Zack needs to approach the coach with that question. It will mean more to Zack coming from the coach than from you. And, it is guaranteed to make the coach look at and think twice about Zack....that's really what you want out of this anyway, right?
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
But my wife thinks this is a bad idea.

So do I.

Relax. Breath. Relax. Most kids I am aware of, do not play varsity until junior year and many not until seniors. You cannot control what the coach does so let that 800 lb gorilla go. You cannot control what opportunities other kids have either. Encourage Zack and let it go at that. I am sure you can find a nice travel team for him to play on this summer.

Did you know there are several million ballplayers in the US btw? Have you seen all of them play? Not sure how you know Zack is the best right fielder in the US. I would let those comparisons go as well. Zack can improve by: improving his 60 time, improving his hitting, improving his strength which should include improving his power, improving his throwing (i.e, long tossing). Those are the positive things under his control. I will say, at 6-2 180 for a freshman, that is an impressive physical specimen

As far as right field goes, some coaches do not place a lot of value on that position as several games can go by and no balls are hit out there at the high school level. The main tool is hitting. The .480 is wonderful but maybe that coach thinks the other kids can hit a higher level of pitching than your son

There could be a million reasons that are out of your control. Maybe the other parents are better at politics than you are, for example. Again, that is out of your control.
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
things have a way of working out. if your son is as good as you say it will work out for him as well.


you said he was so so running. pg had a post somewhere about running/speed drills. that is something that stands out, speed or lack of it.

don't dwell on things you can't control. work very hard on the ones you can control. things will work out.

be careful,, while your fumimg your not enjoying. this will be over waaaayy to soon. enjoy the journey.


ps ; let Zack do the talking. the wives are usually right. Wink
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
the wives are usually right
Is this true? Is it indoctrination? Or is it an acquired philosophy to stay out of trouble? Smile I subscribe to your statement. Seeing it prompted me to wonder how I got to this point.

Bill Cosby - I don't know when I stopped being the boss. I don't know how it happened. I just know it happened.
Last edited by RJM
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by RJM:
quote:
the wives are usually right
Is this true? Is it indoctrination? Or is it an acquired philosophy to stay out of trouble? Smile I subscribe to your statement. Seeing it prompted me to wonder how I got to this point.

Bill Cosby - I don't know when I stopped being the boss. I don't know how it happened. I just know it happened.


There are two choices in life when dealing with your spouse...you can be right, or you can be happy, pick one. Wink
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Relax. Breath. Relax. Most kids I am aware of, do not play varsity until junior year and many not until seniors. You cannot control what the coach does so let that 800 lb gorilla go. You cannot control what opportunities other kids have either. Encourage Zack and let it go at that. I am sure you can find a nice travel team for him to play on this summer.

Did you know there are several million ballplayers in the US btw? Have you seen all of them play? Not sure how you know Zack is the best right fielder in the US. I would let those comparisons go as well. Zack can improve by: improving his 60 time, improving his hitting, improving his strength which should include improving his power, improving his throwing (i.e, long tossing). Those are the positive things under his control. I will say, at 6-2 180 for a freshman, that is an impressive physical specimen

As far as right field goes, some coaches do not place a lot of value on that position as several games can go by and no balls are hit out there at the high school level. The main tool is hitting. The .480 is wonderful but maybe that coach thinks the other kids can hit a higher level of pitching than your son

There could be a million reasons that are out of your control. Maybe the other parents are better at politics than you are, for example. Again, that is out of your control.


Relax and breathing are tough for me LOL. I am so much a type A personality.

And yes I realize there are several million ball players and I have watched enough "games" at all levels to understand truly where Zack's abilities fall in the pecking order-and most of his skills are average if you take everyone into consideration-at our school though it's a different story. Sometimes we sit around and watch college games in disbelief (sometimes we watch MLB games in disbelief). Errors just aren't and have never been acceptable so he doesn't make them-ever-not fielding-not throwing. Since he was about 12 comments like "he's better than anyone I have seen in hs" are frequently overheard. In one game against a MAJOR powerhouse here in GA he was so dominating the opposing coach came out of the dugout tipped his hat and bowed to him-and this is just not something this coach would do.

I agree about no balls being hit there in high school-but he did have one game when 6 were hit there and he shined and caught everything. I think he should be in CF (the only position he has played since he was about 9) but the "other" of'r that is being called up normally starts there. And when he is not there, another kid whose brother is a cf'r at a d1 college plays there (he has no business being there).
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
What I haven't stated in this thread is Zack has a learning disability. The reason why I would like to be the one to ask the coach is so it doesn't get mixed up getting back to me.

If Coach told Zack and I both that x,y,z needs to get done in order for Zack to be looked at for varsity, it will get done. Thing is if he tells just Zack by the time it gets back to me x,y,z might end up a,b,c.

And yes I am a happily married man so I understand LOL.
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
zacks dad

my son is the same way, but he would run through a wall for baseball, not so much for school work.i thought the apple would at least roll a little.
don't take this the wrong way. but maybe he's the only one that needs to know what the coach wants?


the cream rises to the top..... without being stirred.
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 20dad:
zacks dad

my son is the same way, but he would run through a wall for baseball, not so much for school work.i thought the apple would at least roll a little.
don't take this the wrong way. but maybe he's the only one that needs to know what the coach wants?


the cream rises to the top..... without being stirred.


Well Zack works hard in school too-he is on the honor roll-but it is tough. I don't know what we are going to do when he HAS to take spanish-this is a whole different topic for discussion.

I understand ultimately he is the one that needs to know what the coach wants-but when there is no baseball it's me that help's so I kind of need to know too.
B Blprkfrnks100+ posts
Some great key thoughts.

1. He's a freshman. This doesn't matter.

2. If he is good enough, it will take care of itself.

3. Enjoy today's game. Rather than watch the game thinking about the next level, enjoy today.

A friend of mine had a son that was stuck at JV last season and probably could have played varsity. All year he complained and compared stats and had a miserable season and the kid in turn found it hard to enjoy. This season his kid is struggling at varsity and that dad is having another bad season, mainly because he said too much about stats last year. The poor kid is so stressed that he is folding under the pressure put on by his dad.

4. HS baseball should be fun and HS stats don't mean much. The recruiting is mostly happening away from high school, so sit back and enjoy the HS experience.

PS, it is much easier to see these things once your kid gets older and has been through it.
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
Thanks everyone for the replies. I appreciate it. So we will let Zack talk to the varsity coach and go from there.

LOL but let me just say again it's frustrating. Game last night 8 balls hit to center and none of them were caught (this is the player that is getting called up). 7 balls hit to Zack he caught 6 of them-the one he didn't catch hit the top of the fence. Score was 15-14 in the top half of the 7th other team up-ball hit hard into the gap-cf'r gave up on it-Zack gets it and everyone in the stand spectacular catch-game saving catch-**** he is a helluva of'r-etc. (To us as jaded parents really it was just a routine catch for him).

Here's the thing-after he didn't catch the one ball that hit the fence-coach says something like "you're too stiff out there you need to be ready" some sort of garbage. Nothing is said to the cf'r-and EVERY ball that he didn't catch Zack would have. Sometimes I wish they would sit everyone else-shut up-and just let Zack play. Ball he missed he probably would have caught-but the freshman and the jv coach both yelled at him to play more toward the line. GRRRRRRRRRRR

OK I swear that is it. Now I am going to enjoy HS ball.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
CD,
My wife is always right when dealing with her spouse and she's happy. Smile

Zdad,
Chill. Your son is doing fine in HS baseball. He's playing. He'll start his sophmore season on JV and he'll play. He may get brought up at some point during the season. There are a lot worse things that could happen. No reason for your son or you to go talk to the coach.
Last edited by CADad
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by ZacksDad:

Here's the thing-after he didn't catch the one ball that hit the fence-coach says something like "you're too stiff out there you need to be ready" some sort of garbage. Nothing is said to the cf'r-and EVERY ball that he didn't catch Zack would have. Sometimes I wish they would sit everyone else-shut up-and just let Zack play. Ball he missed he probably would have caught-but the freshman and the jv coach both yelled at him to play more toward the line. GRRRRRRRRRRR

OK I swear that is it. Now I am going to enjoy HS ball.


Why are you so worried about what a coach says or doesn't say to another player? Or whose shirt is tucked in and whose is not. Your only concern should be what is addressed to him and how he plays his game and if they made mention of the ball he missed you shouldn't take offense. No offense but I do not care for parents who find fault in every player but their own.
How do you know that your son plays his position better than any other player in the US? Have you seen it. You might be pretty surprised at what's out there
You need to stop living those ESPN moments and try to sit back and enjoy day to day. Your son is a freshman, he has a long way to go. Yuo need to learn patience.

Look, we have all been through it. This is not new stuff to anyone. You need to learn to deal with YOUR emotions as a parent and stop judging everyone else.
SA S. Abrams100+ posts
One reason I see why parents are concerned with coaches is consistency or the lack of it. Sorry to tell most of you but it isn't a job requirement for coaches to be consistent. Yeah, we'd like some consistency from coaches but the world ain't perfect.

Also understand coaches in baseball...no other sport, bar none, has as much 2nd guessing done by coaches as baseball. It's almost part of the game's lore and history. And it goes on at every level, from PeeWee to MLB. The perfectly executed pitch called by the coach gets crushed....sorry, but pitcher/catcher/somebody-but-the-coach you are on your on.

Once you understand all of this, the game gets alot easier to play and keep in perspective. You learn how to have a short memory and not let things get up against you too much.
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:

Why are you so worried about what a coach says or doesn't say to another player? Or whose shirt is tucked in and whose is not. Your only concern should be what is addressed to him and how he plays his game and if they made mention of the ball he missed you shouldn't take offense. No offense but I do not care for parents who find fault in every player but their own.
How do you know that your son plays his position better than any other player in the US? Have you seen it. You might be pretty surprised at what's out there
You need to stop living those ESPN moments and try to sit back and enjoy day to day. Your son is a freshman, he has a long way to go. Yuo need to learn patience.

Look, we have all been through it. This is not new stuff to anyone. You need to learn to deal with YOUR emotions as a parent and stop judging everyone else.


Maybe I was raised differently, but I was raised same goes for everyone and things like hustle, hard work, 1st there last to leave, makes a difference.

I find plenty of fault in Zack you obviously didn't read the post above. Average speed, average hitter, above average arm, ungodly instincts, and all of the "little things" that this website says you "have" to do.

And no I wouldn't be surprised.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
quote:
Errors just aren't and have never been acceptable so he doesn't make them-ever-not fielding-not throwing.


ZacksDad, like TPM, I have trouble with this thread and the comments about the calibre of your son's play and the "awful" performance of the inept kid in CF.
While there are some descriptions you have provided that I might question, I was not there. So, I won't question them.
But, since you posted it, I have been gulping on the statement about errors. In the history of baseball, there isn't a player who does not make errors, not fielding, not throwing, "he doesn't make them, ever."
Errors are part of baseball. Everyone makes them. When you post that your son never makes them, "ever," I know that just cannot be. As a result, I have to question the reliability of what you have posted about your son, the CF and the coach.
Sorry, but players make errors. Every player makes them.
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:
[QUOTE]

ZacksDad, like TPM, I have trouble with this thread and the comments about the calibre of your son's play and the "awful" performance of the inept kid in CF.
While there are some descriptions you have provided that I might question, I was not there. So, I won't question them.
But, since you posted it, I have been gulping on the statement about errors. In the history of baseball, there isn't a player who does not make errors, not fielding, not throwing, "he doesn't make them, ever."
Errors are part of baseball. Everyone makes them. When you post that your son never makes them, "ever," I know that just cannot be. As a result, I have to question the reliability of what you have posted about your son, the CF and the coach.
Sorry, but players make errors. Every player makes them.


Calibre of my son-I said he was average with the exception of 1 thing. Once again Zack is AVERAGE with the exception of OF instincts......

Believe what you want-he has made 1 error in the last 9 years. And he has broke the wrong way on a ball twice.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by ZacksDad:
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:
[QUOTE]

ZacksDad, like TPM, I have trouble with this thread and the comments about the calibre of your son's play and the "awful" performance of the inept kid in CF.
While there are some descriptions you have provided that I might question, I was not there. So, I won't question them.
But, since you posted it, I have been gulping on the statement about errors. In the history of baseball, there isn't a player who does not make errors, not fielding, not throwing, "he doesn't make them, ever."
Errors are part of baseball. Everyone makes them. When you post that your son never makes them, "ever," I know that just cannot be. As a result, I have to question the reliability of what you have posted about your son, the CF and the coach.
Sorry, but players make errors. Every player makes them.


Calibre of my son-I said he was average with the exception of 1 thing. Once again Zack is AVERAGE with the exception of OF instincts......

Believe what you want-he has made 1 error in the last 9 years. And he has broke the wrong way on a ball twice.


You did post that he was average but also included this:
"Since he was about 12 comments like "he's better than anyone I have seen in hs" are frequently overheard. In one game against a MAJOR powerhouse here in GA he was so dominating the opposing coach came out of the dugout tipped his hat and bowed to him-and this is just not something this coach would do."


It is wonderful to be proud of your son. But any player who has played for 9 years has made more than one error. Only the best 12 year olds in the United States would have comments made by knowledgeable, powerhouse coaches of the type you have included.
I, for one, am not buying any of this. Sorry, but I am not reading baseball the way it gets played on the field in what you are posting.
Last edited by infielddad
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by S. Abrams:
One reason I see why parents are concerned with coaches is consistency or the lack of it. Sorry to tell most of you but it isn't a job requirement for coaches to be consistent. Yeah, we'd like some consistency from coaches but the world ain't perfect.


You didn't post the entire paragraph to S Abrams post.
IFD stated what I have been thinking. I have never seen any player not make an error, and if they do, that doesn't always mean they are lazy or lack the ability.
Every player is different, what if I told you my son was the last to arrive and the first to leave? I'll bet you would think he isn't very good or loved the game as much as Zack?
My whole point is that you should focus on what your son does and does not do, that should be your primary concern. Serves no value dissing players here, or coaches, whether we know who it is or not. I do not see the coaches dissing parents or players and I'll bet they have loads of stories to tell!

This is NOT the purpose of the HSBBW. You want to let off some steam, go ahead. No problem.
Last edited by TPM
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
quote:
I don't know why I walked into hs ball thinking the best players were going to play.


Maybe the best kids are playing. You state your son is "average" which sounds like he could be lumped into a group of players at a similar level competing for spots. Unless he stands out, it's a crapshoot with who the coach is and what he sees on the practice field and game and his perception of his players.

As a freshman, why is this a big deal and why is jv and varsity important as a freshman?

My son in his freshman year got a grand total of 25 AB's, hit .320 and still rode the bench for much of the time. I would've like to see him play more but unless he stood out, he was competing for innings and he had to go on his own and get better to win a spot.

By his junior year, the varsity coach finally knew his name and got some looks but he had to pay his dues on jv for a year and a half. Forget varsity. Freshman don't sniff varsity unless they're a freak and can pitch or start over any varsity starter and that almost never happens.

I don't understand a freshman player's rush thru jv to varsity. Typically, a 17-18 yr old varsity player is faster, stroger and more polished than a freshman and upperclassmen can handle pressure situations far better at the varsity level than a 14-15 yr old freshman who's untested, not ready and unproven.

They have to pay their dues.

If they sit as freshman, then they have to improve in summer ball and stand out so the coach has to play him.

While I know politics are a big part of HS sports, even the lesser bright coaches don't sit their best talent and most productive players.

My son didn't complain although he probably had a right to but he finally got his due when he did stand out in tryouts and prove in practice and scrimmages and hit well off some top pitchers in the conference that he should be playing every day. He eventually won the starting job by beating out the competition in preseason.

He had to be better than average. Otherwise, he would've sat behind the incumbents.
Last edited by zombywoof
IB Innocent Bystander500+ posts
It sounds like your son is a pretty good player, the biggest thing I see is that you might want to go to the regular glasses for baseball, the rose colored ones are just going to cause problems.
I have two boys in baseball, the youngest is a freshman. I think they're pretty good but I know they're not anywhere near as good as the boy you describe. I'd put both somewhere between your son and the center fielder. Sometimes I worry about things such as you've described but then I remember that baseball is a marathon, not a sprint. Smile
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
Let me see if I can summarize.

We are OCD so yeah we keep track of errors and once again believe what you want, I personally don't care if you buy it or not, it is what it is. I don't know why this is so unbelievable-ball hits you in the glove you catch it. He has always played the OF exclusively and the practice we have put in shows (maybe not to the coaches but to everyone else in the stands-but I guess everyone else is wrong).

When I state he is "average" I am NOT speaking of the players at his school-there he is definitely above average. His average is, after last nights game .500 which I would think would be average, he throws low 81-82 from the OF which I would think would be average, his speed is average, his intangibles are above average, and his OF "play" is well above average.

What I am bothered by MOSTLY, is that EVERYTHING we have instilled in him growing up is NOT coming to pass (work ethic, respect for the game and coaches, etc). So yes, the kid on the Fresh team taking the start JV's RF position bothers me, #1 the only thing they are comparable in is hitting-arm strength not even close-OF ability not even close-and #2 because of the overall demeanor of this kid in relationship to the game-how he carrys himself-playing with weeds in the OF-throwing his glove to his position-jersey untucked-yeah and no responses-doesn't stay after Fresh practice is over.
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
quote:

I have two boys in baseball, the youngest is a freshman. I think they're pretty good but I know they're not anywhere near as good as the boy you describe. I'd put both somewhere between your son and the center fielder. Sometimes I worry about things such as you've described but then I remember that baseball is a marathon, not a sprint. Smile


Thank you for your post. And you are right and I am trying to deal with my demons.
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:


You didn't post the entire paragraph to S Abrams post.
IFD stated what I have been thinking. I have never seen any player not make an error, and if they do, that doesn't always mean they are lazy or lack the ability.
Every player is different, what if I told you my son was the last to arrive and the first to leave? I'll bet you would think he isn't very good or loved the game as much as Zack?
My whole point is that you should focus on what your son does and does not do, that should be your primary concern. Serves no value dissing players here, or coaches, whether we know who it is or not. I do not see the coaches dissing parents or players and I'll bet they have loads of stories to tell!

This is NOT the purpose of the HSBBW. You want to let off some steam, go ahead. No problem.


I wouldn't say anything about your son until I saw him play.

And I am glad you realize overall I am just upset moreso because the lessons we have tried to teach him, and the values we have tried to instill in him, at this point in the game, are looking like lies to him.
Z ZacksDad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:

You did post that he was average but also included this:
"Since he was about 12 comments like "he's better than anyone I have seen in hs" are frequently overheard. In one game against a MAJOR powerhouse here in GA he was so dominating the opposing coach came out of the dugout tipped his hat and bowed to him-and this is just not something this coach would do."


It is wonderful to be proud of your son. But any player who has played for 9 years has made more than one error. Only the best 12 year olds in the United States would have comments made by knowledgeable, powerhouse coaches of the type you have included.
I, for one, am not buying any of this. Sorry, but I am not reading baseball the way it gets played on the field in what you are posting.


Your right and I have been trying to make this clear.......

His OF abilities are way above average. The rest=average.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
quote:
His OF abilities are way above average. The rest=average.


Let me ask you this: With a runner on 1b, the batter hits a line drive to the RF which he fields cleanly and an makes a very strong and accurate throw that happens to short hop the 2b. The 2b cannot handle the short hop and the ball bounces away. Each base runner takes an extra base.
Is there an error in the runners taking an extra base?
If there is an error, is it on the 2B for failing to field a perfect throw that short hops or is it on the outfielder for the perfect throw?
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
You know way too many stats. People that know this type of information throw up a huge red flag to me. How many times he has broke the wrong way on a fly ball?

I have tried to refrain from posting on this thread. But I guess I just cant help myself. You give every indication from your posts about your son and about his team mates that you are a coaches nightmare.

You know too much about things that do not matter. And you dont have a clue about the things that do. If you did you would never think about muchless post some of the things you have posted.

Quite honestly you are out of touch with baseball reality.

Many of you feel the same way I do even though you dont want to say it. I know you do. I will say it for you.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
One error in nine years---no I do not believe it ---I won't say that it is impossible but it is surely highly improbable

As for your attitude I am with Coach May--you are a coaches nightmare---You would not last one day around me


OH and by the way my son was an outfielder from HS thru college so I know about what it takes to play the outfield and errors happen, even to the best players
Last edited by TRhit
MN-MomMN-MomHSBaseballWeb Owner
ZachsDad,

You have gotten a lot of worthwhile advice above, and I want to repeat this little statement by Blprkfrnks:

"PS, it is much easier to see these things once your kid gets older and has been through it."

That's so true I have to repeat it again:

"...it is much easier to see these things once your kid gets older and has been through it."

Honestly, a lot of our members remember how things looked from the perspective of a freshman parent, and how different it started to look as our son was a sophomore, junior and senior. If there is one thing I hope you will take away from all the good advice you were given, I hope it is to relax and enjoy watching your son play baseball. If he is as good as he sounds, he will get his chances in the next several years.

Julie
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