Thanks for sayin' it, CM.
If ya' ain't makin' errors, ya' ain't tryin' hard enough.
Short hop throw to the infield infielder/catcher doesn't pick .... give the outfielder an error.quote:I don't know why this is so unbelievable-ball hits you in the glove you catch it.
Charge a ball aggressively and it takes a bad hop .... give the outfielder an error.
Charge a ball aggressively, slip, overstride and release high on a long throw and balls sails over target's head .... give the outfielder an error.
Lose a ball in the lights or sun, lunge for the ball at the last second and miss .... give the outfielder an error.
Lose a ball in the wind, lunge for the ball at the last second and miss .... give the outfielder an error.
None of this ever happened? I can show you excellent high school/travel outfielders this stuff happens to every year.
Also, coaches don't care how a kid fielded for the past nine years going back to age six. They only care how the player projects as a fielder now.
The more you post the more I wonder:
If you are coming across to his coaches the same way you are coming across on this messageboard, then maybe those coaches are taking the whole package into account when evaluating your son. If you continue to act this way in the college search, your son may be denied opportunities.
You say you are fighting these demons, so you obviously know you need to improve in this area. The advice to enjoy the ride is very important, and if you aren't able to do that I wonder if it might be doing your son a favor by simply not being there.
If you are coming across to his coaches the same way you are coming across on this messageboard, then maybe those coaches are taking the whole package into account when evaluating your son. If you continue to act this way in the college search, your son may be denied opportunities.
You say you are fighting these demons, so you obviously know you need to improve in this area. The advice to enjoy the ride is very important, and if you aren't able to do that I wonder if it might be doing your son a favor by simply not being there.
Who actually keeps track of "only broke the wrong way on a fly ball twice"... that's just nuts.
Have you considere that the learning disability could be affecting his playing time? I don't say this in jest but it is reality. I say this with firsthand information.
Maybe the coach knows this or it has come into play in baseball. If you are not sure that son can talk to coach and come back with xyz versus abc this could be a problem.
Many of us have learned as parents or coaches that what is seen in the stands is not the only qualifiers. There are a lot of things that come into play.
Don't rush the move up. We have a player that got moved up to varsity this year rather than jv and I feel sorry for the guy. He has got to play about 4 games all year and would start for jv. He just sits every game.
Again, take a deep breath and hang on. What East Cobb team does he play for?
Maybe the coach knows this or it has come into play in baseball. If you are not sure that son can talk to coach and come back with xyz versus abc this could be a problem.
Many of us have learned as parents or coaches that what is seen in the stands is not the only qualifiers. There are a lot of things that come into play.
Don't rush the move up. We have a player that got moved up to varsity this year rather than jv and I feel sorry for the guy. He has got to play about 4 games all year and would start for jv. He just sits every game.
Again, take a deep breath and hang on. What East Cobb team does he play for?
quote:Originally posted by RJM:Short hop throw to the infield infielder/catcher doesn't pick .... give the outfielder an error.quote:I don't know why this is so unbelievable-ball hits you in the glove you catch it.
Charge a ball aggressively and it takes a bad hop .... give the outfielder an error.
Charge a ball aggressively, slip, overstride and release high on a long throw and balls sails over target's head .... give the outfielder an error.
Lose a ball in the lights or sun, lunge for the ball at the last second and miss .... give the outfielder an error.
Lose a ball in the wind, lunge for the ball at the last second and miss .... give the outfielder an error.
None of this ever happened? I can show you excellent high school/travel outfielders this stuff happens to every year.
Also, coaches don't care how a kid fielded for the past nine years going back to age six. They only care how the player projects as a fielder now.
Out of everything you listed above I can say the ONLY thing that has PROBABLY happened would be the first scenario.
The rest of them absolutely not.
He has never had a ball go under his glove, he has never had to lunge for a ball, he has never had a ball hit him in the glove, he has never sailed a throw.
I still don't know what is so unbelievable. Let me tell you what I chalk it up to. As he has been growing up and playing EXCLUSIVELY CF we would practice, and practice, and practice like most people do on this site.
But I think the difference is, is that when we practice I knock the s... out of the ball and always have. And the field where we take outfield is just a big open field with no fences. So the task was you get out there, I hit the ball, you go get it.
quote:Originally posted by kbat2012:
Zacksdad: If your son is 6'2" 180, he should start Varsity right away, even with average talent. Something is not right here, either he is not as good as you think or the coaches have some problems with him.
Can you confirm that your son is:
1. 6'2" 180 freshman.
2. 1 error in 9 years at OF
3. batting over .400 now
4. has a cannon arm at RF
I would call Scott Boras right now if that's the truth.
Yes on all accounts.
Some other tidbits. He is a Freshman BUT he is 16 yrs old because he was held back a year.
For the person that asked, what "kind" of person keeps up with his son breaking the wrong way on the ball? Someone with OCD and it was such a glaring rarity it sticks out. One of the other coaches in the league who had seen him play over the years turned to me when this happened and said he had never seen Zack break the wrong way on a ball before.
Once again, he his average on all accounts, with the exception of his OF abilities and the intangibles. Average hitter, average power, average speed.
Everyone thinks this is so unbelievable-no more unbelievable than a 15 yr old hitting the ball 600 feet.
For those that say I am a "Coaches nightmare" I have not said one word to the coach about any of this.
.
That's how you teach him ZacksDad!
Is that Zack shagging one down near the far end of the valley? What model of Fungo bat do you use?
That's how you teach him ZacksDad!
Is that Zack shagging one down near the far end of the valley? What model of Fungo bat do you use?
quote:Originally posted by Blprkfrnks:
The more you post the more I wonder:
If you are coming across to his coaches the same way you are coming across on this messageboard, then maybe those coaches are taking the whole package into account when evaluating your son. If you continue to act this way in the college search, your son may be denied opportunities.
You say you are fighting these demons, so you obviously know you need to improve in this area. The advice to enjoy the ride is very important, and if you aren't able to do that I wonder if it might be doing your son a favor by simply not being there.
Yes I know I need to and I am trying-obviously not hard enough.
And I just want to stress this again, everyone keeps bringing up what "I" think about his abilities and are acting like that is the reason why I am ****ed.
I know that his abilities sooner or later will rise to the top (just rather have sooner lol), but........and let me say it again.............
What I am MOST upset about is the life lessons and values we have instilled in Zack are looking like lies because of what is happening. How many of you have had to look at your kid in the eye, when you can see him fighting back the tears, asking you why is this happening I have done everything and I am so much better than kid "X", and have to tell him son I am sorry and I don't know what to tell you other than to work harder and hopefully one day they will forget about who kid "x's" dad is, take the politics out of it, and put the better player in.
I have a hard time with this.
quote:Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
.
That's how you teach him ZacksDad!
Is that Zack shagging one down near the far end of the valley? What model of Fungo bat do you use?
Something very similar-laugh all you want to. And I don't use a fungo bat.
.
I'm not laughing at all...I'm admiring you. That's how I taught my boys. And I didn't use a Fungo either...didn't even know they existed.
I would enjoy watching a kid like Zack play ball. Much success to him and much success to you as well.
I'm not laughing at all...I'm admiring you. That's how I taught my boys. And I didn't use a Fungo either...didn't even know they existed.
I would enjoy watching a kid like Zack play ball. Much success to him and much success to you as well.
Quoted by ZacksDad:
"What I am MOST upset about is the life lessons and values we have instilled in Zack are looking like lies because of what is happening. How many of you have had to look at your kid in the eye, when you can see him fighting back the tears, asking you why is this happening I have done everything and I am so much better than kid "X", and have to tell him son I am sorry and I don't know what to tell you other than to work harder and hopefully one day they will forget about who kid "x's" dad is, take the politics out of it, and put the better player in.
I have a hard time with this."
____________________________________
Probably many of us on this site have gone thru this situation. In most cases, if the talent is there, it will work itself out the way you expect. You will only make it worse if you hyper focus on it, especially if you make a nusance of yourself with the coaches or other kids.
As a freshman you should enjoy this year because it really means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
An important life lesson is also one about not expecting immediate gratificaiton and not always getting what you want. Because he works hard does not mean he will get what he wants when he wants it. Working hard and doing the right things when, in your mind, obstacles are thrown in his way is the true test of a successful hard working person.
If you are believer in life lessons, which I am, this could be a great one to teach. He can sulk and feel sorry for himself because he/you believe he is getting robbed. Or he can continue to work hard, perform well in games and be rewarded somewhere down the road.
Your story is an old one which will continue to happen as long as kids play for coaches other than their fathers.
"What I am MOST upset about is the life lessons and values we have instilled in Zack are looking like lies because of what is happening. How many of you have had to look at your kid in the eye, when you can see him fighting back the tears, asking you why is this happening I have done everything and I am so much better than kid "X", and have to tell him son I am sorry and I don't know what to tell you other than to work harder and hopefully one day they will forget about who kid "x's" dad is, take the politics out of it, and put the better player in.
I have a hard time with this."
____________________________________
Probably many of us on this site have gone thru this situation. In most cases, if the talent is there, it will work itself out the way you expect. You will only make it worse if you hyper focus on it, especially if you make a nusance of yourself with the coaches or other kids.
As a freshman you should enjoy this year because it really means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
An important life lesson is also one about not expecting immediate gratificaiton and not always getting what you want. Because he works hard does not mean he will get what he wants when he wants it. Working hard and doing the right things when, in your mind, obstacles are thrown in his way is the true test of a successful hard working person.
If you are believer in life lessons, which I am, this could be a great one to teach. He can sulk and feel sorry for himself because he/you believe he is getting robbed. Or he can continue to work hard, perform well in games and be rewarded somewhere down the road.
Your story is an old one which will continue to happen as long as kids play for coaches other than their fathers.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fillsfan:
Quoted by ZacksDad:
"What I am MOST upset about is the life lessons and values we have instilled in Zack are looking like lies because of what is happening. How many of you have had to look at your kid in the eye, when you can see him fighting back the tears, asking you why is this happening I have done everything and I am so much better than kid "X", and have to tell him son I am sorry and I don't know what to tell you other than to work harder and hopefully one day they will forget about who kid "x's" dad is, take the politics out of it, and put the better player in.
I have a hard time with this."
____________________________________
I tend to think of "life lessons" as how you handle things when they don't go your way.
ZacksDad, your from Georgia. Certainly they have any number of high end, super elite, travel teams. Find one for Zack, dominate and go pro. Your probably right about your son. The Padres signed a 16 year old from Australia for 500k.
Quoted by ZacksDad:
"What I am MOST upset about is the life lessons and values we have instilled in Zack are looking like lies because of what is happening. How many of you have had to look at your kid in the eye, when you can see him fighting back the tears, asking you why is this happening I have done everything and I am so much better than kid "X", and have to tell him son I am sorry and I don't know what to tell you other than to work harder and hopefully one day they will forget about who kid "x's" dad is, take the politics out of it, and put the better player in.
I have a hard time with this."
____________________________________
I tend to think of "life lessons" as how you handle things when they don't go your way.
ZacksDad, your from Georgia. Certainly they have any number of high end, super elite, travel teams. Find one for Zack, dominate and go pro. Your probably right about your son. The Padres signed a 16 year old from Australia for 500k.
ZacksDad,
Other than your posts here, no one really knows anything about your son. However, regarding all those life lessons and values... Are they only substantiated by Zack playing at a higher level. Seems like all those life lessons should serve him well in something more important than baseball, like LIFE!
Seems as though he and maybe even you are experiencing one of life's lessons in this situation. How this is handled can be very important. The reason I and maybe some others know this is because I have failed in this area at times in the past. You can learn the old fashioned hard way, but IMO the smartest people learn from the mistakes made by others. It can save a lot of grief!
There are many important ingredients and values that will allow people to succeed if it is meant to be. Persistence, being able to adjust, etc. One important thing to learn is that the farther your son goes in this game the more obstacles he will come across. The farther he goes the more unfavorable decision makers he must deal with. Learning these lessons at his age, might just be preparing him for the future. But if he is being prepared by telling him how great he is and that he has already done all of what's necessary and that you don't understand why he is being slighted after doing everything you have told him... To be honest, you are not preparing him well for future success.
My suggestion is to tell him his turn will come. Be the best teammate he can possibly be. Continue to work hard and keep a good attitude. Be someone the coach respects and likes. That will not only help him in baseball... It will help him in everything! It's time to quit crying and be patient, it's a long journey. Tell him it aint going to be easy!
Best of luck
Other than your posts here, no one really knows anything about your son. However, regarding all those life lessons and values... Are they only substantiated by Zack playing at a higher level. Seems like all those life lessons should serve him well in something more important than baseball, like LIFE!
Seems as though he and maybe even you are experiencing one of life's lessons in this situation. How this is handled can be very important. The reason I and maybe some others know this is because I have failed in this area at times in the past. You can learn the old fashioned hard way, but IMO the smartest people learn from the mistakes made by others. It can save a lot of grief!
There are many important ingredients and values that will allow people to succeed if it is meant to be. Persistence, being able to adjust, etc. One important thing to learn is that the farther your son goes in this game the more obstacles he will come across. The farther he goes the more unfavorable decision makers he must deal with. Learning these lessons at his age, might just be preparing him for the future. But if he is being prepared by telling him how great he is and that he has already done all of what's necessary and that you don't understand why he is being slighted after doing everything you have told him... To be honest, you are not preparing him well for future success.
My suggestion is to tell him his turn will come. Be the best teammate he can possibly be. Continue to work hard and keep a good attitude. Be someone the coach respects and likes. That will not only help him in baseball... It will help him in everything! It's time to quit crying and be patient, it's a long journey. Tell him it aint going to be easy!
Best of luck
I posted above before reading what fillsfan and dswann posted. Guess that's at least three of us to consider.
I think you will find most people here will say pretty much the same thing.
I think you will find most people here will say pretty much the same thing.
quote:For those that say I am a "Coaches nightmare" I have not said one word to the coach about any of this.
I don't know if this applies to you or not, however a parent who never talks to the coach can still be a nightmare if he undermines the coach with other parents, other coaches, kids and his own son etc. If the topic of the coach comes up with another parent etc. I'd recomend avoiding any negative comments or insinuations about the coach and his program, other players in his program, as it will frustrate you further get you nowhere with the coach and other parents.
fillsfan has very good advice.
ZacksDad,
getting called up as a Fr isn't all that great a deal for your son as he needs reps and field time....yeah, I know your opinion of his skills but he has not played enough baseball to have seen everything on a field. He won't get to see it from the Varsity bench either. Pinch running doesn't provide much experience.
My sons HS has pulled Fr up but the the 3 kids I have seen moved up were/are tremendous overall players (I do not use the word tremendous lightly) that could hit, throw and run at a Varsity level and excel at any position. One of these kids was the best 15 yr old player I have seen in years. Simply put, they weren't "just as good as" type players but "much better" players than the Varsity kids. All 3 kids were impact type of players; consistently their instincts were better than other kids and their ability changed several games outcomes. No, my son isn't one of the three or even close to having their overall baseball/athletic ability; he's a catcher and wins games differently.
HS ball...good outfielders are great for any program but if they can't hit for average or power versus an average fielder that can hit lights out, the average fielder is going to win out almost every time at any program in the state. Sounds like while Zack is a very good outfielder, his hitting may not be up to the same level. Now imagine if he is average hitter against his own age and then starts facing 18 yr pitchers....he realistically may not be ready as a hitter for Varsity. And going 0-18 isn't going to help his confidence and could carry over into the field.
If possible, play at both East Cobb and summer HS ball. Play at 18U level so he gets a taste of Varsity pitching. Get into weight training seriously as it will help...he may be 6'2" 180 lbs but I can promise you he isn't as strong as most smaller 18 yr olds that have been lifting for a number of years ...his hitting and his self confidence. Keep working at his weaknesses, whatever they may be. Good luck.
Oh yeah...listen to the wife; Zack needs to do the talking now.
getting called up as a Fr isn't all that great a deal for your son as he needs reps and field time....yeah, I know your opinion of his skills but he has not played enough baseball to have seen everything on a field. He won't get to see it from the Varsity bench either. Pinch running doesn't provide much experience.
My sons HS has pulled Fr up but the the 3 kids I have seen moved up were/are tremendous overall players (I do not use the word tremendous lightly) that could hit, throw and run at a Varsity level and excel at any position. One of these kids was the best 15 yr old player I have seen in years. Simply put, they weren't "just as good as" type players but "much better" players than the Varsity kids. All 3 kids were impact type of players; consistently their instincts were better than other kids and their ability changed several games outcomes. No, my son isn't one of the three or even close to having their overall baseball/athletic ability; he's a catcher and wins games differently.
HS ball...good outfielders are great for any program but if they can't hit for average or power versus an average fielder that can hit lights out, the average fielder is going to win out almost every time at any program in the state. Sounds like while Zack is a very good outfielder, his hitting may not be up to the same level. Now imagine if he is average hitter against his own age and then starts facing 18 yr pitchers....he realistically may not be ready as a hitter for Varsity. And going 0-18 isn't going to help his confidence and could carry over into the field.
If possible, play at both East Cobb and summer HS ball. Play at 18U level so he gets a taste of Varsity pitching. Get into weight training seriously as it will help...he may be 6'2" 180 lbs but I can promise you he isn't as strong as most smaller 18 yr olds that have been lifting for a number of years ...his hitting and his self confidence. Keep working at his weaknesses, whatever they may be. Good luck.
Oh yeah...listen to the wife; Zack needs to do the talking now.
There is something amiss here in my mind---with the numbers you listed the kid should be playing everyday regardless of the team or level at HS
But allow me to say this and this is as a parent who has had three boys play college baseball and all were successful. They all paid their dues. The last guy was porbably the best of them all but as a frosh coach told hhim he is loyal to his seniors thus he wanted my son whom he termed a better player than is senior CF , to play at the JV level so he could play every day---It worked great--he had a great JV year and then three all County season on the JV--and then a college scholarship to a major D-I program where he played regularly--
Perhaps this all would not have happened if I got in the middle of the "I am loyal" to my seniors thing--it wasn't easy holding back but it all worked---my son was not happy about it when Coach talked with him about it but he accepted with complaining --better to be playing every day and batting third in the JV lineup rather than sitting on the varsity bench
My advice is to suck it up and go with the flow but I can honestly say you sound Like a parent I would not want around our travel team because you would probably be hanging around the the backstop or by the dugout mumbling to yourself but loud enough for all to hear
But allow me to say this and this is as a parent who has had three boys play college baseball and all were successful. They all paid their dues. The last guy was porbably the best of them all but as a frosh coach told hhim he is loyal to his seniors thus he wanted my son whom he termed a better player than is senior CF , to play at the JV level so he could play every day---It worked great--he had a great JV year and then three all County season on the JV--and then a college scholarship to a major D-I program where he played regularly--
Perhaps this all would not have happened if I got in the middle of the "I am loyal" to my seniors thing--it wasn't easy holding back but it all worked---my son was not happy about it when Coach talked with him about it but he accepted with complaining --better to be playing every day and batting third in the JV lineup rather than sitting on the varsity bench
My advice is to suck it up and go with the flow but I can honestly say you sound Like a parent I would not want around our travel team because you would probably be hanging around the the backstop or by the dugout mumbling to yourself but loud enough for all to hear
quote:Originally posted by ZacksDad:quote:Originally posted by kbat2012:
Zacksdad: If your son is 6'2" 180, he should start Varsity right away, even with average talent. Something is not right here, either he is not as good as you think or the coaches have some problems with him.
Can you confirm that your son is:
1. 6'2" 180 freshman.
2. 1 error in 9 years at OF
3. batting over .400 now
4. has a cannon arm at RF
I would call Scott Boras right now if that's the truth.
Yes on all accounts.
Some other tidbits. He is a Freshman BUT he is 16 yrs old because he was held back a year.
For the person that asked, what "kind" of person keeps up with his son breaking the wrong way on the ball? Someone with OCD and it was such a glaring rarity it sticks out. One of the other coaches in the league who had seen him play over the years turned to me when this happened and said he had never seen Zack break the wrong way on a ball before.
Once again, he his average on all accounts, with the exception of his OF abilities and the intangibles. Average hitter, average power, average speed.
Everyone thinks this is so unbelievable-no more unbelievable than a 15 yr old hitting the ball 600 feet.
For those that say I am a "Coaches nightmare" I have not said one word to the coach about any of this.
Just a thought. ZD learn to play the game. Your posts advocating your sons strenghts and the percieved glaring weaknesses of his teamates are best kept to yourself. I find it difficult to believe that you have been quietly sitting in stands making careful mental notes on the ebb and flow of the game. Clearly, if your assessement of your son is true and you describe him as average, suggests anything else is below average. If you have indeed expressed any of your concerns per your posts to another fan(s) in the stands, no matter how innocent or factual, will be considered a slap in the face to other parents and they will respond. It has/will get back to the coach. If this the case you should consider moving to another district. YOU HAVE NAPALMED ANY FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES FOR YOUR SON.
Sorry ZD that's HS baseball.
quote:getting called up as a Fr isn't all that great a deal for your son as he needs reps and field time
Reps is key. You can't get better sitting on the bench. What's the point of wanting or rushing to move up to jv or varsity if you're not gonna play?
I don't care what anybody says about playing up if you're on the bench. You can't get better watching. You might pick up some things to help on the mental side of the game and become a better cheerleader but if playing time is at the lower levels, that's where you'd want to be because by time you get your shot with the big boys, you should be ready to produce at that level.
zomby
well said !!!
well said !!!
What you see as a stubbling block , a pot hole in the road , a very tough situation to deal with , an injustice , etc etc etc ---- I see as an opportunity to continue to teach life lessons , an opportunity to grow as a player and a young man , an opportunity to teach , an opportunity to learn , an opportunity for him to learn what it means to pay your dues , an opportunity to use this situation as motivation , an opportunity PERIOD.
You have two choices when your faced with a situation you and that includes your son - a situation that you feel is not fair , right , etc etc. You can start looking for excuses , you can look to blame , you can look to undermine others , you can start bashing the kids that are playing , you can bash the coach etc etc. Or you can turn it into an opportunity to grow. Your on the right track to be in the first scenario.
These situations happen to every player at some point and time. What determines how they come out of it or if they come out of it is how they see it and approach it. You look your kid in the eyes and you tell him to keep working his butt off. You tell him that nothing is fair in life and he has to do whatever it takes to succeed if he truly loves the game. Or you can start bashing folks and whining and crying and prove the coach right.
I am sick of all these threads about coaches and how unfair their kid is being treated. Quit bitching and whining and do something positive about it. Or continue to whine and cry and see where that gets you.
I can bet you something. Your son is not as good as you think. And he is probably better than the coach thinks. But what you think doesnt matter. Your not making out the line up card and no one on this site is either. The only thing that matters is what is your son going to do about it. Step up and prove the coach wrong? Or whine and cry on your shoulder as you whine and cry to everyone else?
And sorry but if you know how many times your son has broke the wrong way on a fly ball your in need of a hobby. Seriously , go fishing and stay away from the park for awhile it will do you and your son some good.
You have two choices when your faced with a situation you and that includes your son - a situation that you feel is not fair , right , etc etc. You can start looking for excuses , you can look to blame , you can look to undermine others , you can start bashing the kids that are playing , you can bash the coach etc etc. Or you can turn it into an opportunity to grow. Your on the right track to be in the first scenario.
These situations happen to every player at some point and time. What determines how they come out of it or if they come out of it is how they see it and approach it. You look your kid in the eyes and you tell him to keep working his butt off. You tell him that nothing is fair in life and he has to do whatever it takes to succeed if he truly loves the game. Or you can start bashing folks and whining and crying and prove the coach right.
I am sick of all these threads about coaches and how unfair their kid is being treated. Quit bitching and whining and do something positive about it. Or continue to whine and cry and see where that gets you.
I can bet you something. Your son is not as good as you think. And he is probably better than the coach thinks. But what you think doesnt matter. Your not making out the line up card and no one on this site is either. The only thing that matters is what is your son going to do about it. Step up and prove the coach wrong? Or whine and cry on your shoulder as you whine and cry to everyone else?
And sorry but if you know how many times your son has broke the wrong way on a fly ball your in need of a hobby. Seriously , go fishing and stay away from the park for awhile it will do you and your son some good.
Zacksdad,
You've gotten some good advice from some very good baseball people, in particular PG and Coach May.
One thing I have learned (and so has my player) that life is not fair, and baseball helps one put into perspective how to approach those unfair situations in life.
My son as well as others have most likely been in those "unfair" situations. How they learned to deal with it made them better players. If my 16 year old came home with tears in his eyes because he wasn't getting treated the way he felt he should be he'd get a pretty hard time around here. He knew better than to complain when he wasn't happy at an early age. Your son is playing upon your emotions, don't let him do that to you or him mom.
What you have done is concentrated on one position exclusively, so your son would be the best, and possibility is that he is the best he can be at his position but there are others, maybe not in your eyes, that are. This happens all of the time. You and he better get used to it.
As far as comments made by others about your son's ability, the only comments that count are the coach he is playing for, that day, that year, that's all that counts.
You know that expression, baseball is life, embrace it, deal with it, and I agree, get yourself a hobby and let him play his own game and become his own man.
You've gotten some good advice from some very good baseball people, in particular PG and Coach May.
One thing I have learned (and so has my player) that life is not fair, and baseball helps one put into perspective how to approach those unfair situations in life.
My son as well as others have most likely been in those "unfair" situations. How they learned to deal with it made them better players. If my 16 year old came home with tears in his eyes because he wasn't getting treated the way he felt he should be he'd get a pretty hard time around here. He knew better than to complain when he wasn't happy at an early age. Your son is playing upon your emotions, don't let him do that to you or him mom.
What you have done is concentrated on one position exclusively, so your son would be the best, and possibility is that he is the best he can be at his position but there are others, maybe not in your eyes, that are. This happens all of the time. You and he better get used to it.
As far as comments made by others about your son's ability, the only comments that count are the coach he is playing for, that day, that year, that's all that counts.
You know that expression, baseball is life, embrace it, deal with it, and I agree, get yourself a hobby and let him play his own game and become his own man.
This thread is exhausting! Let the kid find his own way through this, sit in the stands, cheer, throw the coach a smile and if he is as good as you say, he'll be in Yankee Stadium by August!
What doesn't make sense to me is how a kid with average speed can be one of the best defensive outfielders in the country.
I suggest a Perfect game showcase for evaluation.
That should take care of any questions and give the player and dad a chance to see how he rates against others his age and grade.
That should take care of any questions and give the player and dad a chance to see how he rates against others his age and grade.
Congratulations! Your son is better than all the starters on my son's varsity team. And they're in first.quote:Originally posted by ZacksDad:quote:Originally posted by RJM:Short hop throw to the infield infielder/catcher doesn't pick .... give the outfielder an error.quote:I don't know why this is so unbelievable-ball hits you in the glove you catch it.
Charge a ball aggressively and it takes a bad hop .... give the outfielder an error.
Charge a ball aggressively, slip, overstride and release high on a long throw and balls sails over target's head .... give the outfielder an error.
Lose a ball in the lights or sun, lunge for the ball at the last second and miss .... give the outfielder an error.
Lose a ball in the wind, lunge for the ball at the last second and miss .... give the outfielder an error.
None of this ever happened? I can show you excellent high school/travel outfielders this stuff happens to every year.
Also, coaches don't care how a kid fielded for the past nine years going back to age six. They only care how the player projects as a fielder now.
Out of everything you listed above I can say the ONLY thing that has PROBABLY happened would be the first scenario.
The rest of them absolutely not.
He has never had a ball go under his glove, he has never had to lunge for a ball, he has never had a ball hit him in the glove, he has never sailed a throw.
I still don't know what is so unbelievable. Let me tell you what I chalk it up to. As he has been growing up and playing EXCLUSIVELY CF we would practice, and practice, and practice like most people do on this site.
But I think the difference is, is that when we practice I knock the s... out of the ball and always have. And the field where we take outfield is just a big open field with no fences. So the task was you get out there, I hit the ball, you go get it.
How is a player not on varsity one of the best outfielders in the country. I don't think dad understands how the game gets faster (how hard the ball is hit, how fast the runners are) at each level. My son played in an 18U travel tournament as a fifteen year old last summer. He said he had never had balls hit at him that hard before.** On the choppers he said the runners went down the line faster than he was accustomed.quote:Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
What doesn't make sense to me is how a kid with average speed can be one of the best defensive outfielders in the country.
** When the first one exploded at his feet, after making the play and throwing the ball around, he held his glove over his face and mouthed "Holy ****! to me in the stands.
Perhaps we should should set up a special forums for the "over the top dads" so they can each compare notes-
They apparently do not want to listen to those of us who have already been thru the routine---
DUH--one error in 9 years--best OF in the country as a frosh not even on varsity---only average speed--
Imagine the discussions if only these type of Dads were talking to each other--- it would be like a poker game--I will raise you one---Ok I will raise you two ===LOL
They apparently do not want to listen to those of us who have already been thru the routine---
DUH--one error in 9 years--best OF in the country as a frosh not even on varsity---only average speed--
Imagine the discussions if only these type of Dads were talking to each other--- it would be like a poker game--I will raise you one---Ok I will raise you two ===LOL
Really, and I mean this....
Thanks for listening and thanks for all of the constructive criticism.
Thanks for listening and thanks for all of the constructive criticism.
Make sure you stick around...
Thank you! May I have another?quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
Make sure you stick around...
Hey Zacksdad -
I think you are no doubt a good guy. You've been knocked around here a bit. Most of it was deserved, IMO.
The thing about lots of the folks here is that they have seen a lot of baseball and baseball players, and the radar starts beeping when dads come here and make statements such as you made.
Even if you are currently in the category of "coaches biggest nightmare," it doesn't mean that you have to stay there. This site can be a fast way to learn tough lessons on how best to really help your son advance in this game.
So hang around, don't let the roughing up keep you from learning here. This place was CRITICAL in teaching me what I needed to know to help my own son.
I invite you to stay here and be a part of things. I for one am interested to see how Zack develops. It wasn't very long ago my son was Zack's age.
I think you are no doubt a good guy. You've been knocked around here a bit. Most of it was deserved, IMO.
The thing about lots of the folks here is that they have seen a lot of baseball and baseball players, and the radar starts beeping when dads come here and make statements such as you made.
Even if you are currently in the category of "coaches biggest nightmare," it doesn't mean that you have to stay there. This site can be a fast way to learn tough lessons on how best to really help your son advance in this game.
So hang around, don't let the roughing up keep you from learning here. This place was CRITICAL in teaching me what I needed to know to help my own son.
I invite you to stay here and be a part of things. I for one am interested to see how Zack develops. It wasn't very long ago my son was Zack's age.
ZD .... I learned a valuable lesson this week. Before going off, count to ten. Maybe it's ten days. If I had got to six days (next game due to rain) I could have saved myself a lot of aggravation. I don't know why my son was treated the way he was (see thread if necessary/not repeating it). I don't know why he started today. The coach still hasn't talked to him about the situation and most likely never will. But today he started and was one of the hitting stars of the game so who cares about last week.
What did my son say when he got off the bus and in the car? It wasn't about the game. It was, "I'm starved! Can we go to Outback?" He sat there quietly. I let him make the first comment about the game. I thought the next comment would be about baseball. He blurted out, "Look out! I can get my permit next week." Sometimes I think we (parents) get more into it and overthink situations more than the kids.
Sometimes we forget how we handled things when we played. My son taught me everything I needed to know about putting the game in the review mirror when he was ten and I forgot. After winning a U11 travel s****r championship the first two things he said were, "What's for lunch?" and "May I have a PlayStation for Christmas?"
What did my son say when he got off the bus and in the car? It wasn't about the game. It was, "I'm starved! Can we go to Outback?" He sat there quietly. I let him make the first comment about the game. I thought the next comment would be about baseball. He blurted out, "Look out! I can get my permit next week." Sometimes I think we (parents) get more into it and overthink situations more than the kids.
Sometimes we forget how we handled things when we played. My son taught me everything I needed to know about putting the game in the review mirror when he was ten and I forgot. After winning a U11 travel s****r championship the first two things he said were, "What's for lunch?" and "May I have a PlayStation for Christmas?"
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
ZD .... I learned a valuable lesson this week. Before going off, count to ten. Maybe it's ten days. If I had got to six days (next game due to rain) I could have saved myself a lot of aggravation.
That there is good advice.
Wow, Wow, Wow!
This is a great thread. It could have turned all ugly and hurtful, but there are so many good posts here with helpful, insightful advice.
And ZacksDad, I truly have to commend you for this response after everything that was shared here:
"Really, and I mean this....Thanks for listening and thanks for all of the constructive criticism."
That's the type of response that shows that you, and your son, are going to benefit from all the good advice here. And in another 3 years - or 5 or 10 - you'll be the one giving newcomers excellent advice.
ZacksDad, you've been around the site for a while so you may already be familiar with who all these other members are, but for any newer members reading this thread, I just thought I would give a few brief bios, LOL... Feel free to correct me on any of the facts that I mess up! 
PGStaff
Great advice as always, and here's one of my favorite parts:
"My suggestion is to tell him his turn will come. Be the best teammate he can possibly be. Continue to work hard and keep a good attitude. Be someone the coach respects and likes. That will not only help him in baseball... It will help him in everything!"
PGStaff is first and foremost a big fan of the game of baseball, but also president of one of the most well known and respected baseball organizations in the country, a former college coach himself, father of two boys who played pro baseball, one of them pitching for many years in MLB ... and one of my personal favorite posters here. Perhaps the member who has most often heard from our other members "I read everything you post here."
Coach May
An excerpt from his excellent advice:
"These situations happen to every player at some point and time. What determines how they come out of it or if they come out of it is how they see it and approach it. You look your kid in the eyes and you tell him to keep working his butt off. You tell him that nothing is fair in life and he has to do whatever it takes to succeed if he truly loves the game."
Coach May is of course as you might guess from the name, a baseball coach. Also father of a very talented 2008 HS grad who received baseball scholarship offers from ACC and SEC schools and is a freshman this year at a very impressive DI baseball program. Coach May also earns the honor of perhaps being told the most times by parents on this site, "I wish my son had a coach like you."
ClevelandDad quote:
"Relax. Breath. Relax. Most kids I am aware of, do not play varsity until junior year and many not until seniors. You cannot control what the coach does so let that 800 lb gorilla go. You cannot control what opportunities other kids have either. Encourage Zack and let it go at that."
ClevelandDad has a son who, as a freshman in a very good college baseball program, fought through some bumps in the road to have a great season, and now as a senior is a key player on a very good DI team that at least once this month has been tied for most college wins in the nation.
20dad quote:
"don't dwell on things you can't control. work very hard on the ones you can control. things will work out. ... be careful,, while your fuming your not enjoying. this will be over waaaayy to soon. enjoy the journey."
20dad's son was drafted in 2006 and played MiLB for my FAVORITE MLB team, the Minnesota Twins, though his pro career was interrupted by injury and resulting surgery. 20dad is also one of the nicest and most modest dads I've ever gotten to "meet" through these forums.
CPLZ quote:
"There are two choices in life when dealing with your spouse...you can be right, or you can be happy, pick one."
Love that quote, though it's not EXACTLY about baseball. CPLZ has a son who is winning honors this year as a sophomore pitcher for a well respected college baseball program. Well shoot, that's gonna happen when you are a 6'5" pitcher who touches 94 mph.
infielddad quote:
"In the history of baseball, there isn't a player who does not make errors, not fielding, not throwing, "he doesn't make them, ever."
Errors are part of baseball. Everyone makes them."
infielddad's son had a very successful college career, was drafted and played several years of MiLB baseball before recurring injuries ended his playing career prematurely. His son now coaches college baseball.
Innocent Bystander quote:
"I have two boys in baseball, the youngest is a freshman. I think they're pretty good but I know they're not anywhere near as good as the boy you describe. I'd put both somewhere between your son and the center fielder."
LOL, Innocent Bystander forgot to mention that his oldest son gets paid to play MiLB baseball.
infidel_08 quote:
"If ya' ain't makin' errors, ya' ain't tryin' hard enough."
I don't know if infidel knows anything about baseball (just kidding, Mike), but his son was drafted in the second round last year as a 2008 HS grad. And I hope this isn't impolite to mention, but wow, there were a lot of digits on that signing bonus!
TPM quote:
"As far as comments made by others about your son's ability, the only comments that count are the coach he is playing for, that day, that year, that's all that counts."
TPM's son pitched for a major DI baseball program, was drafted in the second round in 2007, and got to pitch against the "big boys" (MLB) several times this year in Spring Training. I hope to see him on the mound in regular season MLB games before long!
Rob Kremer quote:
"I invite you to stay here and be a part of things. I for one am interested to see how Zack develops. It wasn't very long ago my son was Zack's age."
Rob's son is a very successful HS senior who has signed to play DI baseball next year with a very good college program.
And a lot of other excellent posts and advice from other members I haven't quoted.
I'm sorry if this post seems too long, but hopefully you get the point:
Many parents offering you advice here have sons who have been through HS baseball and many of them have reached a level that most boys only get to dream about.
But doggone, it's hard for the rest of us to tell what age most of their sons are, because they don't toot their sons' horns and tell us about their accomplishments. And sometimes some of the best advice comes from newcomers or those just starting the journey, too - I love it when that happens!
We have had a lot of new members joining our forums in the past few weeks, and I hope everyone will feel comfortable joining in the conversation. Again to ZacksDad and our other parents of HS players just starting this fun, frustrating, fantastic journey: Welcome to this special place - please relax and stay awhile!
Julie
This is a great thread. It could have turned all ugly and hurtful, but there are so many good posts here with helpful, insightful advice.
And ZacksDad, I truly have to commend you for this response after everything that was shared here:
"Really, and I mean this....Thanks for listening and thanks for all of the constructive criticism."
That's the type of response that shows that you, and your son, are going to benefit from all the good advice here. And in another 3 years - or 5 or 10 - you'll be the one giving newcomers excellent advice.
ZacksDad, you've been around the site for a while so you may already be familiar with who all these other members are, but for any newer members reading this thread, I just thought I would give a few brief bios, LOL...
Feel free to correct me on any of the facts that I mess up! PGStaff
Great advice as always, and here's one of my favorite parts:
"My suggestion is to tell him his turn will come. Be the best teammate he can possibly be. Continue to work hard and keep a good attitude. Be someone the coach respects and likes. That will not only help him in baseball... It will help him in everything!"
PGStaff is first and foremost a big fan of the game of baseball, but also president of one of the most well known and respected baseball organizations in the country, a former college coach himself, father of two boys who played pro baseball, one of them pitching for many years in MLB ... and one of my personal favorite posters here. Perhaps the member who has most often heard from our other members "I read everything you post here."
Coach May
An excerpt from his excellent advice:
"These situations happen to every player at some point and time. What determines how they come out of it or if they come out of it is how they see it and approach it. You look your kid in the eyes and you tell him to keep working his butt off. You tell him that nothing is fair in life and he has to do whatever it takes to succeed if he truly loves the game."
Coach May is of course as you might guess from the name, a baseball coach. Also father of a very talented 2008 HS grad who received baseball scholarship offers from ACC and SEC schools and is a freshman this year at a very impressive DI baseball program. Coach May also earns the honor of perhaps being told the most times by parents on this site, "I wish my son had a coach like you."
ClevelandDad quote:
"Relax. Breath. Relax. Most kids I am aware of, do not play varsity until junior year and many not until seniors. You cannot control what the coach does so let that 800 lb gorilla go. You cannot control what opportunities other kids have either. Encourage Zack and let it go at that."
ClevelandDad has a son who, as a freshman in a very good college baseball program, fought through some bumps in the road to have a great season, and now as a senior is a key player on a very good DI team that at least once this month has been tied for most college wins in the nation.
20dad quote:
"don't dwell on things you can't control. work very hard on the ones you can control. things will work out. ... be careful,, while your fuming your not enjoying. this will be over waaaayy to soon. enjoy the journey."
20dad's son was drafted in 2006 and played MiLB for my FAVORITE MLB team, the Minnesota Twins, though his pro career was interrupted by injury and resulting surgery. 20dad is also one of the nicest and most modest dads I've ever gotten to "meet" through these forums.
CPLZ quote:
"There are two choices in life when dealing with your spouse...you can be right, or you can be happy, pick one."
Love that quote, though it's not EXACTLY about baseball.
CPLZ has a son who is winning honors this year as a sophomore pitcher for a well respected college baseball program. Well shoot, that's gonna happen when you are a 6'5" pitcher who touches 94 mph.infielddad quote:
"In the history of baseball, there isn't a player who does not make errors, not fielding, not throwing, "he doesn't make them, ever."
Errors are part of baseball. Everyone makes them."
infielddad's son had a very successful college career, was drafted and played several years of MiLB baseball before recurring injuries ended his playing career prematurely. His son now coaches college baseball.
Innocent Bystander quote:
"I have two boys in baseball, the youngest is a freshman. I think they're pretty good but I know they're not anywhere near as good as the boy you describe. I'd put both somewhere between your son and the center fielder."
LOL, Innocent Bystander forgot to mention that his oldest son gets paid to play MiLB baseball.
infidel_08 quote:
"If ya' ain't makin' errors, ya' ain't tryin' hard enough."
I don't know if infidel knows anything about baseball (just kidding, Mike), but his son was drafted in the second round last year as a 2008 HS grad. And I hope this isn't impolite to mention, but wow, there were a lot of digits on that signing bonus!
TPM quote:
"As far as comments made by others about your son's ability, the only comments that count are the coach he is playing for, that day, that year, that's all that counts."
TPM's son pitched for a major DI baseball program, was drafted in the second round in 2007, and got to pitch against the "big boys" (MLB) several times this year in Spring Training. I hope to see him on the mound in regular season MLB games before long!
Rob Kremer quote:
"I invite you to stay here and be a part of things. I for one am interested to see how Zack develops. It wasn't very long ago my son was Zack's age."
Rob's son is a very successful HS senior who has signed to play DI baseball next year with a very good college program.
And a lot of other excellent posts and advice from other members I haven't quoted.
I'm sorry if this post seems too long, but hopefully you get the point:
Many parents offering you advice here have sons who have been through HS baseball and many of them have reached a level that most boys only get to dream about.
But doggone, it's hard for the rest of us to tell what age most of their sons are, because they don't toot their sons' horns and tell us about their accomplishments.
And sometimes some of the best advice comes from newcomers or those just starting the journey, too - I love it when that happens!We have had a lot of new members joining our forums in the past few weeks, and I hope everyone will feel comfortable joining in the conversation. Again to ZacksDad and our other parents of HS players just starting this fun, frustrating, fantastic journey: Welcome to this special place - please relax and stay awhile!
Julie
ZacksDad,
I see your points, well stated, but the way the real world goes alot of things aint fair. Some things to ponder are there are millions of ball players out there, we are all just small fish in a big pond. Plus High School Ball as far as trying to get recruited is not really were its at these days as its hard for High School teams to give a player the experience a some of the big time travel teams. So focus more on the 2/3rds of the season that is not high school ball. Get him some exposure on some good travel teams and go to some good Show Cases, if he has those abilities some one is going to notice at the show cases and with that height and build as a freshman some school is going to take a chance on him for sure if he plays like you say. High School isnt worth the stress over it all as its not what it used to be when you were a kid. If you and your son work as hard as you imply and he has those skills heck you could skip the school stuff and just play on elite travel teams, I would bet he would get more expose and competition that way. Dont forget his grades is going to help him also. Your trying to do whats right for him but the rest of the world aint that perfect so your son has to learn to deal with the rest of the world that aint so nice.
I see your points, well stated, but the way the real world goes alot of things aint fair. Some things to ponder are there are millions of ball players out there, we are all just small fish in a big pond. Plus High School Ball as far as trying to get recruited is not really were its at these days as its hard for High School teams to give a player the experience a some of the big time travel teams. So focus more on the 2/3rds of the season that is not high school ball. Get him some exposure on some good travel teams and go to some good Show Cases, if he has those abilities some one is going to notice at the show cases and with that height and build as a freshman some school is going to take a chance on him for sure if he plays like you say. High School isnt worth the stress over it all as its not what it used to be when you were a kid. If you and your son work as hard as you imply and he has those skills heck you could skip the school stuff and just play on elite travel teams, I would bet he would get more expose and competition that way. Dont forget his grades is going to help him also. Your trying to do whats right for him but the rest of the world aint that perfect so your son has to learn to deal with the rest of the world that aint so nice.
RJM,
I'm kinda hungry myself. Can you take me to Outback?
Zacksdad,
It is probably a bit tough for your son to be on the freshman team at his age but it is quite normal for a freshman to play on the frosh team and a sophmore to play JV. We have no way of knowing where his skills would fit if he were playing at a higher level.
Almost all of us know with absolute certainty that we are better judges of talent than the HS coach at our school. At the same time almost all of us realize that the vast majority of HS coaches are far better judges of talent than the vast majority of parents so we're going to assume that the HS coach is better equipped to judge your son's talent and where he needs to be to help his improvement and the team in the future.
I second TPM's suggestion of going to a PG showcase. The results won't make a hoot of difference to the coach but you'll get a totally unbiased assessment of your son's current abilities and potential and that should help you either realize he's being treated fairly or realize he isn't and then decide how to handle it.
I'm kinda hungry myself. Can you take me to Outback?
Zacksdad,
It is probably a bit tough for your son to be on the freshman team at his age but it is quite normal for a freshman to play on the frosh team and a sophmore to play JV. We have no way of knowing where his skills would fit if he were playing at a higher level.
Almost all of us know with absolute certainty that we are better judges of talent than the HS coach at our school.
At the same time almost all of us realize that the vast majority of HS coaches are far better judges of talent than the vast majority of parents so we're going to assume that the HS coach is better equipped to judge your son's talent and where he needs to be to help his improvement and the team in the future.I second TPM's suggestion of going to a PG showcase. The results won't make a hoot of difference to the coach but you'll get a totally unbiased assessment of your son's current abilities and potential and that should help you either realize he's being treated fairly or realize he isn't and then decide how to handle it.
What makes this site special is the people. I know that you know because we have all been there. I always felt that having kids myself made me a better coach. It gave me a better understanding of how my parents were feeling when things were not going well for their kids. I as well have sat in the stands and felt the same emotions that you feel with yours. We all have advice and it is based on our own experiences.
What some folks fail to realize when they first start posting on this site is we have all seen it before. We have all been there before. We know what it is like to feel like your son is not getting a fair shake only to see in the end it was a learning process and they are better for it. Or injuries , girl friends , bad decisions , bad luck , politics , wrong place at the wrong time etc etc. Then we have all had the experiences of the great game , great play , great at bat , great decisions , etc etc.
We share something in common that we all love. Our children and the game. We understand each other because we have all been right where you are at some point and time. And we know if we have not been there chances are we are going to sooner or later.
Humble folks. If your not you will be. The game of baseball will humble you and teach you. It will teach you to balance things out and put it into perspective. The most important thing that baseball can do for a young man is to teach him to remain humble and respect all those that have the guts to put themselves out there in the mix.
So when baseball folks "and thats what we are" see someone on here that doesnt get it - We know they dont get it. So we throw our advice on them and we are compelled to see that they do get it. Why? Because we were just like them at some point and time and someone took the time to see that we got it. Or our experiences in the game forced us to get it.
I hope you stick around Zacksdad. I hope that your son continues to progress in the game and has a great high school career. And I hope we all understand that you never have to worry about failing if you never try to succeed.
What some folks fail to realize when they first start posting on this site is we have all seen it before. We have all been there before. We know what it is like to feel like your son is not getting a fair shake only to see in the end it was a learning process and they are better for it. Or injuries , girl friends , bad decisions , bad luck , politics , wrong place at the wrong time etc etc. Then we have all had the experiences of the great game , great play , great at bat , great decisions , etc etc.
We share something in common that we all love. Our children and the game. We understand each other because we have all been right where you are at some point and time. And we know if we have not been there chances are we are going to sooner or later.
Humble folks. If your not you will be. The game of baseball will humble you and teach you. It will teach you to balance things out and put it into perspective. The most important thing that baseball can do for a young man is to teach him to remain humble and respect all those that have the guts to put themselves out there in the mix.
So when baseball folks "and thats what we are" see someone on here that doesnt get it - We know they dont get it. So we throw our advice on them and we are compelled to see that they do get it. Why? Because we were just like them at some point and time and someone took the time to see that we got it. Or our experiences in the game forced us to get it.
I hope you stick around Zacksdad. I hope that your son continues to progress in the game and has a great high school career. And I hope we all understand that you never have to worry about failing if you never try to succeed.
Great post Coach!!!