Take two: communication with the coach

I think it sucks and if you don't mind I am going to piggyback on your thread This holier than thou attitude that some coaches have is a joke. Whatever happened to open lines of communication, being a man and discussing things, etc. Instead it's "I'm the coach and not to be questioned".

What level are we talking about here?

I agree with Zacksdad,

I have had problems with coaches in the past. I made the mistake of addressing one of them a year ago or so and my son paid a dear price. Fortunately he retired after that year. But I still have problems with things that are beyond my control and although I wish I could address them, I am concious of what transpired the last time I attempted to ask a question of a coach.

It is a tough deal with no potential for a positive outcome. And, it does not matter if it is the player or the dad who addresses the coach. The results in either case can be devestating.

quote:

THE QUESTION: How do you feel about a coach having a closed door policy where players are forbidden to approach the coach under penalty of suspension or removal from the team?

You're kidding...(I know you're not)

This sounds like someone who can't handle any kind of conflict and deals with it by simply refusing to interact. I've seen these types at work. They don't last very long....Sounds pretty unenforceable. If you went to the AD and complained that you were kicked off for questioning the coach what would the AD do??? (I'm not talking about insubordination in front of the whole team. You should be able to say almost anything in private without repercussions.)

Our coach handed out a flyer at the beginning of the season that just said 'See me if you have a problem. If we can't resolve it we'll go to the AD. If we still can't resolve it we'll go to the principal. But SEE ME FIRST...' He seems to be open to any discussion, not that it does any good.

Truly unfortunate. My way or the highway has its place but it shouldn't be a 24/7 policy. Just a bit of advice, go back and re-read your OP, other than the flyin monkey tangent (they are/were scary!)there was support and compassion for your son's situation. He sounds well equipped to handle the Wiz, trust him.

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
What level are we talking about here?

high school

quote:

I have had problems with coaches in the past. I made the mistake of addressing one of them a year ago or so and my son paid a dear price.

I don't believe parents should approach coaches unless it's about physical or mental abuse. Another exception is travel plans for travel teams.

quote:

there was support and compassion for your son's situation.

I'm not looking for support. I have my opinion. I coach travel. I want the bench beating a path to me believing they can start and asking how to achieve it. My most rewarding situation as a coach when a player came to me with a personal problem that had nothing to do with baseball.

The situation presented the idea for a thread on how coaches handle communication and how parents perceive coaches to handle communication.

I can't imagine an AD or principle supporting a coach with that attitude if they knew about it. Sure am glad my son doesn't go to RJM Jr's school.

I understand a coach having a closed door policy with the parents as it relates to the team, playing time, line up, etc. But with the players? Someone needs to smack the coach up side the head (like, the AD).

An AD at a local HS once said in a parent meeting, "I've never known a coach at this school yet who didn't want to win and therefore wasn't trying to put his best team on the field." Most always, this is true I believe.

Coaches should allow communication, thats a given. Parents and players should pick their spots on when and how to communicate. That should be a given too.

I've seen a good share of both good and bad coaches. Even the good ones reach a point where yet more communication accomplishes nothing.

There's not enough information in this story for me or anyone else to place blame anywhere. I feel for RJM and his son...seems like we were once in a similar situation with a HS coach many years ago...however when I look back at it now, I don't see it as clear cut - i.e., coach's fault - as I did then.

In fact, there's a lot of things I see differently now than I did 5, 10, 25 years ago. Doesn't make me right now and wrong then...its just different.

Speak when spoken to. Don't ask me any questions. Sounds like a great policy if you want to turn off the kids to yourself and ultimately the baseball program. Seems like a recipe for failure.

Hopefully wiser heads will prevail and this coach will change his approach.

RJM,
It stinks, no doubt about it. But this decision by the coach is no different than any other decision(playing time, position, batting order, etc.). All coaches do things differently. He probably has a history of parental interference and he has decided to stop it cold turkey. The bad thing is he decided to do it with your son's team. I bet he will relax a little next year but you never know. All coaches are changing in their style as they go along.

Your choices:
1. Stay on the team and play your hiney off.
2. Quit.
3. Transfer.
4. Move back to Cali and play in one of the spring leagues and do travel only.
5. Go to the AD and try to get the coach fired or gutted of authority.

1 amd 3 are your only true options. If you pick 5, he will probably quit and you will have a coach who knows nothing. A fill in guy. And next year when the new coach is in place and some other parent is unhappy, here comes the axe. No coaches are perfect(but there are a few on this board who are pretty dang close) just play ball and ignore everything else. Or leave. The same choice that all of your travel parents have when they don't like your policies.

Whatever you decide, I will be willing to bet that your coaches policies will get better with time and experience.

Don't need advice. We know what the options are. Step one is tune it out and play.

It doesn't sound like a good situation. There must be more to it than what's being told here. I don't know a lot of high school coaches but do know a few. I haven't heard one of them say he wouldn't hear a kid out if he has something he wants to talk about.

RJM,
You do need some advice. You said the coach knows about this site and comes on here. I would recommend not posting any more on this subject and deleting what you have already done. It will not help your case if he reads it. I guarantee you that the only way I would address my son's coach on this, or any other forum, would be in glowing terms.
We love you coach!

A coach who won't communicate with his players has got issues.

Last year, my son got benched for the first half a game because he was told during the game about his "unexcused absense" by the asst coach.

The 'unexcused absence' was due to a college entrance exam the university scheduled up for him on gameday with a division rival. This was 2 weeks before that game on the schedule. My son said he was gonna try and reschedule the exams on an off-day which he did and notified the HC right away of the change which was about week before that game, he told the coach about the rescheduled test and reminded him again on the saturday before the wednesday game he won't be in school tuesday which means he misses one practice but would be at the game. The school attendence office had him out as an excused absence that day.

Come game day, he's not in the lineup and the asst. coach brings it up about missing practice about the 4th inning and my son reminded the asst coach he was there when he told the HC about the exams. Next inning my son was in the game. He never questioned it and stayed on the bench ready to play if they were gonna use him. The HC never said a word to my son about it. IMO, that was a lack of communication on the HC's part and my son told me "it's their loss if they're benching me even though I had a legitimate reason to be out of school". He never mentioned it again and was in the starting lineup by the 5th inning and the rest of the season.

My only involvement was I called the school attendance office (which I'm required by law to do)and told them my son would be out for the day to take the entrance exams, and was marked down as an excused absence.

I wasn't too thrilled that this was how the coach handled because the coach denied knowing about being out of school that day but I thought my son handled it right and I just left it at that, move on an never brought it up with him agsain because it was done and over with and he dealt with it.

What do you think of that? Did my son handle that right or was he wrong?

zombywoof - I think your son handled it beautifully...and you too!

RJM-sorry to hear-false accusations-I'd sue him-it's the American way.

Seriously it is terrible. Me personally, if I knew it was a false accusation, and this had something to do with my son's character (ie drugs, crime, ***, etc) I probably wouldn't say anything. I would kick the door down in his office and break his jaw-but I'm known to be hot headed.

Back to the question about the closed door policy. I think he should have to talk to your son and explain himself ESPECIALLY if they are truly false accusations and it had something to do with his character. But if this "closed door" policy is known, and especially if it is written, have him talk to the ad or the principle instead and go from there.

Incredible. Coaches benching players for being questioned-yet in another thread it is all but right out said-little things don't make a difference the best players will be on the field.

Good luck to you.

RJM - just a thought and not an accusation. Is there any way your kid is being punished for something you have done? Now THAT I have seen before. It's not pretty - and I don't have perspective on how to solve that problem.

I thought I remembered reading from you on another topic that you were the stat keeper for your hs team and there were parents that were complaining/arguing about the way you were keeping the stats or scoring the book on their kid. Something then about the way your son was scored, and comments went back and forth. Who knows what other parents have talked with the coach about regarding you - and this could be payback. Not at ALL a mature response by a coach - but could it be possible? I am just throwing out there that sometimes the kid pays the price. Again - you're not looking for advice - but you did make the post - so just offering an alternative perspective.

Like I said before "Cut the Cord"

Do you as a Parent need to know what the coach said are says to his player's.
Do you get that info from your son??

It's not your team.
There not your player's.
There's absolutely nothing as a parent that you need to know about.
Except what time does the game start.

JMO
EH

quote:

Originally posted by gamefan:
RJM - just a thought and not an accusation. Is there any way your kid is being punished for something you have done? Now THAT I have seen before. It's not pretty - and I don't have perspective on how to solve that problem.

I thought I remembered reading from you on another topic that you were the stat keeper for your hs team and there were parents that were complaining/arguing about the way you were keeping the stats or scoring the book on their kid. Something then about the way your son was scored, and comments went back and forth. Who knows what other parents have talked with the coach about regarding you - and this could be payback. Not at ALL a mature response by a coach - but could it be possible? I am just throwing out there that sometimes the kid pays the price. Again - you're not looking for advice - but you did make the post - so just offering an alternative perspective.

The thread is about asking coaching and parents how they feel about coaches communicating with players. What is done is done. There is no recourse. If he goes anywhere with the issue he'll be punished again. My son can like it or leave.

quote:

If he goes anywhere with the issue he'll be punished again. My son can like it or leave.

I understand this statement, And is kind of what I'm getting at with my posts.
Just keep playing hard, take care of the recruiting process during the summer and fall.
And play HS Ball for the 3 month's of the spring season.
It will be over and your son can start over with this coach next year.
EH

Total Joke. How can you coach if you cant communicate with your players and vice-versa? Leave the program.

interesting observation by Gamefan...I did not realize that RJM was a parent that was keeping the official book...that is an open invitation for trouble.

How many other High school teams have a dad of a player keeping the official book?

Maybe Gamefan is on to something here?

The topic of the thread is coaches and communication. I'm curious to see coaches and parent views on communication. I'm not looking for solutions to my son's situation. The solution for my son is play ball or quit. It's that simple.

You would be better off letting this situation with your sons HS coach go. If you continue to hang onto this you are going to be in for four years of misery. And chances are its going to spill over to your sons experience if it already hasnt started.

Regardless of what we think we already know you dont like it. And your the one that is in this situation. So no matter what we say your still going to be in the same situation.

Either let it go and let your son just play ball. Or continue to hang on to this and risk some serious BS. Do you still keep the score book for the varsity even though your son is not on the varsity? Do you miss his JV games or do you stay at the varsity games and keep the scorebook?

Another reason as a parent that you should stay out of all that kind of stuff including keeping the score book if your son is on the team.

I just read your last post. Teach the game. Coach them. Help them if they come to you about other things. Teach life lessons through the game. All of this takes communication.

But I dont see the need to constantly communicate with them about line ups , line up changes , batting order etc etc. Hey Jimmy is at 3B today and Paul your sitting out. Paul knows why he is sitting out and Jimmy is playing. If he doesnt he can come ask me and I will tell him what he already knows. But thats the end of it. Show me why I am wrong in practice and when you get a chance to play. I dont want to hear from you why I am wrong. But I am more than glad for you to show me I am.

Coaching policy and procedures are fine, even necessary in my opinion. However I too have my own policies and procedures in the way I live my life and what I'll accept. If HIS policies and procedures and MY polices and procedures differ, then I would evaluate the situation and act accordingly. Like Davy Crockett's motto "Be sure you're right, then go ahead", I strongly suggest one think it out before they communicate with a coach. There have been situations in the past where I talked to coaches including travel ball, high school, and college. As a retired business owner I always endorsed an open door policy. That allowed me to maintain control and was a great source of information to make business decisions. It was through my employees that I either succeeded or failed ---- as it is for a coach. They SHOULD communicate with their players and in certain instances they should communicate with the parents. When my son suffered a broken finger playing the last series of SEC games, the head coach called me and explained his plans going into post season and how that would effect my son. My son would be left behind because of roster limitations --- a simple 2 minute coach/parent phone call clarified everything.
There are no protocols here. Coaches would like to convince you there are protocols but their procedures are simply designed to isolate and protect them from his critics. The stronger the coach the more accessible he becomes ---- because no one person is a threat.
Fungo

SO I read the Oz thread and it made more sense.

From the past posts you've let on about the team...isn't the Coach a new coach (last couple of seasons?)

How has his record been? If I remember he took some heat for cutting thru some politics and BS in the very beginning...

Maybe he's under pressure from another angle.

For me it would all depend on what the issue is.

The policy we have at our school is, Come talk to us about anything you want, except playing time. We have a parent meeting at the beginning of the year to explain all of this and usually dont have many issues that come up during the year.

It seems today coaches spend a lot of time covering their rear when it comes to this subject. I know coaches who now have meetings to explain to the parents what is expected of their son and the do's and dont's. In my tenure i never had a meeting because I think it was understood. Players play coaches coach and parents did what parents do. However today it is so much different. sometimes I think that players feel they are entitled to things and if they dont get what they want mom and dad will get in the picture. Just the way it is.so I guess coaches have to deal with it. As a high school player(way back) i would be embarrased if my father would call the coach to discuss playing time or where I was batting or whatever. there is a fine line on both sides. I think coaches should use common sense when dealing with things. In my tenure I always felt that being fair with every player no matter where he fit in on the team. I had a rule. If you missed practice and you did not let me know you did not play. My starting ss missed practice on a saturday we had a game on monday. he did not play. He knew why he did not play and so did everybody else. N0 problem. Now if you make the rule and then change it you are toast.
Be fair be consistent and chances are things will be ok. If you try to please everybody you are in for trouble.

We had a situation last fall where I released our starting SS a couple of weekends into the season--knowing I was going to be bombarded with questions the following weekend we had a "meeting" where I explained why and what had happened--took away all the question atmosphere and we went from there and others kids got more playing time and enjoyed the season

As a coach you have to do what you have to do

yeah will we dont use alot of "rules"...people should know right from wrong...if you do wrong, probably going to get in trouble...bottom line. Also then we dont paint ourselves in a corner with...if you miss you dont play because i've had situations were a player would miss and when i heard what happened, i probably wouldnt have called either because sometimes other things are bigger than baseball

Fungo and TRhit you guys have it right. Communication is a good thing and goes a long way to fixing problems or even stopping them before they start.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
THE QUESTION: How do you feel about a coach having a closed door policy where players are forbidden to approach the coach under penalty of suspension or removal from the team?

If I was aware of the policy going in so be it. If it evolved during the season so be it.

This dilemma is one of those baseball paralleling life situations that make the game so wonderful. Your son has to deal with this for 3 mos. Maybe his HS career. You know there's nothing he/you can do. For the rest of his life more than likely he'll have to deal with tyranical bosses not to mention the irrational behavior from people who will try to inflict their will upon him. What better time to learn this lesson at 15. And to prepare himself for what lies ahead, so he'll have options and will be able say S***W YOU psycho. If and when the time comes.

quote:

THE QUESTION: How do you feel about a coach having a closed door policy where players are forbidden to approach the coach under penalty of suspension or removal from the team?

I simply do not believe the scenario. If a player calls/emails the coach to say: "I'm sick, and I won't be at practice/game today", no coach is going to suspend the player for that communication. What coach would suspend a player for "I've got a problem at home...Dad's been drinking, and last night he hit Mom. What should I do?" Or "I overheard some players from Washington, and it sounds like they have our signs."

No coach is going to suspend/cut a player for bringing up these subjects. The scenario I do find plausible is a coach forbidding any more discussions of playing time, spot in the batting order or position on the field, strategy/tactics, etc. I don't think that such a threat is an ideal method of coaching, but I do think that a coach shouldn't make out the lineup card based on which players are most effective in lobbying. Regardless of a coach's style of interaction, a player's unsolicited input on most aspects of running a team should be ignored.

I think most coaches are able to handle lobbying in a less preemptory manner, but I do know of one long time very successful coach who will allow one player-initiated conversation to discuss what the player "needs to work on", but won't tolerate a second one. Most players have heard of this policy through the grapevine, but if not, the coach will tell them at the conclusion of the one meeting. There's still plenty of communication going on, but neither the coach or the players waste time on lobbying attempts.

I am just reading some of these replies and I am just floored-everyone is hung up on the baseball aspect. And comments like just tell him to play or quit, etc I am just mesmorized. And I know RJM is not looking for this.

But I am really surprised that more parents on here aren't bringing up what the coach did. If it were false accusations, and they were bad enough to get RJM's son kicked off the team, most likely it would have to do with his character.

I raised Zack right and he doesn't mess up. It is just not acceptable. He is a great kid. Me as a parent, if the coach said to others "I heard Zack is doing drugs we are going to have to kick him off the team" I would have a big issue with this and I would address it.

RJM-has the coach apologized to your son?

zomby,
Sounds to me like the coach was following their policy but when the facts were brought out he corrected it right away. It is too bad he made a mistake but not a big deal.

RJM,
Simple answer then. Don't quit. The coach said something stupid. He isn't going to admit it. Store it away and go on. Next time he says something stupid just consider the source.

I know of a situation where a coach did something similar, though in this other case I believe it was more of a grey area. I only got one side of the story and reading between the lines I could see some justification for the coach's actions. He threatened to cut the player one time too many and the player left school early and has been a very successful player in college.