talking to players on other teams

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it.  I would be myself, but I am not necessarily a "Baseball Guy".  I find it refreshing that you would compliment the other players during the game. 

From an umpire's perspective, based on your description, your customary style seems consistent with sportsmanship standards. Different coaches have different styles. I have no problem with yours.

It seems a bit odd for a former subordinate to rebuke his former head coach for acting the way he saw you act for two years.

If it comes up again next time you play your former team, you could say something like, "I considered your suggestion, but I don't believe anything I said affected your players negatively, and I can't flip a switch and change my coaching style."

If he persists, you could say, "I hate to see you in the middle of a situation you didn't create. Perhaps your head coach should take it up with my head coach."

Best wishes,

Similar thoughts as Swamp... and I am a similar style coach.  If it were me and I missed the opportunity to do so at that point in time, I would call that coach back and say something like...

"I was thinking about what you said.  You know me.  I expressed nothing but positives to your players.  I can't change being that way on the field so I can only promise you that I would not say anything negative or with the intention to "get in their head".  You know me better than that.  You also know that I was their coach and I am not going to ignore them and pretend like I don't value the coach/player relationship we had and will continue to have.  They are too important to me. "

Then, let the rivalry begin 

You said you understand where he is coming from.  I don't.  Could you elaborate?  Did you ask him what it is that you said that was an issue?

I am HC and I coach 3b.  I am quick to applaud a great play by opposing D.  I will also occasionally engage in friendly banter with opposing 3b.  I always keep it complimentary or non-game related. I'd say most of our usual opposing coaches are the old school "stone cold" variety and wouldn't go there.  But they never had issue with me doing so.

I mostly said "i see where he is coming from" because I know this assistant coach is a very sensitive guy. I also get the impression that this new coach is pretty sour and maybe has some resentment towards me for whatever reason. Also, its a really small town mentality kind of thing. these arent kids that are playing summer ball and have several different coaches and stuff. Its a small town where someone (usually a parent, like this assistant) coach a group of kids from LL right up through HS. So they probably tend to get more attached to a coach and are not used to seeing their usual coach in different situations like this. also "seeing where someone is coming from" and agreeing with them are 2 different things. I do not agree with him. 

heres the message I just sent him:

Ive thought a lot about what you said the other day and i really feel like it came out of nowhere (or possibly from your new HC) and I am inclined to feel offended that you would suggest that i had any malicious intent. I very much value the hard work, experiences, and relationships that i built with those kids and harbor no ill will towards you or the team. I want to see them succeed. If anything, i was excited to see their growth and praise them. I made no negative comments at all. you coached with me last year. you saw me speak positively to several other teams and conduct myself that way throughout the year. you should know its a naturally occurring part of my style that will not change. to compromise my coaching style for you would be unethical. any comment that I made to your team is a comment i would make to any team. if you or the new HC have any additional concerns, feel free to reach out to me or my HC. Good luck this season. 

he got back to me with a "i never meant to imply you had any bad intentions...i just didn't think it was appropriate to make those comments about your observations in-game." (talking about what i consider to be everyday compliments, like a catcher who's pop time has improved significantly from last year.)

I replied stating that it is appropriate because it is an everyday part of my coaching philosophy. what would not be appropriate is altering my approach to suite his team. I finished with a "I hope you can respect where I'm coming from, whether we agree or not is a matter of philosophy...I'm confident that i represent my team in a consistent, sportsmanlike way every day. I've thought long and hard about it, and..don't expect me to change my approach to suit your team." 

...That oughta put it to bed. we threw our #3 and beat them 9-2 with 12K's, 1BB, and a 5 hitter. next time we play them is their final home game/senior night...we will probably have our ace steamroll them. 

-Z

Like my first wife said...."You can't change your nature".

Always be who you are.

When I was coaching first do you have any idea how bored i would have been if I didn't banter with the first basemen?  I was subbing at a school recently and a kid says hey weren't you the first base coach...remember we were talking the whole game. The kids from the other team like it too. That's baseball. It's what we do. The words pound sand come to mind for this guy. But I guess I would just tell him to coach his way and let you coach your way. Good luck - oh and by the way if you ever f&@$@$ tell me how to do my job again...  Sorry I digress!

haha! AMEN 2020!

I don't see where you did anything wrong. The other team has lost a lot of games. Losing tends to strip people of their sense of humor. I see it as the only thing to be aware.

I coached my sons teams from 5 years old thru 16U.  I was the same way, both in our "local" league games and travel.  If I was coaching first or third, I would compliment any good play...especially if it was the 1B or 3B who was standing right next to me.  in our local league, the opposing players knew me...and my son pretty well and would often talk to me between pitches or warmups between innings.  Never had anyone have any issue with it.  I think maybe the pressure of having a bad season made your situation a little different....I'll bet if it was the other way around and your old team was doing well and won the game that you'd never had heard a word.  I wouldn't worry about it

As a coach, I would see it as a teachable moment if anything. Talk with the kids about tuning things out, not getting nervous and staying confident if theres a player, coach, scout, girlfriend, family member, or whoever watching and commenting during the game. Harness that energy and use it to inspire and motivate you to rise to the occasion. He took a chance to teach his kids how to stand up to adversity and tried to make it about me not playing nice or something. its like... did you expect me to come here and help YOU win? I'm with a different team now, man. Keep an eye on your kids and don't worry so much about the other teams coaches. I couldn't imagine as a player complaining about, or getting frazzled by, the usual banter from a 1B coach, and Ive played a lot of 1B. and as a coach, I've got bigger things to worry about, unless the guy is legit mocking my player or something. 

In the moment, when he approached me, I just kind of gave a generic response like "i see what your saying," or something to that effect. I try to give a generic, open ended response in situations like that because I'm almost 100% that I wont give the right response if i answer in the moment. So I leave it open and give myself time to digest it before responding a day or so later. after our correspondence today, I think he knows where I stand and what to expect next time our teams meet, and why... whether he likes it or not. 

Hi Z,

I don't think you really know where he is coming from. I don't think he was saying this to you because he thought you had ill intent. I think he knows what is going on inside his dugout and how moral is.

When you coached the old team did they all respect and like you? How did the players take it when you said you where leaving? When you coached them (before they knew you where leaving) and you made one of your comments what was the players reaction? When you made that same comment to that same player at the last game was it the same? probably not.

While the assistant coach of your old team may have understood why you moved on they kids may still be adjusting to it, specially since the new coach may have a different style then you and hearing you banter at the game makes them realize what they lost.

My $.02

Catcher, 

Thanks for the perspective. Your provoking some good thought.

The entire time i was teaching/coaching at this other school, i was commuting about 55 miles each way every day. the job i have now is in the town i've been living in all along...a daily commute of about 3 blocks. also, the culture at that school has been rough for a while now. big drug and poverty problem in the area. and to boot, they just barely missed being shut down all together to consolidation last year. there was a mass exodus of teachers due to this. Those kids have seen a lot of teachers come and go due to the unstable environment. also that schools music program (im a music teacher) has always had a reputation as a 'starter job'- an easy place to get hired where you grunt it out for a couple years right out of college and then wait for a more stable community to open up. to top it off, they had cut our budget and axed the other music position, so my duties were essentially going to be doubled up on if i stayed there... no parents or community members ive spoken with have been surprised by my leaving, only supportive and understanding.

...So, although we grew close in my time there, the possibility of a teacher leaving is, unfortunately, always very real to those kids.

That stuff bleeds over into the sense of school pride and confidence (or lack of) that the students carry. its much deeper than any 1 coach or incident. I grew up there and taught there, so i knew what it was like and talked to my team a lot about it and how to keep their nose clean, not settle for less, not get caught up in the uncertainty, not take for granted what we have, even if its not a lot, look at the bright side...etc. One day, before prom, I marched them all down the hall where pics of graduating classes were posted, I found my class pic and volleyball championship pic and pointed out my best friend who had died in a drunk driving accident just after graduating. Talked about not taking things for granted and uncertainty in life, etc. made them all go home that night and tell their moms they love them, and promise us all they wouldn't do anything regrettable or dangerous on prom night...Thats coaching young men, not just baseball.

This new guy is from a nearby town and teaches at the school now, so I imagine he is pretty in touch with the plights of the community as well. But, he was a hotshot (D2 if i remember correct) college pitcher. he seems to be more caught up in coaching the game, not coaching young men at life... Just my observation so far. and yes, I'm sure at least some of those kids miss me and didn't like seeing me wearing other colors and throwing BP to another team. but, thats life, we should be preparing them for that. They have known all season that this was coming and emotions could be running high. And they as well as my assistant know my style and that i would be complimenting them if they make a good play.

I honestly didn't really notice any out of the ordinary or surprised looks from kids when i talked to them because, well, they know thats just how i coach, and i didnt make any negative comments or anything, so nothing to get mad at.

Probably what happened was the new HC saw it, didnt like it, and told them halfway through the game "hey, quit talking to that guy, hes trying to get into your head." thus pouring gas on the fire. 

Its tough, because at the end of the day, its the kids who lose out because of it all, and I hate to think that. But, I will not be made to think that I'm to blame just for doing my job (and doing it well, i feel) as I do any other day.  That just seems like misdirected frustration to me. and I will not be made to feel guilty for leaving that school and team because well, I have to have my life. at the end of the day, its not where my girlfriend and i want to live, its not where either of us wanted to work long term, and I'm only 27 years old. now is the time in my life to chase that better job, team, house, etc. before i find myself living a complacent life and then reaching retirement age full of regret, what if's, and missed opportunities....another important lesson the kids could learn from all of this. 

-Z

Hey man no offense but you are putting way too much thought into this.  You keep doing what you do and don't worry about what other people have to say unless it's your HC, AD, principal or an umpire.  You said this guy is sensitive and that's probably all that it is - he got mad that your team handed them another loss and he's pouting.  You said a couple of times the new HC was upset over what you were doing but unless you know that for a fact you need to stop saying anything about it.  You're projecting a negative attitude on him that you have no idea is true or not.  Yet you're on here (for a lack of a better word) defending yourself and your actions because you don't want anyone to think you're negative.  Unless you know for a fact the other HC feels that way don't project negativity on him.  You don't like it or feel you deserve it and he deserves the same respect until proven otherwise.

I'm the same way in I'll talk to anybody anywhere at any time.  I'm a talker and I'll recognize the other team when they make good plays but nobody but me and that kid will know it.  Last night my softball team got beat out in first round of playoffs.  The other team shortstop made two great plays in one inning.  After the inning was over I had to cross the field to get to the dugout and she had to cross to get to her dugout.  I timed it so we would go right beside each other and with my head down I said nice plays short and she said thanks without anyone knowing.  I don't do it that way because I'm afraid of what people may say or think but I don't want to draw attention to myself.  Tht kid - no matter which team it is - just did something great and I don't want to do anything that will take attention away from them even if it's positive.  They did the work, not me.  My assistant AD has always said (in football where we coached together) that by the end of the game the ref on our side and the white hat (main official that stands behind the offense) either love me or hate me based on my talking.  I'm hilarious (if they call a penalty against our team I'll yell out at the white hat that he's a good kid who goes to FCA and didn't mean to do it - which they usually laugh at) unless they have no sense of humor and those are the ones who hate me because they hate humor.

Don't worry about any of this.

Screw them. As long as you're comfortable with how you interact with kids you're good. 

I have a feeling your "banter" got in the coaches' heads a lot more than the kids heads. 

I talk to the third baseman more than my own kids in games sometimes. (Just because this year we couldn't hit so it was lonely at 3b!)