Beemax, thats why personal experience is so much more important than theory.
I really believe thats its very individual in how a batter focuses on the release point.
I have always taught what worked for me and similar to beemax's point of finding a spot on the pitcher. You are placing Broad Focus on an object thats not moving, until windup, and then Narrow Focus on the release point. Its very difficult to have Narrow Focus on any object for more than a couple of seconds for most people. Even though we can teach it, focus and ball/pitch recognition comes differently for each hitter IMO.
Coachric
You are so right with regard to experience and individuals
We find our method works for us---and our kids undertstand what we say to them--
One of our key hitters had a few back weekends and now is tearing the cover off the ball--even his outs are blistered--leaving this weekend from the park he says to me "Coach it isnt that hard when I listen to what you tell me. It is really fun now"---
It isnt always the talent it is the approach---
You are so right with regard to experience and individuals
We find our method works for us---and our kids undertstand what we say to them--
One of our key hitters had a few back weekends and now is tearing the cover off the ball--even his outs are blistered--leaving this weekend from the park he says to me "Coach it isnt that hard when I listen to what you tell me. It is really fun now"---
It isnt always the talent it is the approach---
Excellent thread!
I have noticed some hitters seem to dramatically turn their heads toward the pitcher and I am assuming this is to bring both eyes into proper vision as is being discussed. CoCo Crisp is one who does it from both sides of the plate and unfortunately for him, his results have not been so good. Jeff Larish is another one who comes to mind who does it. My question goes to an even more fundamental issue - confidence. Obviously, Crisp is lacking confidence at this point so all the vision tricks in the world may not help him. If a summer coach makes a suggestion that generates results as beemax suggests, was that the new focus technique learned or would the hitter go 3-4 that night anyways. We'll never know obviously but it may be more important for a hitter to believe something is working and have confidence in the result in spite of the actual technique itself.
I have noticed some hitters seem to dramatically turn their heads toward the pitcher and I am assuming this is to bring both eyes into proper vision as is being discussed. CoCo Crisp is one who does it from both sides of the plate and unfortunately for him, his results have not been so good. Jeff Larish is another one who comes to mind who does it. My question goes to an even more fundamental issue - confidence. Obviously, Crisp is lacking confidence at this point so all the vision tricks in the world may not help him. If a summer coach makes a suggestion that generates results as beemax suggests, was that the new focus technique learned or would the hitter go 3-4 that night anyways. We'll never know obviously but it may be more important for a hitter to believe something is working and have confidence in the result in spite of the actual technique itself.
Watch Griffey from the left side.
Always rolls his head over the top towards the pitcher, Chin down.
useing both eye's level, His heads not tilted.
Always rolls his head over the top towards the pitcher, Chin down.
useing both eye's level, His heads not tilted.
ClevelandDad,
Larish comes to mind for me too because I remember him doing that against us when he was at ASU. I think it is very important to focus on how many eyes you have on the ball. That may sound too simplistic, but if you think a hitter may not seeing the ball as wellas he should, have him close his right eye (if he is left handed) or left eye (if he is right handed) to see if he can still see the pitcher well. sometimes hitters will use only part of their vision in that eye without knowing it. Getting both eyes clearly on the ball without letting your nose get in the way is very important.
theEH,
Great example as well, Griffey always makes sure to get BOTH eyes directly on the ball. He doesn't look at it from an angle.
Larish comes to mind for me too because I remember him doing that against us when he was at ASU. I think it is very important to focus on how many eyes you have on the ball. That may sound too simplistic, but if you think a hitter may not seeing the ball as wellas he should, have him close his right eye (if he is left handed) or left eye (if he is right handed) to see if he can still see the pitcher well. sometimes hitters will use only part of their vision in that eye without knowing it. Getting both eyes clearly on the ball without letting your nose get in the way is very important.
theEH,
Great example as well, Griffey always makes sure to get BOTH eyes directly on the ball. He doesn't look at it from an angle.
Before “chameleon” was booted off (for the umpteenth time), he mentioned what IMO is a very important thing. He talked about teaching “feel”.
One thing that vision can do is increase the ability to feel. All the senses including sight and hearing can help players feel. I’m not sure if you can actually teach feel,, but you can teach things that will help. Timing is very much a “feel” thing. Proper vision can help timing.
I’ve always taught something similar to what beemax and coachric talk about, with some minor differences.
I think it was Bluedog who mentioned time. Think about this…
One minute can seem to fly by in a second or it can seem like several minutes. It all depends on what your mind determines. If you count it off… 1000-1, 1000-2,1000-3, etc it seems like a very long time. If you are focused in on something the minute flies by quickly. If we take it for granted that the above is true based on our own experience, wouldn’t it make sense that any period of time can be slowed down or sped up in our mind. Is it possible that .4 seconds can be slowed down or sped up in our mind?
Then I think it was Clevelanddad who asked if it was the technique or the confidence based on going 3 for 4 that was the reason for being sold on something. Good question, IMO those things are closely related. Can a high level of confidence cause a player to improve his feel? Yes of course! Can a high level of confidence cause a player to see the ball better? Yes IMO!
Can someone think too much? Yes IMO, especially once the pitcher starts his delivery. Who is the most relaxed hitter we see these days. To me it’s Manny Ramirez. I think that might be his greatest advantage over others and I do think it helps him see the ball better and increases his ability to “feel”!
BTW, Wish we could find a way to keep those who study hitting or pitching and add a lot of great stuff via words or video, from getting booted off this site.
One thing that vision can do is increase the ability to feel. All the senses including sight and hearing can help players feel. I’m not sure if you can actually teach feel,, but you can teach things that will help. Timing is very much a “feel” thing. Proper vision can help timing.
I’ve always taught something similar to what beemax and coachric talk about, with some minor differences.
I think it was Bluedog who mentioned time. Think about this…
One minute can seem to fly by in a second or it can seem like several minutes. It all depends on what your mind determines. If you count it off… 1000-1, 1000-2,1000-3, etc it seems like a very long time. If you are focused in on something the minute flies by quickly. If we take it for granted that the above is true based on our own experience, wouldn’t it make sense that any period of time can be slowed down or sped up in our mind. Is it possible that .4 seconds can be slowed down or sped up in our mind?
Then I think it was Clevelanddad who asked if it was the technique or the confidence based on going 3 for 4 that was the reason for being sold on something. Good question, IMO those things are closely related. Can a high level of confidence cause a player to improve his feel? Yes of course! Can a high level of confidence cause a player to see the ball better? Yes IMO!
Can someone think too much? Yes IMO, especially once the pitcher starts his delivery. Who is the most relaxed hitter we see these days. To me it’s Manny Ramirez. I think that might be his greatest advantage over others and I do think it helps him see the ball better and increases his ability to “feel”!
BTW, Wish we could find a way to keep those who study hitting or pitching and add a lot of great stuff via words or video, from getting booted off this site.
One Eyed Hitters
We see a lot of them in amateur baseball. Some who are actually good hitters against lower level talent.
There are very few one eyed hitters at the higher levels, but there are some who are one eyed hitters against certain types of pitching.
For example… The hitter who sees things with two eyes against H3/4 might not see, or see as well out of his back eye against a L3/4 or sidearm slot especially when the pitcher is throwing from the extreme side of the rubber creating a big angle.
This has been a reason some professional hitters go to a more open stance in order to handle the low ¾/sidearm types. They are tough enough to hit at that angle with two eyes, let alone one eye. And if they have a good slider, the one eyed guys are helpless.
We see a lot of them in amateur baseball. Some who are actually good hitters against lower level talent.
There are very few one eyed hitters at the higher levels, but there are some who are one eyed hitters against certain types of pitching.
For example… The hitter who sees things with two eyes against H3/4 might not see, or see as well out of his back eye against a L3/4 or sidearm slot especially when the pitcher is throwing from the extreme side of the rubber creating a big angle.
This has been a reason some professional hitters go to a more open stance in order to handle the low ¾/sidearm types. They are tough enough to hit at that angle with two eyes, let alone one eye. And if they have a good slider, the one eyed guys are helpless.
quote:One minute can seem to fly by in a second or it can seem like several minutes. It all depends on what your mind determines. If you count it off… 1000-1, 1000-2,1000-3, etc it seems like a very long time. If you are focused in on something the minute flies by quickly. If we take it for granted that the above is true based on our own experience, wouldn’t it make sense that any period of time can be slowed down or sped up in our mind. Is it possible that .4 seconds can be slowed down or sped up in our mind?
Interesting concept. How does one go about slowing time down? Learning to "decrease" ones focus? If focusing on something causes time to speed up, don't we in fact want time to slow down? The theory sounds great but not sure what the techiques may be for realizing the theory.
quote:Can someone think too much? Yes IMO, especially once the pitcher starts his delivery. Who is the most relaxed hitter we see these days. To me it’s Manny Ramirez. I think that might be his greatest advantage over others and I do think it helps him see the ball better and increases his ability to “feel”!
I agree about Manny. I also believe he is basically a simple person without a lot of clutter in his mind and that further helps him to concentrate in a relaxed manner.
keep the head level
http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/downtown/downtown3.htm
there are a few more articles by rick talking about eyesight
http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/downtown/downtown3.htm
there are a few more articles by rick talking about eyesight
quote:If focusing on something causes time to speed up, don't we in fact want time to slow down?
CD, Just the exact opposite. Focusing on time itself is what slows time down in our mind. The same thing can be true for focusing on distance, but that's another subject. Focusing on something else is what speeds time up.
This involves high level mind training techniques that are often used to compete at the highest level in other sports and activities. The mind is so powerful it can cause the seemingly impossible to actually happen.
I know!!! It sounds like I've gone off the deep end.
But I can give real life examples and believe it or not most all of us have experienced these things without recognizing them.If anyone wishes I'd get back to the real world... I'll shut up! I just don't live in the real world, it's too cut and dry.
quote:If anyone wishes I'd get back to the real world... I'll shut up! I just don't live in the real world, it's too cut and dry.
Please don't shut up!
PG - you have obviously thought about this. What techniques could a baseball player apply to dialate time in the manner you are suggesting (over several hundreths of a second)? Are you suggesting they borrow principles (mental approaches) from track & field or other sports? If you were 17 years old right now and had the same knowledge you do right now, what would you do to improve your hitting?
Sorry, can't seem to help myself when it comes to this topic.
Just something to think about
Most everyone in baseball claims it is absolutely impossible to see the ball hit the bat. That at a certain point you lose track (vision) of the ball. I believe this too, but I’m not as certain about this as most are, that it is impossible.
Anyway, Does every hitter see and track the ball exactly the same distance? IMO those who are able to track the longest have a distinct advantage over those who lose track earlier. (using common sense)
No matter what, it’s the early recognition that is the most important.
On a bunt of a 95 mph fastball… Does the hitter see the ball hit the bat?
If a hitter didn’t swing and simply stood in there and watched a 95 mph fastball, when would he lose sight of it? Is it “possible” to actually see it all the way into the catchers mitt?
Just something to think about
Most everyone in baseball claims it is absolutely impossible to see the ball hit the bat. That at a certain point you lose track (vision) of the ball. I believe this too, but I’m not as certain about this as most are, that it is impossible.
Anyway, Does every hitter see and track the ball exactly the same distance? IMO those who are able to track the longest have a distinct advantage over those who lose track earlier. (using common sense)
No matter what, it’s the early recognition that is the most important.
On a bunt of a 95 mph fastball… Does the hitter see the ball hit the bat?
If a hitter didn’t swing and simply stood in there and watched a 95 mph fastball, when would he lose sight of it? Is it “possible” to actually see it all the way into the catchers mitt?
PG, the last nanoseconds before impact in a car crash is the perfect example. Another one, I listen to a girl describe the last seconds before she hit the ground (Parking lot) when the chute of her parachute failed to open. It was amazing the clarity she described the incident as her body sped up and the images in her mind slowed down. That is until right at impact and as you all know with a severe concussion (she had one) you don't remember the impact. BTW, her last thought (that she could remember was, "God this is going to hurt. God please don't let me feel it."
As this applies to hitting. The trick then is to find a method of hitting that you are the most efficient with. When you've found your own personal philosophy that you support and practice or that your child does, then they can get about the business of becoming the most efficeint. When this happens, they find a "zone" where they are comfortable. I think we've all been there before. I always say that the ball looked so big. However, in thinking back, that wasn't true. It was that I was able to track the ball from start and then have the confidence or ability or... to let the ball travel and pick it up again and ... In all of this, I don't think that when I was hitting the ball good, that I ever stared at it. I kept adjusting the sightline until the swing. I know that several images of MLB hitters show that they are looking in an area at contact and not at the ball. I'm going to throw one final thought out there. When I thought I was seeing the ball so well, I also thought that I saw it come off of the bat. However, that image I now believe was seeing the ball as it reintered that space where my eyes were looking. (I don't want to say focused here because they weren't.) I believe that your eyes sent a message to the brain about the suspected trajectory of the ball and then the image I saw matched that image I precieved and so, I thought I saw it come off of the bat. (Boy does this sound crazy!)
As this applies to hitting. The trick then is to find a method of hitting that you are the most efficient with. When you've found your own personal philosophy that you support and practice or that your child does, then they can get about the business of becoming the most efficeint. When this happens, they find a "zone" where they are comfortable. I think we've all been there before. I always say that the ball looked so big. However, in thinking back, that wasn't true. It was that I was able to track the ball from start and then have the confidence or ability or... to let the ball travel and pick it up again and ... In all of this, I don't think that when I was hitting the ball good, that I ever stared at it. I kept adjusting the sightline until the swing. I know that several images of MLB hitters show that they are looking in an area at contact and not at the ball. I'm going to throw one final thought out there. When I thought I was seeing the ball so well, I also thought that I saw it come off of the bat. However, that image I now believe was seeing the ball as it reintered that space where my eyes were looking. (I don't want to say focused here because they weren't.) I believe that your eyes sent a message to the brain about the suspected trajectory of the ball and then the image I saw matched that image I precieved and so, I thought I saw it come off of the bat. (Boy does this sound crazy!)
Found the following thoughts on the Internet and they are related to what we are talking about here:
http://www.fulldisklosure.org/smfnew/index.php?topic=4691.0
quote:Rapid Perception - Slowing Time Down
Your spirit operates outside time and space. When there is an emergency where danger is about to approach you faster than you can normally sense, your spirit will compell you to act quickly without pondering. It directs you through your instinct and reflexes.
Think of a time when you moved out of harms way in an instant and the move was so spontaneously it seems that everything just flowed in the moment. Your awareness of what was happening and your response happened without hesistation, but so quickly that it was almost together at the same time.
That is because your spirit can observe things and sense reality beyond your ordinary rate and range of awareness. Imagine that a dagger is flying towards you from the side. In oridnary rate of awareness, there is simply not enough time to notice the dagger coming and to move out of the way. But in the realm of your spirit’s awareness, time is slowed down to a crawl and it can fully perceive everything that is happening no matter how quickly.
It sends the message to you and in that moment you experience the spontaneous and seemingly simultaneous knowing and action. The awareness comes just before the action but it seems that time slows almost to a standstill during that moment of thought. Perception and action become as one.
If you want to consciously perceive faster so that things don’t seem to happen so quickly, you have to slow time down in your consciousness. It is not time that slows down but you that slows down. See in your mind’s eye and memory things slowing down. Like a picture frame frozen from a movie in motion. It is the way you experience time slowing down or stopping when you see a beautiful person of your dreams.
It would be an advantage for anyone to stop the world or at least make everything appear to move in slow motion. It would give you time to analyze the situation and the actions of everyone and everything around you. It gives you extra time to determine your actions in a pressure situation. This would would be incredibly useful in business, driving your car in traffic, playing games, military combat, sports and life threatening situations.
Perceptive awareness is being fully alert and living fully in the moment. It is seeing the trees bend in the wind and the way the birds circle overhead. It is sensing how the trees feel and what problems and joy the birds are experiencing. It is experiencing the full moment around us and not just our little thoughts.
It is clearing the mind of future events and past replayed scenes, so you can experience the entirely of the current moment in time. It is putting yourself in the full frame picture now in front of you in relationship to everything happening around you. It is being fully alive. With that kind of perceptive awareness, a moment can seem to you to last forever.
A master baseball batter is apparently able to slow things down when he’s at the plate. To everyone else, the ball would be rocketing toward the plate at approximately 100 mph, almost faster than the eye can see. But to the focused athlete, the ball seems to slow down just for him, and present itself to him.
This is what many of the best batters have this in common. Somehow, when they need to slow things down to make their big play, they are able to perceive everything happening in slow motion. The ball rolls slowly up to the plate and is easy to see, often appearing larger than life. It’s almost as if the ball is waiting for them to hit it. To everyone else, the ball is racing to the plate at a blistering speed, curving, skinking, and breaking in waysthat make it almost impossible to track, let alone hit.
This is truly time manipulation, since the perception of the person who seems to manage this trick is that time has been stretched longer or made shorter. Since this is the perception of the magician, and becomes the way he acts upon the world, it becomes that person’s own functional reality. It’s really a consciousness shift and an expanded awareness. And yes, it is real magic as we will see.
When playing baseball as a batter, allow yourself to focus consciously on the location and speed of the ball. Clear your mind of all noise and clutter. Get unnecessary thoughts out of your head. Tune out all sound and distraction around you. Simply focus on the baseball being pitched to you. Focus your intent. Imagine hitting it squarely and watching it sail far through the air. Concentrate on your abdomen and visualize projecting energy from this “will center”.
You must want to hit the ball and will it to happen. See the ball big and bold. Fixate on the ball. See only the ball and focus your total intent and will on the ball. Did the ball appear to be moving slower than normal? If so, you are well on your way to becoming a master of time manipulation.
For most rapid perception, attention must be at its maximum focus on the area of the thing to be perceived. You must intend to see everything you can in that moment of looking. When you focus only on the thing you are looking at, things surrounding will move together in slow motion with it. To experience timelessness, you need to focus intently on the moment at hand. You cannot allow your mind to wander over events of the past or wallow in deep concern over the future. You must be in the present moment, fully alert and clear headed. In short, you must be totally involved in the “now”.
You must not fear but be calm and have a heightened state of awareness. Fear collapses time. You do not want to collapse time, you want to expand it. Awe is one of the feelings that expands time and slows it down. The opposite is true, things that move in slow motion likeness create a feeling of awe. Fear and awe are very similar and yet very different feelings. Fear causes you to be totally unseeing and blind to the action of the thing you are afraid of in the moment. Awe causes you to be totally seeing and taking in the fullness of what you are looking at.
Scientists have shown that mild anxiety can improve performance in some instances like a 100 meter dash, a musical performance, or even an exam. But for the most part, a full-blown autonomic response is not adaptive in most of these circumstances. These are classic instances of what the Taoists would call getting in your own way.
The ancient Eastern masters from various traditions such as Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, Zen, Sufi and many others recognized this feature of the human nervous system, and so found antidotes to it. These were awareness and equanimity. They cultivated a calm temperament through meditation and breathing exercises, which you can think of as strengthening the parasympathetic response.
As a result, the Eastern masters were able to develop a very strong and nearly imperturbable presence. Because they were not getting in their own way, in the face of danger they were pure action, maximally effective. This cultivation fed into a hyper-aware state of mind, which, interestingly enough, seems to block out emotion-based responses.
Empathic healers who tranfer energy to others in therapeutic touch reach a level of heightened alertness, which is classified as hyper beta brain activity. This is a state of “superalertness” similar to the keen alertness that Zen masters have been observed to reach in closed-eye meditations. In this state, the healer is acutely focused on one thought or activity, tuning out all peripheral distractions.
You can also heal or comfort yourself in this manner. In this heightened state of consciousness, you can focus on any area of pain or injury and send healing energy to that area in thought forms. Similary, you can use your hands to help or to heal, using your hands to project and conduct that healing energy.
A concentrated mind is not an attentive mind, but a mind that is in the state of awareness can concentrate. Consciousness or awareness is never exclusive, it includes everything. It is not a constricted concentration but a relaxed and free one. When you get into the calm and unperturbed state of mind of conscious awareness, you can perceive easily and nothing can happen too quickly for you. When you are able to slow time down in consciousness, you can use time as the ultimate weapon. Nothing can stop you but you can stop anything. Time is the ultimate illusion. All time is mental.
By using the principle of “it is not time that slows down but you that slows down”, you slow down your actions to slow down the rate of things moving around you in consciousness. Then once you have that increased rate of perception, you can start moving faster again with much greater control and effectiveness. This is the secret of slowing down in order to go faster. Do not hurry because hurry manifests fear and collapses time. Only when you are calm are you able to perceive things in slow motion.
Act as if you have all the time to do everything you want. Every time you slip up on an action or have a hesitation, it’s because you overlapped a proper sequence of things and it just cancels out in your mind. Maybe it’s because you were in a hurry. Your mind can only do one thing at a time, yet each may be done at the rate of microseconds, giving the illusion of many things at once. If you actually try to do many things at once, nothing happens. We’re referring to the conscious awareness here, although your subconscious can do many things simultaneously. It is your conscious awareness that uses rapid perception in order to slow time down.
Time is just an illusion, only consciousness is reality. Who is to say that only a certain amount of things can happen within one second and not more? There are times when people encounter life threatening situation and in the moment, their whole life passed in front of them. As their precious life hung in the balance, for one split second, they took stock of their life, including their loved ones, unfulfilled dreams and unrealized goals and made a momentous decision that saved them in virtually no time at all.
Maybe you experienced moments like this before. Everything seemed to slow down. Things seemed to appear in slow motion. You saw your loved ones and they seemed to be frozen in time. You considered logical arguments and argued them through the steps to completion. All of this takes a long time normally, but for this one instance when you are so sharply focused and alert, you play it all our in one magical moment, a moment that you seemed to control.
You can perceive things in slow motion and still let your thoughts and actions flow at the same speed. It is all relativity. To you, time around you slows down but to an outside observer, you become phenomenally precise and in control. When you are able to perceive faster, you can also respond faster and should allow yourself to do so.
Instead of slowing down time around you, you can speed up your own time instead. Use your mind to imagine yourself moving faster and too fast for others to handle. Think speed and you manifest speed. Speeding up you time does not mean you grow old faster. It means each second of your time becomes stretched and you can have increased rate of movement within it. Your time increases while other people’s time decreases. Those watching with normal rate of consciousness will see you moving like flashes of lightning with sudden bolts of speed.
The best ballplayers, it seems, have learned how to manipulate time whenever it suits them. Perhaps they do this without a great deal of thought or analysis, but they certainly employ all of the key factors of time magicians. They focus their intent, engage their will power, and energize their thought forms. This is personal magic. This is personal power. Everyone can do it. The superstars just do it more easily and more often than the rest of us. We say that they are gifted or superhuman. They are simply focused, intent and willful.
All champions have one thing in common, they have learned to sieze the moment. No matter what situation we are in, there is always a cubic centimeter of chance that appears in the moment for us to accomplish what we want. The trick is to be alert enough to seize the moment and then have enough personal power to execute the appropriate move at the appropriate instance. Impeccable warriors are fully alert and fully aware of the physical world.
Everybody knows that under normal conditions when heroics are not on the line, a person cannot pass a ball through a crowd to a selected teamate who scores, all in less than one second. Under normal circumstances, most people cannot even locate a person in a crowd in less than one second, let alone pass the ball to him. This demonstates over and over again the elasticity of time.
There’s a young swimmer who came out of nowhere at the end of a race to eclipse the field. She always found a way to win, and would “pick her spot” to “make her move.” Still, it seemed uncanny how she could close the big gap between herself and the race lader at the end, when you consider she had to swim nearly twice as fast as she had been swimming throughout the rest of the race.
It’s like the track sprinter who digs down at the end of the race to bolt like a cannon to victory at the end. To the observer, it looks as thought they are running against opponents who are moving in slow motion. How can somebody who’s been running at top speed suddenly double that speed at the end of a race, when they should be the most tired? It’s an obvious display of will power, focused intent, and energized thought power, whereby they conceive of miraculous victory and believe it is possible. And whatever our consciousness can conceive, the body can achieve.
Slow down only that which you want to, otherwise allow it to proceed at normal speed. Use rapid perception on whatever you want to, whenever you want to.
Sword masters and ninjas all use this “slowing time down” and “stopping the world” with the mind technique to accomplish amazing feats of lightning fast combat which normal perceiving people can hardly even comprehend how it is humanly possible for themselves to attempt.
We miss ourselves. We are so busy out there in our minds, in the mirror, on the phone, on the pc, listening to deafening music, overtaking, seeking power, status, labels. The boy racer feels alive, excited, when he is near a near death opportunity! Adrenalin pumping, over excited, showing off, seeking attention, seeking power, seeking approval, fearful. Fight or flight that we cannot see the signs. We make mistakes, we miss turnings, we lose or forget things. Because we lose the plot, we lose reign of our senses.
Only when there’s an accident, a car crash, a thump on the head, a slap in the face, a comment, a synchronistic moment, a glance from a beautiful person, song of a sweet bird, the rising or setting of the sun, a shooting star, ever renewing the rhythm of the waves do we stop for a second…time slows down…in awe, devotion, speechlessness, thoughtlessness, our ears perk up. We become aware of something here now. Something beautiful, fresh, sweet, pristine, shining, glowing, evervessant, ever fresh. Only at these times, are we awake, truly alive - during the skid / bang / crash - time slows down.
Mindfulness can be defined as knowing what is happening while it is happening, no matter what it is. The essence of meditation is training in mindfulness. It’s direct perception. We see through meditation, what the mind is doing, moment by moment. Why? Because we are training ourselves to become present. If we are present, we naturally bring our intelligence to bear on the moment. Therefore we have no option but to find out what is happening.
Meditation, then, involves being present with what is here. The observer consciousness allows you to fully observe what is happening internally as well. You notice thoughts and feelings as they arise and realize the causes. It is a self-reflective awareness where you know you are thinking when thinking happens. When you become mindful, you become more aware of things both within and without. The way to wisdom and intelligence is to understand ourselves as human beings. Not through a theory, not through a concept, but through direct experience.
When you are calm, you are clear seeing. You filter out a lot of noise that affects consciousness. To have a calm mind is to silence and still a lot of vibrations leaving perception to be free and unhindered. You get into the state of observer consciousness, where you are just watching what is going on and seeing it in every moment of its happening. Mindfulness is the systematic training in knowing what is happening, while it is happening.
As the mind becomes tranquil, many things begin to become clear. Things that were not formerly clear to us about ourselves, the world around us, the way we are living, relationships. We become clear about everything. So we need to generate within our minds the conditions for a prelimary mindfulness which is the essence of meditation. As tranquility arises we began gaining insight into the state of our own minds. Insight may arise naturally with tranquility. That is the traditional teaching. We train in tranquility and insight naturally arises.
Insight is the most profound level of learning. It is learning through direct perception which naturally gives rise to understanding. It is not learning through externally acquired information, something imported from outside. It leads to wisdom because it is learning inwardly how we are and what we are as human beings. When your meditation becomes really powerful, it also becomes constant. Life offers many challenges and the serious meditator is very seldom
http://www.fulldisklosure.org/smfnew/index.php?topic=4691.0
CD,
I actually wrote a manual on something that included some of this stuff. Problem is we sold all but one copy many years ago. Some of what was in it seemed stupid years later so we never republished it.
Too answer your question... When chameleon mentioned "feel" my eyes lit up. While everyone was always arguing mechanics (which is vitally important) Richard had started to figure it out. We can study the techniques of MLB hitters till the cows come home and it still won't make (by itself) someone a great hitter. We can say see the ball... hit the ball, but that surely doesn't work for everybody. We can say it's all natural ability, but we know hitters can improve their natural ability.
The single most important part of hitting involves the "feel" that chameleon mentioned. And IMO that feel is not a physical thing. You mentioned confidence which is vital. I don't want to brag, but I'm a master at making players confident. And yes it can be done by fooling them and tricking them into believing they can do something they didn't know they could do. BTW, no web sites or anything to sell.
I'm not sure what I'd do if I were 17 and knew what I know now. I had a lot of confidence when I was 17 and thought I was a great hitter. You could say, I had already started to fool myself and it was working. I just couldn't fool myself into becoming a decent student or a non-trouble maker.
I actually wrote a manual on something that included some of this stuff. Problem is we sold all but one copy many years ago. Some of what was in it seemed stupid years later so we never republished it.
Too answer your question... When chameleon mentioned "feel" my eyes lit up. While everyone was always arguing mechanics (which is vitally important) Richard had started to figure it out. We can study the techniques of MLB hitters till the cows come home and it still won't make (by itself) someone a great hitter. We can say see the ball... hit the ball, but that surely doesn't work for everybody. We can say it's all natural ability, but we know hitters can improve their natural ability.
The single most important part of hitting involves the "feel" that chameleon mentioned. And IMO that feel is not a physical thing. You mentioned confidence which is vital. I don't want to brag, but I'm a master at making players confident. And yes it can be done by fooling them and tricking them into believing they can do something they didn't know they could do. BTW, no web sites or anything to sell.
I'm not sure what I'd do if I were 17 and knew what I know now. I had a lot of confidence when I was 17 and thought I was a great hitter. You could say, I had already started to fool myself and it was working. I just couldn't fool myself into becoming a decent student or a non-trouble maker.
I'm not sure if the mind slows down or speeds up to make the object appear to slow down, but it most definitly happens and can be learned. It is what speed reading is based on. Pure concentration also makes an object appear to slow down. When someone is "in the zone" everything seems to slow down. Get all thoughts out of your mind except the thing you want to see and it will appear slower. Relaxation, Transcendental meditation, controlled breathing, visualization, all can help to see the ball more clearly.
I believe our brains run similar to computers in that, the less information being processed the faster it will work.
I believe I see the ball hit the bat and always did believe that. I thought everyone did until I heard Terry Kennedy say in a hitting video that the scientists say it's impossible to do. Well, I can remember when I was a kid the scientists said a ball couldn't curve too! Well, we've all been in a batter's box and the thing breaks! Now, can the mind process the incoming and out going that quickly....that's another story. To me, if you can see a bunt hit the bat, you can see a line drive hit the bat too. You have to be tracking the ball to contact to hit a breaking ball....don't you???
I teach my hitters to do what I used to do. I would subtract pieces from my surroundings starting when I was in the hole (when possible) or as I started out of the dugout. Anything behind me went first, then in front but not on the field. As I got to the on deck circle, I could only see what was between the lines. When I got to the batters' box (but not in) I only saw the Pitcher. Once I got into the box I tried to look at his face, but I would blurr it (couldn't see his features). As his face turned, I moved over to release point. When I was "into the game" it was much easier to do. When I was hitting the ball well, I didn't care what he was throwing or what the count was, I KNEW I was going to hit it!
I believe our brains run similar to computers in that, the less information being processed the faster it will work.
I believe I see the ball hit the bat and always did believe that. I thought everyone did until I heard Terry Kennedy say in a hitting video that the scientists say it's impossible to do. Well, I can remember when I was a kid the scientists said a ball couldn't curve too! Well, we've all been in a batter's box and the thing breaks! Now, can the mind process the incoming and out going that quickly....that's another story. To me, if you can see a bunt hit the bat, you can see a line drive hit the bat too. You have to be tracking the ball to contact to hit a breaking ball....don't you???
I teach my hitters to do what I used to do. I would subtract pieces from my surroundings starting when I was in the hole (when possible) or as I started out of the dugout. Anything behind me went first, then in front but not on the field. As I got to the on deck circle, I could only see what was between the lines. When I got to the batters' box (but not in) I only saw the Pitcher. Once I got into the box I tried to look at his face, but I would blurr it (couldn't see his features). As his face turned, I moved over to release point. When I was "into the game" it was much easier to do. When I was hitting the ball well, I didn't care what he was throwing or what the count was, I KNEW I was going to hit it!
Very, very interesting thread.
There is actually a lot of detailed neurological science on vision that relates directly to this topic.
I've personally been interested for several years now why it is, for example, that good hitters can reliably make contact with a 90+ mph fastball but look foolish hacking away at a 65-70 mph knuckleball. What's more, a typical catcher, who will have just called for the knuckler, will nevertheless sometimes be completely unable to catch it. For examples, check out Jason Varitek trying helplessly to catch Tim Wakefield in the 2004 ALCS videos.
The only obvious explanation for this lies within the neurobiology of vision. It turns out that people have done lots of careful experiments that show there is a minimum time required for the brain to process new signals coming from the retina and it's longer than most people think--about 0.1 seconds, and that's just the minimum time for recognition of new objects. So, when some fast object comes at you from far away, but it has an erratic unpredictable trajectory, there's nothing your brain can do about that--the ball is literally invisible to your brain for 0.1 seconds.
For a 90 mph fastball that 0.1 seconds would mean 13 feet of literal invisibility...so how can anyone hit that? That is an easier problem for the brain to solve because you have trained it by watching the early trajectory of many hundreds or thousands of fastballs. Some people think your brain can create templates that are called up very quickly and used to predict the behavior of fast-moving objects based on past experience.
On the other hand, no one (except maybe Wakefield's personal catcher, whom the Red Sox quickly reacquired from the Padres after realizing their other catchers could not do the job) has a reliable set of templates that predict the path of a good knuckleball based on the part of its trajectory that can actually be seen and processed in the noggin.
There is actually a lot of detailed neurological science on vision that relates directly to this topic.
I've personally been interested for several years now why it is, for example, that good hitters can reliably make contact with a 90+ mph fastball but look foolish hacking away at a 65-70 mph knuckleball. What's more, a typical catcher, who will have just called for the knuckler, will nevertheless sometimes be completely unable to catch it. For examples, check out Jason Varitek trying helplessly to catch Tim Wakefield in the 2004 ALCS videos.
The only obvious explanation for this lies within the neurobiology of vision. It turns out that people have done lots of careful experiments that show there is a minimum time required for the brain to process new signals coming from the retina and it's longer than most people think--about 0.1 seconds, and that's just the minimum time for recognition of new objects. So, when some fast object comes at you from far away, but it has an erratic unpredictable trajectory, there's nothing your brain can do about that--the ball is literally invisible to your brain for 0.1 seconds.
For a 90 mph fastball that 0.1 seconds would mean 13 feet of literal invisibility...so how can anyone hit that? That is an easier problem for the brain to solve because you have trained it by watching the early trajectory of many hundreds or thousands of fastballs. Some people think your brain can create templates that are called up very quickly and used to predict the behavior of fast-moving objects based on past experience.
On the other hand, no one (except maybe Wakefield's personal catcher, whom the Red Sox quickly reacquired from the Padres after realizing their other catchers could not do the job) has a reliable set of templates that predict the path of a good knuckleball based on the part of its trajectory that can actually be seen and processed in the noggin.
mic, Good thoughts!
I do think that last (whatever distance the ball travels to the bat) even if you could see the ball it wouldn't be much help because your swing has already been programed and can no longer adjust.
However, what is of possible importance is if you did really see the ball all the way to the bat, it is likely you saw it much better at that point of establishing your swing path to the ball and even before that.
I do think that last (whatever distance the ball travels to the bat) even if you could see the ball it wouldn't be much help because your swing has already been programed and can no longer adjust.
However, what is of possible importance is if you did really see the ball all the way to the bat, it is likely you saw it much better at that point of establishing your swing path to the ball and even before that.
micmeister,
Don't lay responsibility for that "scientists said the curveball doesn't curve" story on the shoulders of modern scientists.
That study, and it's interpretation, was carried out by a popular magazine back in the day for one main reason: To foment controversy and sell more magazines.
Yes, they got somebody to say "the curveball doesn't curve and our pictures prove it". But the joke is, anyone with a little sense and a rudimentary understanding of the limitations of the experiment can look at the same pictures and conclude, "yes, the curveball obviously curves--it is a smooth arc, not a sudden break as batters see it from their unique perspective, but curves clearly curve and that stupid magazine article was pretty quickly refuted.
You can see the ball hit the bat only if you happen to be looking at the exact point of contact and wait for 0.1 seconds. But, that is not how hitting is actually done...
Don't lay responsibility for that "scientists said the curveball doesn't curve" story on the shoulders of modern scientists.
That study, and it's interpretation, was carried out by a popular magazine back in the day for one main reason: To foment controversy and sell more magazines.
Yes, they got somebody to say "the curveball doesn't curve and our pictures prove it". But the joke is, anyone with a little sense and a rudimentary understanding of the limitations of the experiment can look at the same pictures and conclude, "yes, the curveball obviously curves--it is a smooth arc, not a sudden break as batters see it from their unique perspective, but curves clearly curve and that stupid magazine article was pretty quickly refuted.
You can see the ball hit the bat only if you happen to be looking at the exact point of contact and wait for 0.1 seconds. But, that is not how hitting is actually done...
laflippin,
Good stuff! Are you sure it's .1 second? that actually seems too long a period. Could it be something like .01 seconds? Wouldn't that also mean a hitter would not be able to register anything until the ball was 13 feet out of the pitchers hands. Not sure I understood that part.
More to think about...
If you drive down the hiway 90 mph (Not recommended) and you see a reflector on the side of the road or even on the road, it is easy to track right until you pass it. Why is this different (visually) than if the car was standing still and the relector was coming at it 90 mph?
Good stuff! Are you sure it's .1 second? that actually seems too long a period. Could it be something like .01 seconds? Wouldn't that also mean a hitter would not be able to register anything until the ball was 13 feet out of the pitchers hands. Not sure I understood that part.
More to think about...
If you drive down the hiway 90 mph (Not recommended) and you see a reflector on the side of the road or even on the road, it is easy to track right until you pass it. Why is this different (visually) than if the car was standing still and the relector was coming at it 90 mph?
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
More to think about...
If you drive down the hiway 90 mph (Not recommended) and you see a reflector on the side of the road or even on the road, it is easy to track right until you pass it. Why is this different (visually) than if the car was standing still and the relector was coming at it 90 mph?
Thats an interesting model.
On the surface, I would think you can track the relector much earlier while approaching it. You get a fix on it. The path registers earlier, and is tracked.
Waiting for it to appear coming at you seems to warrant less time to process its path?
Interesting
quote:If you drive down the hiway 90 mph (Not recommended) and you see a reflector on the side of the road or even on the road, it is easy to track right until you pass it. Why is this different (visually) than if the car was standing still and the relector was coming at it 90 mph?
This one seems easier to answer. Now we are talking about the differences between velocity and acceleration. Accelerartion is actually the problem for the hitter and not necessarily the velocity. When you are riding in a car, the velocity is constant at 90mph and thus the acceleration is 0 since accelleration is the change in velocity. I contend if you could accelerate the car as fast as a pitcher can accelerate a baseball, then you would have trouble tracking the reflector as well. Think about the poor hitter and what a difficult job that is. An object accelerates from 0 to 90mph in the span of 60'-6". It almost is not fair
I think that makes sense.
The ball actually reaches 90 mph right there on the mound and decelerates over the 60 feet. Still not fair!
The ball actually reaches 90 mph right there on the mound and decelerates over the 60 feet. Still not fair!
PGStaff,
Well, perception is continuous not discontinuous. Basically, for new and completely unexpected images we appear to be living about 0.1 second in the past because of the basic limitations of the structure of the visual cortex.
During the continuous perceptual stream if we recognize an old familiar pattern, the brain can apparently use historical information to create a visual prediction. So things don't ever really look discontinuous, unless they happen so fast, and so unpredictably, that the new information cannot be processed before the object of interest literally hits you.
By the way, that "filling-in of the gaps" in our perception of reality is why many optical illusions work the way they do. The brain can rather easily be tricked into "filling in" data where none exists.
This is an extremely interesting topic for baseball because visual training, reps of looking at certain types of pitches over and over in BP stretched out over the years, does seem to provide experiential templates for hitters to use.
Regardless of my exact vision characteristics, whether it's 20-20, 20-10, or what-have-you, I very much doubt that a 98 mph fastball would look the same to me as it does to Albert Pujols. I think Pujols' experience actually lets him reliably see the future by means of an image composed from all of the past examples of 98 mph fastballs he's seen in the past.
Again, though, Pujols can't hit a good 65 mph knuckleball any better than anyone else does. I don't think this is just a matter of "his timing being thrown off". When they are "on", knuckleballers can pitch entire games throwing 65 mph knucklers almost exclusively. If it were only a matter of hitters' swing timing, they could adjust over a few at-bats. You'll never see a pitcher make it through an inning of MLB baseball with a 75 mph FB, a 60 mph splitter, and a 55 mph curveball. Those would be timing challenges, too, but the trajectories are no problem and so the hitters would of course adjust quickly.
Well, perception is continuous not discontinuous. Basically, for new and completely unexpected images we appear to be living about 0.1 second in the past because of the basic limitations of the structure of the visual cortex.
During the continuous perceptual stream if we recognize an old familiar pattern, the brain can apparently use historical information to create a visual prediction. So things don't ever really look discontinuous, unless they happen so fast, and so unpredictably, that the new information cannot be processed before the object of interest literally hits you.
By the way, that "filling-in of the gaps" in our perception of reality is why many optical illusions work the way they do. The brain can rather easily be tricked into "filling in" data where none exists.
This is an extremely interesting topic for baseball because visual training, reps of looking at certain types of pitches over and over in BP stretched out over the years, does seem to provide experiential templates for hitters to use.
Regardless of my exact vision characteristics, whether it's 20-20, 20-10, or what-have-you, I very much doubt that a 98 mph fastball would look the same to me as it does to Albert Pujols. I think Pujols' experience actually lets him reliably see the future by means of an image composed from all of the past examples of 98 mph fastballs he's seen in the past.
Again, though, Pujols can't hit a good 65 mph knuckleball any better than anyone else does. I don't think this is just a matter of "his timing being thrown off". When they are "on", knuckleballers can pitch entire games throwing 65 mph knucklers almost exclusively. If it were only a matter of hitters' swing timing, they could adjust over a few at-bats. You'll never see a pitcher make it through an inning of MLB baseball with a 75 mph FB, a 60 mph splitter, and a 55 mph curveball. Those would be timing challenges, too, but the trajectories are no problem and so the hitters would of course adjust quickly.
This is the most interesting thread I've seen here on the HSBBW. Thanks to PG for starting it!
I have nothing smart to add really. Just wanted to tell you all how relieved I am to find that there are others who ponder this stuff like I do.
Being a non-baseabll playing mom, my input to my son is often met with polite indifference. I remember telling him, when he was quite young, to "get his head on level", because it seemed obvious to me that he'd see the ball better with eyes straight, and as equi-distant as possible in relation to the pitcher. As someone mentioned earlier, Coco Crisp appears to take this approach --and looks pretty odd doing it as he locks his head into what seems to be an imaginary groove in his shoulder. Unfortunately, it hasn't been working for him. But he also looks tense up there. No "relaxed mouth" at all.
My son did a one day clinic last winter, where the coach had some "vision training" software. Son said it was "really cool", "like weight training for the eyes". Also said it was available to buy on-line, for some outrageous price. (Sorry kiddo.)
Keep writing and sharing. This is good stuff.
I have nothing smart to add really. Just wanted to tell you all how relieved I am to find that there are others who ponder this stuff like I do.
Being a non-baseabll playing mom, my input to my son is often met with polite indifference. I remember telling him, when he was quite young, to "get his head on level", because it seemed obvious to me that he'd see the ball better with eyes straight, and as equi-distant as possible in relation to the pitcher. As someone mentioned earlier, Coco Crisp appears to take this approach --and looks pretty odd doing it as he locks his head into what seems to be an imaginary groove in his shoulder. Unfortunately, it hasn't been working for him. But he also looks tense up there. No "relaxed mouth" at all.
My son did a one day clinic last winter, where the coach had some "vision training" software. Son said it was "really cool", "like weight training for the eyes". Also said it was available to buy on-line, for some outrageous price. (Sorry kiddo.)
Keep writing and sharing. This is good stuff.
http://www.livescience.com/health/060420_baseball_perception.html
Ken Fuld, a baseball enthusiast and visual psychophysicist at the University of New Hampshire, has pored over numerous baseball studies and suggests that neither of these approaches produce optimal results.
Instead, much to your coach's chagrin, you should try mimicking the quirks of the best Major League players.
Major League heat
At the Major League level, pitchers sling fastballs between 90 and 100 mph and sometimes a tweak faster. The ball moves far too swiftly for a batter to watch for its entire journey to home plate.
"In the last few feet before the plate, the ball reaches an angular velocity that exceeds the ability of the eye to track the ball," Fuld told LiveScience. "The best hitters can track the ball to within 5 or 6 feet of the plate."
Sometimes players will abandon eye contact mid-way through the pitch and move their line of sight to where they anticipate the ball will cross the plate. Batters often "take" the first couple pitches of an "at bat" in this manner to try and calibrate the movement and speed of a pitcher's offerings.
Killer curve
But a hitter is at the mercy of what the pitch does in those last few feet. That's when their eyes have left the ball and a nasty 12-to-6 curveball--a pitch named after the face of a clock and which drops top to bottom--can make even the best hitters swing out of their shoes. The pitch looks innocent enough, but during the instant the hitter is blind to the ball, a good curveball will have dropped a foot or more, and the batter will likely swing over the pitch.
Because of its straight trajectory, many hitters have an easier time hitting a four-seam, 100-mph fastball than a lively curveball. Forkballs, sinkers, and split-fingered fastballs, all of which have tough-to-judge spin and dart around the strike zone, are similarly tough to hit.
On the flipside are knuckleballs. Even though they're slow-moving and have little to no spin, they flutter erratically, making them one of the most difficult pitches to connect with. As legendary hitting coach Charlie Lau once said, "There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball. Unfortunately, neither of them works."
The myth of the rising fastball
Fuld has pondered other aspects of hitting that will interest any fan.
When a hitter swings under the ball and misses, baseball announcers sometimes say the pitcher got him with a "rising fastball." But technically, this pitch cannot exist if thrown overhand--it's impossible for a pitch thrown downward to buck gravity and achieve upward lift.
The rising fastball deceives the hitter in almost the opposite way a good curve does. A 90-mph fastball will drop significantly less than one thrown at 80 mph. So instead of dropping a few inches in the last few feet, a fastball with some serious zip will maintain a nearly straight trajectory.
"If he thinks it's an 80-mph fastball, but it's really 90 mph, since it didn't drop it will appear to rise in that last instant," Fuld said. "It looks like it hops up, and that's the illusion of a rising fastball."
See the ball, catch the ball
Perceptions mess with minds in the field, too.
Any pro would tell you that the hardest ball to catch is a line drive smoked right at them. Sure, there's the fear that it might put a dent in your forehead, but it's the lack of visual information that makes the ball difficult to judge.
When a ball is hit to the left or right of a fielder, the player can observe the ball's velocity, acceleration, and angle to figure out where it might land. Some people might consider baseball players to be dumb jocks, but they're constantly doing geometry on the fly.
"Good players do not run to a place where the ball will land and then wait for it, but rather catch the ball while running," Fuld said. "This is contrary to what many coaches prescribe, which is to 'get under the ball and not drift on it.'"
When the ball is hit directly at a player, the most of the available visual information is in the form of angular velocity, the rate at which the ball appears to enlarge as it approaches. But a lack of linear velocity makes it difficult to determine the ball's path or how long it will take to get there.
So the next time you see a player taking a lazy, jogging approach to catch a fly ball, you should praise him for his math skills rather than blasting him for not hustling.
Assuming he catches it, of course.
Ken Fuld, a baseball enthusiast and visual psychophysicist at the University of New Hampshire, has pored over numerous baseball studies and suggests that neither of these approaches produce optimal results.
Instead, much to your coach's chagrin, you should try mimicking the quirks of the best Major League players.
Major League heat
At the Major League level, pitchers sling fastballs between 90 and 100 mph and sometimes a tweak faster. The ball moves far too swiftly for a batter to watch for its entire journey to home plate.
"In the last few feet before the plate, the ball reaches an angular velocity that exceeds the ability of the eye to track the ball," Fuld told LiveScience. "The best hitters can track the ball to within 5 or 6 feet of the plate."
Sometimes players will abandon eye contact mid-way through the pitch and move their line of sight to where they anticipate the ball will cross the plate. Batters often "take" the first couple pitches of an "at bat" in this manner to try and calibrate the movement and speed of a pitcher's offerings.
Killer curve
But a hitter is at the mercy of what the pitch does in those last few feet. That's when their eyes have left the ball and a nasty 12-to-6 curveball--a pitch named after the face of a clock and which drops top to bottom--can make even the best hitters swing out of their shoes. The pitch looks innocent enough, but during the instant the hitter is blind to the ball, a good curveball will have dropped a foot or more, and the batter will likely swing over the pitch.
Because of its straight trajectory, many hitters have an easier time hitting a four-seam, 100-mph fastball than a lively curveball. Forkballs, sinkers, and split-fingered fastballs, all of which have tough-to-judge spin and dart around the strike zone, are similarly tough to hit.
On the flipside are knuckleballs. Even though they're slow-moving and have little to no spin, they flutter erratically, making them one of the most difficult pitches to connect with. As legendary hitting coach Charlie Lau once said, "There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball. Unfortunately, neither of them works."
The myth of the rising fastball
Fuld has pondered other aspects of hitting that will interest any fan.
When a hitter swings under the ball and misses, baseball announcers sometimes say the pitcher got him with a "rising fastball." But technically, this pitch cannot exist if thrown overhand--it's impossible for a pitch thrown downward to buck gravity and achieve upward lift.
The rising fastball deceives the hitter in almost the opposite way a good curve does. A 90-mph fastball will drop significantly less than one thrown at 80 mph. So instead of dropping a few inches in the last few feet, a fastball with some serious zip will maintain a nearly straight trajectory.
"If he thinks it's an 80-mph fastball, but it's really 90 mph, since it didn't drop it will appear to rise in that last instant," Fuld said. "It looks like it hops up, and that's the illusion of a rising fastball."
See the ball, catch the ball
Perceptions mess with minds in the field, too.
Any pro would tell you that the hardest ball to catch is a line drive smoked right at them. Sure, there's the fear that it might put a dent in your forehead, but it's the lack of visual information that makes the ball difficult to judge.
When a ball is hit to the left or right of a fielder, the player can observe the ball's velocity, acceleration, and angle to figure out where it might land. Some people might consider baseball players to be dumb jocks, but they're constantly doing geometry on the fly.
"Good players do not run to a place where the ball will land and then wait for it, but rather catch the ball while running," Fuld said. "This is contrary to what many coaches prescribe, which is to 'get under the ball and not drift on it.'"
When the ball is hit directly at a player, the most of the available visual information is in the form of angular velocity, the rate at which the ball appears to enlarge as it approaches. But a lack of linear velocity makes it difficult to determine the ball's path or how long it will take to get there.
So the next time you see a player taking a lazy, jogging approach to catch a fly ball, you should praise him for his math skills rather than blasting him for not hustling.
Assuming he catches it, of course.
quote:You'll never see a pitcher make it through an inning of MLB baseball with a 75 mph FB, a 60 mph splitter, and a 55 mph curveball.
Jamie Moyer fits this profile
Seriously, laflippin - welcome to the hsbbweb! Your input to this topic has been most appreciated. Simply an excellent topic PG.
I like your ideas about using past templates as that makes sense to me. The one major league hitter I have ever gotten to ask questions to told me he believed good hitting was about good guessing. Why do they always say get yourself into a hitters count? So you can predict a fast ball? Theoretically a fastball should be hardest to hit but hitters operate best when they have an idea it is coming. I think hitting a baseball is so mysterious that there may be thousands of factors involved. Nobody can explain to me why A-Rod has struggled over the past three post seasons but he has. There is something in his mind holding him back imho.
Emeraldvlly,
You’re welcome.
I’ve always been interested in things I don’t know enough about. Vision is one of those things and there are many non baseball people who might know much more than the baseball experts when it comes to the subject. Including some moms!
Here is what fascinates me the most…
The swing is something you can see, video tape, photograph and evaluate or judge. Same for how well someone throws, runs, fields, etc.
But one thing that no instructor or scout can ever fully evaluate is… what does that hitter actually see! Can the hitter even completely describe it? Not sure we even know that any two hitters see exactly the same thing. Maybe it’s like snow flakes (they’re all slightly different)
You’re welcome.
I’ve always been interested in things I don’t know enough about. Vision is one of those things and there are many non baseball people who might know much more than the baseball experts when it comes to the subject. Including some moms!
Here is what fascinates me the most…
The swing is something you can see, video tape, photograph and evaluate or judge. Same for how well someone throws, runs, fields, etc.
But one thing that no instructor or scout can ever fully evaluate is… what does that hitter actually see! Can the hitter even completely describe it? Not sure we even know that any two hitters see exactly the same thing. Maybe it’s like snow flakes (they’re all slightly different)
laflippin,
Living in the past. I know lots of people who do that and it's much more than .1 seconds.
That's exactly what I was hoping to get out of all this. Learning something I didn't know. Thanks!
Hope you stick around here for a long long while.
Living in the past. I know lots of people who do that and it's much more than .1 seconds.
That's exactly what I was hoping to get out of all this. Learning something I didn't know. Thanks!
Hope you stick around here for a long long while.
ClevelandDad,
Thank you very much for the nice welcome--I am really glad to have found this excellent discussion forum. This website has been a breath of fresh air for me because of the wildly diverse and incredibly deep interests in all aspects of baseball that are represented here. To be honest, I'm more used to the weird dynamics of eteamz...I just didn't know any better until a few days ago.
PG,
Let me add my thanks to some others that you started this particular thread. I think you really have it right with the 'snowflake analogy'--no one can literally see exactly the same thing in exactly the same way as someone else. To do that, we would all have to have identical brains and an identical set of relevant past experiences.
But, in the same way that all snowflakes are basically white, fluffy, and cold, at some level there is clearly a lot of commonality in how we see things. Assuming Albert Pujols' brain and mine share the same basic features, I could theoretically learn to see a moving baseball pretty closely to the way he sees it. But not without the same amount of specific experiential training (which I believe would be absolutely prohibitive in my case...
)
Thank you very much for the nice welcome--I am really glad to have found this excellent discussion forum. This website has been a breath of fresh air for me because of the wildly diverse and incredibly deep interests in all aspects of baseball that are represented here. To be honest, I'm more used to the weird dynamics of eteamz...I just didn't know any better until a few days ago.
PG,
Let me add my thanks to some others that you started this particular thread. I think you really have it right with the 'snowflake analogy'--no one can literally see exactly the same thing in exactly the same way as someone else. To do that, we would all have to have identical brains and an identical set of relevant past experiences.
But, in the same way that all snowflakes are basically white, fluffy, and cold, at some level there is clearly a lot of commonality in how we see things. Assuming Albert Pujols' brain and mine share the same basic features, I could theoretically learn to see a moving baseball pretty closely to the way he sees it. But not without the same amount of specific experiential training (which I believe would be absolutely prohibitive in my case...
)
laflippin,
I've talked to Pujols before. That would be a big assumption. Believe me, other than location, you and him do not have brains that share a whole lot.
On the other hand, even if you got the experience and saw the ball exactly like he does, I doubt you would hit it anywhere near as well. Which I'm sure you already know.
I've talked to Pujols before. That would be a big assumption. Believe me, other than location, you and him do not have brains that share a whole lot.
On the other hand, even if you got the experience and saw the ball exactly like he does, I doubt you would hit it anywhere near as well. Which I'm sure you already know.
Well, if you put a bag over his head and tied his arms to his sides I could possibly see the ball even better than Mr. Pujols...and we'd probably share the same 0.000 batting average at that point unless he got a lucky hit...
The snowflake analogy makes a lot of sense to me. But how is it that a hitter will have some days when the ball appears "huge"? Or the pitches seem slower than usual? I'm sure we've all heard players describe these experiences. Some call it "being in the zone". The players don't know how or why, on that particular day, they were seeing the ball like never before. I'm curious why that ability to see extraordinarily well is fleeting for some -- more common for others. (maybe they had their "Wheaties"?)
quote:Originally posted by emeraldvlly:
The snowflake analogy makes a lot of sense to me. But how is it that a hitter will have some days when the ball appears "huge"? Or the pitches seem slower than usual? I'm sure we've all heard players describe these experiences. Some call it "being in the zone". The players don't know how or why, on that particular day, they were seeing the ball like never before. I'm curious why that ability to see extraordinarily well is fleeting for some -- more common for others. (maybe they had their "Wheaties"?)
More good questions. I have never quite understood the ball looks bigger analogy and wonder if hitters use this as a figure of speech to explain that they are indeed tracking the ball better and/or perhaps longer. I also wonder if a hitter is able to stay on the ball a wee bit longer before committing then in fact the ball may look bigger because it is closer to them before they have to start projecting where it ultimately ends up
emeraldvlly,
That is certainly the question that everyone wants to answer...how to get into 'the zone', where everything seems completely optimized for success, whenever you want to.
Since that would totally screw up the level of the playing field there is probably some kind of 'zone rule book' that strictly limits the number of zone-entries that can be made for personal profit.
That is certainly the question that everyone wants to answer...how to get into 'the zone', where everything seems completely optimized for success, whenever you want to.
Since that would totally screw up the level of the playing field there is probably some kind of 'zone rule book' that strictly limits the number of zone-entries that can be made for personal profit.
Well now, you have brought up an interesting problem. It would bring havoc on the game we love if everyone could access this "zone". So perhaps we could edit the "zone rule book" to allow only certain players the ability. (maybe my son? 
)
)quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
But one thing that no instructor or scout can ever fully evaluate is… what does that hitter actually see! Can the hitter even completely describe it? Not sure we even know that any two hitters see exactly the same thing. Maybe it’s like snow flakes (they’re all slightly different)
PG, I think it may have been during the All Star game that Joe Morgan summarized a discussion he had with Bonds about hitting.
Morgan talked about how almost everyone is taught to see the pitch out of the pitcher's hand and pick the threads/rotation at that point. Ted Williams always said he could see the threads/rotation out of the hand.
Morgan, with his usual style, said Bonds talked with him about something he had never, ever heard described by a hitter.
Bonds described to Morgan how he could see the ball IN the pitcher's hand at the point of release. He could see how the ball was being held and how the hand was positioned at the point of release.
Morgan went on to describe the additional time/advantage that would give Bonds.
It was fascinating and I wish I could remember more about it so we could find it somewhere. Maybe someone else remembers it also..at least I hope so.
This thread had me go watch some high quality(produced) hitting video.
I super-slowed with three views from the pitchers mound and one from the open side(close up).
I saw some interesting things during the travel of the pitch, mostly the hitters eyes. They can stay with the baseball at, and slightly after impact. The changes in body position, mostly vertical tracking are obvious.
We have all seen still shots of a hitters eyes on the point of contact, but as was asked here before, what are they really seeing?
If the scientists say it is impossible to physically see the ball when it is 5 feet from home plate, then how can you have some "recall" from past experiences if you never experienced it physically????
I super-slowed with three views from the pitchers mound and one from the open side(close up).
I saw some interesting things during the travel of the pitch, mostly the hitters eyes. They can stay with the baseball at, and slightly after impact. The changes in body position, mostly vertical tracking are obvious.
We have all seen still shots of a hitters eyes on the point of contact, but as was asked here before, what are they really seeing?
If the scientists say it is impossible to physically see the ball when it is 5 feet from home plate, then how can you have some "recall" from past experiences if you never experienced it physically????
OLDSLUGGER,
Here is what baffles me and for sure I'm not a scientist.
I believe nearly every hitter would say that he saw the ball and where it was when it crossed the plate on a pitch he didn't swing at. Been a long time since I have faced live pitching, but (I think) I used to be able to see the actual ball as it passed home plate. I only remember this happening when NOT swinging.
So if you can see it when not swinging why can’t you see it while swinging? Even if it registers .1 second late, wouldn't that put everything after that back .1 second as well. This would mean a lot while seeing a ball not swung at, but would put a hitter out of whack while swinging, by .1 second I guess.
Even at that, seeing it cross the plate is really no help because a hitters decision to swing or not swing at the “estimated” location has to take place and be committed before that. That said, I guess it is not important to actually see the ball hit the bat in the strictest sense. By that time it’s too late to do anything about it.
Here is what baffles me and for sure I'm not a scientist.
I believe nearly every hitter would say that he saw the ball and where it was when it crossed the plate on a pitch he didn't swing at. Been a long time since I have faced live pitching, but (I think) I used to be able to see the actual ball as it passed home plate. I only remember this happening when NOT swinging.
So if you can see it when not swinging why can’t you see it while swinging? Even if it registers .1 second late, wouldn't that put everything after that back .1 second as well. This would mean a lot while seeing a ball not swung at, but would put a hitter out of whack while swinging, by .1 second I guess.
Even at that, seeing it cross the plate is really no help because a hitters decision to swing or not swing at the “estimated” location has to take place and be committed before that. That said, I guess it is not important to actually see the ball hit the bat in the strictest sense. By that time it’s too late to do anything about it.
OldSlugger,
That's a good question.
The answer is: You do see the ball cross the plate over and over again as you take BP or hit in games--it's just that you are always seeing it 0.1 seconds late.
But, your brain can still use that data to create a template of what the complete trajectory of any given pitch should look like for use at some other time time. Remember, perception is not discontinuous, you are gathering a continuous stream of information, but you are just seeing that visual information about 0.1 sec late.
Incidentally, Ted Williams in his Science of Hitting book flat-out disavowed the various claims made by some people that he could see the ball as it hit the bat, and that he could read the label on a rapidly spinning record.
It is actually pretty easy to do the neurobiology experiments that demonstrate a ~0.1 second lag time between light impinging on the retina, and the firing of correlated neurons in the visual cortex.
That's a good question.
The answer is: You do see the ball cross the plate over and over again as you take BP or hit in games--it's just that you are always seeing it 0.1 seconds late.
But, your brain can still use that data to create a template of what the complete trajectory of any given pitch should look like for use at some other time time. Remember, perception is not discontinuous, you are gathering a continuous stream of information, but you are just seeing that visual information about 0.1 sec late.
Incidentally, Ted Williams in his Science of Hitting book flat-out disavowed the various claims made by some people that he could see the ball as it hit the bat, and that he could read the label on a rapidly spinning record.
It is actually pretty easy to do the neurobiology experiments that demonstrate a ~0.1 second lag time between light impinging on the retina, and the firing of correlated neurons in the visual cortex.
