Team Ont, OBJ...etc

blexann,

The only advice I have for you is check out the PBLO Premier Baseball League of Ontario that is a step in the right direction.

Ask BobbleheadDoll he will be able to help you more then I can.

blexann
you have a pm

I have two boys who play baseball. The oldest was always a very good player but I think he only made the BC team one year. He just kept working at his game and went to a junior college in California so he could play a lot of ball and get noticed. It worked. He played his last two years at Division 1 and is now playing professionally in the minor leagues.
My younger son was an above average player but I remember when he was 14 he spent most of the season on the bench. In grades 8 through 11 he was never the strongest player on the team and he certainly was never in the running for a provincial team but he loved baseball and he kept playing and working hard. He really "blossomed" starting at about age 17. (when he was 15 there is no way he or I would have guessed that he'd be a Div. 1 college player in California). He has also been drafted but chose to play more college ball for now.
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't be too concerned about missing opportunities to play on the provincial teams. If they keep working hard, and enjoying the game they will be having great experiences . . . and opportunities may open up down the road.

cdnmom,

This is valuable information - thanks for sharing your experience.

quote:

a provincial team

The Team Ontario you tried out for is not a provincial taem It is an incorporated Elite team called Team Ontario Inc. The provincial team is called the Ontario Youth Team and has been since the TO broke from OBA about 5 years ago over some issues that could not be resolved. It has done very poorly for the last few years becaise the Youth team has opened up to Elite team players.

Having said that if your goal is to play on the Canadian National team you should be on the TO INC or OBJ. Some connedtions die hard. The OBJ is a legite Elite team and probably the best Elite team in Canada.
My son who is now 21 made the real Team Ontario at 15 but decided to play for another elite team. The costs were a quarter that of Team O. Recently team O has had some internal problems as well as losing a lot of players. Several key players and coaches left to play for the Intercounty Terriers . This team competes very well with OBJ and other elite teams. As Doc say go to the PBLO site and it lists the elite teams. Several have 16U teams and you can reach them on their websites which are posted there.
There are several great teams but they start at around $4000 per full year.
Cdnmom is right do not let being cut bother you but have your son work hard and get great instruction. Some of these teams charge big fees and don't have the coaches that match the fees. I can advise you if you like. One of my friends just signed to coach 16U team with a great program. Ask what you will get for the money.
Many people still think T O is the team but it is not. It is connected to some great schools and the JNT. T O Inc does have great coaching and I am sure they will get better. You have to watch the politics and the alignment of teams with certain coaches to appreciate what is going on here.

Team Toronto is a far better team than T O Inc.

I just checked T O Inc's web and they amalgamated with the Hamilton Astros last year. The HC of the Astros is a very intelligent coach and former ML scout/coach with the jays.
They also picked up Rick Johnson of the BB zone as an instructor. These are good additions and they did a lottle better last year. If you are interested try again next year.

quote:

BobbleheadDoll

BobbleheadDoll,

Thanks for posting this. I did some searching here on this board and found some of your older posts - this answered some of my questions. I also looked around the PBLO site and spoke to some people in our organization to get a better understanding of the teams. It seems the current 16u OBJ team has attracted (for what ever reason) the best talent out of OBA. I personally know 2 players on this team and have heard that OBJ has attracted many players from the Mississauga Tigers - this team has been loaded with talent for years.

My son managed to get a personal tryout with one of the teams in PBLO this week. He is a little worried that if he does not hook up with one of these teams that it will hinder his chances for a baseball scholarship or at least playing high level ball. He is currently playing in OBA (coba) but is unhappy with the coaching on his team. The residencey rule will not allow players to go to other teams so this is another reason for him wanting to play elite

If you can think of any further advice or information I'd appreciate it.

thanks

OBJ is probably the best elite team in Ontario. They have several guys drafted every year from the 18U team and they travel a lot.
To me one of the best programs for over all development is the Canadian Thunderbirds out of Hamilton. They have a great fall and winter program. They also have a 15U,17U and 18U teams. The Oakville Royals has a great coach Matt Baird who is a legit MLB scout. He runs a high level team with a lot of discipline.
Some teams have better coaching than others so you should find out their back ground. The other thing is find out where their grads go and see if that fits your goal. Also see what tournaments they go to. This as much as anything can justify their fee. A local team here just played in a PG event in Long Island. They also go to the Jupiter event.
Do you need to play for these teams ? absolutely not but it does make it easier to sell what you are selling. As I said each program is usually aligned with a college or colleges in the US. We did our own marketing and had lots of offers but most didn't meet the criteria we set out.
If you don't get hooked up with an elite team you should attend the fall tryout of several teams next year. The T-Birds hold 12-15 tryout and some of the best instruction happens at the tryout as they are trying to sell their program. They used to have 100+ players at each tryout and they were excellent.
I do know that most of these teams are in the tryout phase still. My son played OBA and Elite at the same time for a few years. Yes they have restrictions that don't affect elite teams so far but there seems to be a close bond developing between the PBLO and the OBA. The youth team got tired of losing. The problem I see creeping in is a return to buddies doing favors for their friends again. RJ was head of the youth team and now an instructor with T O Inc. T O Inc was a bottom team and had 3 guys on thye youth team and the Nat team.

Oakville Royals is charging $7000 to play on the 16u 2008 team. A player I know from TOinc is saying that he has been told $4300 tp play on the 16u team. Why such a big discrepancy in cost. Both teams do 4 us tournaments.

I had heard that Oakville was expensive but so is T O Inc and the OBJ is the most expensive.
Probably Bullet Proof ($5500) and the Niagara Rebels ($4800) are the cheapest around but that is a long drive. What about Team Toronto ?
The cost had esccalated since my son played. Some of the teams will let you wotk out all winter for approx $500. and they will often make an offer to play next season. Also try the T-Birds. They have one of the best workout programs but can also get pricy. Unfortunatelt elit ball is expensive.
T O Inc was over $5000 way back around 2000 when my son made the old Team Ontario. They travelled to Florida and to the top tournaments. Back then they held about 15 tryouts all over Ontario and then witled it down to a final tryout. Now they just have 2. They cut most in the 1st tryout and invite only a few to the final . They just don't get the players they used to. Team Toronto and the Terriers took most of the good ones. In 2000 I called them and asked if my son could attend the final tryout. They agreed and he made the team. Picard the head coach and pitching coach was excellent. After he called to say my son made the team I told him we had already signed with another team. He tried to get us to back out but it was only $1200 a year so we said we couldn't. After that he sat with me when my son played district all star. He played 18U at 15. Back then we paid about $400 for OBA, $400 for district allstar and $1200 for the elite team and $150 for HS. Sure looks like a deal now.
Any questions I can answer I will be glad to help. As I mentioned one of my friends/clients is a coach for the 16U T-Birds.

Just a side question since we're talking costs now.

Since I never played 'elite' travel baseball, I've always wondered the break down of those outrageous costs, can anybody shed some light on that for me, like is that including travel expenses, tourney costs etc.?

Thanks!

blexann,

You have a PM

quote:

Originally posted by Doc_K:
Just a side question since we're talking costs now.

Since I never played 'elite' travel baseball, I've always wondered the break down of those outrageous costs, can anybody shed some light on that for me, like is that including travel expenses, tourney costs etc.?

Thanks!

scheck your PM Doc_k.

The cost, at least for the Oakville Royals, covers everything except for food at the 4 US tournaments. Fall ball, Winter training sessons, use of their indoor facility (which by the way was pretty run down), spring and summer games, travel and accomodation, workout grear and spikes. So it does cover alot but worth $7000? - that's questionable.

blexann,

Back at ya!

Thanks for the break down on the costs. That covers a lot, but $7,000 can also pay a semesters worth of tuition as well...

Hey Doc

The cost include all travel costs including food. Once you are it the care of a team they pay for everything.
I never shelled out additional money. A few teams have a bhase price and then if you want to go to a tourney that is not included on their schedule but is optional you pay a fee that includes everything. Some team go to Florida and realize all parents wont pay for that so they pick up players from other teams and charge about $1200 for that trip. The Oakville team goes to Florida and that is includeed in the fee.
Many teams like the Rebels are non profit while teams like Bullet Proof pay their coaches and are for profit. Many teams will open their books to parents if they are non profit. Now the US dollar has dropped in value in comparison to the Canadian dollar their costs shold also drop. Probably won't see a fee drop though.

Blex the Canadian site you are on used to be a good site but it has really hit hard times. The one guy sounds like a Royals guy.
All you have to do is talk to former players from these teams and ask what the true costs are. Most run fund raisers but not all. Ask right up front what the break down is.

yea, that guy does sound like he is from the Royals.

I'm happy with the break down they gave me - fees,fundraising and what is and is not covered. As I stated the fee includes everything except food. I was not happy with their indoor facility - one of the worst that I have seen - I am comapring to baseballzone and the OBJ facility. It's no where close to either of those.

I have been in all 3 and you are right.
The T-Birds, Rebels both practice in large domes all winter. The Rebels have a newer dome that was designed with BB in mind. Dark blue ends and sides do the ball shows up. It is huge. The Rebels are probably7 the least expensive of all of them. They still charge around $4500-4800. Coaches are not paid and yhey are looking for players the last I heard. Most of these teams will add players during the winter long afte tryouts are over. Even the OBJ. We had a power hitter and they chased him for months during the season. He eventually joined them.

That food thing really surprises me. We never had that on any elite team my son played on. I do agree with the point that some teams will sign you up and then your son won't play much. The Royals do the same thing. Take a look at where there grads go and you will get an idea of which coaches/schools they have connections with.

I had a similar thought to Doc K . . . college costs money too - even with a scholarship - so hopefully you don't have to spend all your money when your kids are still quite young. It sounds as if all the choices are expensive though.
When choosing a team at an elite level I think the following is important to consider (in order of importance):
1)a good coach (this is tricky to determine and there are lots of attributes necessary for a good coach, but I believe the coaching staff is the most important factor) Talk to the coaches as well as former or current players and find out where some of the former players are playing now. Remember that a coach who might be great for your son will not be liked by all of his former players, especially if the player didn't want to work hard.
2)team plays at the appropriate skill level for your son(if you have found a good coach, they will be able to tell you this)
3)play against good competition
4)not too far away (or carpooling possible)
Not so important:
1)travel "to be seen"
2)workout facilities

Good luck with your search.

quote:

cdnmom

cdnmom

just wondering why you would put workout facilities at the bottom of your list.

In answer to your question:
I put workout facilities at the bottom because I think you can practice in an old, small facility and still have a much better experience if the coaching is good. The place where my sons practiced was a very small area and when half the team was in there I was amazed at how well run the drills were and how much they could do in a small area. Of course there were lots of things they couldn't do and it would have been nice to have a larger area but the most important thing was that they had good coaches to work with.
Keep in mind that BC weather is milder so they may have practiced outside more and perhaps indoor facilities are more important in Ontario.
Both boys were playing other sports as well through grade 12 so they weren't spending very much time at the indoor facility.

quote:

I think you can practice in an old, small facility and still have a much better experience if the coaching is good