Team player?

Team player--one who will sacrifice himself for others and go out of his way to help the team

Some are not cut our for it-- I always enjoyed team sporst rather thna the individidual--even when I fished the bass tourney circuit here in the Northeast I preferred the team ( two man) events to the individual events

I truly think it is ones nature as to how the choice is made

I think baseball is an individual game with a team concept. When a hitter steps in the batters box it's just him against the pitcher, one on one. The team concept comes into play when he is asked to sacrifice himself for the good of the team. Some players are more suited to it than others. Is it a personality trait or a learned trait? I think probably a little of both.
Within the team concept players must see and understand the total picture and know what they need to do to help the team in a given situation.
I too enjoy the individual aspect of the game. The battle between the pitcher and the hitter. The cat and mouse game between a base runner, the pitcher and the catcher. But I also enjoy the team aspect of the game. The hit and run, sacrifice bunt, squeeze play, etc. If the players involved in any of these are not working together they will not be successful.
Players have to have a one on one mentality to be successful.

Fungo: JUST MY OPINION but here it goes (ducking down):
I don't buy into the addage that "there is no 'I' in team". The team player starts with me. I have to take pride in myself, my skills and what I can bring to the team as an individual. I have to continually work hard to be a better player and competitor. I have to be better than the next guy with my glove, bat and arm, and recognize it when I am not. I have to be able to be supportive of the other guys on the team and know all of my roles on that team - I have many. Offensively I am facing the competition alone for the most part - regardless of the situation - and I have to be the best there is in order to know what to do and when to do it aginst the competition, otherwise, I am not making the best contribution to the team. If everyone on my team isn't the very best - if we are all just second best, we will be a 'second best' team in terms of both wins and character. How can I possibly be a team leader, as all my teammates should strive to be, unless the team can have faith that I believe in myself above all**? How can they have faith in me if I can't assure them I have trained to be the best there is at my position? If I have done all these things, my teammates will know that I will hit the cuttoff man when I should and not try to gun down the runner. They will know I will make the throw home when I should, and not try to hit the cutoff man when appropriate. They'll know I worked hard and practiced bunt technique with runners on first and third and one out and the game is on the line. If the coach gives the sign, I'm going to lay it down the first base line. And I'll have the insight and faith in the runners that they, too, will know the signs and go with the play.
'I' first. That is NOT to the exclusion of my teammates and coaches. That doesn't make me a 'hotdog'. I keep my eyes and ears open to everyone, including the competition, so that I can continue to learn, to teach and to be supportive. I expect my teammates to be the very best they can be as individuals.
There is a lot of psychology and sociology behind the concept of "the team player" and what makes a team player. It's not simple. It's maybe one of the most complex situations an individual can be in. Some are more adept to the concept then others. Genetics and geography have their parts in this. Your physical gifts, mental gifts and environment plays a large role.
(The asterik) **I am a firm believer that unless your ultimate faith is in God, and know that what you are is what He has planned and allowed for you to become, you can never be the ultimate team player.
As far as Fungo looking back over his life and realizing he is not a team player, Fungo has to make the determination as to why that is the case. "Me against whatever" is not a bad concept in and of itself. If greed and self-centeredness rule Fungo's life, Fungo has more than baseball or sports to worry about.

Yes, baseball has an individual element within a team concept. All the things that you talk about. Bunting, hit and run, etc are all things that make a baseball player a good team mate. It is not a new concept.

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(The asterik) **I am a firm believer that unless your ultimate faith is in God, and know that what you are is what He has planned and allowed for you to become, you can never be the ultimate team player.
As far as Fungo looking back over his life and realizing he is not a team player, Fungo has to make the determination as to why that is the case. "Me against whatever" is not a bad concept in and of itself. If greed and self-centeredness rule Fungo's life, Fungo has more than baseball or sports to worry about.

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Liking individual sports doesn't inherently make one a bad person just because he likes the "me agaisnt the world" concept. Some guys just prefer the competition that way.

I find the judgement about greed and selfcenteredness to be interesting considering that we live in a free market and capitalist society. Saying that is a bad thing is inflecting your beliefs on others. JMO

Fungo...it is my observation that you appear to be a pretty good team player on this site.

Have to agree with DP Dad on this one. There are important individual components in the game of baseball. Every player must develop a sense of purpose within himself, and must have a desire to make himself the best player he can possibly be to truly appreciate the game. However, I think ANYONE can humble themselves for the sake of a cause that is bigger than himself - it is the difference between being selfish and self-interested (sorry, I am an Economics teacher!).
I always loved the one-on-one battle that I had with hitters - it was what drove me to work so hard. However, I've never found myself having a great outing and losing, and then going home happy. I think THAT is the team concept.

Fungo

You got the 8 if you'll bet high enough.

BIGHIT15: What I said was that "if greed and self-centeredness rule one's life" one has more to worry about than baseball. We're not talking about free markets or capitalism here. We're talking about team players vs the individual. There is a big difference. I stand by my statement that if you let greed and self-centeredness rule your life, you have more to worry about than baseball. My opinion.
I also said "me against whatever" was NOT a bad concept in and of itself. I approach a lot of things like that myself at times.
If you want to find something to argue about or criticize, go to my statement about God. You have a possible argument there. I stated what my beliefs are - you are entitled to yours. Don't twist what I said.

FUNGO: By the way, I thought yours was one of the most intelligently stated and thought-provoking posts I've seen in a while. I hope you understood what I was saying in mine.

I've always preferred playing as an individual. I wasn't as good of an amateur boxer but I did enjoy it and nothing gets you in shape like boxing. I preferred singles to doubles in tennis although I won the same number of tournaments in doubles and had more finals appearances (mostly because I had a strong doubles partner).

One of the great things about baseball is that you can strive to succeed individually and still be a team player. It is only when you put personal statistics ahead of team success that you create a problem.

its ...

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FUNGO: By the way, I thought yours was one of the most intelligently stated and thought-provoking posts I've seen in a while.

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Fungo brings so much to this site with his thought provoking threads. Granted, sometimes some of us go overboard and turn his attempts into dastardly dribble, but for the most part, I enjoy pondering his posts and wondering where I fit into his ideas.

BabyBackMomma ... another Fungo-fan

IMHO, it’s a lot of how one was raised, which means it is in my nature. I can definitely identify with Fungo. When I was in HS the only reason I went out for wrestling was to get in shape for baseball. I ended up enjoying wrestling immensely! Nobody else to blame if I lost and if I won…. Same way with racquetball. I enjoyed doubles, but only after I got too old and out of shape to play a good game of singles or cutthroat. As much as I loved winning in baseball, if the team won and I went 0-4, my happiness was subdued. I just hate to lose. The wife almost quit playing cards with me because I was a poor loser. (Not enough practice at it, lol.) If I won it was skill and if she won it was luck . Thankfully I’ve mellowed in my old age and can just enjoy the game, yeah right.

I can however limit my competitive nature to sports or games. Maybe that’s why I’ll never be rich or famous .

As much as I love my kids and want them to succeed, I have no problem with jealousy or wishing the best for others (envy maybe, but not jealousy). One reason I like this site, so I can root for everyone else’s kids when they do good and sympathize when things are tough.

In short, as Clint Eastwood said, “You’ve got to know your limitations!”. I’d like to think I can separate "games" from real life situations.

Frank

One of the reasons that 'individuals' struggle in baseball is that it is the ultimate team game. When the game is on the line you cannot always have your best hitter at the plate and your best pitcher on the mound, as opposed to other team sports like football and basketball, in which a coach will always try to get the ball into the best player's hands when the game is on the line.

Statistics are relatively meaningless when you look at the one stat that really matters, W/L....give me the player who is pissed off when he goes 4 for 4 and we lose........you can have the guy who is elated at going 4 for 4 in a team loss.

Being a team player is learned and bought into.....being a selfish individual is also learned behavior.......and it all starts with us parents.......when we discuss our kids and their games, what is the message we are sending.....whatever it is, they do learn it.

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Originally posted by grateful:
One of the reasons that 'individuals' struggle in baseball is that it is the ultimate team game...

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Huh??

It is the most individualistic team game there is.

To say it is more of a team game than basketball or football is.......well, it makes me wonder about you.

Fungo,
Great topic.
The meaning of the word team to me is a group working together. I would suppose one not being a team player would mean that one does not work well with others. It's what/how you contribute to that group that is important.
Whether one prefers a sport that requires one to compete as an individaul or against him/herself does not make one not a team player,it's just a preference.
Teams can be found in the home, at work, on the field, in the court,etc. It's how you get along with others, what you contribute to the team that makes one a player or not.
Fungo, since you contribute and bring a lot to this site, you are definetly a team player!

its and BigHit,
I understand both positions and actually believe they are one in the same. Maybe we ALL must have certain degrees of greed and self-centeredness? Maybe understanding and harnessing those drives is what makes one successful over being a common everyday predator??
I think everyone, CADad, BigHit, DP, and Coach Knight all have brought up a very good point that I hadn’t thought of. . . I guess you’re saying that the motivation to improve can only come from a player’s personal, individual desire and has nothing to do with the team concept. Makes sense since your teams will change and your teammates will change but the true competitor will take his desire to be better no matter where he goes.

BBM and Daddy Bo,
You are too kind. Any ignorant fool can ask a question. . . . It takes an intelligent person to provide the answer.
Fungo

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(The asterik) **I am a firm believer that unless your ultimate faith is in God, and know that what you are is what He has planned and allowed for you to become, you can never be the ultimate team player.

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So it's because of God that we have murderists & rapists in this world? He "planned" that path for them?

Get Real!

Jason

Go for it, Teacherman....spend your whole day wondering about me if you really want to!

Some excellent posts.

Okay guys those who mentioned the individual parts of the game have led right into the hardest aspect of being a team player.

The competitive athlete works hard at being the best player he can be. However, no matter how hard he works - he is still caught up in the most difficult part of being a team player.

It certainly is not being asked to hit sacrifice fly to drive in a run. That's easy, even if you are a great line drive hitter.

So what is it?

Being able to understand that the slow guy in left field who didn't get to a ball and allowed 2 runs in was doing HIS very best. After all a team player realizes that the team is only as good as it's weakest player.

Close, but not quite.

That is hard for a lot of competitive athletes to handle - the lack of control over a huge aspect of the game.

Accepting that your win or loss is affected by team mates who are less talented and/or not as dedicated as you are is probably the hardests aspect of being a team player - and definitely the defining aspect of it.

A true team player handles the frustatration a bit different. He is the one to encourage both the less talented player, hard line the lack of effort player in an effort to encourageing them to excel for the sake of the entire team. (All the while he wants to he wants to clobber both of them)

Sorry guys,
One's ability or lack of does not make one a team player.
As far as sports is concerned, I know of some truly great athletes who stink at being a team player.

FLIPPJ / Jason: You obviously don't have a clue what I am talking about, and this is not the right forum to be discussing spiritual beliefs beyond what I have stated. You want to talk about it let's do it on another thread clearly labeled regarding the topic or take it to private messaging. My bad inviting Bighit to reply to that here.

"it's because of God we have murderers and rapists". I didn't say that and don't believe it and didn't imply it.

End of discussion here for me - I invite you to start another thread if you want to continue.

Being a team player in baseball.......I see a team player when he strikes out a couple of times, but does not carry it out to the field on defense. I see a team player when he strikes out a few times, but is genuinely happy when a teammate gets a winning hit. I see a team player when he pitches poorly and is removed from the game, but is still genuinely rooting for his teammates. etc. etc. etc.

If you are watching closely, it shows.

I was at the game when Barry Bonds hit his 700th home run and when he crossed home plate only the on deck hitter gave him a pat. The guys in the dugout never moved, except for a couple of rookies. It really caught my attention.

bbscout ...

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was at the game when Barry Bonds hit his 700th home run and when he crossed home plate only the on deck hitter gave him a pat. The guys in the dugout never moved, except for a couple of rookies.

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So, is that a reflection on Bonds or his teammates? Is he the team player and they the sour grapes guys, or was his 700th treated so casually because he is not perceived to be a team player?

A couple of thoughts:

It's easier to spot someone who isn't a team player than someone who is.

Becoming a team player has to do with trust. It's about knowing what your job is, going out and doing it to the best of your ability, and trusting everyone else to do the same. And it's letting everyone else on the team know loud and clear that that's your expectation.

Being a team player means that when someone has given a good faith effort, and they just can't get the job finished, you step in and lend a hand. And you do it in a way that acknowledges both the effort and the failure equally, with dignity, not derision.

Being a team player means accepting the helping hand when it's offered.

Being a team player means focusing on the job at hand and leaving individual issues at the door.

A team player recognizes the need for a leader, is always willing to step in to lead if necessary, and is able to follow another's leadership as well.

A team player recognizes the physical impossibility of playing nine positions at once, and sees that no matter how good the individual player may be, he's nothing without eight other guys. Without his team, he might as well just go play golf.

I apologize to everyone but I think in terms of lists and so, here is a corrupted list that I developed after receiving a hand out from the legendary basketball coach Don Meyer:

We call these "Qualities of a Baseball Knight." However, it is really centered on team/individual relationships.


1. He wants the toughest and best competition in practice and in games because it makes him better.
2. He would rather his team win conference than himself make All-Conference.
3. Whether in the game or not, he wants all of his teammates to do well.
4. He practices hard and pays the price because he knows that most Baseball games are won or lost due to preparation.
5. He deals honestly with his coaches and teammates. He understands that disloyalty to either coaches or teammates hurts the team and will not be tolerated.
6. He never assesses blame.
7. He pays attention to detail.
8. He never likes losing but he is gracious in losing. He understands that he represents his team, coaches, school and community.
9. He will never back down from competition.
10. He practices to make small strides in his game each and every day to enable him to be a complete baseball player by the end of his playing career as a Knight.
11. He realizes that his off-field behaviors, demeanor and attitude affect the team, coaching staff, school and community.
12. He realizes that if we lose, it is not “his fault.” Losing is a team loss. He also realizes that if we win, it is not strictly because of him. Winning is a team win.
13. He realizes that the difference between most players is not so great that hard work cannot overcome it.
14. He puts the time and effort in during the off-season in the plyo-metric and weight conditioning program to enable his team to have success.
15. He would rather build character than be a character!

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Originally posted by itsagreatgame:
FLIPPJ / Jason: You obviously don't have a clue what I am talking about, and this is not the right forum to be discussing spiritual beliefs beyond what I have stated.

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You brought it into this conversation. I was simply trying to show how ridiculous that comment was. But maybe I "don't have a clue".

Jason

Team players all have one common trait. A burning desire to win.

They do whatever is necessary within the rules of the game to help the team win.

Doesnt matter what it is - its all about winning.

Everything else is just for the newspapers and hype meisters.

Cute little wink, Jason / flippj. If that's the best you have, congratulations. Like I said, you wanna debate the topic let's take it elsewhere. Public or otherwise.

God doesnt care whether you win or not.
He has bigger issues to worry about IMO.

Just shut up - and play.

CoachB25- Love the list - I will modify it and use it in my team handbooks this spring...thank you.

Teacherman - I'll disagree about baseball being a team sport. In football, you can hand the ball to one guy all night and he can score every point...can you do that in baseball? In basketball, you can hide a poor shooter by not letting him shoot, and you can cover up a weak defensive player by playing him on the opponents weakest offensive player, or by playing a zone...can you do that in baseball?
Baseball IS the ultimate team sport, because a team sport is one in which the whole team must do its job to win.

I guess we can see why you don't coach Basketball or Football.

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Originally posted by itsagreatgame:
Cute little wink, Jason / flippj. If that's the best you have, congratulations. Like I said, you wanna debate the topic let's take it elsewhere. Public or otherwise.

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itsagreatgame,

I'm not interested in debating. You made a ridiculous comment and it had no place in this conversation. My goal was to make you aware of that. Sorry if I hurt your feelings in the process.

itsinthegame -->

Jason

Great to be a team player....whatever that means.

Better to have talent.

All the "rah", "rah" in the world doesn't help you hit the fastball.

Saw someone take a shot at Barry Bonds...the best baseball player in the history of baseball.

For the past 5 years, MLB pitchers have walked him 1,000 times...much of that intentional. These are Major League pitchers we are talking about,folks, who makes millions of dollars a year and whose profession it is is to get players out!

Team player or not. The man is the best!

Coach Knight, I respect what you are saying. As one who has coached both I would have to disagree on a couple of points. Baseball is definitely a team sport, but there is definitely an individual aspect to it in training and in games.
In many ways football is the ultimate team sport. It is a sport of inclusion. They only play 1 game a week, but they practice every day. It takes everybody to win in football. Even Rudy, who never dressed had his part to do to make the team better. Almost every player gets relieved during the game to get a breather. The offense, defense, punt team, punt return team, and all other special situations call for specialist to plug ionto a whole and contribute. Even the bench warmers contribute in practice and special teams.

As much as I love baseball, I could never in good concience call it more of a team sport than football. The way that baseball is so stat driven leads it to have players to live and die on their stats and individual exploits. Though done so in the context of a team.

I have never witnessed the comradrie on a baseball team and field the way I have witnessed it in football.

It is only my opinion.

CoachB25, good list. I hate list makers, specially my wife.

Teacherman, I don't know who your quote on coaching is directed at so... I did coach basketball for 17 years. My coaching record is available anytime on the IHSA website on coaching. I got out when I realized that I was coaching everyone else's kid and not spending anytime at all with mine. My wife was the only one participating in that team game called family.

Coach Knight, thanks for the compliment. I have spoken with/met some great coaches. Most have been willing to share things that made them successful. ONE OF THESE DAYS, MAYBE SOMEONE WILL CONSIDER ME SUCCESSFUL ENOUGH TO WANT TO KNOW WHAT I KNOW! LOL! (but i'm not counting on it. )

BigHit, LMAO! MY WIFE BELIEVES HER LIST ALWAYS OUTWEIGHS MINE! UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S LONGER AS WELL!!!

Just happy to offer you a segway.

Teacherman, having nothing to do with this topic, but how are the Blue Boys going to be this year?

Give it up, Flipper. You are an embarassment. Nobody's jumping on your bandwagon.

The only thing that's ridiculous is your inability to read and follow a thought process as evidenced by your chronic distortion of what was said.

By the way, who died and left you moderator - telling me what is appropriate and what's not?

I think Fungo asked us to post our thoughts on what makes a person a team player.