Tebow

jacjacatk posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

2forU posted:

The double standard at it's best.

What double standard?  Tebow didn't kneel during the National Anthem! 

All of them are kneeling for something they believe in. Preferring one over the other is inherently a value judgement of the cause for which they're kneeling. Especially in light of the attacks all of them have received for making a statement in what some (many?) judge to be an inappropriate venue.

I'm not sure you can make a logical argument that Kaepernick and those inspired by him should be derided for making their statement while lauding Tebow for making his. The optics of the racial divide don't especially help, either.

I have no problem with Tebow kneeling...in fact I could care less if he did/does it or not.  Again, he didn't do it during the National Anthem.   I also don't have a problem with Kapernick or any other athlete kneeling, locking arms, etc, etc, etc.....but NOT during the National Anthem.  I don't care what anyone says, they are DISRESPECTING this country and the veterans who served (or lost their lives) defending American rights.....the same America that allows for those clowns to makes millions of dollars for having done nothing more with their lives than to play a game.  Kneel right before the kickoff....at the quarter break, during halftime....whatever....but not during the National Anthem.  At this point, these guys have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING toward helping their causes....whatever it may be....they have actually made the divide among two sides (their side or the other side....no matter what the issue) worse by promoting it during the anthem instead of at some other time.

MTH posted:

2forU posted:

I wonder what will happen at home plate after he hits his first home run.  I think it's funny that he pisses so many people off. I can understand the Steelers fans (go Steelers!!!).  I also think it's funny that so many still believe that the press and people on social media were not ripping him a new one due to his outward showing of his religious beliefs

A few years ago I had a 12 year old score the winning run in a game.  When got to the dugout, still grinning, he told me "I started to Tebow on home plate."  He wasn't interested in any sort of religious tribute.  He just wanted to show off.  My response, "be glad you didn't, cause you won't do it but once."  

Should Tebow do this he better be ready for one in the ear hole during his next AB.  The boy clearly ain't no rocket scientist.  But, I think he knows better than that.  He'll save it until after the high fives, when he's safely in the dugout.   

This is exactly my point....Tebow didn't kneel in the end zone after touchdowns.....he didn't kneel at midfield during pregame announcements....and he didn't kneel during the national anthem.  He was kneeling for his reason....BUT also kneeling on "his time".....not taking away from the game, his teammates or the national anthem.  Anti-religious guys didn't like it....which is the only reason it was even noticed. 

It's always been all over social media and the press when he was in the NFL.  I've posted some of the links and statements. If there were not any social condemnation of his outward showing of his beliefs, he could have been judged based on talent / performance (good college, lacking professional skills in the NFL).  I don't agree that it's a false argument, just stating the facts. It's well documented.  Support for him in baseball is a different argument. He's toned it down a bit for baseball or just has not had the opportunity to outwardly show his beliefs.  If he ever hits a home run, we'll see if he tebow's at home plate. Then it will start all over again.

It would be easy to argue he WAS judged by his talent in the NFL.  He wasn't a very good QB.  His accuracy was abysmal.

If he kneels at home plate after a HR, I will question his intelligence, not condemn him for his religious display.  

Just saw a pic of Tebow on the nydailynews site and he has what looks to be a Baden Axe bat in his hand. Kind of weird/interesting. Perhaps there are many pros already swinging those.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

jacjacatk posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

2forU posted:

The double standard at it's best.

What double standard?  Tebow didn't kneel during the National Anthem! 

All of them are kneeling for something they believe in. Preferring one over the other is inherently a value judgement of the cause for which they're kneeling. Especially in light of the attacks all of them have received for making a statement in what some (many?) judge to be an inappropriate venue.

I'm not sure you can make a logical argument that Kaepernick and those inspired by him should be derided for making their statement while lauding Tebow for making his. The optics of the racial divide don't especially help, either.

I have no problem with Tebow kneeling...in fact I could care less if he did/does it or not.  Again, he didn't do it during the National Anthem.   I also don't have a problem with Kapernick or any other athlete kneeling, locking arms, etc, etc, etc.....but NOT during the National Anthem.  I don't care what anyone says, they are DISRESPECTING this country and the veterans who served (or lost their lives) defending American rights.....the same America that allows for those clowns to makes millions of dollars for having done nothing more with their lives than to play a game.  Kneel right before the kickoff....at the quarter break, during halftime....whatever....but not during the National Anthem.  At this point, these guys have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING toward helping their causes....whatever it may be....they have actually made the divide among two sides (their side or the other side....no matter what the issue) worse by promoting it during the anthem instead of at some other time.

I was in Denver for the whole thing. I don't believe the criticism of Tebowing (an actual dictionary word now) was based on anti-religion grounds. Critics were both religious and non-religious. For the most part, I always had the feeling that those who criticized were doing so based on an idea that he was doing so simply to draw attention to himself.  Me? I could have cared less one way or the other. I'm an atheist and had no problems with it, but had many Christian friends who did have a problem. Of course, I also thought he was an adequate qb, so...

redbird5 posted:

It would be easy to argue he WAS judged by his talent in the NFL.  He wasn't a very good QB.  His accuracy was abysmal.

If he kneels at home plate after a HR, I will question his intelligence, not condemn him for his religious display.  

There were many that did judge him just on talent and just as many who did not.  He was not a very good Pro QB (unfortunately he beat the Steelers) and if he was judged just by talent alone and not religion, we would not have made it to page 8 on the forum.  I doubt he would have had the baseball opportunity. Tebow is big news for lots of reasons.  If he does kneel at home plate, I think everyone will question his intelligences, but there will be bad press and social media about his religious outburst all over again. 

jacjacatk posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

jacjacatk posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

2forU posted:

The double standard at it's best.

What double standard?  Tebow didn't kneel during the National Anthem! 

All of them are kneeling for something they believe in. Preferring one over the other is inherently a value judgement of the cause for which they're kneeling. Especially in light of the attacks all of them have received for making a statement in what some (many?) judge to be an inappropriate venue.

I'm not sure you can make a logical argument that Kaepernick and those inspired by him should be derided for making their statement while lauding Tebow for making his. The optics of the racial divide don't especially help, either.

I have no problem with Tebow kneeling...in fact I could care less if he did/does it or not.  Again, he didn't do it during the National Anthem.   I also don't have a problem with Kapernick or any other athlete kneeling, locking arms, etc, etc, etc.....but NOT during the National Anthem.  I don't care what anyone says, they are DISRESPECTING this country and the veterans who served (or lost their lives) defending American rights.....the same America that allows for those clowns to makes millions of dollars for having done nothing more with their lives than to play a game.  Kneel right before the kickoff....at the quarter break, during halftime....whatever....but not during the National Anthem.  At this point, these guys have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING toward helping their causes....whatever it may be....they have actually made the divide among two sides (their side or the other side....no matter what the issue) worse by promoting it during the anthem instead of at some other time.

I fought in two wars and had many friends die on the U.S.S. Stark. I have never once felt insulted by Kaepernick's actions. If anything, I feel pride in the fact that my service helped preserve a society where those who feel the need to bring attention to things they feel are unjust may do so without fear that the government may silence them. As far as when and where to protest, protesting at a time and place that causes controversy is sort of the point.

I agree with what BUCKEYE 2015 posted above.

Seems like there are so many other and better ways to get their point across.  Better ways to protest than disrespecting our flag and National Anthem.  I do think what they are doing is dividing more than pulling us together.  Not many are complaining about their cause,  just find another way to protest.  Yes, I am a veteran, and understand they have the freedom and right to do this.  Fly banners, form groups, wear signage, speak out, do anything, but don't disrespect our country.  And if the entire team isn't following what you do, how strong is your message?  Why not try to get the whole team involved in the issues and do it in a better way?  There is strength in numbers, maybe the teams fan base would follow.

I would add that his actions don't even come close to disrespecting this country as much as those who fly the flag of a nation that attempted to tear this country apart at the seams and killed US soldiers in droves. I do feel disrespected and insulted when I see someone fly the Confederate flag (just as bad as if it were a Nazi flag).

Swampboy!  Can you PLEASE close this thread now?  We've moved on to arguing over the Confederate flag and Civil War.

Disclaimer:  There was no tebowing performed during the argument over the confederate flag and the civil war.

Teaching Elder posted:

Swampboy!  Can you PLEASE close this thread now?  We've moved on to arguing over the Confederate flag and Civil War.

While I agree that the topic has morphed (nothing new there), maybe I should point out that no one forces you to look at any posts in the topic. They won't kick you off the board if you choose to ignore any single thread. Really, they won't. As long as the topic is civil, I don't see any reason it should be forced to be closed. It'll close itself when the well runs dry as all of these eventually do. In the meantime, feel free to ignore the thread entirely. Freedom to choose, baby! It's an awesome personal right.

Me, and this thread.  "...a loathsome, offensive brute.  Yet I can't look away."

http://imgur.com/gallery/R0VNplD

roothog66 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Swampboy!  Can you PLEASE close this thread now?  We've moved on to arguing over the Confederate flag and Civil War.

While I agree that the topic has morphed (nothing new there), maybe I should point out that no one forces you to look at any posts in the topic. They won't kick you off the board if you choose to ignore any single thread. Really, they won't. As long as the topic is civil, I don't see any reason it should be forced to be closed. It'll close itself when the well runs dry as all of these eventually do. In the meantime, feel free to ignore the thread entirely. Freedom to choose, baby! It's an awesome personal right.

Just as long as we don't choose brussel sprouts...

jacjacatk posted:

roothog66 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Swampboy!  Can you PLEASE close this thread now?  We've moved on to arguing over the Confederate flag and Civil War.

While I agree that the topic has morphed (nothing new there), maybe I should point out that no one forces you to look at any posts in the topic. They won't kick you off the board if you choose to ignore any single thread. Really, they won't. As long as the topic is civil, I don't see any reason it should be forced to be closed. It'll close itself when the well runs dry as all of these eventually do. In the meantime, feel free to ignore the thread entirely. Freedom to choose, baby! It's an awesome personal right.

Just as long as we don't choose brussel sprouts...

Of course. There are limits to the exercise of personal freedoms.

Devin McCourty and Martellus Bennett of the Patriots raised their fists after the national anthem was over. They explained as the sons of military men they would not feel right drawing attention during the anthem. They have both been in the community trying to raise awareness from both sides on the situation. McCourty has been nominated twice for the Walter Payton Man of the Year for his ongoing work with the community.

i don't have a problem with raising a fist when the anthem is over. And they're walking the walk by getting out in the community.

Here's a perspective from Christopher Gasper of the Boston Globe. I don't agree with everything he says. But I respect his intelligence. 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sp...4rC1A4Q7M/story.html

I think that people not directly affected by the issue being protested (or, I suppose in the case of Tebow, revered) need, generally, to take a permissive attitude towards the means and methods chosen by the protesters who feel the need to make their point. Someone will always be the first person to refuse to move to the back of the bus, and we need to carefully consider whether that person's objection is outweighed by our sense of propriety before we start condemning things. Nobody would ever be able to protest anything if they couldn't risk offending someone.

I think Tebowing (as in the act of imitating Tebow) is/was stupid.  I don't find overt displays of religiosity to be inherently offensive as much as sort of pointless and maybe (at least for a lot of Christian ones) a bit hypocritical, but I don't really care or much notice a Tebow kneel or a Big Papi sky-point in the act, whether they're sincerely given or not, and I don't have any objection to the players that do them.