"Television ratings for Major League Baseball aired on regional sports networks continues to dominate prime time in the markets that host teams."
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That's good news. NFL ratings plummeted last year.
Ripken Fan posted:That's good news. NFL ratings plummeted last year.
NFL prime time ratings were down last year. There were some real bad matchups in prime time. In some cases teams that were supposed to be good had flop seasons. There were a lot of one sided games.
football has no future, I'm afraid. Great sport. But the damage it causes to the human body long term will be its undoing.
SluggerDad posted:football has no future, I'm afraid. Great sport. But the damage it causes to the human body long term will be its undoing.
that and the (likely) upcoming player's strike in 2019 or 2020. Players want guaranteed contracts. Owners won't budge
SluggerDad posted:football has no future, I'm afraid. Great sport. But the damage it causes to the human body long term will be its undoing.
Yes but I'm a little worried about baseball too if baseball doesn't find something against pitcher injuries. Harder throwing leads to more injuries and it is getting worse every year. Not life threatening like in football but you can't pitch if you are hurt.
But maybe baseball will use a really fast pitching machine instead of pitchers in 30 years. That way hitting still would be hard enough so that it doesn't become a hr derby
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SluggerDad posted:football has no future, I'm afraid. Great sport. But the damage it causes to the human body long term will be its undoing.
The danger issue has been around forever. Banning football was considered in the early 20th century. I remember hearing week after week in 1987 the fans won't come back. If the 1987 strike didn't kill football nothing will.
But the knowledge about CTE is a more recent revelation and some players who are in the NFL are retiring early deciding it is not worth the risk. Ex players are visibly showing the effects of the damage of a career in football. They used to hobble around on canes--now they are brain damaged, suicidal, etc. Big difference from prior fears about safety.
While I agree that interest in watching the sport will remain strong (mostly due to the billions of dollars spent gambling on games), the erosion of talent has already started and will continue as fewer and fewer kids play the game. Those ugly prime time games last year were a reflection of bad teams of which there seems to be more and more due to the lack of depth in talent...particularly the QB play. Football becomes unwatchable when there is bad play, and I'd rather watch paint dry than see two teams with bad QBs play each other. I'm guessing I am not alone based on the ratings decline.
Dominik85 posted:SluggerDad posted:football has no future, I'm afraid. Great sport. But the damage it causes to the human body long term will be its undoing.
Yes but I'm a little worried about baseball too if baseball doesn't find something against pitcher injuries. Harder throwing leads to more injuries and it is getting worse every year. Not life threatening like in football but you can't pitch if you are hurt.
But maybe baseball will use a really fast pitching machine instead of pitchers in 30 years. That way hitting still would be hard enough so that it doesn't become a hr derby
Really fast pitching machines and robot umpires? Wonder if the pitching machine could get ejected?
Try and get in an owners pocket for the cost of the dain bramage going on right now to the players. Somebody is gonna pay the costs of the long term medical care of the players. Most likely they will tax the fans and call it a "Heros Fee" (I'm Trade Marking that) and the fans will line up and pay it LOL, just like they line up to pay for Billion dollar stadiums.
The death of football will not initially be noticed at the professional level directly. The NFL will endure and be a major spectacle for some time to come. The real death of football will be caused by the drying out of pop warner, jr High, High school programs and eventually perhaps even college football programs. Football will die in much the way that a star dies. First the core burns out. But it takes many years for the burn out of the core to effect what is happening at the surface of star. In the case of a dying star it takes, I believe, millions of years. In the case of football, a decade or two might suffice.
If there is not talent in the pipeline, eventually the NFL will eventually succumb. It will take a while. But it is already happening. It will only get worse. As somebody already implied above, eventually talented and promising athletes, willing to give their all to a sport, but who still want a life after sports, will begin to find their way into sports that exact less of a long term physical cost. As the talent level in the NFL gradually wanes, fans will gravitate to these other sports as well. Eventually the NFL may go the way of Arena Football. An entertaining curiosity without mass market appeal. Once that happens a negative feedback loop will have been created.
I could not care less about american football in any shape, age, size or form. IF the players want to bash their heads in , let them....football will die off , numbers are going down... better short the NFL
I like Australian Rules Football that's a real mans game, no time outs for injury...
A survey was once done of high school football players. The question was, "Would you still want to be a college and pro football player if you knew you would die at fifty?" 88% responded yes. At the time the mortality age of a lineman was 56. Hiw would the knowledge of CTE change the 88%.
The players aren't worse in the NFL now. The NFL shot for parity and got it. Parity equals mediocrity. Part of the last CBO was a lot less says of contact. You can't teach proper tackling technique without contact.
The one thing I find very noticeable watching football is poor tackling technique. There's way too many body tackling. There's not enough leverage, arms around and wrapping up the ball carrier.
Going back to baseball the Red Sox are mentioned as one of the most watched teams. There was an article in the Globe a couple of weeks ago viewership is down 30% from last year. Maybe it's what happens when a team expected to be good gets four or five hits in way too many games.
In the past any time I'm home I would turn the game on even if just to look up when the volume increases. Who can actually watch every game? This year I've found myself not turning on the game and watching the MLB TV At Bat 20 minute condensed version in the morning. Even that can be boring if the team isn't hitting..
RJM posted:A survey was once done of high school football players. The question was, "Would you still want to be a college and pro football player if you knew you would die at fifty?" 88% responded yes. At the time the mortality age of a lineman was 56. Hiw would the knowledge of CTE change the 88%.
HS football players -- you mean 14 - 18 year olds, who still need their parent's permissions to play the game, to whom 50 will seem like really old and decrepit already, and who tend to think of themselves, as all youth do, as invulnerable.?
Jeez, what a surprise!
Ask these kids parents, who have a little more perspective, presumably, " if you knew that your son would die at 50, or would suffer from debilitating brain injuries for life, and might end up a vegetable, would you still encourage/permit him to play football?"
Parents are the ones who make the decision, especially at the earliest ages, to get sons started on football or not.
That's how the pipeline will dry up.
SluggerDad posted:RJM posted:A survey was once done of high school football players. The question was, "Would you still want to be a college and pro football player if you knew you would die at fifty?" 88% responded yes. At the time the mortality age of a lineman was 56. Hiw would the knowledge of CTE change the 88%.
HS football players -- you mean 14 - 18 year olds, who still need their parent's permissions to play the game, to whom 50 will seem like really old and decrepit already, and who tend to think of themselves, as all youth do, as invulnerable.?
Jeez, what a surprise!
Ask these kids parents, who have a little more perspective, presumably, " if you knew that your son would die at 50, or would suffer from debilitating brain injuries for life, and might end up a vegetable, would you still encourage/permit him to play football?"
Parents are the ones who make the decision, especially at the earliest ages, to get sons started on football or not.
That's how the pipeline will dry up.
Look at the faces of the players. Many black kids believe they will be shot before they're twenty-five. They believe football and basketball is the only way out of their situation. Do you think the possibility of dying at fifty is going to deter them?
Participation is a growing danger but IMO the real threat to HS football is liability. When school districts can either 1) No longer afford liability insurance 2) Get taken to cleaners in court for brain injuries ...that will stop HS football. The dominos fall from there.
As for blacks playing baseball - that door might swing back open as baseball continues its move into becoming "browner" as latin players come to the sport in bigger numbers and starring roles. This makes the sport more diverse. As people like Jeter and others take up front office and coaching positions the games diversity will act as a attraction. The money is there as is longevity. Sooner or later black mothers will start to decide to put gloves and bats in kids hands. If the peer pressure allows it - someday some young African American from Alabama will dream of playing center for the Braves rather than RB for the Tide. And there will be another Henry Aaron.
WSJ did a big article on HS football a few days ago, and the conclusion is that HS football is doing OK in SEC country, but not the rest of the country: https://t.co/uHPQHCyAxJ
Across the country, the number of players fell 2.5 percent from last season and it’s down 4.5 percent since 2006, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp..._concussion_concerns
RJM posted:Across the country, the number of players fell 2.5 percent from last season and it’s down 4.5 percent since 2006, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp..._concussion_concerns
I think youth football (pre-HS) is being even harder hit. Today's Washington Post (in the "On Parenting" newsletter): wapo.st/2y0FBkA
Repetitive hits, concussions, and a mother’s long goodbye to youth football
2019Dad posted:RJM posted:Across the country, the number of players fell 2.5 percent from last season and it’s down 4.5 percent since 2006, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp..._concussion_concerns
I think youth football (pre-HS) is being even harder hit. Today's Washington Post (in the "On Parenting" newsletter): wapo.st/2y0FBkA
Repetitive hits, concussions, and a mother’s long goodbye to youth football
I don't believe kids need to play football before middle school. We didn't let our son. My wife didn't want him playing at all. My reason was different. He would have been the fastest kid on the field. I didn't want some yahoo coach telling players to go for his knees.
Kids should play flag football before middle school. A lot of coaches and pros believe this.
What would be nice is if an organization would come forward with honest information.
One bit of research said there was insignificant long term damage to high school football players who played in the 50's. It's 60 years later. High school players are bigger, faster and stronger now.
On the flip side some research showed 99% of the brains of former NFL players examined in a study had CTE. What wasn't made common knowledge is every one of these players were displaying erratic behavior in their 40's. What about all the players who never displayed erratic behavior over their lifetimes?
The way each result has been publicized has been slanted and dishonest.
This might be a reflection of me growing older and the current information available, but the NFL hits that use to get me out of my chair and cheer now cause concern.
I always thought Ronnie Lott was the dirtiest player to ever be in the NFL. It always disgusted me to hear him lauded as a "tough guy". There never was and never will be anything tough or brave about teeing off on defenseless people. The idea of players carried out on their shields was never a great look for the NFL IMO.
Watching a guy like Earl Campbell run the ball was exhilarating when he powered through tacklers. The price he paid for it was terrible.
So with that said I think RJM makes the point. Truth is - unscientific as it is - that Professional football leaves players physically and mentally damaged. Some more than others - but certainly changed and not for the better. The long term issue comes down to degree. Players that survive into their 70's and 80's with a decent quality of life probably doesn't make anyone too queasy. But if 30/40% (not 90%+) are dying in their 50's and 60's and a high percentage suffer dementia or other obvious degradation physically and mentally then game will eventually suffer on the participation front as discussed at length in the thread.
The NFL's week 1 ratings were down pretty significantly. Many different opinions as to why.
I'm sure if the NFL could somehow convince more guys to kneel for the Anthem those ratings would jump right through the roof. Generally, Americans love that kind of stuff.......We specifically tune in to be confronted with politics & social issues when we watch football & other sports......
MidAtlanticDad posted:The NFL's week 1 ratings were down pretty significantly. Many different opinions as to why.
How about too major population bases busy dealing with hurricanes rather than watching tv?
Hmm, Steve A. Maybe you're onto something. NFL ratings (high and low) relate to kneeling!
FWIW through five weeks NFL ratings are down 7.4% from 2016 and 18% from 2015:
www.sportingnews.com/au/nfl/ne...dciv69u1js5gbte2tyg2
The ratings are still huge though.
Tracy Rocker was an All American football player and played in the NFL. His son Kumar is a baseball player. Kumar is very athletic and around 6'5/250 his junior year in HS. He is committed to Vanderbilt and he's one of the top prospects in next year's MLB draft.
There seems to be a lot more former football players with baseball playing sons.
I think baseball is seeing more & more of the athletes who went to football & that is nothing but good for our game!
This is going to sound bad.... but could football today be the equivalent of smoking in 80s-90s. We all knew it was bad for you, but the Tobacco companies of that era and the NFL of today tell us that they can find no connection between smoking and lung cancer and repeated concussions and permanent brain damage.
Nonamedad posted:This is going to sound bad.... but could football today be the equivalent of smoking in 80s-90s. We all knew it was bad for you, but the Tobacco companies of that era and the NFL of today tell us that they can find no connection between smoking and lung cancer and repeated concussions and permanent brain damage.
Maybe. I know that there were not really many gun duels but they did happen a long time ago. Now the only ones dueling are the folks with little to lose. Football is becoming a bit like this. Fewer kids with bright non-football futures are playing beyond HS. Yes, there are still many, but fewer than in prior decades.
Gladiators of 2000 years ago did not live long. For those who chose to become gladiators, what were they thinking? Probably didn't have much to lose. In a couple hundred years, our descendants may ask why people chose to play football, especially NFL.
I grew up near a small town in Texas. Played HS football and would probably do so today.
The NFL has a lot of problems right now:
- Concussions
- Other Sports (Soccer & Lacrosse are gaining a lot of popularity)
- Anthem Protests
All of these reasons can only help baseball, because football fans are turning away. As far as concussions, there are a lot of former football players that don't want their kids playing football.
I believe that the rules changes with football are one of the reasons for the ratings drops as well.
Instant Replay makes the game go on fooorrrreeeeevvvvvveeeeeerrrrr. Seems like the game is constantly going to a commercial while they review a call. It is SO irritating.
The rules surrounding how and when and how hard you can hit another player have taken some of the fun out of it as well. Can't touch the QB in the head, even if your arm just sweeps by him trying to block a pass. If you fall on the ground and roll into the QB, it's roughing the QB as well. Can't hit high, can't hit low. And there's all kinds of new rules about hitting regular players as well. I know it's for safety and all, but it gets out of hand. Get flagged for targeting, they have to review and make sure it actually was. Is the player kicked out or not. Ugh... Seems like every series, there is some kind of penalty. I think it takes away from the game.
And for me, the biggest thing of late is this kneeling garbage. I haven't watched an NFL game in 3 weeks now. Just can't take the politics that the players are injecting into the game. It's unnecessary. I won't get into how I specifically feel about it, but suffice it to say, that has put me over the edge with the NFL...
And now we get to watch more of those well-rehearsed celebration dances again... yippeee.
rynoattack posted:The NFL has a lot of problems right now:
- Concussions
- Other Sports (Soccer & Lacrosse are gaining a lot of popularity)
- Anthem Protests
All of these reasons can only help baseball, because football fans are turning away. As far as concussions, there are a lot of former football players that don't want their kids playing football.
The NFL is brutal, from a player contract perspective.
Just read an article that Navarro Bowman was released by the 49ers. This guy does not have a guaranteed contract but he does have a contract through 2022 which (if it were MLB) would be worth around $31,000,000 to him. He came back from one of the most brutal knee and lower extremity injuries imaginable. Does so and then last year tears his achilles. Rehabs back from that and starts the first 5 games (0-5). Now he is released.
In MLB the team would have to honor his entire contract through 2022. NFL...not so much.
Bowman will have huge medical issues with that knee in 10-15 years. My guess is he will have to get a lawyer and fight for every day of treatment when that occurs.
Beckham was being paid about 3.3 Million for this season. Football is a terrible way to make a living.
Very few get rich. You have to believe that if Beckham would have had any skill with a baseball bat he could have earned $300 Million or more playing baseball over 15-17 seasons and possibly as much as 700-800 Million if he had power. As it stands if his career in the NFL is over after 3+ seasons he might have made $10 -12 million. Total. Utility players in their 7th season make that much in MLB to play 90 -100 games.
I'd think there are at least 40 -60 Backs and receivers throughout the NFL that are significantly better athletes than almost anyone in baseball and at least 400 that are better or equal to most. If only 5% to 10% could hit it would turnover about 15-20% of MLB position players and the game would be significantly more athletic.
Baseball would be wise to aggressively pursue getting the game more poplar with African Americans by touting its new found diversity of the last 20 years. Jeter in Ownership will help as would Magic Johnson hoisting a World Series trophy in LA. New emerging stars such as Judge, Correa, Altuve and others will be the faces of the game over the next decade. When kids start hearing about the $400+ million that someone like Harper or Machado is going to get from the Sox or Yanks it has to turn some heads. If the Dodgers, Cubs and Mets also become players for these guys you might even see $500 Million. Imagine that - one of them could earn in one month what Beckham earned in his entire NFL career.
For the first time in 40 years baseball has a chance to take football on and reverse the trend - they should do everything they can now while the opportunity is there.
luv baseball posted:Beckham was being paid about 3.3 Million for this season. Football is a terrible way to make a living.
Very few get rich. You have to believe that if Beckham would have had any skill with a baseball bat he could have earned $300 Million or more playing baseball over 15-17 seasons and possibly as much as 700-800 Million if he had power. As it stands if his career in the NFL is over after 3+ seasons he might have made $10 -12 million. Total. Utility players in their 7th season make that much in MLB to play 90 -100 games.
I'd think there are at least 40 -60 Backs and receivers throughout the NFL that are significantly better athletes than almost anyone in baseball and at least 400 that are better or equal to most. If only 5% to 10% could hit it would turnover about 15-20% of MLB position players and the game would be significantly more athletic.
Baseball would be wise to aggressively pursue getting the game more poplar with African Americans by touting its new found diversity of the last 20 years. Jeter in Ownership will help as would Magic Johnson hoisting a World Series trophy in LA. New emerging stars such as Judge, Correa, Altuve and others will be the faces of the game over the next decade. When kids start hearing about the $400+ million that someone like Harper or Machado is going to get from the Sox or Yanks it has to turn some heads. If the Dodgers, Cubs and Mets also become players for these guys you might even see $500 Million. Imagine that - one of them could earn in one month what Beckham earned in his entire NFL career.
For the first time in 40 years baseball has a chance to take football on and reverse the trend - they should do everything they can now while the opportunity is there.
You think there are 60 guys (running backs and wide receivers) in the NFL that are significantly better athletes than almost anyone in baseball? Not just slightly better, but significantly better? Like, they're not even comparable, because one group is so much more athletic than the other?
I find that hard to believe. Advanced metrics show the fastest guys in both sports run in the 21 and 22 mph range
Check this out: www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/...23-mph-sprint-012617
And this: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/...fastest-by-statcast/
The fastest players in each sport seem to have comparable speed. They tend to be WR and RB (as you noted) in football and CF and SS in baseball. Sure, baseball has first basemen, DHs, and many pitchers who are slow, but then the NFL has lots of linemen. But maybe you meant something else by "better athletes"? Hand-eye coordination? Throwing ability?
I'll use the NY teams as an example. The NY Giants have at least 5 players - Beckham, Apple, Jenkins, Collins and Shepherd that are FAR more athletic than anyone on the NY Mets except for possibly Rosario and there might be 4 Yankees that are as athletic - Judge, Hicks, Gardiner, Gregorius and maybe Castro. But Beckham and Jenkins outclass even the Yankees athletically with Judge's power being the exception here. My estimate is based on the fact that every NFL team has at least two of these specimens that outclass almost everyone in MLB and at least 10 that are equal to or better. For the players that can run - the NFL players to a man are probably stronger. There are linebackers & DE as fast as CF and middle infielders in MLB. Vaughn Miller for example. MLB is sprinkled with a few truly great athletes. The NFL is populated with them. Every NFL team has 10 to15 guys that are Mike Trout physically while baseball teams might have a few.
I was defining athletic as size, speed, agility and strength. From there I was projecting that only 5-10% might have baseball skills - hitting & throwing. If they can hit it is safe to assume they will do so for power. That would make them all 5 tool prospects with elite physical skill. The guy I would use as a comp is McCutcheon - every NFL team has 10 to 15 of him from a size, speed and strength perspective. Have to believe at least 1 of them could have become a skilled baseball player had they started at 8 and stayed focused on the game. To think that many gifted athletes would have those baseball skills is probably understating rather than overstating the likelihood. Hell Deion Sanders was competent playing baseball part time and Bo Jackson was an all star and he didn't focus on baseball until he was in his 20's.
Baseball would still have Chris Davis because the ability to hit 40 HR's is still the premium skill in the sport. But could he be replaced by Cam Newton had he played baseball - yep. Either way guys like Neil Walker who have been decent players for a decade who is all over the place in baseball - gets upgraded physically if NFL players became MLB prospects. I don't think there really is much doubt about it.
To think that the next Willie Mays, Henry Aaron or Frank Robinson was a WR or DB in the 1990's that you can't even name is far more likely than anyone in MLB becoming the next Randy Moss or Jerry Rice both of whom would have made good looking CF prospects - if they could hit and throw. To extend the point - the 2 best players from the 90's Griffey & Bonds both all time greats and sons of baseball players - illustrate my point exactly which is higher African American participation in baseball would make the game better. Those guys are now playing DB or WR in the NFL.
I think there are more great athletes in Football and Basketball. But there have been some of the most highly regarded HS Football players that are now playing professional baseball. However the highest ranked basketball players almost always stick to basketball, mainly because they concentrate on basketball year around.
IMO, NBA players, anyway many of them, are the best athletes in professional sports. I also agree that we (baseball) are very likely missing some black players that might have been the next Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, Barry Bonds type players. Baseball is a sport that requires years of learning. So does basketball. A great athlete can be an excellent football player in a short period of time.
I also believe there is more opportunity in baseball than any other sport. Baseball is a giant industry and many people and players that never made it to the top are making a living in baseball. I wish more young kids understood the opportunities available in baseball.
RJM, with all due respect, before calling Carl Crawford soft you should know his entire story. He grew up in poverty and was one of the best option QBs in Texas HS history, He was committed to U of Nebraska and was also recruited by top college basketball programs.
Baseball wasn't his best sport, but he had to sign because of the money. An unbelievable athlete that suffered through many injuries during a very lucrative career. He was one that made the right decision going with baseball. It is actually the great athletes that suffer the most by injury. Taking speed away from a great athlete can end a career. They didn't pay Carl all that money thinking he was soft.
Being a big fan of both football and baseball, I still wish baseball would get more of those great athletes playing those sports.