The crazy comparisons of Ohtani to Ruth

The counter to that is that Ohtani is doing it in an era of hyper training and hyper specialization while Ruth did it against guys who shoveled Coal in the off-season to make ends meet.  I agree it’s apples and oranges but perhaps for reasons different than the ones you noted.

Ruth never played a night game, never faced a closer, and never faced a player who wasn't 'white' by mlb standards. This doesn't mean Ohtani is better than Ruth of course but it does imo render comparisons almost irrelevant.

100% OskiSD.  It is a totally different sport than a 100 years ago.  Metrics and any comparison are only good in the era they occurred.  Ruth was one of a kind in his era, and Ohtani is one of a kind in his era.

Ruth did things that are impossible today such as out homering every team in the league....himself.

Noone will ever hit 200 homers unless we go to a 365 game season.  He also did it in the end of dead ball era - which makes you wonder what might have been if he'd have been hitting a live ball when he came up in 1914 and had played out field from the beginning.  From 1914 to 1917 he had about 400 at bats total and hit 9 homers.  In 1920 when he went full time OF in 458 at bats he hit 54 homers and averaged about 45 a year for the decade of the 1920's.

Add 45 homers a year from 1914 to 1919 and he is approaching 950.  Stack that on top of averaging 20 wins & 275 innings a season as a pitcher Age 20-22 he still laps the field. as far as being an actual HOF player as either a pitcher or hitter.  The man may have won 400 games as a pitcher had he never come off the bump.

It is arguable he was one of the 10 greatest pitchers that ever lived along with being hands down the greatest hitter to ever grace the planet.

For those of you that love Ted Williams...know this he hit 200 more homers with only 400 more at bats than the Splinter and hit .342 vs .344.  Williams is probably the closet to him but still a pretty big gap.

@luv baseball posted:

Ruth did things that are impossible today such as out homering every team in the league....himself.

Noone will ever hit 200 homers unless we go to a 365 game season.  He also did it in the end of dead ball era - which makes you wonder what might have been if he'd have been hitting a live ball when he came up in 1914 and had played out field from the beginning.  From 1914 to 1917 he had about 400 at bats total and hit 9 homers.  In 1920 when he went full time OF in 458 at bats he hit 54 homers and averaged about 45 a year for the decade of the 1920's.

Add 45 homers a year from 1914 to 1919 and he is approaching 950.  Stack that on top of averaging 20 wins & 275 innings a season as a pitcher Age 20-22 he still laps the field. as far as being an actual HOF player as either a pitcher or hitter.  The man may have won 400 games as a pitcher had he never come off the bump.

It is arguable he was one of the 10 greatest pitchers that ever lived along with being hands down the greatest hitter to ever grace the planet.

For those of you that love Ted Williams...know this he hit 200 more homers with only 400 more at bats than the Splinter and hit .342 vs .344.  Williams is probably the closet to him but still a pretty big gap.

The only argument, and a valid argument, is that Williams missed three years in his prime to military service. Williams also played in a mostly integrated league. The knock on Ruth is that it's impossible to tell if he was that great or if he was playing against bad competition. When you hit more HRs than half the league it's tough to say.

Would Ruth have won the home run derby?

I think Ruth had huge power even by today's standards. The question is whether he would hit against 95 and tough breaking balls. Maybe he would strike out 30% today but the power I think is legit.

Ok, I'll play along with this game of..."what if".    On Saturday Night Live 4th season Episode 4 there was a skit called "What if Eleanor Roosevelt Could Fly".    Yes, I looked it up.  Steve Martin was hosting and Van Morrison was the musical guest.   Great episode, I watched it last night on Peacock.  This seems like the same "What If" discussion.

Ohtani is a great athlete and would have succeeded in any past generation.   Ohtani probably would have succeeded in many other sports due to his size, skills and athleticism.   The guy can pitch, hit for avg, hit for power,. and steal some bases.   I view him as representative of today's new "world athlete".   This is only go to open the door for other international and national athletes that want to follow Ohtani's lead.

Ruth had unique skills that are only valued in baseball.  He could pitch and hit the ball far in his generation.   We have no idea what the pitching metrics were like in his day.  How fast did pitchers pitch?  There wasn't the variety of pitches there are today.   Pitchers are in vastly better shape today with year round fitness, and nutrional requirements to maintain and extend contracts and careers.   Drinking beer and eating hotdogs isn't going to cut it in todays game unless your name is David Wells.  I don't see Ruth hitting todays professional pitchers.

Again, he was a  unicorn in his era.   Nobody came close.   Ohtani looks like a "unicorn" in his era, but let's not put that crown on him just yet.   Ohtani hasn't had the impact that Ruth had (yet) not because he lacks talent, he lacks years.   I'm skeptical that he can last more than a few years doing what he is doing today.   This is a great experiment, but today's game is so much faster and physical than it was in Ruth's day.  It is just a very different game.   This is why you can't compare them.

JMO.

I liked this quote from Gerrit Cole:

“We don’t start as pitchers only or position players only; we all want to do both. ... There’s a simplicity to him, just being able to fulfill that dream. Even as a pitcher now or as a hitter, a certain inner child in us would love to do all of it. He’s doing it.”

Fenway - not dismissing Ohtani in any way.  More pump the brakes a little on Ohtani.  He's 27 and hit 33 homers in 90 games.  It's not like that has never happened before or will again like next season by Vlad Jr or Tatis Jr.

Not sure what SNL or Eleanor Roosevelt has to do with anything so I'll chalk that up as a attempt to be clever.

Here's my effort at retort:

1968 Laugh In with Goldie Hawn in a bikini saying "Sock it to Me" tickled my funny bone.  Every one should buy the Time Warner box set it's hilarious. 

I think that people forget the towering figure Ruth truly was.  I know people want to talk about night games, velocity, integration, travel etc.  On the flip side there are 300 pitchers in the majors today that would have been minor leaguers in Ruths time.  Medicine and diet were jokes.  If Ruth came along today you would have to imagine he looks a lot more like Judge than Kruk.  When you hit .342 for 10000 plate appearances you are a complete hitter not just swinging for the fences. 

Either way Ohtani is putting on a show and will probably finish will 50+ homers and maybe 11/12 W's on the mound.  A great season to be sure but like Ruth before him he will eventually become a full time hitter and when he's done he might have some thing like 350-400 HR's between now and age 35.

In the end he is probably something more along the lines of Ralph Kiner than Ruth.  Probably a HOF career if he has a few truly dominant seasons like the one he's having now.   Unlike Kiner he will not lead the American League in homeruns from now until 2030 in fact it is unlikely he'll lead his own team in HR in the next 5 years if Trout is healthy.

Then there is this...Ruth's ERA is the 17th best of all time at 2,28 and he was just reaching his prime with 80 wins at age 23 when he started the conversion to full time OF.  By comparison Jake deGrom has 77 for his career and only 2 seasons where his ERA is lower than Ruths career mark.

Would Ruth dominate todays MLB the same way ...no he would not.  But at 6'2" and 215 properly fed and trained...he'd likely still be a dominant MVP type player today.  There were not many guys from 100 years ago that still would stack up physically but Ruth was one of them.