I think this is a great move for the Cubs. Now they will lose 7-6, instead of 7-3. With more run scoring, however, the games will take longer to play and they will be able to sell more beer at $6.50 a pop, thus paying some of that $135 million contract! Another great business decision in Chicago sports history.
wogdoggy,
Is this the best you can come up with? The lunch crowd at Ricobene's can do better than that!
How's that Boomer??
Is this the best you can come up with? The lunch crowd at Ricobene's can do better than that!
How's that Boomer??
Whether this was a business decision, a baseball decision or a combination of both shouldn't be eliciting so much angst from obvious Sox fans. Why do you guys even care? I say again, if the WS had acquired Soriano I can only imagine what would be said about how he was going to lead them back to the promised land.
This is 2006 and there is no longer any real rationale for player salaries. Last year, Hendry caught flack all over the place for what he paid Howry and Eyre. Now, a guy named Spier, 33 years old who wanted Howry money (3 yrs, $13 million) just signed for 4 years and $18 million. It is what it is. The Cubs targeted this year's best free agent and went out and signed him. Over and done.
This is 2006 and there is no longer any real rationale for player salaries. Last year, Hendry caught flack all over the place for what he paid Howry and Eyre. Now, a guy named Spier, 33 years old who wanted Howry money (3 yrs, $13 million) just signed for 4 years and $18 million. It is what it is. The Cubs targeted this year's best free agent and went out and signed him. Over and done.
No angst....
Just reality...
Y'all just acquired a malcontent that is one of the greatest power hitters....EVER.
Unfortunately he does not play well in the field and he is a "prima donna".
We shall see.
Just reality...
Y'all just acquired a malcontent that is one of the greatest power hitters....EVER.
Unfortunately he does not play well in the field and he is a "prima donna".
We shall see.
One thing for sure...for the first time since who knows when, the Cubs are truly making some good moves. There are more aquisistions to come, adn if the sox can hold up their end of the bargain, it will be an all-Chicago WS in 2007.
It will be a Cubs town again in 2007 and beyond. Just try to get a ticket next Feb. when the tickets go on sale.
It will be a Cubs town again in 2007 and beyond. Just try to get a ticket next Feb. when the tickets go on sale.
rosy....Fastball....sox....Been.....
I told you all, didn't I!!!!!!!
The "HOT STOVE LEAGUE" in Chicagoland is alive and well!
Really, when you think about it, we all have our love/hate feelings toward either the Sox or Cubs. What I really care about more than anything is the fact that we need to support either team against the east coast crowd. My boss is a Yankee fan. My sons college coach is a Yankee fan. TRhit is a Yankee, or is it Mets fan. That doesn't matter, he's crazy anyway. Love yuh TR!!!!!! It's Chicagos time for headlines and championships.
I was very happy that the Sox won the World Series, since I grew-up on the southside, BUT, I'll pull for the Cubs because I don't like St.Louis, the Phillies, Brewers, Padres, and especially the Giants. I would love to see a crosstown series. If the Cards and K.C. could do it, why can't we???????
I love you guys!!!!!!
I told you all, didn't I!!!!!!!
The "HOT STOVE LEAGUE" in Chicagoland is alive and well!
Really, when you think about it, we all have our love/hate feelings toward either the Sox or Cubs. What I really care about more than anything is the fact that we need to support either team against the east coast crowd. My boss is a Yankee fan. My sons college coach is a Yankee fan. TRhit is a Yankee, or is it Mets fan. That doesn't matter, he's crazy anyway. Love yuh TR!!!!!! It's Chicagos time for headlines and championships.
I was very happy that the Sox won the World Series, since I grew-up on the southside, BUT, I'll pull for the Cubs because I don't like St.Louis, the Phillies, Brewers, Padres, and especially the Giants. I would love to see a crosstown series. If the Cards and K.C. could do it, why can't we???????
I love you guys!!!!!!
TRHIT IS A BASEBALL FAN !!!!!! Case Closed
TRhit....
I'll beat most of these guys didn't watch ALL of the World Series games like me and you!!!
Some nights I seat and go through all of the teams in my sons conference, or check-out the schools that kids from his high school are going to play ball at. I read BA and Collegiate Baseball Newspaper. I checkout the summer leagues. Maybe it's weird, but I love this game, especially when a 5'-7", 165lb. shortstop wins the MVP of the World Series. What a great game!
I'll beat most of these guys didn't watch ALL of the World Series games like me and you!!!
Some nights I seat and go through all of the teams in my sons conference, or check-out the schools that kids from his high school are going to play ball at. I read BA and Collegiate Baseball Newspaper. I checkout the summer leagues. Maybe it's weird, but I love this game, especially when a 5'-7", 165lb. shortstop wins the MVP of the World Series. What a great game!
Boomer, you are a fan and that's what it's all about.
Boomer and Rosy......voices of reason.
Boomer and Rosy......voices of reason.
FastballDad......
I don't know about the "voice of reason" because I can mix-it-up with the best of 'um, but I just figure that it's o.k. to not like someone elses team, just try and appreciate what talent a particular player or team has. Personally, I see a certain amount of jealousy that comes from wishing "my team should have that guy", or "my team should have this guy", whether your a Sox or Cubs fan.
It's like when I was a kid (still am, ask my wife!), when one of the guys got a certain premier ball players baseball card in his Topps pack. All you would here was "boy are you lucky" or "I'll trade you two of my so-and-so's for him", or "three of my such-and such's for him". After awhile, saying he ain't that good anyway. That kind of jealousy. You know what I mean.
Of course, since we have all been hang'n around these boards for so long, I guess we need something to do in the off-season to keep us in shape.
O.K., let the 'bantering' continue!!!!!
I don't know about the "voice of reason" because I can mix-it-up with the best of 'um, but I just figure that it's o.k. to not like someone elses team, just try and appreciate what talent a particular player or team has. Personally, I see a certain amount of jealousy that comes from wishing "my team should have that guy", or "my team should have this guy", whether your a Sox or Cubs fan.
It's like when I was a kid (still am, ask my wife!), when one of the guys got a certain premier ball players baseball card in his Topps pack. All you would here was "boy are you lucky" or "I'll trade you two of my so-and-so's for him", or "three of my such-and such's for him". After awhile, saying he ain't that good anyway. That kind of jealousy. You know what I mean.
Of course, since we have all been hang'n around these boards for so long, I guess we need something to do in the off-season to keep us in shape.
O.K., let the 'bantering' continue!!!!!
My take:
The cubs have improved 10 games over last year by having Lee healthy and signing Soriano.
That gets them to 76 wins.
Glavine could add 5 and Schmidt 5...getting them into contention in the weak NL Central.
If they sign only 1 top starting pitcher it ain't gonna happen.
The cubs have improved 10 games over last year by having Lee healthy and signing Soriano.
That gets them to 76 wins.
Glavine could add 5 and Schmidt 5...getting them into contention in the weak NL Central.
If they sign only 1 top starting pitcher it ain't gonna happen.
Ok, so they improved 10 games for Soriano and Lee. (Should be more like 15 wins or more) 76 wins.
Add 10 more by subtracting Dusty (conservative estimate.) 86 wins
Add 10 more with Sweet Lou in charge. 96 wins
Add 5 more for one more starting pitcher. 101 wins
Add 5 more for two more starting pitchers 106 wins.
Not too mention Woody as closer....10 more wins
116 wins
Add 2 more wins vs. the white sox 118 wins....Cubs win 118 games in 2007!
Add 10 more by subtracting Dusty (conservative estimate.) 86 wins
Add 10 more with Sweet Lou in charge. 96 wins
Add 5 more for one more starting pitcher. 101 wins
Add 5 more for two more starting pitchers 106 wins.
Not too mention Woody as closer....10 more wins
116 wins
Add 2 more wins vs. the white sox 118 wins....Cubs win 118 games in 2007!
Fastballdad, I see you took "New Math" as well when you were a kid. Ruined our generation! LOL! 
Soxnole,
I don't think that there are any "real" top starting pitchers out there. They're gonna get paid like they are but are they really top guys? I think that Schmidt is probably the best, if he stays healthy which has been a problem (for him and for us). Zito is over the hill, IMO, just doesn't throw hard anymore. I expect the Cubs to go after a Meche, Ted Lilly or other type free agent and give it a go. Glavine might do but I think now he'll end up finishing with the Braves.
The top starting pitchers already belong to your White Sox. Yes, I really believe that. No, they didn't repeat, but their staff is loaded. So much so, that they may indeed decide to trade one for an upgrade at a postion. They are also in the enviable position of having some very highly rated young players in their upper minor leagues that other teams would covet. I'm not a fan at all of KW, I was a Danny Evans man, but if he sticks to his plan knowing that he can't throw around these new type dollars, your team will be fine, better than fine.
How's that Boomer?
I don't think that there are any "real" top starting pitchers out there. They're gonna get paid like they are but are they really top guys? I think that Schmidt is probably the best, if he stays healthy which has been a problem (for him and for us). Zito is over the hill, IMO, just doesn't throw hard anymore. I expect the Cubs to go after a Meche, Ted Lilly or other type free agent and give it a go. Glavine might do but I think now he'll end up finishing with the Braves.
The top starting pitchers already belong to your White Sox. Yes, I really believe that. No, they didn't repeat, but their staff is loaded. So much so, that they may indeed decide to trade one for an upgrade at a postion. They are also in the enviable position of having some very highly rated young players in their upper minor leagues that other teams would covet. I'm not a fan at all of KW, I was a Danny Evans man, but if he sticks to his plan knowing that he can't throw around these new type dollars, your team will be fine, better than fine.
How's that Boomer?
CoachB...if it were only that easy!
"Woody as closer"
you mean like "Sosa the loyal"
or "Steinbrenner the merciful"
or "Aramis the hustler"
or "Bartman the lucky charm"
You get the picture.
I never even got to know "Woody the Starter"
or ......................"Woody the healthy one"
Pitching cubbie dudes....you don't have any reliability on half of what decides the game.
you mean like "Sosa the loyal"
or "Steinbrenner the merciful"
or "Aramis the hustler"
or "Bartman the lucky charm"
You get the picture.
I never even got to know "Woody the Starter"
or ......................"Woody the healthy one"
Pitching cubbie dudes....you don't have any reliability on half of what decides the game.
oh don't be a killjoy soxnole
Fastballdad,
I like how you think !!
I like how you think !!
If wishing and hoping could only get it done!
I guess it gets a little old after 99 years!
I guess it gets a little old after 99 years!
2006 Cubs era - 4.74. That's with tons of rookes, AA & AAA guys getting experience and boatload of injuries.
2006 Sox era - 4.61. That's with WS tested vets and virtually no injuries.
Not too hard to project Cubs winning maybe 20 more games with slightly better pitching, a healthy Lee and addition of Soriano. Also, a manager with a heartbeat and a little knowledge could be worth 5-10 games.
That said, it's still the Cubs and they have managed to screw up everything for 100 years so we'll just have to wait and see.
Have a nice Thanksgiving everyone.
2006 Sox era - 4.61. That's with WS tested vets and virtually no injuries.
Not too hard to project Cubs winning maybe 20 more games with slightly better pitching, a healthy Lee and addition of Soriano. Also, a manager with a heartbeat and a little knowledge could be worth 5-10 games.
That said, it's still the Cubs and they have managed to screw up everything for 100 years so we'll just have to wait and see.
Have a nice Thanksgiving everyone.
Denis....lets not forget that in the NL, the cubs get to face 8 hitters each time around the line up while the Sox and AL teams face 9!
A 11.12% advantage.
Thus, arguably, 4.74 becomes 5.27....or 4.61 becomes 4.10
An analysis many don't realize or forget to consider when making comparisons.
A 11.12% advantage.
Thus, arguably, 4.74 becomes 5.27....or 4.61 becomes 4.10
An analysis many don't realize or forget to consider when making comparisons.
An aside for a moment. Does anyone else out there feel as happy for Gary Matthews Jr. as I do? I just love this young man. What an accomplishment to have been a jouneyman for a long while and to finally get the big reward. I'm sure Sarge is awfully proud of his little boy. Good job Jr!
Now, the comments by Keith Law, writer for ESPN.com on the Dodgers signing of Juan Pierre.
"The early contender for the worst contract of the offseason has to be the five-year deal just handed to Juan Pierre by the LA Dodgers, who are working as diligently as possible to undo all the good work done to their farm system over the last 5 years.....On a good team he's a bench player--even at his current level of ability; if he can't run, he's a 4A player....His ideal role will be as a defensive replacement/pinch runner...He belongs hitting 8th in the Dodger lineup...."
I guess he doesn't like him. LOL.
Now, the comments by Keith Law, writer for ESPN.com on the Dodgers signing of Juan Pierre.
"The early contender for the worst contract of the offseason has to be the five-year deal just handed to Juan Pierre by the LA Dodgers, who are working as diligently as possible to undo all the good work done to their farm system over the last 5 years.....On a good team he's a bench player--even at his current level of ability; if he can't run, he's a 4A player....His ideal role will be as a defensive replacement/pinch runner...He belongs hitting 8th in the Dodger lineup...."
I guess he doesn't like him. LOL.
Soxnole...there is some things you are forgetting in your analysis. Pitchers do not hit nearly as often as position players because they are pinch hit for as well as hitting in the #9 spot in the order. (Or maybe they no longer pinch hit in the AL or have to take out a starter because they fell behind early)They also do not hit .000 which would also be necessary for your 11.12 % advantage to be valid. On the Cubs for instance, Juan Pierre had 699 at bats. Carlos Zambrano who had more at bats than any other pitcher on the team had 73. His impact was 1/10 that of Pierre in 1/5 of the games......simply put, cut your 11.12 advantage to 5.56 and that's with pithcers hitting .000, which of course Zambrano did not.
Would you rather face a bona-fide pinch hitter in the 9 spot or some light hitting second baseman or shortsop hitting in the 9 spot in the AL?
Would you rather face a bona-fide pinch hitter in the 9 spot or some light hitting second baseman or shortsop hitting in the 9 spot in the AL?
FBD,
A very concise and mathematically correct premise.
Have a happy Thanksgiving Holiday!
A very concise and mathematically correct premise.
Have a happy Thanksgiving Holiday!
FB....I understand your thinking.
However, the batting average of the pitcher matters not.
I'm saying that the % of pitcher at bats is signifigant. I'll accept the 5.56% which means that pitcers would have to bat in the 9 spot half of the time.
There is a way that we could figure it out but I'm too lazy. Hopefully you see where I was headed. It's tougher to pitch in the AL.
However, the batting average of the pitcher matters not.
I'm saying that the % of pitcher at bats is signifigant. I'll accept the 5.56% which means that pitcers would have to bat in the 9 spot half of the time.
There is a way that we could figure it out but I'm too lazy. Hopefully you see where I was headed. It's tougher to pitch in the AL.
Soxnole, I do agree that right now it is tougher on the pitchers in The AL for the most part. I do think there are things that are very hard to figure in. One thing is that in The NL, when a pitcher falls behind early in a game, he is not likely going to get a chance to settle down and continue, let alone finish. In The AL, the kind of pitcher that gets stronger as the game goes on often gets that chance even if he is behind.
A couple other points.....1. Perhaps there are more hitters in The AL right now. This is cyclical and of course will change. 2. The perception in the NL is that you have to play old-school offensively....due in part to the lack of a DH. NL teams are more likely to bunt and play other types of small ball. In the AL you have more teams loading up the lineup with pure hitters and sluggers trying to wear down the opposing pitcher. The Cubs look like they are moving in that direction.
Of course we won't even bother to talk about how the DH has ruined pro baseball.
A couple other points.....1. Perhaps there are more hitters in The AL right now. This is cyclical and of course will change. 2. The perception in the NL is that you have to play old-school offensively....due in part to the lack of a DH. NL teams are more likely to bunt and play other types of small ball. In the AL you have more teams loading up the lineup with pure hitters and sluggers trying to wear down the opposing pitcher. The Cubs look like they are moving in that direction.
Of course we won't even bother to talk about how the DH has ruined pro baseball.
I understand your problem with the DH.
At the same time it has become obvious that the DH is here to stay.
MLB's over the top success, reflected in the crazy contracts being signed this year on a daily basis is one more nail in the old school coffin.
I'm not sure I like the fact that home runs rule the day instead of sound pitching and defense.
Testing for HGH might swing it back the other way....but will it ever happen?
Not with these owners and their puppet Selig in the drivers seat!
At the same time it has become obvious that the DH is here to stay.
MLB's over the top success, reflected in the crazy contracts being signed this year on a daily basis is one more nail in the old school coffin.
I'm not sure I like the fact that home runs rule the day instead of sound pitching and defense.
Testing for HGH might swing it back the other way....but will it ever happen?
Not with these owners and their puppet Selig in the drivers seat!
Right about who is running MLB and how they are doing. $$$$$$ are being made hand over fist, but there are times when you can't help but make money. Happens in Real Estate and the Market as well. MLB is making money despite their leadership.
I have to agree with that last post 100%.
I have to agree with that last post 100%.
By the end of the week, The Cubs 
will be odds on favorites to win the WS!
Just when you thought in '06 things were going down the tubes, '07 and a World Championship comes along.
Just when you thought in '06 things were going down the tubes, '07 and a World Championship comes along.
Can you say...."delusional"?
FBD,
I'm a little worried but not yet delusional. I think that the Yankees will win the 2 team battle for Ted Lilly. With Schmidt off the board that kind of leaves Gil Meche out there. I wouldn't pay Zito what he thinks he's worth even with your money, but someone will. If Hendry wants Lilly, he'll have to simply overpay (as if $10 million isn't already overpaying). That's what happens when you're a buyer in a sellers market.
FBD, after that snowstorm maybe you can loan Hendry a few bucks to make this deal work.
I'm a little worried but not yet delusional. I think that the Yankees will win the 2 team battle for Ted Lilly. With Schmidt off the board that kind of leaves Gil Meche out there. I wouldn't pay Zito what he thinks he's worth even with your money, but someone will. If Hendry wants Lilly, he'll have to simply overpay (as if $10 million isn't already overpaying). That's what happens when you're a buyer in a sellers market.
FBD, after that snowstorm maybe you can loan Hendry a few bucks to make this deal work.
Rosy, you have the problem of thinking there is any kind of sense in the amount of money these guys are getting. I'm betting they get Lilly and the other pitcher will have to come in a deal. That will cost because they will have to pay a big chunk of Jone's salary to get rid of him but again it's only money and money they have.
Jones, Pie, a young pitcher or two and some money will bring the pitcher they need. There is no point to going only halfway crazy with the money....all or none. I also think another hitter or two is on the way.
Jones, Pie, a young pitcher or two and some money will bring the pitcher they need. There is no point to going only halfway crazy with the money....all or none. I also think another hitter or two is on the way.
FBD, You're right. There is no sense to be made of this new plateau of salaries. I don't agree with you, however, that Hendry will trade Pie. I say, go out and sign ageless Kenny Lofton for one year and let him hit 7th in the order, just ahead of Izturis. He can still play CF better than most and still swing the stick. Don't move Soriano to CF. He'll be feeling enough pressure in his first season with the Cubs. As for Jacques Jones, one man's garbage is another man's treasure. We can hope.
Well, The Cubs signed Lilly and the pieces continue to fall into place. 10 Million a year....not too shabby. Talk now about getting Cliff Floyd as a platoon player. I think the next pitcher may well coem from the white sox.
We'll see.
We'll see.
WOW...Ted Lilly. All excited about a 500 pitcher with a history of arm troubles. PERFECT fit for Cubs; right along side Prior, Wood and Miller; hope the Cubs have a good HMO plan.
Per FOX Sports....
Lefty Ted Lilly and the Cubs have agreed on a four-year $40 million deal. Cubs GM Jim Hendry apparently sealed the deal from a local hospital, where he was being treated for what was believed to be indigestion. Reports have it that tests on the GM have come back negative and he's doing well.
LOOKS LIKE HENDRY'S ULCER IS ALREADY STARTING..
Lefty Ted Lilly and the Cubs have agreed on a four-year $40 million deal. Cubs GM Jim Hendry apparently sealed the deal from a local hospital, where he was being treated for what was believed to be indigestion. Reports have it that tests on the GM have come back negative and he's doing well.
LOOKS LIKE HENDRY'S ULCER IS ALREADY STARTING..
Who is to say Lou can still manage? Look what happened to Dusty when he put on the Cubbie blue. Didn't see Lou win in Seattle, and he had horses there.