The D1 Trap

Yes, there is such a thing and you have described two possible scenarios pretty well.  The first is more easily avoided than the second.  All else being equal (although it never is), if comparing a historically bad D1 baseball program to a good D2, D3, etc., it's not that difficult to imagine what the baseball experience will be and make a smart choice.  

However, to your second scenario, most players aspiring to play high level baseball are very competitive.  So, if recruited even "lightly" by D1, good chance they will to want the opportunity to compete at that level and they probably believe they are capable of earning playing time.  So, only after they have gone through your scenario of freshman bench and then "the talk" do they find themselves in the position to either transfer or set baseball aside.

You've been given all the right tools to help your son with an objective analysis.  Sounds like he is getting feedback from his targets.  It's still not an exact science.  And there is still "bigger challenge/risk" vs "safer/better odds".

@cabbagedad posted:

 However, to your second scenario, most players aspiring to play high level baseball are very competitive.  So, if recruited even "lightly" by D1, good chance they will to want the opportunity to compete at that level and they probably believe they are capable of earning playing time.  So, only after they have gone through your scenario of freshman bench and then "the talk" do they find themselves in the position to either transfer or set baseball aside.

 

I'm probably too much of a bird in the hand guy and risk adverse. I would rather go play somewhere for 4 years where I know that I can play and succeed rather than roll the dice, shoot for the stars, and come up empty - especially when you only have 4 years left to play.

What kind of summer ball opportunities are there for the non pitching mid to low D1 players?

I don't know about any traps or internal rationalization. But if playing as a freshman is the most important thing on your son's checklist, he needs to go to the school that gives him the best opportunity to do so. A lot of people feel entitled to playing time as a freshman. For the most part, the only level where you are expected to contribute the second you walk on campus is the JC level for obvious reasons.   There is a reason a lot of freshman don't get great playing time. It's hard. 

What happens if you commit to a D2 and don't get the 20 ABs you were expecting to get? Was it a year wasted as well? The coach at the D2 is no different than the coach at the D1. He needs to win and the second his recruit starts the season hitting .208 the next recruiting pitch to some high schooler will be come here, you'll have the chance to play right away. 

You have to perform wherever you go, nothing is given and promises are often empty if you don't produce the way you were expected to. Choose a school you think you'll have the most success at both on and off the field. 

@PABaseball posted:

I don't know about any traps or internal rationalization. But if playing as a freshman is the most important thing on your son's checklist, he needs to go to the school that gives him the best opportunity to do so. A lot of people feel entitled to playing time as a freshman. For the most part, the only level where you are expected to contribute the second you walk on campus is the JC level for obvious reasons.   There is a reason a lot of freshman don't get great playing time. It's hard. 

What happens if you commit to a D2 and don't get the 20 ABs you were expecting to get? Was it a year wasted as well? The coach at the D2 is no different than the coach at the D1. He needs to win and the second his recruit starts the season hitting .208 the next recruiting pitch to some high schooler will be come here, you'll have the chance to play right away. 

You have to perform wherever you go, nothing is given and promises are often empty if you don't produce the way you were expected to. Choose a school you think you'll have the most success at both on and off the field. 

I am glad this was written.  I was about to post something similar but this is very well said.

Great title: A couple of additional points as far as risks:

I would add that depending on the D2 there are serious "D1 drop down" risks, where many of the top D2 programs bring in D1 drop downs who can take a open position at the last minute in the fall and even established players can end up on the bench just prior to the season. 

Do not underestimate the talent levels at the perennial top 20 D2 and D3 programs. They are loaded with "D1" talent and getting playing time can be just as tough as a D1. 

Consider major: STEM is almost impossible at most D1's. Take this into account in recruiting. It was a big mistake we made in my son's recruiting and we wasted a lot of time talking to schools he had no chance at playing at because of his major.

If the player is underdeveloped go to a place where he can be afforded the time to develop. 

As hard as it is for a HS player (and his parents) try to match future skills with the target schools.  

I think we’re all here to learn and help educate our kids on the process, but it feels as though some of the discussion happens in a vacuum.

@Francis7 asks “Wouldn't you rather play for a good D2 or D3 and have a more positive experience?”  I sure would. So would many others. But it’s negligent to omit the fact that I’m 45 and my son is 17.  He turns 18 in June and will be an adult - legally. But he’ll still be a child at heart and certainly of mind.  He’s going the JUCO route but he is absolutely enamored with the bright lights of D1 and right now can’t see much else. But this is his life to lead and I want nothing other than that at this point.

The world needs some kids to fall into the “D1 trap.”  Go talk to some who have and listen to their stories. Listen to their struggles, their pain and their regrets. Then look at what all the obstacles did for them. What they learned. Their growth. What making the “wrong” decision did for them the rest of their lives. 

Don’t get me wrong. I’m here to educate myself and pass along information and some recommendations to my son just like everyone else. I don’t want my son to fail, have regrets, etc.  But what I want MOST, is for his life to be the result of the choices HE’s made. The greatest successes and the toughest of failures. 

The "D1 trap" typically starts with the high school player (and parents) thinking he is better than he is compared to college players, and not understanding the hard work required to get on a college field at any level.  Not understanding your skill level is fundamental to the "D1 trap".   

As always, JMO

@DanJ I couldn't agree more. At this stage in their lives, the young men have to own this decision and its consequences. And sometimes the hardest circumstances lead to the biggest growth. Nothing is guaranteed at any level and the second a kid thinks that it is guaranteed, they lose their competitive edge. My daughter had the hardest time narrowing her college list down based on the normal factors (size, location, majors, etc.) so we went through scenarios...do you want basketball to be a vehicle to the absolute best schools out there, do you want to show up on day one knowing you are going to be a GOAT at the school, do you want to go to a school with the absolute highest basketball reputation where you may not play, or do you want to go where both the academics and the athletics challenge you, knowing that you may not play as much as you'd like but that you have a shot. She chose the last one and based on her ability that narrowed her list down considerably. That's when we started focusing on the reputation of the school, coaching staff, conference, etc.. She got some playing time her freshman year and ended up as a starting guard her sophomore year at Northwestern University in the Big 10. She probably would have been a 6th man except for an injury. She showed up on campus knowing she would have to work her rear off to earn  playing time. She continues to work hard because each year they bring new players in. She took the starting position from a junior so she knows the girls behind her could very well do the same to her. We know that it very well might have gone another way--there are some great players sitting on the bench there, but I will say even the girls who don't get a lot of playing time love the school, love their teammates and are getting an amazing education. 

My son wanted to play with and against the best competition. Does that mean he may never play? Very possibly, but that's what his goal was. He decided he would never reach his full potential without doing that. We also took several visits to make sure his top choice would also be a good fit as a school for him. He's seen the grind with his sister. He knows what he is facing. I will circle back in a couple of years and let you know if it worked or not. But ultimately it was his decision. He had to believe in himself and we had to believe in him. He will continue to work his rear off and if it doesn't work out hopefully he's selected a place where he can flourish outside of baseball. If not, we will go from there.

FWIW, their oldest sister could have played basketball probably on the cusp of a lower tier D1 or at the D2/D3 level. She looked that the kind of school she wanted to go to and decided that basketball would limit where she went and chose to go as a NARP (non-athletic regular person...LOL) and is happy as a lark at Notre Dame. She gets her basketball fix managing women's basketball and couldn't be happier.

As much as possible, arm the boys with information, set appropriate limits (especially around cost), and then stand by them when they make their choice.

@2022NYC posted:

What kind of summer ball opportunities are there for the non pitching mid to low D1 players?

Not as much demand as P's but this is actually an area where it can be beneficial to be a D1 player regardless of where you fall on the depth chart.  Many of the summer leagues are looking to enhance their reputation and part of that is to be able to list roster players from D1 schools.  

@PTWood with a great post as usual. Thank you for laying it out that way. It sure is an individual decision and also one they will own, with some guardrails like budget of course. Going through this with son right now. I'm kind of getting relieved by him taking the lead with what he wants, actually. It's fun observing that maturation process.

I strongly believe that the size of the  commitment determines how many at bats and innings you will get to play. Those players will get many chances, others might as well, but if you do not produce in the long run, you will be asked to leave. That happens in all programs.

I believe that coaches are pretty aware during the recruiting process of who will regularly play and who will not. Not everyone will be ranked PG 10. Having too many chiefs on the roster and not enough Indians, doesn't work. Do you guys think that all players at Vandy get to play regularly. No, but they are there for the Vandy degree and don't mind sitting. Everyone has different expectations.

If you are getting more D2 or D3 sincere interest than D1, maybe your chances of being "that" guy is better at those programs. On their boards you may be their "A" guys.

Sometimes, very often at D1, you will not get as many chances as you feel you deserve. The roles of catcher, SS are probably the hardest position to play regularly as a freshman, if you can hit and pitch, you should be worth more to a mid D1 or D2. So make sure that you understand what you need to do to not wait 3 years to be the regular guy. If thats ok, then its ok.  Don't let anyone say it's not.

I don't know if that makes sense, just been my observation as we have discussed this many, many times.

It's not always easy, in fact for most it is not.

Once again, going where you can get baseball to help you with paying for your degree, is the most important thing to take into consideration.  

JMO

Oh the hypotheticals. 

At some point you just roll the dice. If you knew what was going to happen, you wouldn't have to get out of bed in the morning. And you would be a billionaire. 

Every baseball player ever was told at some point he wasn't good enough. Unless he retired/quit/or didn't try at all.

Make a spreadsheet, tic the boxes, add up the scores.  And then roll the dice.

One way to avoid the "D1 Trap" is to go to a school where you have a legitimate shot at playing, making an impact, or even starting as a freshman.  I think too many kids go into a program recognizing that they don't yet have the size, speed, strength or skills to compete right away, but believe they will grow into the talent that can make it on the field.  They believe that sitting as a freshman is fine since the future is theirs.  The future is probably not theirs, it likely belongs to the kid (non-senior) who is playing ahead of him, or an incoming recruit who jumps ahead of him, or maybe a JC kid who transfers in.  I think sophomores with zero at-bats or innings pitched are in the most vulnerable position on the roster.

@Francis7 posted:

For the kid attending the historically very weak D1 baseball program, unless you love the school, is it going to be any fun to play there and lose all the time?  That sounds more like drudgery than a positive experience.

Wouldn't you rather play for a good D2 or D3 and have a more positive experience?

Wouldn't it have been better for this player to go to a D2 or D3 where he knew he had a chance to play as a freshman and see what he could do? 

Lots of posts so far, but I was waiting for the "40 year" benefit of going to  XUniversity based on the degree you receive. If you are a player whose sole focus is on the baseball side and you don't "fish in the right pond", you'll be disappointed. If a player isn't that PG10 and goes to P5 school with nice team stuff, and isn't at the high end recruit coming in (or is experiencing a logjam at your position), he likely won't get many ABs. That's why, what if baseball doesn't pan out, do you still like the school selected?

As for "going to a losing program" son saw its benefits with opportunities and also how quickly a school can turn around in W & L based upon a good recruiting class or two. Are you ok, sitting the bench of a good program, or better of earning playing time with a program on the upswing?

Good discussion here- making charts of schools that are reaches, safety,etc. is similar baseball-wise as it is the scholastic (SAT score, grades, awards,extracurriculars, etc) . As BOF mentioned, major/area comes into play--is it offered? encouraged? Probably confess, that son fell into the "Trap" and was probably set to go to HA D3, if nothing materialized by end of August prior to senior year, in the 2 D1 conferences he was vetting. I think he too was motivated by his HS coach's belief that he would never play D1. Go visit or stream games by schools of interest--quite beneficial. Also don't rely on one person's evaluation. As some posters have realized there is a "gamut" of levels of play in D1, D2, D3. Not all are alike.

@2022NYC posted:

What kind of summer ball opportunities are there for the non pitching mid to low D1 players?

There ARE opportunities.  1)  Do the coaches have relationships with the summer organizations?  2)  Has the school sent players to those summer ball organizations in the past?  3)  Is the player good enough for those summer teams?

Son went to a mid-major D1.  He made a difference to the team.  He was placed in a so-so summer ball program in his freshman fall for after freshman year, but didn't go due to two surgeries.  After a good freshman year, that fall he was placed in the Northwoods League.  Couldn't have been a better fit, and son did well.

He was scheduled to go to the Cape after his junior year, but got drafted.  

Some players played in local summer ball programs. Other players opted for jobs and internships.  Some had to find their own summer teams.  

Remember, the coach has HIS reputation on the line to send good players to the higher level summer programs.  But ask the coach what opportunities are available in the summer.

(Go to summer ball rosters to see where the kids are coming from)

Great, great advice given already.

Even at D3, you really need to do your research and understand the way they do things, and get yourself out of the mindset that you are going to be the “exception to the rule”

Some of the non-HA D3 powerhouses that regularly compete for the National Championship will redshirt players their freshman year, and will also bring in JUCO guys and D1 drop downs.  Know what you are getting into... you may be paying for 5 years of school to get 4 years of Baseball, and for a lot of players maybe only 2 years of playing time.  Obviously, work incredibly hard with the intent to compete prior to getting on campus, but if you don’t make the travel roster freshman year and coach says he wants to redshirt you, and you act like that’s catastrophic and drama filled and “Oh My God!”, you just didn’t do your homework going in.

And if you are thinking about going to a school like that, do your homework on the academic side, too, make sure they have graduate level courses in your intended field of study, so that if you are there a 5th year you are knocking those away and building for your future.  Taking 5 years to get a 4 year degree at Jock U, with no graduate level credits, is just dumb business.

@PABaseball posted:

You have to perform wherever you go, nothing is given and promises are often empty if you don't produce the way you were expected to. Choose a school you think you'll have the most success at both on and off the field. 

So I'm going to hijack this post somewhat, or a lot maybe, LOL.

I was going to post this on the Latin American vs US players thread but just got sidetracked. So according to the scout the kid trains with at times, this is one of the big problems in the development of stateside baseball players. College coaches feel such pressure to win that they don't put any effort into player development. If a player doesn't perform right away it's on to the next player, no effort put into understanding why that player didn't perform. I have to say that in my experience with the kid that's true. At his first college there was an effort put into the pitchers, PP/hitting not so much. Yeah, they did drills and BP but that isn't necessarily player development. I'm not trying to place all the blame on college coaches. I understand they have bills to pay and they rely on their job to do that. So it is what it is. That said I'll tell this story. After a fall game, this scout told the kids about getting his last promotion. His boss came to him sometime after and was like "dude, we give you this promotion most people would die for and what do you do, go play baseball with a bunch of kids". He told the kids I feel like I have to. When you get to us you're so raw and so far behind players from the DR/Mexico/Cuba it's not funny.

The odds aren’t the same for everyone. Some players are studs and future top ten round draft picks. But overall, if you go D1 there’s a 50/50 chance it won’t work out at your first stop. But the player has to go in believing he will be the one who wins or he might as well not show up. 

The same thing applies to D2 if D2 is a little bit of a reach. Or D3 if not a top D3 prospect. 

If you’re not a top prospect to go pro what do you want to get out of college? I hope it’s a degree and a shot at a good job.

Good stuff the only thing I disagree with is  playing time as a freshmen. If you are not getting at least some playing time as a freshmen then you are at risk. Top programs, regardless of level are looking for: 1) Freshmen who can contribute right away or (wonder boys)... 2) Are projected to contribute as Soph on. 

If you are not getting some playing time as a freshmen the risk that wonder boy freshmen comes in and takes "your" spot (ha ha) or you are not catching the eye of the coaching staff and are part of their plans. Top P5 programs are basically looking for a 3 year commitment for their top players and losing them to the draft. 

This advice is based on the top programs regardless of level. Lower level programs have a longer development cycles but the likelihood of a player getting much athletic money in those circumstances is pretty low IMO. 

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

So I'm going to hijack this post somewhat, or a lot maybe, LOL.

I was going to post this on the Latin American vs US players thread but just got sidetracked. So according to the scout the kid trains with at times, this is one of the big problems in the development of stateside baseball players. College coaches feel such pressure to win that they don't put any effort into player development. If a player doesn't perform right away it's on to the next player, no effort put into understanding why that player didn't perform. I have to say that in my experience with the kid that's true. 

It's possible. I don't know enough about the ins and outs of MLB and MiLB talent, but I can pretty much guarantee most college coaches don't care about the current state of development among American born players. 

I know in our program there is very little development. Sure coaches will work with somebody every now and then, but the idea is that we're going to have competition in the form of scrimmages and live ABs and the best players will show why they're the best. Why develop if you can go the juco route and pick up a kid who can walk in right away and make a difference? 

I don't know if that is the best method or not, but the coach has bills to pay and if he didn't think it were the best method he probably would have stopped doing it quite early in his career. 

A lot of coaches are great at filling out a line up, but when it comes to developing talent, not so much. And that's because it's not easy, and the pay off isn't immediate, whereas, like SomeBaseballDad noted, "If a player doesn't perform right away it's on to the next player."

There are coaches in high places that have stumbled across great talent, and they're touted as great because of the association with the player being there. However, and I mean this with all due respect, the great players are going to be great, regardless of most coaches. Having a great player does not mean the coach is also great. How is the development of the middle and lower tier of the line up?

With regards to the OP, I've nothing substantial to add that others haven't already said.

@BOF posted:

Good stuff the only thing I disagree with is  playing time as a freshmen. If you are not getting at least some playing time as a freshmen then you are at risk. Top programs, regardless of level are looking for: 1) Freshmen who can contribute right away or (wonder boys)... 2) Are projected to contribute as Soph on. 

If you are not getting some playing time as a freshmen the risk that wonder boy freshmen comes in and takes "your" spot (ha ha) or you are not catching the eye of the coaching staff and are part of their plans. Top P5 programs are basically looking for a 3 year commitment for their top players and losing them to the draft. 

This advice is based on the top programs regardless of level. Lower level programs have a longer development cycles but the likelihood of a player getting much athletic money in those circumstances is pretty low IMO. 

Even more of a challenge this season, it appears.  Lots of the freshman at-bats, innings come in early tournaments and in the midweek games. I keep reading the P5's may not have midweek games and only one or two out of conference tournaments.

@BOF posted:

Great title: A couple of additional points as far as risks:

I would add that depending on the D2 there are serious "D1 drop down" risks, where many of the top D2 programs bring in D1 drop downs who can take a open position at the last minute in the fall and even established players can end up on the bench just prior to the season. 

Do not underestimate the talent levels at the perennial top 20 D2 and D3 programs. They are loaded with "D1" talent and getting playing time can be just as tough as a D1. 

Consider major: STEM is almost impossible at most D1's. Take this into account in recruiting. It was a big mistake we made in my son's recruiting and we wasted a lot of time talking to schools he had no chance at playing at because of his major.

If the player is underdeveloped go to a place where he can be afforded the time to develop. 

As hard as it is for a HS player (and his parents) try to match future skills with the target schools.  

Please elaborate more on you STEM major comment.  Did the institution’s just not have the major, or was it the policy of the coach that players could not take those majors?

I hammered my kid to ask the coach about majors. Don't just look at the current roster. Of course if he comes back to me and wants to pick an unemployable major, there will be a loan application waiting for him.  

@Around_The_Horn posted:

Please elaborate more on you STEM major comment.  Did the institution’s just not have the major, or was it the policy of the coach that players could not take those majors?

Maybe Fenwaysouth can elaborate here, too.  If he doesn't show up, PM him.

STEM has a lot of labs.  Labs take up a lot of time.  Many get their science classes and labs in during the fall semester, but many classes are two semesters long and those labs run into practice time, games, travel, etc.  

My guy dropped his science classes after the first week.  He hardly had time to eat as it was.

@Around_The_Horn posted:

Please elaborate more on you STEM major comment.  Did the institution’s just not have the major, or was it the policy of the coach that players could not take those majors?

Thanks keewart.  Both BOF's son and my son were engineering majors at different schools that have strong engineering programs.   You'll never find a formal rule prohibiting the recruitment of STEM majors but we found a number of schools became suddenly very uninterested in further recruitment.  Bottom line is that it is a huge time committment to be a STEM major.   Coaches want that time spent on baseball.   Some programs are not very flexible around that.   It took us considerable more recruiting time to find the right fit both academically and athletically because my son wanted to be a STEM major.   We found a program that offered the best of both worlds.   You need to be very sure the coach will support a STEM major, and you can verify by looking at his current roster.  I'm very familiar with BOF and his son's situation, and I think he would say the same thing probably word for word.  

Good luck!

I'm always enamored by the "D1 trap" conversation.  Even in this post, it's the kids or parents fault for believing in the hype.  IMO, that's BS.  D1 coaches don't offer scholly's to every kid that comes to their camps.  They offer the kids THEY feel like can help the program.  If the kid flames out, why can't it simply be "it just didn't work out"?  I would argue that most times, there was no way either the kid, the parent, or the coach saw it coming.  Maybe it was school, maybe it was girls, maybe it was the town, etc, etc.  

Let me flip the question:  if you, as a parent, take a high paying job that doesn't work out, do you go come and ask yourself why you didn't stay at that mid-level job where you were successful?  No you don't!  You're disappointed, but you pick yourself up and move on to whatever is next.

This is the same conversation with the entire JUCO crowd.  Yes, JUCO is great, and it's a great spot for a lot of kids.  But you have JUCO zealots screaming that every kid should go to JUCO, which just isn't true for many!

Kids should go where they "believe" they can compete and develop!  Sorry for the rant . . .but stop being so judgmental on a kid that took a shot at his dream it simply didn't work out. 

@fenwaysouth posted:

Thanks keewart.  Both BOF's son and my son were engineering majors at different schools that have strong engineering programs.   You'll never find a formal rule prohibiting the recruitment of STEM majors but we found a number of schools became suddenly very uninterested in further recruitment.  Bottom line is that it is a huge time committment to be a STEM major.   Coaches want that time spent on baseball.   Some programs are not very flexible around that.   It took us considerable more recruiting time to find the right fit both academically and athletically because my son wanted to be a STEM major.   We found a program that offered the best of both worlds.   You need to be very sure the coach will support a STEM major, and you can verify by looking at his current roster.  I'm very familiar with BOF and his son's situation, and I think he would say the same thing probably word for word.  

Good luck!

My son was also a STEM (chem engineering) major. You can gain a great deal of insight by looking at the rosters and/or talking with some of the current players on the team. The baseball "commitment" (practice times, expectations) were similar to schools son looked at.

What really was a Big Factor on whether STEM is possible is the conference travel schedule. Some schools son vetted had conference covering several states and required regular plane trips. Fortunately for son, his conference devoted Monday as a non-practice day (players would go to the field/work out though). Also midweek games were with schools located a small busride away. Monday became a lab-day for athletes who were given first dibs at these day time slots. Now if there was a rainout on Sunday, you may miss a lab, so you did have to be flexible and keep your professors in the loop.

Another good discussion here, though I feel like this is about the fourth thread to ask the same basic question: is it better to stretch to a D1 program, even a 'bad' one, or choose a D2 or D3 on the theory that the baseball opportunities are better?

The problem with this hypothetical question, as revealed by all these thoughtful answers, is that there is no way to generalize your way to a good answer. There are just too many variables in college and college baseball. The specifics really matter. My son has a friend who was a bubble D1/D2 player and chose to go D2 for the better chance to get playing time. Two weeks ago the school eliminated the entire athletic department due to virus driven financial problems. Talk about a trap.

As others have said, there's simply no way to make a risk-free decision here. I helped my son make his decision and I sure hope it was a good one, but we will have to wait and see how it goes. You (meaning your kid) needs to do the homework, prioritize his wishes and make the most informed choice he can make, knowing that he can't really know everything that will determine how it's going to work out. I don't know if there's a D1 "trap," but I do think focusing excessively on the trade offs between baseball divisions or conferences increases the risk of choosing a college for the wrong reasons.

My son did the D1 thing out of high school. Injured Junior year of HS, had an incredible HS senior year at a regionally powerhouse baseball program in Texas. He got quite a bit of offers from JUCO, NAIA, and one D1. He dreamed of playing D1 and chose the only D1 offer and went to a SWAC school. Last year as a Freshman, he ended up getting alot of innings during COVID shortened season and ended with a 2-0 record, one win against a top 5 opponent. With that said, it just wasn't a good fit for him from a program standpoint and a school standpoint. Although a gamble, my son went into transfer portal and ended up a really good JUCO program and with his year of eligibility back as a Freshman again, he's looking to go back to a D1 that offers better then what he had the first go around. Remember, not all kids leave because of playing time. In a perfect world, players don't get injured, they ball out during peak times as HS Juniors and get the offers they were looking for. But in alot of cases, like ours, maybe we didn't do enough homework, didn't show enough, etc. 

My take on what you call the D1 trap is the kids that have a crappy work ethic and attitude. I've noticed most them get left behind. Mental game is another big one. Most Freshman aren't mentally prepared for D1. They show weakness and the others prey on that weakness. Hands on hips during Fall workouts, complaining about physical workouts, weightlifting, practice, etc.. You'd be surprised at what my son told me about the weak minded players. Cut, redshirted, loss of scholarship, loss of playing time, etc.. If you choose D1 and have that opportunity, you better be prepared because momma and daddy can't help you. (Last part was meant to be funny, but true)

@LeftyDadP9 posted:

I'm always enamored by the "D1 trap" conversation.  Even in this post, it's the kids or parents fault for believing in the hype.  IMO, that's BS.  D1 coaches don't offer scholly's to every kid that comes to their camps.  They offer the kids THEY feel like can help the program.  If the kid flames out, why can't it simply be "it just didn't work out"?  I would argue that most times, there was no way either the kid, the parent, or the coach saw it coming.  Maybe it was school, maybe it was girls, maybe it was the town, etc, etc.  

Let me flip the question:  if you, as a parent, take a high paying job that doesn't work out, do you go come and ask yourself why you didn't stay at that mid-level job where you were successful?  No you don't!  You're disappointed, but you pick yourself up and move on to whatever is next.

This is the same conversation with the entire JUCO crowd.  Yes, JUCO is great, and it's a great spot for a lot of kids.  But you have JUCO zealots screaming that every kid should go to JUCO, which just isn't true for many!

Kids should go where they "believe" they can compete and develop!  Sorry for the rant . . .but stop being so judgmental on a kid that took a shot at his dream it simply didn't work out. 

I have some comments about the last 2 paragraphs of your post.

  Juco is not the best option for everyone. If you are ; a) drafted out of HS (but don’t sign) you are probably good enough to get playing time at a 4 year school as a freshman; b) a very high academic student a JuCo may not fit your academic agenda ; c) a D3 player your options to transfer in after JuCo could be limited; d) a graduate of a private HS the JuCo route is likely to be a shock to your system. Other than those categories you are making a mistake if you don’t consider JuCo options. You only get better by getting reps in practice and playing in games. JuCo provides a much greater probability of that happening for most freshmen & Sophs. 
  Most kids have no perspective about where they actually fit in college baseball.  That feedback comes from the marketplace - scouts, coaches, recruiting coordinators, etc. - IF YOU LISTEN. And therein lies the problem. Most people don’t do a good job reading the tea leaves. If you get scholarship offers from 5 D2 schools and a walk-on offer from a D1 mid-major, the marketplace is telling you that you are a D2 player. But how many people “reach” for the D1 anyway?!? And then complain when it doesn’t work out?!?              There is a lot of good advice on this board and it’s all designed around pointing out pitfalls so they can be avoided. You can call it judgmental if you want but the facts are if people would pay attention to comments from people who know they would make better judgments. In general  I would put more stock in advice you get here versus the belief system of a 17 year old. But that’s just me.... 
  

I think in life there are people who play life safe and those who take risks.  Most people fall into one of the other categories.  Some have a tendency to one of the other but are pushed into the other.  My three sons have different personalities and many of us as parents do.  Some risk it all and some want security.  Those who are safe and secure people often are jealous of risk it all people.  But they would not trade their safety for it.  Ted Turner has been said to have been bankrupted over 10 times in his life but when he was bankrupt he was very wealthy. 

My middle son followed the safe and secure plan rather than the risk it.  My youngest son followed more of the risk it role.  He may end up in the D1 trap.  He is a 5'10" riding 86-89 LHP who is playing SEC ball.  He has always had success in the top level of travel ball because of having 5 pitches with great location.  He started last year with great numbers coming off a broken ankle at Thanksgiving.  He had one bad outing out of several outings to be recovering from what was a major injury from a freak accident.  Who knows what this year holds.  But he will always say I tried to live my dream whether he accomplishes it or not.  He from a young age would tell you his goal was to play pro ball after playing in the SEC.  He got some great offers but held out for the SEC offers.  His plan after college is to play pro ball or coach on a high level. 

Some have to be safe and others have to risky.  The world needs all.  The D1 trap is only a trap for those who get caught in it.

1. Look at rosters. At the time (2010-11) the HA D1's we talked to that would support STEM students were the Ivy's, Stanford, Duke, Cal Poly, Santa Clara and UCDavis...I think a couple of others. (don't remember)

2. Ask the coach how do they handle players who have to go to labs in the afternoon during practice time. Programs that support STEM majors allow players to come and go. If the coach starts to say "well you know...." then forget it.  Others will come straight out and tell you "no". Do this homework ahead so you don't waste a bunch of time. Ask right up front is my advice. (we found out late and wasted a bunch of time talking to programs he had no chance of playing at) 

3. It is much easier for pitchers to handle STEM as they can get their work in on their own with a  catcher or throwing partner and don't need to be a practice at a specific time. 

4. At my son's school (D3) they paired up STEM majors in rooms during travel to make life easier on them.  

You can call it judgmental if you want but the facts are if people would pay attention to comments from people who know they would make better judgments.

Too many players and parents hear what they want to hear and believe rather than what is actually being said.

When I think of the D1 trap I think more in terms of players taking the risk of a reach whether it’s the level of D1 or playing D1 at all. The question to ask is how much of a reach is it? 

@RJM posted:

When I think of the D1 trap I think more in terms of players taking the risk of a reach whether it’s the level of D1 or playing D1 at all. The question to ask is how much of a reach is it? 

Besides pitchers, there are 8 other starting positions, then you include the DH. Usually 13-14 players get into a game. So most games there is between 18 and 21, maybe 22 players that sit the bench the entire game. So, is it safe to say anywhere from 4,000 to 6,000 D1 kids are reaching? Not knocking your post, just a discussion point. Somebody has to fill the bench spots. I think the "D1 Trap" could go in so many directions of discussion. At the end of the day, is the kid happy at where he's at, both academically and athletically?

@TXdad2019 posted:

Besides pitchers, there are 8 other starting positions, then you include the DH. Usually 13-14 players get into a game. So most games there is between 18 and 21, maybe 22 players that sit the bench the entire game. So, is it safe to say anywhere from 4,000 to 6,000 D1 kids are reaching? Not knocking your post, just a discussion point. Somebody has to fill the bench spots. I think the "D1 Trap" could go in so many directions of discussion. At the end of the day, is the kid happy at where he's at, both academically and athletically?

It kind of makes sense, I mean half the ball players are above average on their team and half are below average.  Assuming there's around 10k D1 ball players (300 teams x 35), then your math is probably pretty close.  The bottom half are still an ambitious bunch so most look for greener pastures rather than sit, and I've read on this board that 50% of D1 ball players transfer at some point.

@TXdad2019 posted:

Besides pitchers, there are 8 other starting positions, then you include the DH. Usually 13-14 players get into a game. So most games there is between 18 and 21, maybe 22 players that sit the bench the entire game. So, is it safe to say anywhere from 4,000 to 6,000 D1 kids are reaching? Not knocking your post, just a discussion point. Somebody has to fill the bench spots. I think the "D1 Trap" could go in so many directions of discussion. At the end of the day, is the kid happy at where he's at, both academically and athletically?

A lot of those kids sitting are freshmen who will leave at the end of the year or sophs who should have left last year. I only remember one position player who remained with the team as a bench player for four years. One other player was told he was no longer needed after junior year. He started freshman year and spiraled backwards. I didn’t keep as close track of pitchers. But plenty left.