2seamer
I think your shorts are too tight
2Seamer I understand your Passion about this subject.
But I have to agree with TR hear.
Andy, Jason, Bourne, Frank Martin. Will start very good post's on current and past sensitive and Negitive sport's subject's.
But will not Communicate his own thought's on the subject.
But then will add more article's to the same post.
Andy, speak your own mind sometime's.
That is just stirring the pot sometime's, and I and other's don't need anymore help on that.
We do well enough on are own. LOL
EH
But I have to agree with TR hear.
Andy, Jason, Bourne, Frank Martin. Will start very good post's on current and past sensitive and Negitive sport's subject's.
But will not Communicate his own thought's on the subject.
But then will add more article's to the same post.
Andy, speak your own mind sometime's.
That is just stirring the pot sometime's, and I and other's don't need anymore help on that.
We do well enough on are own. LOL
EH
"It may seem repititious to some, but I for one, have been enlightened with this post."
Count me as another who appreciated this terrifying and heartbreaking thread. I really wasn't aware of Jeff's story and it gave me an opportunity to talk to my son about consequences in a way that (finally) connected to him and his life. I hope this will be the first thing he thinks about when someone offers him drugs.
IMO Jeff has become a case of "sometimes your purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others." I sincerely pray that he finds a better purpose in the future.
Count me as another who appreciated this terrifying and heartbreaking thread. I really wasn't aware of Jeff's story and it gave me an opportunity to talk to my son about consequences in a way that (finally) connected to him and his life. I hope this will be the first thing he thinks about when someone offers him drugs.
IMO Jeff has become a case of "sometimes your purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others." I sincerely pray that he finds a better purpose in the future.
TR, my shorts are just fine. In the true holiday spirit, I'll cut you a break on a return insult. By the way, just keep in mind that Oxy and heroin use is climbing in Connecticut. When it affects someone you know, I'll promise not to say "I told you so".
EH, I know Andy/Jason/Frank and his other assorted multiple personalities can be a pain. I honestly don't think he contributes his own thoughts to subjects because he may not have that capability.
He does mix in some good links along with the other assorted pablum he posts, so he can be useful.
Like I said, there are a lot of people visiting here that have likely never heard of Hamilton or Allison, or the problems they may have had. And while Andy/Jason/Frank/? seemed to have a stalker fascination with Hamilton a few years ago, his updates at least point out that it doesn't matter how All-American a kid may seem, or how protective his parents may be, it's still possible for a kid to fall to addiction.
EH, I know Andy/Jason/Frank and his other assorted multiple personalities can be a pain. I honestly don't think he contributes his own thoughts to subjects because he may not have that capability.
He does mix in some good links along with the other assorted pablum he posts, so he can be useful.
Like I said, there are a lot of people visiting here that have likely never heard of Hamilton or Allison, or the problems they may have had. And while Andy/Jason/Frank/? seemed to have a stalker fascination with Hamilton a few years ago, his updates at least point out that it doesn't matter how All-American a kid may seem, or how protective his parents may be, it's still possible for a kid to fall to addiction.
Personal insults TR are nasty and unconstructive.
Can we keep this civil? Its a new year,..lets at least start the year out with compassion.
Throwing a subject out to the masses doesnt mean one has to comment on it. If it provokes thought and emotions, thats a good thing IMO. If it annoys, please feel free to not judge, but simply skip it and move on.
Can we keep this civil? Its a new year,..lets at least start the year out with compassion.
Throwing a subject out to the masses doesnt mean one has to comment on it. If it provokes thought and emotions, thats a good thing IMO. If it annoys, please feel free to not judge, but simply skip it and move on.
To All
Look at the posts previous-- all I asked from Frank/Andy and all his suedo names is to leave it alone---The Allison kid does not need a person like Andy continually dredging up the "dirt" on him---then all of asudden I am the "bad guy"-- so be it--folks look in your own town and you see the same thing but their names are not dredged up on a regular basis
I am sorry if any of you are offended by my stance but that is just too badd---it is what it is and will remain as such---how do you respect a poster who uses so many ID's after being banned on a site?--
mom---compassion for whom---- Frank Martin et al---you must be kidding---
Look at the posts previous-- all I asked from Frank/Andy and all his suedo names is to leave it alone---The Allison kid does not need a person like Andy continually dredging up the "dirt" on him---then all of asudden I am the "bad guy"-- so be it--folks look in your own town and you see the same thing but their names are not dredged up on a regular basis
I am sorry if any of you are offended by my stance but that is just too badd---it is what it is and will remain as such---how do you respect a poster who uses so many ID's after being banned on a site?--
mom---compassion for whom---- Frank Martin et al---you must be kidding---
Ohhh goood Lord,.....
Lets get back to the subject matter.
We can always annoy, provoke, and insult each other privately through pm's! ha!
I suggest we keep the board, civil for the masses.
Lets get back to the subject matter.
We can always annoy, provoke, and insult each other privately through pm's! ha!
I suggest we keep the board, civil for the masses.
Sensitive subject's stir emotion.
That's why no politic's are allowed on the board.
This subject of Drug use and are abuse is one of the most sensitive subject that we all can relate to.
We have all had someone a Family Member, A Friend, A co-worker, Are Self's.
That have fallen pray to Drug's, Alcohol at some point in time are another. You Dig your self out are you die, simple as that.
I lost my best friend to Drug abuse.
We are all responsible for are own action's.
And nobody can help you but yourself.
You have to want to take control of your life, Instead of it taking control of you.
There's no magic wand are word's of advice that will help.
The user just has to stop.
I know you don't think it's that easy.
But that's what has to be done. Plain and simple.
EH
That's why no politic's are allowed on the board.
This subject of Drug use and are abuse is one of the most sensitive subject that we all can relate to.
We have all had someone a Family Member, A Friend, A co-worker, Are Self's.
That have fallen pray to Drug's, Alcohol at some point in time are another. You Dig your self out are you die, simple as that.
I lost my best friend to Drug abuse.
We are all responsible for are own action's.
And nobody can help you but yourself.
You have to want to take control of your life, Instead of it taking control of you.
There's no magic wand are word's of advice that will help.
The user just has to stop.
I know you don't think it's that easy.
But that's what has to be done. Plain and simple.
EH
Messenger shooting......When did that become effective?
I read this thread with a little more interest and concern than I perhaps might have even one year ago....
As luvbb says, "There but for the grace of God go I".....
Drug abuse of all kinds is a huge problem and getting worse.
Knowledge is power. The more you know the more you can be aware and the more you are aware the more helpful you can be....
I agree with theEH that it is up to the user to help him/herself. But they may need help and/or support to fight their demons, whatever they are. The more we read about situations like this, the more we can help and support them.
And pray.
As luvbb says, "There but for the grace of God go I".....
Drug abuse of all kinds is a huge problem and getting worse.
Knowledge is power. The more you know the more you can be aware and the more you are aware the more helpful you can be....
I agree with theEH that it is up to the user to help him/herself. But they may need help and/or support to fight their demons, whatever they are. The more we read about situations like this, the more we can help and support them.
And pray.
Talking with your kids about drugs
http://www.talkingwithkids.org/drugs.html
You Suspect Your Child Has_a Drug_Problem
http://www.drugfree.org/Intervention/HelpingOthers/Adul...d_Has_a_Drug_Problem
http://www.talkingwithkids.org/drugs.html
You Suspect Your Child Has_a Drug_Problem
http://www.drugfree.org/Intervention/HelpingOthers/Adul...d_Has_a_Drug_Problem
With the internet, the question of personal privacy comes into play more and more. Also the role of the media. When my son was arrested here in Wisconsin, he became a much better athlete than he ever was in reality as the newspapers and broadcast media sensationalized the story. Has anyone had media trucks camped out in front of your house? Not fun. We live out in the boonies and my house is about 100 yards off the street and I had local anchor persons with camera crews running up my driveway with cameras rolling. It's times like that I wish my dog wasn't such a wuss. All this for a high school kid with a minor scholarship to a NAIA school that hasn't had a winning season in years. Heck, if that college wins or loses a baseball game it's never in the paper or on the TV....ever. The whole incident was exacerbated by the recent deaths by heroin of several high school students in our area. The local DA was also running for state attorney general (he eventually lost) and decided this was another great opportunity to go on camera either for good reasons or selfish...doesn't matter. If you Google my son's name now, the only returns you'll get is him attached to the drug arrest and his subsequent hearings.
Some will say that you lose personal privacy when you commit a crime. I can see their point. But my issue is when does it stop? When do the Google returns go away? It's a constant barrage and it goes beyond just Frank Martin posting stories here. It used to go away to some extent when you threw your newspaper out. Now....a Frank Martin can post it on High School Baseball Web or whereever he wants and perpetuate it. Does the message need a name attached to it or does it have merit on it's own with anonimity?
I chose to share my information now because after reading the original post that became this thread, I felt that at least on this board with so many good people who participate that our story might help someone. I'm past doing spin or damage control, however I am faced at least once a week now with on old friend or not so friendly acquaintance contacting me because they Googled my name and and voila, my youngest son is in trouble.
For skeptics, I am not whining about our plight. I'm just pointing out the reality of today at least as I see it.
Anyway, to all who posted their thoughts, prayers, and intentions to talk to their own children....probably for the upteenth time... :> Thank you from my heart. I've never been much for expressing my deepest feelings, at least in public, but thanks.
Some will say that you lose personal privacy when you commit a crime. I can see their point. But my issue is when does it stop? When do the Google returns go away? It's a constant barrage and it goes beyond just Frank Martin posting stories here. It used to go away to some extent when you threw your newspaper out. Now....a Frank Martin can post it on High School Baseball Web or whereever he wants and perpetuate it. Does the message need a name attached to it or does it have merit on it's own with anonimity?
I chose to share my information now because after reading the original post that became this thread, I felt that at least on this board with so many good people who participate that our story might help someone. I'm past doing spin or damage control, however I am faced at least once a week now with on old friend or not so friendly acquaintance contacting me because they Googled my name and and voila, my youngest son is in trouble.
For skeptics, I am not whining about our plight. I'm just pointing out the reality of today at least as I see it.
Anyway, to all who posted their thoughts, prayers, and intentions to talk to their own children....probably for the upteenth time... :>
Thank you from my heart. I've never been much for expressing my deepest feelings, at least in public, but thanks.
halfmoon
my tale is the same. if my son hit powerball he wouldn't have recieved as much press. as a matter of fact his brother was drafted and didn't get half as much fan fare. they had two camera crews at a high school game,to get a shot of him. i think we as a society wallow in others misery,maybe we feel better if it's someone else's kid, i don't know.
but you are not alone in this by any stretch. i know the feelings you go through, seem to be endless.they will subside. we go to a family group once a week . i'm a meat and potatoes guy so that worried me at first,i'd never felt the need for that stuff.but it helps talking with parents who have the same problems. i talk with friends but if they haven't been there they don't get it.
my only consolation is my son is in a 6 month rehab. and that's all we can hope for is they get the help they need. as 2 seamer said they will always be an addict but they can be in recovery. maybe this topic shouldn't be here? it is a problem that isn't going away. i feel you have helped some by posting your experience, that can't be all wrong.
keep your chin up, better day's are coming. good luck to you and your son.
my tale is the same. if my son hit powerball he wouldn't have recieved as much press. as a matter of fact his brother was drafted and didn't get half as much fan fare. they had two camera crews at a high school game,to get a shot of him. i think we as a society wallow in others misery,maybe we feel better if it's someone else's kid, i don't know.
but you are not alone in this by any stretch. i know the feelings you go through, seem to be endless.they will subside. we go to a family group once a week . i'm a meat and potatoes guy so that worried me at first,i'd never felt the need for that stuff.but it helps talking with parents who have the same problems. i talk with friends but if they haven't been there they don't get it.
my only consolation is my son is in a 6 month rehab. and that's all we can hope for is they get the help they need. as 2 seamer said they will always be an addict but they can be in recovery. maybe this topic shouldn't be here? it is a problem that isn't going away. i feel you have helped some by posting your experience, that can't be all wrong.
keep your chin up, better day's are coming. good luck to you and your son.
quote:Now....a Frank Martin can post it on High School Baseball Web or whereever he wants and perpetuate it. Does the message need a name attached to it or does it have merit on it's own with anonimity?
I think this was TR's point... not that the issue was being discussed. To have this battle is difficult enough for all involved and to not be able to move beyond the media in some instances doesn't help anyone truly move on with their lives.
Halfmoon and 20Dad - Thanks for both of your posts. While I haven't been there yet - I see the potential in one of mine and it's scary. It does help to hear about others - but you do the best you can, pray and preach - and it can still happen. Short of locking them in their rooms - what can you do. I totally agree that the world is at the point where we take it way to far! Run a story and then they should let it go. They give so much more press for the mud and muck than they ever do for the good stuff. My thanks and prayers to both of you for these 2 good posts. It's time to move on!
Halfmoon, 20dad.
It's from poster's like yourself's that have the Gut's to come out and say there's a problem, And this is how we dealt and or dealing with it.
I know your not looking for sympathy, Just understanding.
I want to thank you for sharing.
I know it won't be easy, But it will work out.
Tell your son's from me to hang in there, it's day to day.
But there's people that care and are praying for them.
God Bless.
EH
It's from poster's like yourself's that have the Gut's to come out and say there's a problem, And this is how we dealt and or dealing with it.
I know your not looking for sympathy, Just understanding.
I want to thank you for sharing.
I know it won't be easy, But it will work out.
Tell your son's from me to hang in there, it's day to day.
But there's people that care and are praying for them.
God Bless.
EH
quote:It's from poster's like yourself's that have the Gut's to come out and say there's a problem, And this is how we dealt and or dealing with it.
I know your not looking for sympathy, Just understanding.
I want to thank you for sharing.
I know it won't be easy, But it will work out.
Tell your son's from me to hang in there, it's day to day.
But there's people that care and are praying for them.
God Bless.
To halfmoon, 20dad, and others,
I wish I was as elequant as the EH, but since I lack those skills, I will simply say I agree completely with the above.
I commend you for sharing with us. I commend you and your sons for working hard through a very difficult time. I thank you for your honesty and I offer you understanding, compassion, & not one ounce of judgement.
I also must thank Halfmoonslider and 20dad for sharing their stories. I cannot imagine how difficult it is. I do know how hard it is just dealing with the stuff of teenagers in my home--in private, just hoping that the neighbors don't hear. I can't even think about how horrible it would be if their antics were in the newspaper, or on tv or the radio, or the internet......
For you to tell us about it is appreciated. I will consider you both differently than I have in the past---I will look at you with the greatest respect and admiration.
My "Every day is Anything Can Happen Day" signature serves to remind ME that anything can happen on any given day --and when one has teenagers, truly, anything can happen every day. It doesn't matter how good of a kid you have, or how smart the kid is---he/she is a teenager, with teenager minds....
Maybe I will change my signature to "There, but for the grace of God, go I"--for that is another little piece of reality.............
I sincerely wish you peace and God's grace to help you through this life-changing event. And I wish the same to those of us who may (or will) be facing the very same--or worse--
"There, but for the Grace of God, go I."
For you to tell us about it is appreciated. I will consider you both differently than I have in the past---I will look at you with the greatest respect and admiration.
My "Every day is Anything Can Happen Day" signature serves to remind ME that anything can happen on any given day --and when one has teenagers, truly, anything can happen every day. It doesn't matter how good of a kid you have, or how smart the kid is---he/she is a teenager, with teenager minds....
Maybe I will change my signature to "There, but for the grace of God, go I"--for that is another little piece of reality.............
I sincerely wish you peace and God's grace to help you through this life-changing event. And I wish the same to those of us who may (or will) be facing the very same--or worse--
"There, but for the Grace of God, go I."
I have followed this thread since the beginning, and refrained from responding to comments who want to call people junkies. Drug/alcohol addiction is a disease.
I can appreciate those of you who have opened up your lives for the rest of us to see, and I have empathy for anyone who has family/friends in situations involving substance abuse/addiction. Every person is somebody's loved one, and we can all only offer prayers and hope, one day at a time, for family members and for others in the headlines.
Everyone can benefit from well wishes.....nobody benefits from negative name calling.
My thoughts and prayers to all who need them!
I can appreciate those of you who have opened up your lives for the rest of us to see, and I have empathy for anyone who has family/friends in situations involving substance abuse/addiction. Every person is somebody's loved one, and we can all only offer prayers and hope, one day at a time, for family members and for others in the headlines.
Everyone can benefit from well wishes.....nobody benefits from negative name calling.
My thoughts and prayers to all who need them!
I wanted to add a word of support to Halfmoon and 20dad - you are walking a tough road right now and I admire you both for having the courage to share your pain publically. Debating about whether or not people with drug/alcohol problems are "junkies" is hardly the point - call it whatever you want, it's a devastating problem for all those who are dealing with it. And I'd be willing to bet there are some who are reading this right now who don't even know how close this problem is to their own family.
Halfmoon, if you're still reading, let me just add this. My son and yours are acquaintances from the world of baseball from many years ago and enough kids at his high school still know your son that when he was arrested it was "news" that was passed around. When my son told me, as a mom I was stunned, shocked, floored... you name it. Your son could have been my son - great kid, above average athlete, planning for college, hoping to play baseball at the next level. However - and this is the part I hope EVERY parent will read - when I asked my son if he was shocked he said "no". That was not a reflection on your son, as our boys haven't moved in the same circles for many years, so he had no real idea what kind of person your son had become. What it represented was a peek into the teenage world from his perspective... what he told me was "Mom, it's everybody, everywhere. If you knew everyone who was involved in this stuff you'd never let me out of the house." How did this happen to our "Just say no" DARE generation? My kids have been exposed to more illegal drugs ALREADY than I have ever in my whole life. My son tells me that he could get whatever he wanted whenever he wanted without going to a whole lot of trouble. That's scary, but that's what parents have to know and deal with, because it's real.
We proceded to have many, many long hard conversations with him and his younger brother about drugs, alcohol, friends, pressure, goals, choices, *** (they liked that topic best!)... all things we'd discussed before, but now with OUR eyes wide open to the fact that we just might learn more from the conversation than they did.
So what makes my son different from yours? I haven't got a clue... personality trait? peer group? opportunity? brain that functions differently? I wish I knew, and I'm sure you do, too. But what I do believe is that you didn't do anything wrong as parents - you loved your son, supported him, encouraged him, disciplined him, supported him some more... and now you're standing by him as he grows up really fast and really hard. You're a good dad, even with a broken heart.
You said something that I was hoping you might elaborate on - you said you didn't see the signs, but that if you had looked closer you would have. Would you mind talking about what some of those signs are that you now know you missed - I know it would be helpful to me and maybe also to others. We practice all the usual stuff - know where they're going and who they're going with, know who their friends are, communicate with other parents about parties, wait up and look 'em over good when they come home, keep track of how much money passes through their hands... could we still be missing something?
Thanks again for being so open with your personal life. When you said "this has taken the starch right out of me" it was as if I could feel exactly what you're feeling. Life is a humbling business. We've thought about your family alot in the past year and prayed that through all this you'll find strength and peace. Your son is still one of the lucky ones - he made some bad choices, but he's still alive to get another chance.
Halfmoon, if you're still reading, let me just add this. My son and yours are acquaintances from the world of baseball from many years ago and enough kids at his high school still know your son that when he was arrested it was "news" that was passed around. When my son told me, as a mom I was stunned, shocked, floored... you name it. Your son could have been my son - great kid, above average athlete, planning for college, hoping to play baseball at the next level. However - and this is the part I hope EVERY parent will read - when I asked my son if he was shocked he said "no". That was not a reflection on your son, as our boys haven't moved in the same circles for many years, so he had no real idea what kind of person your son had become. What it represented was a peek into the teenage world from his perspective... what he told me was "Mom, it's everybody, everywhere. If you knew everyone who was involved in this stuff you'd never let me out of the house." How did this happen to our "Just say no" DARE generation? My kids have been exposed to more illegal drugs ALREADY than I have ever in my whole life. My son tells me that he could get whatever he wanted whenever he wanted without going to a whole lot of trouble. That's scary, but that's what parents have to know and deal with, because it's real.
We proceded to have many, many long hard conversations with him and his younger brother about drugs, alcohol, friends, pressure, goals, choices, *** (they liked that topic best!)... all things we'd discussed before, but now with OUR eyes wide open to the fact that we just might learn more from the conversation than they did.
So what makes my son different from yours? I haven't got a clue... personality trait? peer group? opportunity? brain that functions differently? I wish I knew, and I'm sure you do, too. But what I do believe is that you didn't do anything wrong as parents - you loved your son, supported him, encouraged him, disciplined him, supported him some more... and now you're standing by him as he grows up really fast and really hard. You're a good dad, even with a broken heart.
You said something that I was hoping you might elaborate on - you said you didn't see the signs, but that if you had looked closer you would have. Would you mind talking about what some of those signs are that you now know you missed - I know it would be helpful to me and maybe also to others. We practice all the usual stuff - know where they're going and who they're going with, know who their friends are, communicate with other parents about parties, wait up and look 'em over good when they come home, keep track of how much money passes through their hands... could we still be missing something?
Thanks again for being so open with your personal life. When you said "this has taken the starch right out of me" it was as if I could feel exactly what you're feeling. Life is a humbling business. We've thought about your family alot in the past year and prayed that through all this you'll find strength and peace. Your son is still one of the lucky ones - he made some bad choices, but he's still alive to get another chance.
Halfmoon and 20Dad,
I just wanted to also say Thank You again for being willing to share. Though I haven't walked exactly in your shoes, and hope and pray I don't have to, it has certainly hit much closer to home in the past year, and I understand better. Bless you, and I hope that 2007 is a year of progress and a bright future.
Julie
I just wanted to also say Thank You again for being willing to share. Though I haven't walked exactly in your shoes, and hope and pray I don't have to, it has certainly hit much closer to home in the past year, and I understand better. Bless you, and I hope that 2007 is a year of progress and a bright future.
Julie
quote:You said something that I was hoping you might elaborate on - you said you didn't see the signs, but that if you had looked closer you would have. Would you mind talking about what some of those signs are that you now know you missed - I know it would be helpful to me and maybe also to others. We practice all the usual stuff - know where they're going and who they're going with, know who their friends are, communicate with other parents about parties, wait up and look 'em over good when they come home, keep track of how much money passes through their hands... could we still be missing something?
mythreesons - great post from a fine and obviously conscientious parent. The above quote and question caught my eye. I believe that no matter how big we make that list to check off as parents, that kids are still smart enough to circumvent it if THEY want to.
Don't get me wrong, doing the things you suggest and possibly more is what good parents should do but that still may not be enough. Halfmoon may have something more to offer now in hindsight, but at some point the recriminations and guilt need to stop in order for healing to begin. Sometimes parents beat themselves up for the things they did not do, yet there is another - the child who is also responsible. Sometimes, bad things happen to good parents and good kids sometimes sprout from rotten parents - only God knows why.
Mythreesons - great post! I think you're right.... often our kids are much more aware of what's happening in the world than we are. A great place to start searching what's going on in their lives and those of other kids in our areas is simply by starting a conversation on the subject. Thanks for that post.
Cleveland-
I do understand your point about kids being able to hide undesireable behavior, but some stories I've heard make me think that often they're "hiding in plain sight". I've talked about the drug/drinking issue with a number of baseball parents, and you'd be amazed how many of them proclaimed that THEIR child had never seen or heard of anyone who drank, did drugs or engaged in sexual activity. One mom was particularily vociferous in her support of her son's clean lifestyle... my son told me that her son actually has the biggest bong collection in the county on display in his bedroom, which he shows off to anyone who cares to see it. We've known other kids who were arrested for DUI or busted at parties who's parents STILL swear "my kid doesn't drink/use. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time (or with the wrong person, or...)". There was a student at our high school who was hauled out in an ambulance after OD'ing on a home cooked version of something made out of a decongestant. His parents stormed the office, demanding to know who had brought the drugs to school and passed them around to other kids... it was their son. He had made the concoction at home at their kitchen table.
Now while these are all behaviors that I'm sure I wouldn't miss, I'll bet there are things that my kids could get away with that I wouldn't pick up on, although I like to believe I'm still smarter than they are! (ha!) Most parents take pride in "trusting" their kids - we tell our kids "we'll start trusting YOU when we know you can trust YOURSELF." Or as Ronald Reagan was fond of saying "Trust, but verify".
My suggestion - get your high school (or better yet middle school) to bring in the local drug enforcement agency to do a parent education night and get all your parent friends to attend. You'll be amazed at what's out there that your kids can get their hands on. The stuff is cheap, accessible and almost impossible to recognize if you haven't seen it before. I went through this type of training for my job and it was a real eye opener, to say the least.
I do understand your point about kids being able to hide undesireable behavior, but some stories I've heard make me think that often they're "hiding in plain sight". I've talked about the drug/drinking issue with a number of baseball parents, and you'd be amazed how many of them proclaimed that THEIR child had never seen or heard of anyone who drank, did drugs or engaged in sexual activity. One mom was particularily vociferous in her support of her son's clean lifestyle... my son told me that her son actually has the biggest bong collection in the county on display in his bedroom, which he shows off to anyone who cares to see it. We've known other kids who were arrested for DUI or busted at parties who's parents STILL swear "my kid doesn't drink/use. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time (or with the wrong person, or...)". There was a student at our high school who was hauled out in an ambulance after OD'ing on a home cooked version of something made out of a decongestant. His parents stormed the office, demanding to know who had brought the drugs to school and passed them around to other kids... it was their son. He had made the concoction at home at their kitchen table.
Now while these are all behaviors that I'm sure I wouldn't miss, I'll bet there are things that my kids could get away with that I wouldn't pick up on, although I like to believe I'm still smarter than they are! (ha!) Most parents take pride in "trusting" their kids - we tell our kids "we'll start trusting YOU when we know you can trust YOURSELF." Or as Ronald Reagan was fond of saying "Trust, but verify".
My suggestion - get your high school (or better yet middle school) to bring in the local drug enforcement agency to do a parent education night and get all your parent friends to attend. You'll be amazed at what's out there that your kids can get their hands on. The stuff is cheap, accessible and almost impossible to recognize if you haven't seen it before. I went through this type of training for my job and it was a real eye opener, to say the least.
mythreesons,
Both of your posts are excellent! Thank you.
Both of your posts are excellent! Thank you.
quote:get your high school (or better yet middle school) to bring in the local drug enforcement agency to do a parent education night and get all your parent friends to attend.
This should be a mandatory parent presentation the year that a kid leaves elementary school. That is probably the time that a parent should be aware of the "potential" problems that they might run into, and also one of the last years they have full control over the kids activities. That first year of middle school there are dances, new friends from different schools, and many times a kids first taste of independence.
Besides, after that year parents also change. I feel they then fall into 3 catagories.
1. Those who stay involved
2. Those who think they stay involved but "look the other way" and refuse to believe the truth
3. Those who "turn their back" and blame it on others, or maybe don't even care to begin with.
Not only did I want to understand the changes in kids, but also the changes in parents. I grew up in the "Wow"
I'm not proud of that part of my past and don't go around boasting about it. But, when I go to my grave I will be satisfied that I think I turned my "wrong" into positive learning experience for my kids and thier friends. This was probably the hardest admission in my life. In the end I couldn't lie about it and still have all of this experience to fall back on. Those lies and deception are where the problems start and as parents we sometimes feel that our kids should "do as we say, not as we did". It's said that we should nip the problem at the source, unfortunatly that source may be looking us in the mirror.
Being fairly close to Jeff Allison, I agree with TR and hate seeing Jeff's name brought up so negatively over and over.
But, I think lafmom (I believe) brought up a great point. Some are just meant to be an example for others. (Or something like that) In a perfect world Jeff will not only beat this, but will educate and help others. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. The potential end result is frightening.
Learning from the mistakes of others is much better than learning from your own mistakes. It seems so easy, yet it is so very hard!
This is a great thread, with outstanding people who care about others and some true life lessons. I know I will read every single post until this thread dies out.
For what it's worth, here is what someone once told me about this subject and others. Often parents don't look directly into the eyes of their children. If they did, they would be more alert when something is wrong or different. The eyes don't lie! I used this a lot in scouting and recruiting. The eyes can be very revealing and speak volumes.
Doubt we will ever get rid of this problem, but it is well worth our while trying to put a dent into it! For those who have shared their tough stories... Thanks for the education and please keep teaching the rest of us.
But, I think lafmom (I believe) brought up a great point. Some are just meant to be an example for others. (Or something like that) In a perfect world Jeff will not only beat this, but will educate and help others. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. The potential end result is frightening.
Learning from the mistakes of others is much better than learning from your own mistakes. It seems so easy, yet it is so very hard!
This is a great thread, with outstanding people who care about others and some true life lessons. I know I will read every single post until this thread dies out.
For what it's worth, here is what someone once told me about this subject and others. Often parents don't look directly into the eyes of their children. If they did, they would be more alert when something is wrong or different. The eyes don't lie! I used this a lot in scouting and recruiting. The eyes can be very revealing and speak volumes.
Doubt we will ever get rid of this problem, but it is well worth our while trying to put a dent into it! For those who have shared their tough stories... Thanks for the education and please keep teaching the rest of us.
Thanks for your great post mythreesons....I've only got a few minutes to respond right now, but our deadliest mistake was a bit of what RZ1 posted as #2. It sounds horrible now but in doing a bit of forensic on how I operated, a part of me must not have wanted to see. We've made other mistakes as well. Our greatest rationalization was that he is a very high performing athlete. How could he possibly have drug issues? My wife and I have a fabulous relationship after 30 years. We have a very stable household that is peaceful and loving. Sometimes we think that is enough. Her parents were both alcoholics and mine were divoriced. I'm chuckling to myself right now because I am not a very open person about my personal life, however this is critically important to somebody....I am absolutely sure of it. Just because you love your wife or husband and everyone gets along and your son or daughter seems to be doing ok, you can't let your guard down.
One more thing. Until about 7 or 8 years ago we maintained an active social lifestyle that included many parties that included drinking. If I had it to do over again, I would have to re-evaluate. Now I know home-body non-drinkers whose kids have had issues too, but you've got to examine everything. Raising kids is absolutely the worlds hardest job. Gotta go hold up the economy....thanks to all for your understanding and great comments....
One more thing. Until about 7 or 8 years ago we maintained an active social lifestyle that included many parties that included drinking. If I had it to do over again, I would have to re-evaluate. Now I know home-body non-drinkers whose kids have had issues too, but you've got to examine everything. Raising kids is absolutely the worlds hardest job. Gotta go hold up the economy....thanks to all for your understanding and great comments....
quote:Raising kids is absolutely the worlds hardest job.
Absolutely. And it is true what they say, that the bigger they get, the bigger the problems (and heartache).
The High School my son attends had one of these "education nights" earlier this year. The things we observed that night were shocking. Maybe the most shocking of all was the fact that in a school of 2,500+ students only about 60 parents were there.quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
My suggestion - get your high school (or better yet middle school) to bring in the local drug enforcement agency to do a parent education night and get all your parent friends to attend. You'll be amazed at what's out there that your kids can get their hands on. The stuff is cheap, accessible and almost impossible to recognize if you haven't seen it before. I went through this type of training for my job and it was a real eye opener, to say the least.
Jason
Now it gets even more complicated when the latest statistics reveal that the increase in drug abuse among teenagers is not in the illegal drugs but those that every one of us has in our house.
Left over pain medicine, cold medicine, cough medicine, aspirin, ritalin and allergy medicine. Add to that the increase in glue and gas huffing and the medicine cabinet and the garage become as insidious as the street corner pusher. Raising kids is not only the hardest job but becomes harder every day. Every thing around them pushes them to grow up faster. Television, music, peers and yes even sports. I'm glad I am not a kid today, despite all the advantages they seem to have. I long for simpler times and places to raise my kids.
Left over pain medicine, cold medicine, cough medicine, aspirin, ritalin and allergy medicine. Add to that the increase in glue and gas huffing and the medicine cabinet and the garage become as insidious as the street corner pusher. Raising kids is not only the hardest job but becomes harder every day. Every thing around them pushes them to grow up faster. Television, music, peers and yes even sports. I'm glad I am not a kid today, despite all the advantages they seem to have. I long for simpler times and places to raise my kids.
quote:Every thing around them pushes them to grow up faster.
quote:I long for simpler times
quote:in a school of 2,500+ students only about 60 parents were there.
I hear ya!!!!
tr and pg
you are right about dragging jeff through the mud, enough is enough. that said you could put anyone of thousands of kids name's to start this thread. this isn't relly about him .but i did use him as an example for my son.it didn't work but it was useful.
i guess the point is it can happen to anyone. from any back ground. the really sad thing is the adults that are involved in these things. and the drugs they get. we have a lot of grand parents that live with their familys in the area. they have quite a variety of presciption drugs for various illness's. kids start taking them ,when no one notices 2 pills turns into a bottle. elderly people tend to be forgetful and who would think your kids would take them?
i give a halfmoon my respect for even bringing his situation to light here. that is a very difficult bridge to cross. as parents in we want to take the blame ,afterall we are raising our kids to be good people. reality is they know right from wrong,and they have good manners. every law enforcement person,judge ,lawyer. all commented how polite my son was,very respectfull. then how can he do this? i didn't intend to air my dirty laundry on this site. but i felt that halfmoon should know he isn't the only one fighting this deamon,and maybe it helps making people aware of this problem. even among athletes.
kids are just about the only thing we get with out instructions. we do the best we can,then we learn some stuff and try to do even better.
you are right about dragging jeff through the mud, enough is enough. that said you could put anyone of thousands of kids name's to start this thread. this isn't relly about him .but i did use him as an example for my son.it didn't work but it was useful.
i guess the point is it can happen to anyone. from any back ground. the really sad thing is the adults that are involved in these things. and the drugs they get. we have a lot of grand parents that live with their familys in the area. they have quite a variety of presciption drugs for various illness's. kids start taking them ,when no one notices 2 pills turns into a bottle. elderly people tend to be forgetful and who would think your kids would take them?
i give a halfmoon my respect for even bringing his situation to light here. that is a very difficult bridge to cross. as parents in we want to take the blame ,afterall we are raising our kids to be good people. reality is they know right from wrong,and they have good manners. every law enforcement person,judge ,lawyer. all commented how polite my son was,very respectfull. then how can he do this? i didn't intend to air my dirty laundry on this site. but i felt that halfmoon should know he isn't the only one fighting this deamon,and maybe it helps making people aware of this problem. even among athletes.
kids are just about the only thing we get with out instructions. we do the best we can,then we learn some stuff and try to do even better.
Halfmoon and 20dad,
I sincerely hope things work out for the best and appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts so honestly and openly.
I hope that these few paragraphs will give you some optimism.
I grew up in a drug infested environment. There is nothing today that even comes close to startling me. Of my best high school buddies - about 20 of them - 8 were dead before the age of 20.
And the rest were headed the same way. Including my brother.
I always thought - as their friend - that I should try to help them any way I could. Calling them names wasnt one of those alternatives. And continually dragging their names up as "examples" was also - IMO - at best "muckraking" and at worst - "perversely satisfying" to some.
For the ones who did make it through - they became good husbands - and wives - and they have enjoyed a fulfilling life. And they remain my closest friends.
I never thought about giving up on any of them - and in many cases - it was well worth the time and effort spent helping them in any way I could.
I hope that you can keep your chin up - tell them the truth always - and provide the best support you can for them.
My best to you both during these challenging times.
I sincerely hope things work out for the best and appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts so honestly and openly.
I hope that these few paragraphs will give you some optimism.
I grew up in a drug infested environment. There is nothing today that even comes close to startling me. Of my best high school buddies - about 20 of them - 8 were dead before the age of 20.
And the rest were headed the same way. Including my brother.
I always thought - as their friend - that I should try to help them any way I could. Calling them names wasnt one of those alternatives. And continually dragging their names up as "examples" was also - IMO - at best "muckraking" and at worst - "perversely satisfying" to some.
For the ones who did make it through - they became good husbands - and wives - and they have enjoyed a fulfilling life. And they remain my closest friends.
I never thought about giving up on any of them - and in many cases - it was well worth the time and effort spent helping them in any way I could.
I hope that you can keep your chin up - tell them the truth always - and provide the best support you can for them.
My best to you both during these challenging times.
First of all, the whole point of the article was the story of Greg Barrett. Be careful who your kid hangs out with and educate them on the dangers of alcohol and drug use.
MLB teams are told now to much more closely follow up any rumors of drug use or problems with drinking with any prospects, esp high draft picks. Extremely embarrassing to an organization when they sign a drunk or drug addict. Scouts get fired for that and should be.
MLB teams are told now to much more closely follow up any rumors of drug use or problems with drinking with any prospects, esp high draft picks. Extremely embarrassing to an organization when they sign a drunk or drug addict. Scouts get fired for that and should be.
Frank Martin
I'm glad you spoke your own mined.
Here's an article for you to read.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16474383/?GT1=8921
It happen's it's a disease.
After reading the Article.
Answer this Question.
Should the President, Congress beheld responsible for the Judges action's??
EH
quote:MLB teams are told now to much more closely follow up any rumors of drug use or problems with drinking with any prospects, esp high draft picks. Extremely embarrassing to an organization when they sign a drunk or drug addict. Scouts get fired for that and should be.
I'm glad you spoke your own mined.
Here's an article for you to read.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16474383/?GT1=8921
It happen's it's a disease.
After reading the Article.
Answer this Question.
Should the President, Congress beheld responsible for the Judges action's??
EH
quote:Originally posted by Frank Martin:
Extremely embarrassing to an organization when they sign a drunk or drug addict. Scouts get fired for that and should be.
Certainly embarrassing to those who know what happened. I know a 3rd rounder (son's teammate) who got cut in spring training less than a year after he turned pro for flunking drug tests. It sure made the MLB team that signed him look stupid since he came to practice stoned everyday just before he was drafted.
halfmoon,
Thanks for your candid answers. Our kids have often told us that the fact that we do not drink made the choice easier for them to never start. Their friends who had parents who do drink (who also happen to be OUR friends) all drank or abused drugs in high school... ALL of them. Don't get me wrong - these are all responsible parents, good people engaging in adult behavior, but the message their kids got was that in order to REALLY have fun, you need a drink in your hand.
Most of those kids managed to make it through high school unscathed, a few got caught and paid the price with one or more athletic suspensions. And two ruined their chances for baseball or even college by making some really, really bad choices. And through it all, their parents looked the other way, covered up for them, lied for them, battled the authorities for them... did everything but, as PG said, look their kid in the eye. One of the boys bragged to the other players that he never played a baseball game when he wasn't high, and yet his parents claimed they never knew. And maybe they didn't REALLY know how bad it was, but they sure do now.
Here's another question for you, or for anyone else who's faced similar issues in their own family - if a friend had come to you and said they had reason to believe your son was involved in drugs, how do you think you would have reacted? I ask because the parents of one of the boys who I mentioned above have been our baseball friends for a number of years. They will no longer speak to us because they apparently felt we (as well as other team parents) should have said something. We heard rumors and had our own observations, but no hard facts. I wonder myself if we should have stuck our necks out... or if I would in the future if the situation arises again in our younger son's circle.
Thanks again... I think when it comes to parenting, we're all in this together. The more we can do to share information with one another, the better. You said in your post "this is critically important to somebody....I am absolutely sure of it. " I had written in my original post (and then cut it, because I tend to get very long winded!) something to the effect of "someone is reading this right now who has no idea how close this issue is to their own family"... and I do believe that's true.
Here's another suggestion for everyone - if your kids spend a lot of time online, find out what they're doing. Do they have a myspace or facebook account? Ask for access - if they won't give it to you, there is without a doubt something going on. Pull the plug on the internet until you figure out what it is -
Thanks for your candid answers. Our kids have often told us that the fact that we do not drink made the choice easier for them to never start. Their friends who had parents who do drink (who also happen to be OUR friends) all drank or abused drugs in high school... ALL of them. Don't get me wrong - these are all responsible parents, good people engaging in adult behavior, but the message their kids got was that in order to REALLY have fun, you need a drink in your hand.
Most of those kids managed to make it through high school unscathed, a few got caught and paid the price with one or more athletic suspensions. And two ruined their chances for baseball or even college by making some really, really bad choices. And through it all, their parents looked the other way, covered up for them, lied for them, battled the authorities for them... did everything but, as PG said, look their kid in the eye. One of the boys bragged to the other players that he never played a baseball game when he wasn't high, and yet his parents claimed they never knew. And maybe they didn't REALLY know how bad it was, but they sure do now.
Here's another question for you, or for anyone else who's faced similar issues in their own family - if a friend had come to you and said they had reason to believe your son was involved in drugs, how do you think you would have reacted? I ask because the parents of one of the boys who I mentioned above have been our baseball friends for a number of years. They will no longer speak to us because they apparently felt we (as well as other team parents) should have said something. We heard rumors and had our own observations, but no hard facts. I wonder myself if we should have stuck our necks out... or if I would in the future if the situation arises again in our younger son's circle.
Thanks again... I think when it comes to parenting, we're all in this together. The more we can do to share information with one another, the better. You said in your post "this is critically important to somebody....I am absolutely sure of it. " I had written in my original post (and then cut it, because I tend to get very long winded!) something to the effect of "someone is reading this right now who has no idea how close this issue is to their own family"... and I do believe that's true.
Here's another suggestion for everyone - if your kids spend a lot of time online, find out what they're doing. Do they have a myspace or facebook account? Ask for access - if they won't give it to you, there is without a doubt something going on. Pull the plug on the internet until you figure out what it is -
Mythreeson's, I believe I remember this topic from the Ladies Lounge a while back. It was a good topic and one that stirred up lots of reaction and comments. I look forward to the feedback from a more general and larger forum!
Good pointer about the Myspace. That can indeed be a nightmare if not monitered VERY closely.
Good pointer about the Myspace. That can indeed be a nightmare if not monitered VERY closely.
You should definately say something to a parent if you suspect they might be using drugs or have a problem drinking. They are not only a risk to themsleves, but suppose they get into a car , they are a danger to others. Plus nothing could be worse then not saying anything and they die from a car accident or overdose.
People abusing drugs or alcohol dont relize the stress and the worry they put their friends and family through, always fearing they gonna get a call from a hospital or police telling them their son or friend just died.
People abusing drugs or alcohol dont relize the stress and the worry they put their friends and family through, always fearing they gonna get a call from a hospital or police telling them their son or friend just died.