the h/school coach dont like my swing !!

Be very respectful and tell him you are currently working with someone. You feel very comfortable with the way you are hitting and to give you (?)number of at bats and if your not successful you'll work with him on some of those changes.
Hopefully you'll hit so well he won't want to change any thing

I would not say anything about working with another coach. I would just say "yes sir" and keep on working away. You will get the opportunity to hit in a game soon enough and if you produce he will soon forget about it. JMHO

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I would just say "yes sir"

I've had so many different hitting coaches over my career, all of them good, and they've all told me different things. Obviously you can't make everybody happy, so here's my advice.

1. Listen to what your coach has to say, even if you disagree with 95% of it, he may say one little thing that you may find useful.

2. Be respectful, and i would let him know that you've been taking lessons, that would give your ideas more credibility in his eyes.

3. Swing the way you know best, and MASH! If you show the results, he'll back off.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
I would not say anything about working with another coach. I would just say "yes sir" and keep on working away. You will get the opportunity to hit in a game soon enough and if you produce he will soon forget about it. JMHO

Great advice, "say yes sir" and "opps" I did not mean to hit the homerun.....I am trying to do better.

First of all be thankful you have a coach that "teaches", I've seen very few (that "I've" seen very few).

We had a similar issue with pitching. My advice to my son was take what you can use, incorporate it, and work around the rest.

My son has endured this for years including his current college team. Here is what has happened at every level (including college): He listens respectfully and then continues to swing the way he knows how without making changes. Every time (and I mean every time), the hitting coach has complimented my son on successfully implementing what the coach wants!

Translation: These coaches don't know what they're seeing. Worse, they see only what they want to.

Do what you've been successful at doing with two caveats: First, my son has learned something from nearly every coach he's had. Usually it's been something about the two-strike approach or how to recognize a pitcher tipping off his pitches, how to mentally prepare, etc. The point is that there is something, most of the time, to be learned from any coach. Second, good coaches coach at two levels. The first is the level you're at; the coach wants you to be successful right now. The second is for the next level up. Most high school swings that I have seen will not work well at the next level. Changes need to be made to be successful. This is true at all levels until you hit the major leagues. And even major leaguers continue to improve their swings and refine what they do. Nobody successful ever stops learning and improving.

So be aware of these two caveats, and continue to be respectful of your coach.

so what do coachess do? had to ask. As far as the coach not liking your swing. In my experience the proof is in the pudding. If the kid is hitting leave him alone. If it aint broke dont fix it.

Will

I agree--- you dont mess with what works--when the kid goes into slump them you talk about what he can do to help himself and he will be more acceptable to the advice

Hi Jim,
You use the words "old rotation" and " "bug squish" ". First of all, didn't the bug squish term originate from the Lau era? And second of all, when you talk about the "old rotation" style, are you talking about the way Barry Bonds, Pujols, Griffey or any of the top major leaguers hit today?

Perhaps your new coach is trying to help you swing like these big leaguers. If there is any possibility that you have the desire and ability to play professional ball some day, then swinging like the best professionals as soon as you can will probably serve you well. If on the other hand, your career will be ending at your current level, it's probably not worth it for you or your coach to pay the price it's going to take to learn to hit like these pros.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Will

I agree--- you dont mess with what works--when the kid goes into slump them you talk about what he can do to help himself and he will be more acceptable to the advice

What will be difficult is when a player goes into a slump and you start changing things at that point, you will most likely compound the problems. I prefer establishing good mechanics off season and when slumps happen, stress what has worked in the past and get back to what he has been trained to do instead of changing things at that point.

There are not good or bad styles. But there are styles that it works for you and others doesn't.
If you are doing well with the linear hitting you have to keep it, but that doesn't mean that the rotational style it is not good.
I am going to agree with some of the posters that said:
Say yes to the coach, and do what you want to do, if you hit, he will let you along.

As some of the posters have said always listen to what the coach says. Ask him what he sees that needs changing. Discuss it with the outside batting instructor. Take what you can use.

Last night the coaches were trying to change my sons swing also. I told him exactly what is being said. Always be respectful, take what you can from what they are telling you and continue to hit the way you know how. Once the games start and you hit they will leave you alone. He also has followed the Charlie Lau theory of hitting, including releasing the top hand a lot after contact which is what the coaches have an issue with but if you keep your head on the ball at contact you have to release after.

If you were being taught to squish the bug, you weren't being taught rotational in the first place. If you were, someone didn't understand the process. Being taught Lau or any other method linear or roational has a lot to do with what you believe in, how hard you work to practice it and how precise you are in your reps. Personally, I'm a rotational coach. You'd have a lot of trouble here if you weren't successful. However, I'd give you that chance to fail first.

One additional thought. If you are so convinced in your method, it'll prove itself on the field. If not, those that hit in the coache's prescribed manner are going to play and you're going to sit.

BTW, where (state) do you play? We can't start for another couple of weeks.

Coach I think that is all any kid can ask for is a chance. However, when a coach trys to change something without ever seeing a kid on the field in game situations that I believe is an issue. It sounds like you give a kid a chance to be successful with what he is comfortable with. If he isn't than he has to change and should want to change but if he is than you would leave him alone. I guess that what I'm getting at is there is no cookie cutter way to hit or pitch in your program.

Big1toe, no we don't believe in "cookie cutters." We do believe in taking a hitter and letting them run with what they do. However, in the end, we have a "base" which I've often alluded to in hitting posts that we will bring them to when it's time for change. From that, we let them be individuals. Pitching is much the same way although we've identified some traits that we think are dangerous. Our opinion. We would sit down with that player and their parents to show video to discuss proposed changes if we think that what they are doing is dangerous. (One example throwing in a manner where the finish after release involves the thumb on the pitching hand to be "up." If so, that pitcher is probably throwing with slider spin and could hurt their arm. If we can make a change in mechanics fine. If we have to redo everything (drastic change), time for a talk.

FWIW… A couple things

First… It was mentioned the swing was refined with Charlie Lau for two years. Just wondering if that meant using Charlie Lau’s techniques or actually working with him personally?

Next… This is a problem that pops up once in awhile every year on here. It’s a tough one to answer without knowing your coach. As a general rule… young players are usually best off thinking “The coach is always right” even when he is not right! Easier said than done sometimes.

Last… A personal experience. My second oldest boy was a flat out great hitter with awesome power in high school and college. He still holds about every hitting recrord at his high school. I would watch him hit and shake my head. He was too straight up and down (narrow stance) and started from a still hands position (no load). I often thought about changing him, but he was the best HS hitter I had ever seen. I decided to leave him alone because he was having great results.

When he got to pro ball he couldn’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag. That is when it dawned on me that I should have changed him years ago. They tried to change him in pro ball, but his habits were very well established. He had problems changing what he had been doing wrong his whole life.

It was a live and learn experience for yours truly. I should have apologized to him, but got caught up in all the early success. Deep down I knew his swing wouldn't work in professional baseball, but I convinced myself that he might be the exception.

Coach, you would sit down with him and the parents? I get the impression they don't want us involved at all and quite honestly I don't think I should be involved anymore. If what is wrong could cause an injury then it has to be pointed out. My son works hard on his pitching also which is really his goal but he doesn't want to just pitch in HS. What do you think of releasing the top hand on the bat after contact? Is it wrong? Charlie Lau did teach it this way.

PG great point what works in high school may not at higher levels and then it's too late.

Keep an open mind and be respectful at all times.

The day you think you have it all figured out and decide to completely tune out the opinions and theories of others is very likely the day you stop progressing as a hitter...especially being at the HS level. Good luck young man

PG,

Well said! While it is too late to change anything now for your son, I've read enough of your posts to know that by sharing your experience with others and giving them a chance to learn from it, the guilt you feel over it will lessen.

A few posts above yours, I said something nearly identical.

My personal experiece is similar to yours. As we all know, hind-sight is 20-20. I did ok in spite of my swing but could never reach my ultimate goal because of it. That is why when I am working with my sons or others who have potential to play at a high level, I am never hesitant to explain why they may want to make changes to their swings despite their current success. It's up to them to buy in and "pay the price" to make the changes. The longer they wait to do so, the harder it becomes.

I've read a lot of helpful things on this site, but I believe your feelings on this issue, especially given your knowledge and experience is a gem for others. I strongly suggest that everybody reread what you said and never forget it.

Of course the next step is to find someone or some way to learn what some of us had to learn the hard way.

Since this is going to end up on another page, the following is what PG wrote and in my personal opinion is some of the best advice anyone who wishes to hit at a high level or their parent will read and need to understand.

Quote by PG "Last… A personal experience. My second oldest boy was a flat out great hitter with awesome power in high school and college. He still holds about every hitting recrord at his high school. I would watch him hit and shake my head. He was too straight up and down (narrow stance) and started from a still hands position (no load). I often thought about changing him, but he was the best HS hitter I had ever seen. I decided to leave him alone because he was having great results.

When he got to pro ball he couldn’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag. That is when it dawned on me that I should have changed him years ago. They tried to change him in pro ball, but his habits were very well established. He had problems changing what he had been doing wrong his whole life.

It was a live and learn experience for yours truly. I should have apologized to him, but got caught up in all the early success. Deep down I knew his swing wouldn't work in professional baseball, but I convinced myself that he might be the exception. " end quote by PG

quote:

What will be difficult is when a player goes into a slump and you start changing things at that point,

the person is in a slump because he is not doing what he did before.

quote:

Originally posted by bb1:
Coach, you would sit down with him and the parents? I get the impression they don't want us involved at all and quite honestly I don't think I should be involved anymore.

In this scenerio, you are talking about a pitcher that makes the team that has mechanics that could hurt the pitcher. I have a parent on this site that can explain better than I what we do. We've already began discussion on how we are going to use his son and have a trainer involved already due to the nature of the injury - football injury. If that parent wishes, he can comment on what we do, and the line we establish with parents.

I have coached for 15 years, I show the kids how I think you should hit a baseball.

I tell them that what I teach comes from what I have studied, by watching hour after hour of video (in slow motion) of great hitters, from what I have read, from what I have heard and seen in person from top hitting instructors, and from my own expierences of watching hitters live. I have educated myself the best I know how, and they should do the same.

Now, I point out all of these things and tell them that maybe they can pick up something from my expierence to make them a better hitter, I do not force feed it. Above all, if I have a kid that is hitting the baseball I do not make drastic changes, I only point out things that I tell him may make him a great hitter from being a good hitter. Just give it a try, baseball is a game of very minor adjustments.

CV

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
… Deep down I knew his swing wouldn't work in professional baseball, but I convinced myself that he might be the exception.

I’ve never been a hitting guy, but I’ve been around a lot of them that have said they’d just the opposite on more than a few occasions too. Not that what your saying doesn’t happen, but that there are some hitters who do the things that will work at higher levels, but because they aren’t physically mature yet, or perhaps just don’t get the opportunity for other reasons, they don’t have much success at lower levels.

Then one day they get into the right position and just blossom, and people just sit around with their jaws on the ground wondering what happened.

Both ways end up being a waste of time to some degree

pg i respect your advise - some of the others dont seem as open .i have been with charlie lau's instruction and staff and will see him again this march. i have perfected this style of hitting and play on one of his instructors aau team. i just got picked for a spot on the ectb jr. olympic team as the starting catcher . my skills have me playing 1-3 yrs up depending on the oposition . i used to kill the ball hitting rotational but average and team support sufferd. i didn't think this would work for me but it does (thanks dad for sticking by me) the only problem is this h/s hitting coach and my aau coach are in a bit of rivalry .he rents our indoor training facility from our aau coach to do lessons. and i'm in the middle. they have digi video analized my swing and it looks great . but when i go to the clinic with the h/s coach he throws the soft toss from the oposite batters box at my center of gravity its in the spot i would hit a outside pitch .so he see's my hips not going around and says i should try to pull the ball???? . my bellybutton follows the ball my dad says . if i get him to throw it out front edge of the plate i can let it get across my body and turn on it /pull and he's all happy . he has no L-screen to throw from in front . my dad told me to be respectfull and come home and de-program. so i do . the jv coach is curious of me hitting inside pitchs and ability to hit a 2seamer riding in. so he pitched to me and saw how i hit it where its pitched . too bad the hitting coach didn't see us . please dont think i'm whinning or trying to start a debate . this style has helped me it's not for everyone.we went to this because the rotation had me fouling off anything that wasnt middle in (did take out a starting pitcher with a 17 pitch walk )mostly he can't watch whats happening with the naked eye and doesn't know what is right for this style . he knows i was taught this but kinda gets lost by it. he trys to incorporate the lau drills into his clinic which seems to be a cross style of all hitting styles . i keep my head on the ball and can check swing now . my batspeed at contact is up and so is my confidence .i want the bat when it's on the line!!! as far as the best hitters in the game i can name a few that use linear ,go to the ball,top hand realease,pull the knob . all the best hitters have most off these traights
PG AND COACH THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS I'LL LET THE BAT TALK! IF I CAN JUST GET HIM TO PITCH TO ME SO I CAN KNOCK THE COVER OFF OR THE L-SCREEN OVER HE'LL LET ME BE HUH??? all kidding aside i have learned from everybody .my dad has told me that everybody has something to offer you just gotta find the ring the cow swallowed in the poop!

For the record SBK...... Bug Squish has nothing to do with lau's swing. The body moves forward like the following record hitters george brett ,hank aaron, a-rod ,ted williams ECT. .
the back foot gets a 60-40 weight shift to 40 -60 at the point of contact to a finnish up on the toe . You dont try to grind the rear foot into a pivot point to spin on. It's more like a golf swing that the plane is elevated . Amagine if Tiger Woods stayed on his back foot and squished how far the ball would go !!!
SORRY COULD NOT RESIST -JIM'S DAD

This is a tough situation. I think it is important to try what your coaches are asking you to do, and that they see you trying.

When the games start, and you are hitting the cover off the ball, they will know they have trained a great hitter.

Now I understand what we truly have here. The last couple of posts have really cleared it up for me. So I will leave this one alone I have already been acused of running F&R off. Good Luck Coach your going to need it.

quote:

I tell them that what I teach comes from what I have studied, by watching hour after hour of video (in slow motion) of great hitters, from what I have read, from what I have heard and seen in person from top hitting instructors,

I think in order to be successful in anything you have to have an open mind but most of all be a good listener. If there was one way to do it everybody would look the same.

quote:

I think in order to be successful in anything you have to have an open mind but most of all be a good listener. If there was one way to do it everybody would look the same.

Style is so important to individuals in this game...I couldnt agree with you more.

.

PG,

Great story!...But with all due respects (and I have not seen your son hit)...I would disagree

Now, you've been "to the mountain", so I don't have to tell you any of this...BUT...

While mechanics are certainly a part of the equation at the elite level, After years of working with/assessing athletes you realize that success is a great deal more complex than pure mechanics, or lack thereof. Technical, mental, physical, emotional and spiritual, and genetic components all come into play.

While you are easy scapegoat(mechanics are an easy blame for all ills - just look at the hitting thread!), I'm not so sure you can blame the end result on your mechanics. Your son likely never would have acheived such lofty heights without your expertise, and hard work. I would argue that in the end there was a bigger picture.

44
.

quote:

he has no L-screen to throw from in front

Buy an L screen for the team and maybe the coach will leave you alone.

Hi Jim's Dad,

For the record, I believe anyone who grew up in the Lau era remembers hearing about "Squish the bug" ad nauseum. I'm also not sure why you brought up Ted Williams name. Many consider him the Godfather of today's rotational hitting.

I wish your son the best and have no interest telling him how to hit through my key board.

The reason I added my .02 was because Jim used the words "old rotation". I was just curious what he was taught in the past that led him to use these words. That's the reason I asked if he was talking about the way Barry Bonds, Pujols, Griffey or any of the top major leaguers hit today?

I thought perhaps in the past he might have been given some bad advice that left a bad taste in his mouth and perhaps the new coach was actually someone who would like to show him how the current top major leaguers are hitting. I was just trying to help.

As far as the Lau hitting style, I get a kick out of going to their site and see pictures of Bonds and Griffey as examples of their style. If they took their hands directly to the ball as the Lau linear style directs, I doubt anyone would have ever heard about them.

SBK- Amen to that. Griffey Clip
CV

quote:

While mechanics are certainly a part of the equation at the elite level, After years of working with/assessing athletes you realize that success is a great deal more complex than pure mechanics, or lack thereof. Technical, mental, physical, emotional and spiritual, and genetic components all come into play.

Observer44, right on. My son's mechanics have been praised by a number of people including a D1 batting coach who is highly esteemed, but his averages remain in the low .300's. Son's current hitting instructor says he thinks the problem is mainly between son's 2 ears and increasingly, sessions are geared toward addressing the mental aspect of his game. There's a lot more to hitting than good mechanics.

Probem?...hitting over 300?..waoo!

I firmly believe that even with excellent mechanics at the plate the toughest aspect is believing that you can hit---I love the kid who wants to be at the plate as the winning run and the bases loaded with two out

I have seen kids with not exactly great mechanics but they hit the hell out of the ball because of their confidence in themselves

BOTTOM line..he doesnt like your swing..He may be an idiot,,BUT he doesnt like your swing..

there are morons everywhere in life not just baseball..get used to it..

my kid had batspeed as a sophomore second to only one senior. and an arm like a cannon.Coach thought he lunged..CUT..
dont let that discourage you..just cause the math teacher coach doesnt like your swing doesnt mean its wrong.

Maybe he had to make room for his friends kid? who knows..Coaches are people too and can get swayd by many things..when my kid got cut the kids themselves told him he got screwed,,and he did, BUT thats life and politics.
Great talent in our school but never even a sniff of ever being in contention..they make the team freshman year and keep it throughout the next 4..NO MATTER WHAT!