He had alot of copies on the shelf.
quote:Originally posted by Orlando:
MLB has had a policy on steroid and drug use since 1991. Problem was lack of specific sanctions.
Use of these drugs without a medical-condition driven prescription was also against Federal Law long before these guys were pro ballplayers. So, unlike the over-the-counter greenies in use in the '40's into the '70's (when they became a controlled substance), these guys, MLB, and the PA are not in any way clear.
They didn't do this thinking it was right.
1991 Steroid Policy
Orlando,
The problem was more than a lack of sanction. I've posted about this before, as have you. And I guess I'm like a broken record, but I do like to see the actual facts kept in front of us. The 1991 policy didn't apply to MLB players, because the terms of the CBA prohibited a unilateral policy.
Perhaps Fay Vincent would have pushed these issues to the forefront in the next CBA, but the owners fired him, and replaced him with an owner.
Regardless, steroids (and amphetamines) were wrong, and the players all knew that. If the PEDs weren't wrong and illegal, players wouldn't have kept it secret. So I agree that players, MLB, and PA are not in the clear, whether there was a policy or not.
From a thread of a couple of years ago. The original link to comments by Vincent is now broken.
ESPN is showing an interview taken today where A-Rod is fully admitting PED use. Say's he's sorry, was young, and only did it during the time he was in Texas.
On an unrelated note, Micheal Phelps is turning cartwheels because this new just knocked him off the main page...
On an unrelated note, Micheal Phelps is turning cartwheels because this new just knocked him off the main page...
So A-Rod fessed up today.
Giambi admitted he used and now his name isn't even thought of when PEDs come up.
Do we all forgive A-Rod now or is he just that hated?
I say, name the other 103 and let's get on with it.
Giambi admitted he used and now his name isn't even thought of when PEDs come up.
Do we all forgive A-Rod now or is he just that hated?
I say, name the other 103 and let's get on with it.
I doubt it is a net positive for him. I'll check the RS message board to be sure. 
He still cheated on his wife. He's still a Yankee. I give him only small credit for owning up...when he had it shoved in his face. Had the SI story not broken, he wouldn't have spoken a word.
I think they call this something like "situational ethics"-come clean when you have to. It's like catching a bank robber with the money, who then says, "Yes, I stole it. I don't know what I was thinking...forgive me".
A permanent stain, sort of like a scarlet letter, that will follow him forever. They're going to need to build a huge addition to the HOF if they do a drug wing.
I think they call this something like "situational ethics"-come clean when you have to. It's like catching a bank robber with the money, who then says, "Yes, I stole it. I don't know what I was thinking...forgive me".
A permanent stain, sort of like a scarlet letter, that will follow him forever. They're going to need to build a huge addition to the HOF if they do a drug wing.
I fully agree with you, hokie. A few years back he told Couric in an interview that he had never used. Now that he's been outed, he's sorry. Sorry he was outed, I expect.
No credit for forced apologies.
No credit for forced apologies.
And he admitted using it for three years---2001 thru 2003 but says he did not know what it was---Really Now !!!!
Ah, the Bonds' defense:
Yes, I'm an astonishingly well-paid athlete whose body is the entire basis for my career and wealth. That is, of course, why I let people plunge needles containing --- oh, whatever --- into that Temple of Baseball. Is that a problem?
Yes, I'm an astonishingly well-paid athlete whose body is the entire basis for my career and wealth. That is, of course, why I let people plunge needles containing --- oh, whatever --- into that Temple of Baseball. Is that a problem?
quote:Originally posted by Orlando:
Ah, the Bonds' defense:
Yes, I'm an astonishingly well-paid athlete whose body is the entire basis for my career and wealth. That is, of course, why I let people plunge needles containing --- oh, whatever --- into that Temple of Baseball. Is that a problem?
Top competitive athletes do not like to finish second, and very few outside the athletic umbrella can understand that mentality. IMHO, our kids may be athletes, we read about the stars, discuss them, some worship them, but no one will understand what goes through each athlete mind, and that's what controls the action. We've all done things in our lives that other have judged as being wrong for a reason we felt was justified. The only difference here is that this is on a different scale and the public door is open for bashing.
Is it right to use PED's? Absolutely not.
Are today's PED's the last we will see.
Will there always be athlete who try to "buck" the system? Unless they ban athletic competition there will be.
If an athlete wants to pollute his vessel, so be it. IMO you now throw the record books out the window, let the system judge the cast of characters, and let the fans enjoy whats left of the game. A part of baseball as we saw it is lost forever
. I for one will not dwell on the negatives that I have no control over when the pure aspect of baseball with all ages is still intact.
He needs late inning, close game steroids.
Seriously though, his reputation will be tarnished forever. He is no longer in consideration for one of the greatest baseball players of all-time.
Seriously though, his reputation will be tarnished forever. He is no longer in consideration for one of the greatest baseball players of all-time.
Funny quip amog all the discussions on A-Rod today---some felt he was taking the wrong stuff--he needed to take the stuff that worked after the 7th inning and in close games
I was not in the least impressed with the interview. Although he DID say he was stupid...he kept using "it was the culture at the time" defense. HORSE HOCKEY! No one who makes the kind of money he did could NOT have NOT had a clue what he was doing. Nope...not buying that line at all.
JT
Especially when he always bragged that his body was a cathedral and he treated it that way--LOL
Especially when he always bragged that his body was a cathedral and he treated it that way--LOL
Funny thing is, his numbers from 2001-2003 aren't that different than the preceeding and subsequent seasons. If you believe he succumbed to pressure and expectations, then you believe in the fragile aspect of being human.
All the money and fame in the world wasn't enough to dispel the fact he is not much different than the majority of civilization. If you believe differently, I wouldn't argue it.
All the money and fame in the world wasn't enough to dispel the fact he is not much different than the majority of civilization. If you believe differently, I wouldn't argue it.
I understand it was bad what A-rod did, I am a huge Yankee fan and A-rod fan and I've never joined in with the boo-birds, that's saying something exspecially during the playoffs. When I first heard the news I felt betrayed, I wear the jersey number 13 on my varsity jersey. Then I heard his interview, although what he did is inexcusable, he said what needed to be said and you could see in his eyes he was truly sorry. Every one makes mistakes, even A-rod, but knowing the Yankees have nine years more with the guy and possibly more and I have several of my school jersey with 13 on the back I will forgive but will never forget. BTY he's still a hall of famer.
I don't know that the consistency in his numbers is anything other than an indication that he's only admitting to a few years of PEDs.
His nickname in hs was Chicken Legs. Came back from his first season in the minors a much bigger boy. In the '90's when, according to Canseco Vitamin S was common, why would Rodriguez not succumb, but wait until the years when suspicions were publically aroused and testing was imminent?
His nickname in hs was Chicken Legs. Came back from his first season in the minors a much bigger boy. In the '90's when, according to Canseco Vitamin S was common, why would Rodriguez not succumb, but wait until the years when suspicions were publically aroused and testing was imminent?
I agree with Orlando. There is zero reason to believe that Arod's usage was limited to a 3 year period. We certainly shouldn't take his word for it; he's already shown the capacity to earnestly lie about PEDs.
He's not the only one, either.
He's not the only one, either.
I spoke to my college junior son yesterday. They scrimmaged 5 hours each on Saturday and Sunday, and I told him I was glad he got a day to rest. Nope, he and one of his mates ran 5 miles. During the week, a few players on their own run and lift in the mornings, even though they then practice later in the day for 3-4 hours. He's in the midst of a pretty good college career and like all of these guys would sign a pro contract for a bucket of chicken if offered. As a pop I couldn't be prouder watching these guys do it the right way.
He has always liked A-Roid, despite his Yankeeness, until yesterday. His disgust was clear. So many college and high school players are doing it the right way, with lots of hard work, and while they may never play in Yankee Stadium, they will one day look back with no regrets, knowing they did everything they could to play at the highest level allowed by their talent, hard work, and yes, perhaps a little luck and timing. It's always sad when you hear athletes look back in later years and wish they had worked harder, or done things differently, but it's a pretty frequent lament.
A-Fraud won't be able to look back. He never needed a chemical boost, but he did it because he thought he could get away with it. He has now confessed because he got caught. He didn't trust hard work and his awesome talent to be enough. He's had the physical talent the whole time, it's character that's been lacking. Still is. It's very hard to rehabilitate your character in the public eye. No drugs will help. I hope he's on the long road to recovery for his own sake, but he'll never regain what he lost. He may be yet a role model, but in a way he never intended.
He has always liked A-Roid, despite his Yankeeness, until yesterday. His disgust was clear. So many college and high school players are doing it the right way, with lots of hard work, and while they may never play in Yankee Stadium, they will one day look back with no regrets, knowing they did everything they could to play at the highest level allowed by their talent, hard work, and yes, perhaps a little luck and timing. It's always sad when you hear athletes look back in later years and wish they had worked harder, or done things differently, but it's a pretty frequent lament.
A-Fraud won't be able to look back. He never needed a chemical boost, but he did it because he thought he could get away with it. He has now confessed because he got caught. He didn't trust hard work and his awesome talent to be enough. He's had the physical talent the whole time, it's character that's been lacking. Still is. It's very hard to rehabilitate your character in the public eye. No drugs will help. I hope he's on the long road to recovery for his own sake, but he'll never regain what he lost. He may be yet a role model, but in a way he never intended.
quote:you could see in his eyes he was truly sorry
....that he got caught, not that he did it.
According to some of the other folks I talk with I always seem to stand on the harsher side of any punishment.
I have a very low tolerance (zero) for cheaters and liars. They can be found on my bad list somewhere between child molesters and muslim terrorists.
I was raised to believe that a good man is always honest, and that integrity is doing the right thing, especially when nobody is looking. These are lessons I learned from my dad, and I thank him for them everyday. More importantly I want my two boys to have the same trait.
Both my boys love baseball. They eat, sleep, and breathe it! They are young (13 and 10) but they understand what is going on.
I know that different things were legal and illegal at different times. Thankfully someone else has to determine when who took or did what.
I hope for the future of baseball, and the future of our kids that the guilty parties are punished in a way that will make the next generation think twice about what they are doing and how it looks to the people that admire them.
Buck Weaver, Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose and others are paying a price for their actions. I think everyone should be held accountable for thier decisions.
CWM
I have a very low tolerance (zero) for cheaters and liars. They can be found on my bad list somewhere between child molesters and muslim terrorists.
I was raised to believe that a good man is always honest, and that integrity is doing the right thing, especially when nobody is looking. These are lessons I learned from my dad, and I thank him for them everyday. More importantly I want my two boys to have the same trait.
Both my boys love baseball. They eat, sleep, and breathe it! They are young (13 and 10) but they understand what is going on.
I know that different things were legal and illegal at different times. Thankfully someone else has to determine when who took or did what.
I hope for the future of baseball, and the future of our kids that the guilty parties are punished in a way that will make the next generation think twice about what they are doing and how it looks to the people that admire them.
Buck Weaver, Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose and others are paying a price for their actions. I think everyone should be held accountable for thier decisions.
CWM
.
Very good post hokieone
Very good post hokieone
quote:I have a very low tolerance (zero) for cheaters and liars. They can be found on my bad list somewhere between child molesters and muslim terrorists
Who would you consider not as bad as cheaters and liars? Child molesters or muslim terrorists? What about just run of the mill terrorists?
No wonder I saw him blow up last couple of years. I don't think he only use PED before 2004. I think we should start PED test at High School level. Some kids are definitely using it. Their heads are blowing out of proportion.
Anyone agree with the PED test at HS level? I think this is the way to fix this problem from the grass root.
Anyone agree with the PED test at HS level? I think this is the way to fix this problem from the grass root.
The darkness of your own soul is exemplfied in how you react to the misery and stumblings of others. Do you sound holier-then-thou or empathize because your own life has not been perfect?
It amazes me the hypocrisy displayed in these situations like as if no one here has ever used a suppliment to get pass an ache or pain, sleeplessness, bad marriage, financial difficulties etc. Do you drink alchohol, coffee, tea, smoke cigarettes, dope, etc. Have you ever cheated on your taxes, shaded on your expense account, gone over the speed limit (which is a form of cheating when the police are not around). I think you get get my point.
So lets understand that uppers in athletics have been used since the games started. When I played we were given little white pills called "ben-ies". It was common and no one thought anything about it.
The fact the the MLB knew that suppliments were being used, players knew it, the union knew it, and sports writer's have known it since baseball started and said nothing about it until blacks and other minorities started to break all the HOF records set by White players.
This is the height of hypocrisy. JMO
It amazes me the hypocrisy displayed in these situations like as if no one here has ever used a suppliment to get pass an ache or pain, sleeplessness, bad marriage, financial difficulties etc. Do you drink alchohol, coffee, tea, smoke cigarettes, dope, etc. Have you ever cheated on your taxes, shaded on your expense account, gone over the speed limit (which is a form of cheating when the police are not around). I think you get get my point.
So lets understand that uppers in athletics have been used since the games started. When I played we were given little white pills called "ben-ies". It was common and no one thought anything about it.
The fact the the MLB knew that suppliments were being used, players knew it, the union knew it, and sports writer's have known it since baseball started and said nothing about it until blacks and other minorities started to break all the HOF records set by White players.
This is the height of hypocrisy. JMO
quote:Originally posted by BBkaze:
The darkness of your own soul is exemplfied in how you react to the misery and stumblings of others. Do you sound holier-then-thou or empathize because your own life has not been perfect?
It amazes me the hypocrisy displayed in these situations like as if no one here has ever used a suppliment to get pass an ache or pain, sleeplessness, bad marriage, financial difficulties etc. Do you drink alchohol, coffee, tea, smoke cigarettes, dope, etc. Have you ever cheated on your taxes, shaded on your expense account, gone over the speed limit (which is a form of cheating when the police are not around. I think you get get my point.
So lets understand that uppers in athletics have been used since the games started. When I played we were given little white pills called "benies". It was common and no one thought anything about it.
The fact the the MLB knew that suppliments were being used, players knew it, the union knew it, and sorts writer's have known it since baseball started and said nothing about it until blacks and other minorities started to break all the HOF records set by White players.
This is the height of hypocrisy. JMO
bbkaze, that's totally BS, the coffee,tea, smoke &Suppliments are not "PED, are not the banned steroids, you are trying to misdirect the concept here. THERE'S NO EXCUSES FOR WHATEVER A-ROD DID. I don't think because of everybody are doing it makes it the right thing to do. JMHO
bbking
just another twist,bennie's, greenies, sreroids,etc. are illegal without a prescription. some may have had a prescription ....but i doubt it. if you or i have any of the above we get arrested. now that's BS.
there is an excuse for everything,when you really think about it. that doesn't mean we have to buy it,or think it's right.
just another twist,bennie's, greenies, sreroids,etc. are illegal without a prescription. some may have had a prescription ....but i doubt it. if you or i have any of the above we get arrested. now that's BS.
there is an excuse for everything,when you really think about it. that doesn't mean we have to buy it,or think it's right.
I think you are response to BBkaze, right? 
BTW, do you agree with the PED test at HS level?
BTW, do you agree with the PED test at HS level?
Remember diet pills in college to get you thru exam week?
What do think was in those pills?
What do think was in those pills?
BBkaze, Since you publicly admit to using "little white pills" what were they used for? Did they make you better than he players that didn't use? Bigger, stronger, faster, quicker?
Thanks.
Thanks.
I know you would like to keep the discussion on PED use but that missies the point why a player would inject, injest PEDS.
It's about getting an edge over your competition by using substances that help you cheat.
So the conversation is not about PEDS it's about "cheating".
Tell me you have never cheated on anything in your life and I will know by your answer you think cheating is okay.
JMO
It's about getting an edge over your competition by using substances that help you cheat.
So the conversation is not about PEDS it's about "cheating".
Tell me you have never cheated on anything in your life and I will know by your answer you think cheating is okay.
JMO
.
I tried cheating once in BINGO...got caught. Who knew they were keeping such close track of the numbers?
I'm no longer allowed to step foot on Sisters of No Mercy property ever again.
I tried cheating once in BINGO...got caught. Who knew they were keeping such close track of the numbers?
I'm no longer allowed to step foot on Sisters of No Mercy property ever again.
A-FRAUD.
Well at least he came "clean" unlike Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero, Sosa, Clemens, Mrs. Clemens and on and on and on.
After viewing the 4 pages on this, just a couple of comments.
Steroids were NEVER legal for these players to use without proper prescription so what baseball's rules were and when they were initiated is irrelevant.
Further comparing steroids, HGH, etc. to greenies and other such things is like comparing a cherry bomb to an A-Bomb. Greenies were/are about the same as an overdose of coffee. Steroids and HGH actually change the physical composition of the person.
Pete Rose once said that if you aren't cheatin' you aren't trying (and Pete oughta know).
A-fraud, and all the rest are just a bunch of cheaters. Twist it how you want, spin it how you want, they are cheaters, cheaters at the highest level possible and with the most potent products/chemicals/medicines available.
On the playground I remember how we treated cheaters. MLB and fans that just wanna win or won't believe their heroes have feet of clay...well this is and will be much to do about nothing which is really the shame of it all
Well at least he came "clean" unlike Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero, Sosa, Clemens, Mrs. Clemens and on and on and on.
After viewing the 4 pages on this, just a couple of comments.
Steroids were NEVER legal for these players to use without proper prescription so what baseball's rules were and when they were initiated is irrelevant.
Further comparing steroids, HGH, etc. to greenies and other such things is like comparing a cherry bomb to an A-Bomb. Greenies were/are about the same as an overdose of coffee. Steroids and HGH actually change the physical composition of the person.
Pete Rose once said that if you aren't cheatin' you aren't trying (and Pete oughta know).
A-fraud, and all the rest are just a bunch of cheaters. Twist it how you want, spin it how you want, they are cheaters, cheaters at the highest level possible and with the most potent products/chemicals/medicines available.
On the playground I remember how we treated cheaters. MLB and fans that just wanna win or won't believe their heroes have feet of clay...well this is and will be much to do about nothing which is really the shame of it all
"I might have got it at the mall.."
"I'm not sure what I took."
"I only took it for three years."
"The union never told me I tested positive"
"I just found out Sunday."
"I stopped when I got a neck pain."
"I never asked the right questions"
This guy is the softest hall of famer in the history of baseball.
Can he take something before the playoffs kick in. I guess Steroids don't work in the playoffs?
quote:Originally posted by baseballbum:
Can he take something before the playoffs kick in. I guess Steroids don't work in the playoffs?
LOL..They wear off by October..Maybe sacfifice them May stats and juice up later.
And now for your indicting pleasure, we give you:
Miguel Tejada
Per CNN, he will plead guilty tomorrow to lying to Congress.
Who knew when I went to law school it could have overlapped into a continuing involvement in baseball?
Miguel Tejada
Per CNN, he will plead guilty tomorrow to lying to Congress.
Who knew when I went to law school it could have overlapped into a continuing involvement in baseball?
Lying to congress is a crime? Why? They lie to us ALL THE TIME!
RK that was funny and sooooooo true!
As far as Arod, you know the old saying "the truth shall set you free"....I'm thinking perhaps he's got a monkey off of his back, I expect a good year.
As far as Arod, you know the old saying "the truth shall set you free"....I'm thinking perhaps he's got a monkey off of his back, I expect a good year.
Why should we even buy what he is saying now? WHy should we believe he is clean now-because he said so? He has ruined his credibility and did not help his cause when he stated he "did not know" what he was taking or where he got it FOR THREE YEARS.