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The Liars Club

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
There's a wise passage I italicized that applies to any college sport including baseball. It came up in a recent thread.

Dan Shaughnessy - Boston Globe

College coaches lie. How do these guys sleep at night?

It’s unfair, of course, to include all coaches in the Liars Club, but it’s an odious and ever-expanding group. Put Lane Kiffin in a room with Jeff Jagodzinski, John Calipari, and Rick Pitino (note: previous three are all former college and/or pro coaches in Massachusetts) and you could make a polygraph machine explode.

I’ve always liked the pro game more than college because professional teams all work with the same rules. It’s a cutthroat business, but it’s all out in the open.

Big-time college sports is different. Nobody who competes can possibly play by the rules, so we get degrees of cheating. Duke plays UNLV and it’s framed as the clean guys against the rule-breakers.

In big-time college sports, institutions create phony academic sanctuaries for young men who couldn’t find a campus with a GPS. Yahoo towns with nothing else to offer make college football/basketball a local religion with poisonous Booster Clubs (“I love Dillon Panther Football’’: Buddy Garrity) and grubby bag men selling players like antique cars. Meanwhile, the “student-athletes’’ (love the NCAA pomposity there) look at the fistfuls of cash being made by coaches and universities and wonder how they can make a score for themselves. Many never graduate.

The guardian at the gate of this cesspool is the lying head coach in search of his next (bigger) job. He’s the guy with the one-way contract and zero conscience. He’s the one who goes into the living rooms and makes promises to kids and parents. He romances the athletic department, the student population, and the local yahoos (i.e. people who’d buy a book written by Calipari). He knows he’ll get paid even if he fails, because, well, he has a contract. But as soon as a sweeter deal comes along, he blows out of town leaving a trail of chaos, confusion, broken promises, and maybe some impending NCAA sanctions.

Memo to high school athletes everywhere: Do not believe the man or woman who tells you how great things will be if you come to play at State U. Choose a school because you like the school, not because you like the coach. Schools are institutions. They stand still. They don’t relocate. Coaches? They lie and they leave. And unlike you, they don’t have to take a year off when they decide to go to another school.

Kiffin’s departure from Tennessee last week set the gold standard for the Royal Order of Coaching Liars - no small feat in any club that includes Coach Cal. One year after riding into Knoxville with promises of beating Florida and singing “Rocky Top’’ all night long, Kiffin stiffed athletic director Mike Hamilton and bolted for Southern Cal to fill the vacancy left by Pete Carroll. Pumped-and-jacked Pete is having another go of it with the NFL (Seahawks) and needed to get out of ’SC before the NCAA comes down with penalties in the wake of multiple investigations. USC already put itself on probation for basketball violations.

In fairness to Carroll and USC, it must be noted that Kiffin leaves behind his own mess of at least six secondary NCAA violations and an ongoing NCAA review of the Vol football program regarding use of “hostesses’’ to attract recruits. Very nice.

The 34-year-old Kiffin’s departure triggered a near-riot in Knoxville. He needed a police escort to get off campus and it only got worse when it was learned that his assistant, Ed Orgeron, had contacted Tennessee-committed recruits to remind them that USC was now an option. The jilted Vols immediately tried to steal Duke’s head coach before settling for Louisiana Tech’s.

On and on it goes.

Kiffin’s timing is particularly brutal. Losers who catalogue such things (folks who dedicate their lives to ranking 16-year-old offensive linemen) claim Kiffin’s 2010 recruiting class was top-10 material. National signing day is Feb. 3, and eight of Kiffin’s recruits enrolled at Tennessee last week so they could get jump-starts for spring practice. After the shocking switch, some of the recruits stayed away from the classroom, believing it might enable them to get out of their scholarship commitments.

Gary Willis, the father of a Vol recruit, Brandon Willis, told USA Today, “I knew we weren’t going to Tennessee, because Kiffin was the only reason we were going. They called and offered him a scholarship to Southern Cal. I told them, ‘If I can’t trust you at Tennessee, I can’t do Southern Cal, because if somebody offered you more money, you would get up and move again.’ ’’

Willis, a defensive end, is taking his skills to North Carolina.

“Coach Kiffin recruited me,’’ redshirt freshman Robert Nelson told the New York Times. “Ed Orgeron came in my living room and recruited me and now they’re gone. Guys were really angry at him last night. Really angry.’’

Just as angry as those Boston College football players who were brought to Chestnut Hill by smiling Coach Jags while he plotted his (brief) return to the National Football League. Just as angry as those kids Coach Cal brought to Memphis hours before he bailed for his dream job at Kentucky.

Remember all the lies we got from Pitino when he ran the Celtics? Little Ricky could always make it go away by saying, “That was how I felt at the time.’’

Same with Kiffin. He really believed all those things he was saying about Tennessee.

Knoxville was the best place for those kids.

That’s how he felt at the time.

Before the betrayal.

** The dream is free. Work ethic sold separately. **

Last edited {1}
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Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
I think some of these guys are obviously pretty bad. Kiffin's departure after only 1 year is particularly troublesome.

But let's get real, folks. Adults seldom hold the same job forever. The school certainly doesn't make a forever commitment to the coach; he can be fired, you know. Who among us would not be willing to change jobs if it meant a 7-figure raise? Go ahead, tell me you wouldn't. Then YOU can join the Liars Club, too.

What amazes me is that kids and their families see this going on all the time and still claim to have believed that the coach would be there forever. Baloney.

The reality is, at any given time, the coaching staff is trying to do its job, which is to recruit as well as possible and play as well as possible. They have no way of knowing if a better offer will come along from somewhere else, or if they're just doing it out of pride in their current jobs or (for the more cynical) out of fear of losing that job or the desire to get a raise at their current job. Either way you look at it, the coaches' job is to go get the best players they can find for their program at any given time.

If a school wants to assure that a coach never leaves for greener pastures, it can put a restrictive clause in his contract, or maybe just pay him enough that he's not tempted to look around. But when you pay less than your competitors and the guy you hire specifically refuses to sign a contract with a restrictive covenant in it, you know darned well what he has in mind and what risk you're taking. Maybe it saves face to hold press conferences and leak snarky comments to the media, but who's kidding whom?

It can happen at any time. Everyone knows it can happen at any time. And anyone who pretends they didn't know that up front can join the Liars Club, too.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
There was a player from down here on the radio about the situation (he was one who did not begin school early), very candid, he said he was never promised the coach would stay and that he liked UT more than any school. He was disappointed though.

However, he did mention that he got a call from another coach and will be seeing him this week. o teh coach from that school is not recognizing that the player made a commitment? Doesn't that make him wrong too, rough business.

I motion to elct Nick Saban persident of the Liar's Club.
Last edited by TPM
C CaBB1,000+ posts
The recent movie the "Blind Side" showed the "coaching carousel" really well. The coaches played themselves in the movie while recruiting Michael Ohr. I think most of them had changed schools by the time the movie came out.

Also speaking of Dan Shaughnessy- his son played @ Boston College. I saw him on the roster for 2 years but not listed on the 2010 roster. His father wrote a very moving book about his senior year in hs. Loved the book but I wonder if it was tough on his son to have so much exposure?
rz1rz15,000+ posts
2 thoughts

1. That one year of sitting out will never work because if a college can fire a coach while under contract, why can't he quit while under contract? Some will argue that the college should write a clause in the contract that prohibits him from leaving but if I was a coach I would counter with a clause that prohibited me being fired. Neither side will want to lose that option.

2. It's a good thing I live in WI because I'll need a lot of cheese to go with all this "whine" that's being served. I think people should sit back remember the real reason an athlete goes to college is an education. You don't hear students betch because professors leave for greener pastures. Besides, when looking at the big picture these issues only surface when pompous programs hire pompous coaches. If you look at all the sports programs from all the various college levels there, is very little of this ego driven "card game". We should let those "elite" programs and coaches aire their dirty laundry and reassure ourselves that 99% of student athletes will not get an athletic paycheck and maybe mom/dad/kid should have had a reality check to what the definition of a student/athlete actually is.
Last edited by rz1
L 2014_Lefty_Dad100+ posts
Kiffin will need that 7 figure raise to afford the increase in the cost of living in So. Cal over East TN. (Midlo Dad, raises have to be evaluated in the net results not gross.)

As a UT Alumus, I am glad we are rid of him, and now have a coach that understands tradition and the SEC. There may be a set-back for this next year, because of the recruiting shake-up, but in the long run, I believe it will be a lot better.
Last edited by 2014_Lefty_Dad
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
I think people should sit back remember the real reason an athlete goes to college is an education.
I don't believe this is true for a majority of D1 football players, almost all D1 basketball players and a reasonable number of D1 baseball players.

quote:
You don't hear students betch because professors leave for greener pastures.
A professor is usually a one semester interaction. A coach and his style will have a three or four your impact on the student-athlete's profession.

quote:
Besides, when looking at the big picture these issues only surface when pompous programs hire pompous coaches.
Yep, look at the history of the program and hiring within the program and chances are you make a good decision.

Pick the college and the program, not the coach. Chances are if a good coach leaves a good program (not under the hot light of an NCAA investigation) chances are the next hire will be a good one.
Last edited by RJM
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by RJM:
quote:
I think people should sit back remember the real reason an athlete goes to college is an education.
I don't believe this is true for a majority of D1 football players, almost all D1 basketball players and a reasonable number of D1 baseball players.

quote:
You don't hear students betch because professors leave for greener pastures.
A professor is usually a one semester interaction. A coach and his style will have a three or four your impact on the student-athlete's profession.

quote:
Besides, when looking at the big picture these issues only surface when pompous programs hire pompous coaches.
Yep, look at the history of the program and hiring within the program and chances are you make a good decision.

Pick the college and the program, not the coach. Chances are if a good coach leaves a good program (not under the hot light of an NCAA investigation) chances are the next hire will be a good one.


I'd agree with all except the comment about "professors." Many students select colleges based, partly, on the faculty within their major. Just as with athletics, the relationship with professors in your major is a multi-year affair. And just as with athletics, the departure of a top professor can be devastating, particularly to those who who were working as, or planned to work as grad assistants.

The reason you don't hear about it is that very few are making high six figure or seven figure salaries or get the media attention a coach does. Never the less, there is recruiting that goes on within academia and many professors make moves to institutions that offer more money, better faciilities, courses more aligned with their interests, a high level of student and perks. Not much different from what leads coaches to move on.

I moved across the country to attend college because of a specific faculty member who had published a number of works that I admired. I was lucky enough to make the baseball team as a walk on who had a firm grasp of my athletic ability and my limitations. (second string first baseman and pinch hitter in lead-off situations)
RonBonRonBon100+ posts
Most D1 level programs have become very specialized in the style of playing their particular sport. "Pro Style Vs. Spread offenses", "Small ball Vs. Long ball" etc.

Coaches recruit players that fit those styles. A recruit may have more than one school choice, and most do, and most likely will choose one school over another because of that style. To say they are there for the academics over the athletics is simply not facing reality. The recruit can get an education at both schools but the one that best fit his athletic need is the one that won out.

Schools hide behind the stance that the recruit is there for the "academics". If that were true coaches would not be recruiting players and parents, deans and professors would be recruiting them.

The NCAA allows the schools to hold recruits who were recruited to play a sport, at an institution, in a system, for a coach, to be held to a different binding agreement than the coaches themselves. The schools do it because they can hold the player, who has no rights in this fight, to a standard that they can not hold the adult who is trying to make a living and has legal rights to market his skills in a free market to earn that living. The NCAA is made up of the very schools they are there to govern and why would they bite the hand that feeds them? Money

If someone were to ever find a way to take the athlete's plight to a court of law they would blow the lid off of the whole thing. But you see, the problem is they are not earning a living, simply an education, and one school can do that just as well as the other, so what's the big deal?(sarcasim)

If my son were recruited by a professor and that professor left my son should be able to leave and he could. He could apply at another school and be eligible for another scholarship. He would not have to sit out of his area of study for a year. Why should athletes be held to any different standard? Money

The easiest fix to this whole situation is for the NCAA to allow recruits and Red-shirt freshmen out of their commitments to the school if the coach leaves while still under contract. That will never happen...

Think about that scenario for second. Think of the ripples it would cause. What would the schools do to protect themselves? What power would that give coaches? "I can bring my two 5 star blue chippers with me." The NCAA would never let that cat out of the bag. Even if they blocked the players from following the coach it would still leave the school with a huge whole in their ability to compete at a high level.

I hate it. It stinks. It's broke, but my feeble mind can't fix it either. I give up.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
The easiest fix to this whole situation is for the NCAA to allow recruits and Red-shirt freshmen out of their commitments to the school if the coach leaves while still under contract. That will never happen...
Something in a different context with the same result happened to someone we know. The new Wake coach offered any recruit of the previous coach an opportunity to walk. The kid switched to Florida.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
quote:
The new Wake coach offered any recruit of the previous coach an opportunity to walk. The kid switched to Florida.


That may be true, but the kid in question had not yet signed his NLI anyway. So while classy, it was also just a recognition of reality.

Too bad for us, I hear good things about that kid.
Aside from his talent I hope you also heard what a class act the kid is. From the time he was in LL he was looking adults in the eye and shaking their hands. He never forgets the name of someone he's met. He addresses everyone with complete respect. He's been a mature adult since he was a kid. It also says something about the parents.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by RJM:
quote:
rz1 quote: I think people should sit back remember the real reason an athlete goes to college is an education.
I don't believe this is true for a majority of D1 football players, almost all D1 basketball players and a reasonable number of D1 baseball players.


I'd like to give kids more credit and think that they understand the statistics that show that over 90% of NCAA athletes will not be professionals in that sport. I understand the "dream" concept, but not long after the first day of school "plan B" takes affect and whether they like it, or even admit to it, they change from a "wanna-be professional athlete", to a "professional student" who is also a collegiate athlete.

I guess there will always be that group of "numb-skulls" who go to college for athletics only and most will quickly fade into that cavern of "academically ineligible". However, I believe that if you exclude the group of athletes who drop out during their first year, you will find that the tag "student/athlete" is alive and well in respect to D1 programs as a whole.

Many ex-athletes on this site have admitted to not being the "prize student" and athletics were the main reason for college. However, when all was said and done they did not play professional sports but are using that college education toward their career. That IMO is a student/athlete. To finish school is hard enough, to finish and have athletics involved is more of an accomplishment.
Last edited by rz1

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