The List

Wood and Prior? Now there's an advertisment for the effectiveness of steroids if I've ever seen one!

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Wood and Prior? Now there's an advertisment for the effectiveness of steroids if I've ever seen one

LOL!!!

I was afraid Pujols was going to be on the list. He's about twice as big as he was in JC.

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Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
Wood and Prior? Now there's an advertisment for the effectiveness of steroids if I've ever seen one!

I'm really sad as a lifelong Redbird fan that Pujols is on there.

Let the excuse-making begin. I'm sure we'll be hearing a lot of this stuff..."I was injured or had surgery and during the off-season I used HGH to heal faster so I could play the following Spring"...etc. etc. etc.

In all seriousness, seeing Jason Varitek's name on that list is heartbreaking.

Its not the official list yet!

..and the threats of lawsuits that are never filed.

It would be interesting to see what teams are very heavy with users.

I am also very surprised that there are not more names on the list, if these guys are using, you can't tell me more guys who want to be as good are not using as well!

When the first round of testing in MLB started in (I think) 2003, didn't over 100 players test positive in the initial test? How is it that this current list is less than 100 players? Shouldn't it logically be more like 150 or 200?

And what about the clubhouses where they couldn't get anyone to talk? Or what about the pharmacies they didn't get mailing lists from? We'll never really know how long this list could/should have been.

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Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
In all seriousness, seeing Jason Varitek's name on that list is heartbreaking.

Yes, that is. But there are a lot of others that are as well.

I still believe that the single biggest problem here was not each individual player but MLB's ignoring the problem for so long. I believe that was a calculated decision that paid off $$ for a while but shouldn't anymore...and that someday, someone will write a "tell-all" book that will be tremendously embarrassing to the upper echelons of baseball.

In some ways, although apparently guilty of very bad judgement, I see these players as scapegoats. In many businesses if there's a failure of a group of workers, the boss is held responsible as well. I wonder if any of that will happen here?

People are quick to jump on these 'lists' but the thing to keep in mind is when exactly were performance enhancing drugs banned from the MLB and will there be dates of when said players used?

You see names on these lists that haven't played since the 90s.

As YHF said wasn't the first round of testing done in 2003? Prior to that was there any rules on performance enhancing drugs? If no, then it was 'fair game' by anyone in the MLB.

Or at least that's my thoughts on it.

This list may be incomplete. I'm watching ESPN and Jeremy Shaap just showed attachments to the report with copies of checks and receipts for the purchase of steriods/hgh by different major leaguers. He named Denny Neagle and Fernando Vina and then moved on. Those guys are not on the above list.

We may have to post a revised list.

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by jbb: although apparently guilty of very bad judgement, I see these players as scapegoats

that's an interesting take ... the players who "used PEDs" are really the victims

The report is out, many of the above listed names are not on the list.

The honest players who didn't take drugs are the victims.

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Originally posted by Bee>:

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by jbb: although apparently guilty of very bad judgement, I see these players as scapegoats

that's an interesting take ... the players who "used PEDs" are really the victims

Bee> Big difference between "victim" and "scapegoat."

justbaseball will address this much better than I will but those on the list are likely only a percentage of the true users and a smaller percentage of those who should shoulder responsibility..
Because they are on the list, they will be a particular focus.
It is pretty unlikely there is going to be a list of owners/GM's/team doctors/trainers and the like who are just as responsible for the problem, maybe more so.
I think that is what justbb meant and I agree with him 100%.

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by ifdad: Bee> Big difference between "victim" and "scapegoat."

only if "spun" expertly

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by Roget:

Main Entry: scapegoat
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: sucker
Synonyms: dupe, fall guy*, goat*, mark*, patsy, sacrifice, substitute, sucker, target, victim, whipping boy

Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)

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Originally posted by infielddad:
It is pretty unlikely there is going to be a list of owners/GM's/team doctors/trainers and the like who are just as responsible for the problem, maybe more so.

That is EXACTLY what I meant...and I suspect Bee> knows that but as usual likes to stir the pot and taking one small snippet from an overall message so as to dilute/deflect/re-cast the intention.

Garciaparra was not one of the players named despite this list. He only showed up in reference to a trade which included him and players noted as users.

Yeah, whoever "leaked" this list didn't compile it correctly obviously. Looking at the exhibits to the report there are a bunch of names not on this list. I'm sure ESPN and others will compile the formal list(s) for us then we can analyze it.

The actual list is long, and obviously incomplete. The above list is incorrect.

http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

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I suspect Bee> knows that but as usual likes to stir the pot and taking one small snippet from an overall message so as to dilute/deflect/re-cast the intention.

the "flaxseed oil" was tainted by the GMs?

It will be interesting who "mans-up" and who hides

Prior and Wood were not in the report. It looks like someone did some sort of search, found names with these last names in them or words that had these names in them. i.e. the word prior was used often in the report but not in reference to Mark Prior.

They are busted. Canceled checks to convicted drug dealers are in the report.

I don't think we can moralize regarding their decisions. Who can blame the players for trying to get an edge to set themselves up for life, especially those late to the party.

I blame baseball for being so slow to react and for still not administering the sport correctly. The sport has grown exponentially over the past three decades and is still being run like a local traveling circus.

I don't see them in the report either. In fact, there doesn't appear to be a "list" or series of "lists" in the report. Players are named in different sections depending on where the accusation/evidence came from, etc. It's going to take a while to put lists together.

There are plenty copies of checks, money orders, shipping documents, etc. included in the report.

HEY EVERYONE, I DELETED THE LIST THAT STARTED THIS POST. SINCE IT'S OBVIOUSLY NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED, I DIDN'T FEEL IT WAS FAIR TO GUYS ON THERE THAT PERHAPS SHOULDN'T BE ON THERE. IT'S AVAILABLE ON THE WEB IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT.

MY APOLOGIES.

I was relieved to do word searches on the file and not find a few favorite names.

I was also pleased to see/hear the emphasis on what needs to happen.

I don't expect to be pleased by Selig or the Union, however.

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Originally posted by Bee>:

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I suspect Bee> knows that but as usual likes to stir the pot and taking one small snippet from an overall message so as to dilute/deflect/re-cast the intention.

the "flaxseed oil" was tainted by the GMs?

Nope, they just looked out at those seats filled with paying customers while the head trainer was telling them about players asking about steroids.
Helps if you read the report!

Scanning the report, I didn't see Pujols name in there. Might have missed it. I did see a couple money orders where the signatures were not readable, but they could have been Albert's.

Didn't see Varitek's name either but again might have missed it.

Pujols name isn't in.

The report certainly didn't live up to the hype

From page SR-36 of the report:

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3. Obviously, the players who illegally used performance enhancing substances are responsible for their actions. But they did not act in a vacuum. Everyone involved in baseball over the past two decades – Commissioners, club officials, the Players Association, and players – shares to some extent in the responsibility for the steroids era. There was a collective failure to recognize the problem as it emerged and to deal with it early on. As a result, an environment developed in which illegal use became widespread.

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Originally posted by TripleDad:
The report certainly didn't live up to the hype

The lid is in one piece and didn't blow very far.

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Originally posted by TripleDad:
The report certainly didn't live up to the hype

The lid is in one piece and didn't blow very far from the container.

YHF,
Thanks for deleting the list, one of the moderators should probably delete this entire thread.

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The lid is in one piece and didn't blow very far from the container.

Agree