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I know Rowlett has at least two no hitters this season and couldn't tell you how many shutouts. Not as many as Martin but quite a few. They are going to be a strong group. I have a nephew in the program and everyone seems to be really excited about next year.
Varsity had a tough loss to Naaman last night with the tying run being thrown out at the plate to end the game in a 5-4 loss. Great game though!!!
On this subject of the neglected, how many schools out there have ended their sub varsity seasons this past weekend? I know one school that always play their last games the Saturday before spring football starts so the ones who are playing f-ball don't miss the first practice that starts the following Monday. They get their 25 games in, but they only play each district opponent one time. Some of the closer schools they play 3 and 4 times. I know football rules the world around this state, but I think this is a bunch of bull butter. The kids who want to keep playing baseball get to "practice" until school is out for the day and then they go home. Oh yeah,that "practice" is usually hitting in the cages if they can get in one and is unsupervised.

I'm sure there are other schools who do the same thing. I think the Plano schools do this and maybe Allen. Are there others?
i think this is a great topic.

when the sub varsity schedule is over what do you do with them the rest of the year.

I think it comes down to the # of coaches,

You guys must understand that the 1st and most important thing at this point is getting the varsity into the play-offs. Most places do end the sub varsity schedules a bit early. If you have 5 coaches then i think it is feasible to work out the sub varsity and continue to play games if you would like.


I have done it both ways ( played non district games through april, or shut them down in the middle of april when the district schedule ends)

I think football has a small factor in my decision making. My jv coach is the offensive coordinator. But I work with him and I get 3 more coaches in return for the good faith effort.


We will pull up some of the players we think can help us next year and that is what we go with until the season is over.

I think that is pretty generic way of doing it and most follow this procedure i would assume..


maybe someone can share what their school is doing after sub varsity is over. I would like to hear what others are doing...
I guess i'm just naive. I expected more from 5A baseball. My son plays JV and his level of play has gone down since the playing HS ball. He came into the HS season after summer and fall select ball ready to play baseball. His hitting, fielding, and aggressiveness have all gone south. It is amazing to me what a few weeks in the hands of these coaches can do to a ball player. Can't wait till summer ball starts again.
boy thats the answer blame someone else for your problems...

yea its the coaches fault, thats always a good answer. you can always find 10 -15 sets of parents that will back you on that one.

Coaches are governed by the uil which states that you can only practice for 8 hrs a week. Most schools have 1 maybe 2 fields to accomplish these 8hrs of work. This makes it difficult to give the one on one work needed to make a player great. So yea its the coaches fault. What about the school district???

They do the hiring of the assistant coaches (maybe that jv coach you are referring to )
this guy may be a football guru with no baseball knowledge. Again this is the coaches fault.

Here is a great idea screwball. What if your kid stays after practice 3 days a week and gets some work done and maybe you can go and throw to him. I think instead of blaming the coach you might want to look at the whole situation 1st. High school baseball is being killed by this attitude "i cant wait for the summer"

Here is one more idea for you, why dont you set a good example to your son and tell him to work his tail off everyday and tell him to focus on the season at hand and when the summer comes you can start focusing on the summer. You dont have to tell your kid what your attitude is about hs baseball because he already knows what you think. So im sure he is one productive player in his hs program given your attitude towards it.


lastly, if you are unhappy then just quit playing high school ball and play "select spring ball" oh they dont have that yet..
Dont downgrade your coach, if you are unhappy then do the right thing and just quit. These coaches have enough worries throughout the day than to wonder if his kids are committed to his hs program..
Man, I agree ctiger. I happen to like our new coach at son's school very much. But if junior feels the need or if something is slipping, we work on it at home or he works on it at school after practice.

Coach at HS works very hard to balance developing players with competing, all with a total of 4 coaches for three teams.

I enjoy junior's summer team as well, but I have no problem with how hard the coaches at the HS are working to make these teams better.
I can see both sides of this issue.

I have seen HS programs with well organized practices, where players get in a good number of reps. But even in these, the best players spent a fair amount of time outside practice honing their skills.

I have also seen HS programs where practices are not well laid out and players hardly get in any reps. In these, it was critical for players to spend time outside practice honing their skills.

The sheer numbers work against the coach. It is not unusual for a baseball program to only have three coaches total for all the teams. The player to coach ratio is pretty darn high.

And just as with anything in life, there are good and bad.

ctiger is one of the good HS coaches, but I have to admit I've seen some not so good. But nearly everyone of them has good intentions. They are certainly not in it for the money.

Bottom line - it is up to your son to see that his skills grow. He can't delegate that responsibility to anyone else.

ctiger does hit on an interesting idea. Use the spring as an off season for training, playing select summer and fall.
Last edited by Texan
my point exactly

you are the only one that can make your son maximize his ability..

a high school coach takes these players and tries to make them overachieve. Sure there are some mechanical issues at times that coaches need to see.

but, we get them 2 hrs a day and you get them 22 hrs a day.

Feed them well
rest them well
and then send them to the high school coach with a great attitude

if you dont like the situation then play s****r...
screwball,
Consider the level of skills by all the players on the JV team...Not all kids play "select"...not all parents can afford it & many do not see the "value"...

Coaches "get what they get" from the public school system, and most teams are a big mixture of talent, skills, desire, promise, socio-economic background, knowledge, etc.

5A only means the number of students attending the school, (around 2000-2300). Then, look at the athletic pool, break it down farther to those interested in baseball, etc, etc. Just because there are 2000 students doesn't neccessarily mean 200 (or even 20-30) are baseball players.

Varsity is where the focus is, simply because that's the team that wins district, goes to playoffs, etc. Coaches' agenda is to put the best 9 out there that are going to take the team the farthest.

I agree with ctiger...work with your kid...or pay for whatever help he needs. That would certainly help the JV team, coach, program, for the day he can move up Varsity. Hopefully, he can encourage his fellow JV'ers to put in the neccessary work & time to move up with him. He could also work with Var. players after hours...start developing those relationships. It will show Coach how serious your JV'er is.
Last edited by baseballmom
In a lot of cases it is a football guy in charge of the sub-varsity teams. Sometimes by choice, sometimes by need. Just like in everything, there are good ones and bad ones. The good ones will use their enthusiasm for coaching and pass it on to the kids while trying to instruct them on basics. They may not know everything in baseball, but they are trying and work very hard with the kids because they love their job and their kids. Then there are the football/baseball coaches that call baseball "stand around" and see no benefit from it. I know of one in particular that would purposefully throw at his hitters during B.P. and get mad at them if they moved out of the way while he was thowing "gas" at them. (5A school by the way that has offseason baseball in the fall) He said he was "Tryin' to toughen them up!". If you want to see what these type of coaches really think, take a dip into The Old Coach website and go to the Texas High School Football message board. There is some serious baseball bashing going on there and funneldrill can attest to that. You cannot say anything to justify the greatness of baseball to those type of coaches.

High school baseball coaches are hancuffed and you've hit it on the nose ctiger. The ones who really are passionate about the game want to teach everything they know to the kids, but there are not enough hours in the day. Plus they are teachers too so the lesson plans also have to fit in there. On that same website I mentioned above there are high school baseball coaches who think that select ball is a bunch of poo. I almost jumped in there because I coach both, however, I will never promote one over the other. Main reason: High school coaches have to coach the players they are dealt and in some cases it's like trying to make chicken salad from chicken lips and feet.

What it comes down to is this (IMO): You are playing the game of baseball. It is you against the ball. Yes there is another person out there who is trying to throw it by you and make you look silly, but once it leaves his hand, it's you and the ball. Vice versa for the pitcher. Is the player prepared? Or is he not prepared because his coach has not gotten him there and he did not take enough pride in HIS game to get ready on his OWN?

I could go on and on, but I think I've rambled long enough. rap
Last edited by L.A.
i do both as well and i think there is good in each one

select-can give a player a chance for some exposure and get him around different coaches and players. This is a great opportunity to learn what others are doing.


hs-teaches you to play as a team and rely on your teammates. also it is very structured with rules and regulations that must be followed. teaches a little bit of discipline


both have their place it they work in union but, i think with the attitude screwball has, one is tearing down the other. And that other is someones livelyhood, the way some people make a living.
so many areas to respond to ctiger i don't know where to start. i don't expect you to know my son's work ethic. he does go early to practice and stay late, everyday! he does do hitting lessons with his select team once a week. and we do go work on long toss every weekend. whether you know (or believe) this is of no concern to me. but the lack of enthusiam (and knowledge of the game) of his JV coach has not helped him at all. Oops, sorry, not suppose to critize a coach.
those are good things and that was why i was asking. you are right it doesnt matter if i think you are working or not nor does it matter if your coaches think you are working or not.

If you are then it will show up on the field.

this is why I took offense to your statement "it is amazing what can happen in a few weeks in the hands of these coaches" How can his skills diminish (whos fault is that) certainly, you are not blaming the coach for that.You said you go to your select coaches once a week and he works extra during the week.

that is my point: some coaches are not qualified to be a freshman b team coach but that should not be any reason for your sons skills to diminish.. You are making excuses that it is the coaches fault. Dontmake excuses, just get out of the situation if you do not see a benifit. Your attitude about high school ball is contagious and your son knows what you think about your coach so he displays the same attitude. My suggestion is get through it and keep working and hopefully better days are coming. I can tell you this though, most high school coaches feel threatend by select ball and rightfully so. If a player is still in season and his dad makes a comment like "i cant wait for summer" this is very detrimental to the coaches team.
i do not mean to sound like i'm making excuses. i took responsibility for my son's development starting about T-Ball through a couple of years ago. He took responsibility himself a couple of years ago, now i just try to help as much as possible. Our varsity coach told me he is the hardest working kid he has. He expects others to work hard too.

I posted a couple of weeks ago in a topic titled "Coaches" that my advice to my son was to keep working hard, do everything that is asked of you and keep a good attitude. That has not changed. However, in order for us to do that, we have to look forward to the summer. When we will not have a football coach that choose JV baseball over girls s****r coaching us. We do not quit as you suggested.

However, if during the course of the season i see a change in the level of my son's play, i should have a right to comment on it and do whatever we need to do to deal with it.
quote:
I can tell you this though, most high school coaches feel threatend by select ball and rightfully so.

ctiger can you explain this more? I just don't see any reason why a High School coach would not like their kids playing select baseball. The kids they are getting because of select baseball are so much better now days than they were years ago it's unreal. Maybe im missing something but the season's run at different times and one doesn't take away from the other.

Thanks!
Positives of summer ball:
1. Playing good competition.
2. Seeing different pitchers, pitches, arm angles, etc.
3. Being put in game situations to think, react, etc.
4. Learning to adapt to new teammates, coaches, etc.
Negatives of summer ball:
1. Could give a kid a false sense of his abilities. No attendance zones, no requirements. Go pick a team you like and a coach you like- regardless of where you live.
2. So many games- fear and disgust of losing are diminished because there's probably several more games that week. No big deal.
3. Bunting, baserunning, hustling on and off the field, picking each other up on defense, etc. seem to be forgotten fundamentals.
4. A great amount of playing time can cause a kid to become complacent and misled as to what his strengths/weaknesses actually are.
5. The money and time invested might give a parent more reason to be disgruntled if the HS season does not go as planned.

*** None of this is meant to slam any HS coach or summer coach. A kid needs both to excel these days and the 2 seasons compliment each other. And I know many, top-notch summer coaches who are very sharp. My fear is... since kids can obtain exposure and scholarships from just summer ball and showing off their own skills...the HS season is not what it once was and every year is getting a bit worse. Fundamentals and team-oriented thinking are slipping and it's scary. My son is 1 year old. If he wants to play summer and HS ball, he will. Just thinking outloud a bit here.
I believe some of us have been down the path of getting through the sub-varsity seasons at the 5A level. If you are in a strong program, these years can be tough. The competition is weak, and you have to wait your turn to get to varsity.

I've heard the comments, can't wait until summer from others and as the Swami said it's scary. I've always encouraged my son regardless of the situation to get the most out of each season. Do your best to help the team win, and things will take care of themselves.

I have to keep reminding myself, this is a small window of time and enjoy it. You'll blink and the time will have passed.
yes that is a good question:

My thinking is this:

I think both can co-exist as I stated earlier, but i feel some coaches feel that kids come back from select ball and will not take coaching from their high school coach because some select guru has told him to do something totally different.

I coach select ball and high school ball (both of the programs in my opinion are 1st class),and I can tell you for a fact that some of these so called guru select coaches have bashed high school coaches on more that one occasion. This is what I am talking about.

Lets say kid A goes off and plays for one of these coaches that talk bad about the hs coach. Then lets say the hs team is struggling a bit or is having a down year which happens to the best programs in hs.

Lets also say that kid A goes and gets lessons from this select coach and he continues to question the hs coaches philosphy. What do you think kid A's attitude is going to be to his hs coach.

Now it doesnt bother me because we address this up front to our kids and if they dont want to do what our program asks them to do then they have a few choices.

But my statement was that some high school coaches feel threatened by select summer coaches.

this is one of many reasons i can see a hs coach having issues with the select coaches. In my opinion every one is trying to get kids to buy into different philosphies and it is difficult when a kid doesnt believe in his hs coach.

I have had many kids come back from a select summer with a more than desirable attitude. The kid feels he is better than his teammates, he wont sell out for them and he just overall thinks he is a better player than the others.
The truth be told he probably is a better player but he needs to make the other kids around him better. Some just cant change this attitude and it is detrimental to the team. I have seen many hs teams that were very talented with a bunch of select players that just cant over acheive as a team. Ive also seen them gel as ateam and win many games so nothing is absolute.
quote:
Originally posted by The Swami:
Negatives of summer ball:
1. Could give a kid a false sense of his abilities. No attendance zones, no requirements. Go pick a team you like and a coach you like- regardless of where you live.
...
3. Bunting, baserunning, hustling on and off the field, picking each other up on defense, etc. seem to be forgotten fundamentals.
4. A great amount of playing time can cause a kid to become complacent and misled as to what his strengths/weaknesses actually are.
...

My fear is... since kids can obtain exposure and scholarships from just summer ball and showing off their own skills...the HS season is not what it once was and every year is getting a bit worse. Fundamentals and team-oriented thinking are slipping and it's scary.


False sense of abilities? I would argue just the opposite. A player on a good select team will play very tough competition. He will find out pretty quickly how he stacks up in the "big pond". I can't think of a better way for a player and his parents to get an idea of where their player really stands.

And the strengths and weaknesses become evident when playing against the toughest competition (e.g., select). They may not be evident playing HS ball's weaker competition.

I find the fundamentals lacking at my son's HS. But not on the select teams with which he has played.

Let me give an example. The highly touted players at my son's HS have a habit of not sliding when sliding is called for. When stealing a base (for instance), they often go in standing up. They play such weak competition that they get away with this 99% of the time. The opposing catchers have weak arms & poor mechanics. The opposing pitches are slow to the plate and don't know how to hold runners. So there is no price to pay for not sliding. If any of these boys played good select ball, they would get put out in a heartbeat.

The same kids take short leads at first, so they don't have to dive back on a pick attempt but can come back standing up. For the aforementioned reasons, they can still steal successfully even with the short lead. Heaven help them if they try stealing against a good select team.

Playing against tougher competition requires using the fundamentals. And makes the lack thereof stand out quite well.

I do agree that the HS season is not what it once was.

Select has affected LL Inc. at the younger ages. And to some degree it is affecting HS ball for the same reasons. I think that one day we will see HS aged select ball in the spring. Maybe not in the next year or two, but eventually.

Select - at least the good select - offers several advantages. No booster clubs. No parents with a brother-in-law on the school board, working through the back channels. No big donors writing checks for Junior's playing time. Much tougher competition. If the player earns it, he gets it.

Please note, I am not condemning all HS ball. {Don't shoot, ctiger! Eek You're one of the good guys.} There are some well run programs. Unfortunately there are some poorly run programs. There are also good & poor select teams. But the player can switch from a poor select team. He is stuck with his HS for good or bad.

The competition issue is pretty structural, and goes back to limited recruiting boundaries vs. unlimited.

Am I looking forward to summer? To be honest, yes. I'm sick of watching my son's HS run rule every opponent. That is not good ball IMHO. But that is my son's particular situation.
Last edited by Texan

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