the NEW BREED

quote:

When someone complains about whiners aren't they themselves being a whiner?

I don't see it that way at all, PG. When it's a leader talking about what it takes to succeed, it's not whining; it's stating a fact.

And for the record, I'm not whining about your reply

jp24,

Fact or opinion? How do we determine who the real leaders are or if they really know how for a fact to help others succeed?

Every parent is responsible for being a leader, even the "whiners". I'm not sure, but I would guess that every human being has been guilty of whining. So maybe calling someone a whiner is the same as calling them a human being.

Come to think of it... I am whining!

LOL. You're not whining. But isn't the fact that the man is a D-1 coach with a very successful baseball program strong evidence that it's likely fact based on first-hand experience, rather than just an opinion that may or may not have merit? The man sees it firsthand.

I've read your posts with interest and attention over the past year or two ... with a 2016 about to be introduced to several of your events this summer ... so I guess I was just surprised at your reply. Maybe the nature of your relationship with players ... the fact that you see them for showcases but don't sweat and work with them day in and day out like coaches do over the course of a season ... gives you a different perspective?

Regardless, I appreciate your views and experience ... and the fact that you make the time to share them so often with those of us who have sons coming of age.

many years back I played for a no nonsense coach. He was tough and if need be was all over you, You knew if you did not perform well you would be told so and might be doing some bench time. during my coaching days I did what I had to do to motivate my players. Yes I even occassionally got in their face or did not write their name on the lineup card or pulled them from a game. I had no problem. I have to speculate on what I read and hear from some present coaches I might get a little if not a lot of static.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
I can guarantee you my youth and school baseball coaches had no idea who my parents were. That isn't the case today.

Same here. My parents never went to games, either.

"Did you win?"

"Yeah."

"Good. Do you have any homework?"

That was about it.

quote:

the fact that you see them for showcases but don't sweat and work with them day in and day out like coaches do over the course of a season ... gives you a different perspective?

Actually I've spent many years coaching... sweating and working with players. I've found that the more comfortable I can make a player, the better the player plays. I never believed in yelling at a player on the field. It's unprofessional and embarrassing a player will not usually get positive results.

However... When someome goes against what we teach and practice and how we want to conduct ourselves I would get directly in their face. There was no one who could play for us if they weren't tough.

That said, I have never seen an advantage in being impolite or rude. Never seen an advantage in forcing someone to do something. If they didn't want to do what we needed to do, they weren't going to cut it. This wasn't the Army, this is suppose to be something we want to do.

Good coaches will always try to figure out how they can get the most out of their players, just like they always have. They might go about things differently, they might not treat every player exactly the same because every player is different.

It's was that way for the old breed, it's still that way for the new breed, and it will still be that way for the next breed. Coaches need to adjust to the time we live in, just like everyone else. That is my opinion.

I'm not sure I agree with the 'old' vs 'new' breed philosophy. I think that no matter what the cream will rise to the top and the kids that really want to play this game and are willing to work at it are going to succeed.

I think the distractions that are out there are more prevalent for sure but that just makes it easier for the marginal and unmotivated to quit. We have some kids that play, and play well and I haven't seen any of the sitting on the rump texting that others have mentioned. Maybe it is because the coach wouldn't stand for it, maybe it is because there is a desire to succeed among these kids, maybe it is both.

Kids that really wanted to play worked hard and got better. Those that didn't fell off after time. It was that way when I was a kid and it seems that way now.

Wklink and PG Staff, you both did an excellent job expresssing your ideas about the players of the past, today, and in the future. Thanks. I have alot of faith in our future. In my experience working with our youth I have found that many kids do feel a sense of entitlement and are not self motivated. However, the cream does rise and I have had the good fortune to work with bright, ambitious students who have established plans to meet their goals. I am proud to know some tough, bright, hard working athletes that have excelled in track, baseball, basketball, and softball. I'm sure everyone on this board has many positive stories as well. Personally speaking, positive people who believe in me have been my best motivators. Next to my dad my coach was my hero. Sometimes he had to get in my face, but he always had confidence and faith in me and I knew it.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:

And it's not just baseball that I'm worried about.

Uh oh.

Actually, that sounds like good news, for you anyway..... Baseball is, and will be a meritocratic endeavor, which makes it great, imo. XBox playing wussies still will not get far, which is fine. Not sure that's news to anyone, though.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

the fact that you see them for showcases but don't sweat and work with them day in and day out like coaches do over the course of a season ... gives you a different perspective?

Actually I've spent many years coaching... sweating and working with players. I've found that the more comfortable I can make a player, the better the player plays. I never believed in yelling at a player on the field. It's unprofessional and embarrassing a player will not usually get positive results.

However... When someome goes against what we teach and practice and how we want to conduct ourselves I would get directly in their face. There was no one who could play for us if they weren't tough.

That said, I have never seen an advantage in being impolite or rude. Never seen an advantage in forcing someone to do something. If they didn't want to do what we needed to do, they weren't going to cut it. This wasn't the Army, this is suppose to be something we want to do.

Good coaches will always try to figure out how they can get the most out of their players, just like they always have. They might go about things differently, they might not treat every player exactly the same because every player is different.

It's was that way for the old breed, it's still that way for the new breed, and it will still be that way for the next breed. Coaches need to adjust to the time we live in, just like everyone else. That is my opinion.

Com'on PG...get a grip! You're spoiling all my fun! How can I possibly go on blaming the kids, and the parents and the culture if you are going to give us this BS about positive reinforcement and free will and choice and passion for the game. I mean seriously now, if I took your point of view I would be teaching kids to find a way to success regardless of the circumstances, of the the challenges, of the players attitudes around them that they face in the game or out. And what kind of training would that be for them as future coaches or citizens? Can do? Find a way? Adapt? Persevere? No excuses? No, PG, none of that for this guy. I tell you it's really hard out here. I ask yyou isn't it a heck of a lot easier and fun to run into those challenges bounce off them and then play the victim card and complain and whine? I'd don't know about you but it takes all the pressure of performance and success off me. That's what my players and parents do, any idea where they are getting that outlook?


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quote:

Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
I think you are way off base. The kids I see today work much harder with higher expectations in both academics and athletics. I am sure you walked 10 miles to school up hill - both ways. Give me a break.

I don't know what kids you see, but many of the ones I see are soft and have everything given to them. When I was a kid my parents made me ride a bike to HS, and it was over 5 miles away. I had to wake up much earlier, eat cereal, then off I went, RAIN OR SHINE.
I didn't like it, especially when I would get to school soaking wet while others kids were either driven or pulled up in their own cars. Still my conditioning and leg strength certainly benefited.

So when my son was invited to do extra workouts and drills during the summer at his HS, guess what I had him do?

I think the point of this thread(have not read all through it yet) is to say many kids are softer today in mind and spirit, and their parents enable them. Far too many kids look to be offended. If a teacher or coach said something negative to me I kept it to myself rather than complain to my parents. The reason is that I knew my parents would back up the teacher/coach, so why get in even more trouble. Today, kids run to their parents, and they in turn race to school to find out why poor little Johnny's feelings were hurt. If there is a problem "there must be a reason because it could not be my own little angels fault".

So while I certainly think some coaches cross the line both verbally and physically, most do a good job for low pay to try and motivate the kids to get off the couch and into shape. The best ones do it without vulgarity and negativity, but not everyone comes off an assembly line.

There will always be the kids who do what it takes to succeed. There will always be the kids who aren't willing to put in the effort to succeed because they don't want it badly enough or don't have the talent.

But in between these groups are some new classes. There's the entitled. There's the don't offended me or I'll contact someone over your head. There's those with parents who will go over or around the coach in an attempt to manipulate the situation. There are those mistaken that talent can be purchased. There are those who think success at a lower level ensures acceptance at the next level. These players aren't willing to just get on the field/court and earn it. The parents have a bloated view of their kid's ability.

From LL through college ball I only remember seeing or hearing one parent being a visible problem about their kid. A mother had a tantrum on the Babe Ruth all-star coach when her son was not selected. She did the same when he was cut from the high school prgram. The older brother was a stud. Today this scene plays out monthly, if not sometimes weekly. Maybe it's because my kids grew up in an affluent school district. Parents think they can buy situations or are big enough deals to influence coaches and the AD. Many kids are spoiled.

My parents would never intervene on my behalf in any sports. When I played LL, my first year I only played half the games (no mpt them) and got about ten plate appearances. My father's only reaction was get better. My mother's attitide was sports was exercise not academics. My father's attitude was sports are nothing but fun and exercise until high school.

I only intervened once with my kids. It was a mentally abusive preteen situation .

Kids don't raise themselves. I think it is only fair to examine how parents are raising their kids, before we blame the kids for the way they are turning out.

It takes a creative parent to "adjust" and "adapt" to the New Breed's world of fast moving technology based learning and living. You have more control than you think

There is an "AP" for almost everything these days - even for changing a tire I suppose, or how not to become a "wussie" with or without a "p".

But, there is no substitute for taking the time to teach and explain to your kids the common sense and practical, "know how to take care of yourself" rules of life and living - and don't forget manners

Signed,
The Middle Breed

You can't blame this generation of kids, its the generation of parents raising them... So get on yourselves... for creating the Wussies
Or if your older you can blame your self for raising this generation of parents who are raising wussies.
So see TR its your generations fault

When I was going through my residency program, our attending chewed my and my co-resident's butts one day for doing something stupid. We were both offended. The next day when we were avoiding him, he took us aside again and gave us the following explanation. "If I didn't care about you both deeply and what kind of doctors you'll be some day, I would have stayed quiet and let you continue to just be stupid. It would be alot easier for me and would certainly have been better for my blood pressure." It was an important lesson. Sometimes our "wussies" with a "p" need a little offending to learn and grow.

The New Breed is raised in a world where it seems w accountability is becoming a thing of the past and blaming somebody or something has become an art form. I just retired after 40 years of teaching. If i had a dollar for everytime I heard it is not my fault or something is not fair my retirement years would be a lot more comfortable.

I think that older people always complain about the newer generation being softer than before, but they are just adapting to change. (Can't you just hear a dad saying, "these kids today are soft. In my day we had to run from bears and mountain lions, now they just sit by the fire chasing away a couple of coyotes.") As technology increases most of us do less physical labor, but I believe mental requirements have increased. Kids today are smarter, and more socially conscious than we were. When they get older they start to realize that hard work matters, but they will be lazy and mostly useless just like we were at their age.

Vector,

The kids I see today are the ones who forgo a lunch period to take an extra AP class, when they screw up they are front page news (as opposed to having a cop deliver me to my parents 30 years ago), they listen to Little Wayne vs. Led Zeppelin, they are required to do hours upon hours of community service, they carry 20 pound backpacks with 3 hours of homework, they work on their game all year round, and they have to listen to people like you tell them how out of whack their sense of "entitlement" is. I think you probably expected a future where if you worked hard, you could be rewarded with a substantive job to raise a family. No such thing these days.

I think the point of this thread is severely misplaced in self-aggrandizement of prior generations. Sure, your parents made you ride a bike 5 miles, everyone was unaware of pedophiles. Frankly, it turns my stomach to hear this generation lambasted.


Originally posted by Vector:

quote:

Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
I think you are way off base. The kids I see today work much harder with higher expectations in both academics and athletics. I am sure you walked 10 miles to school up hill - both ways. Give me a break.

I don't know what kids you see, but many of the ones I see are soft and have everything given to them. When I was a kid my parents made me ride a bike to HS, and it was over 5 miles away. I had to wake up much earlier, eat cereal, then off I went, RAIN OR SHINE.
I didn't like it, especially when I would get to school soaking wet while others kids were either driven or pulled up in their own cars. Still my conditioning and leg strength certainly benefited.

So when my son was invited to do extra workouts and drills during the summer at his HS, guess what I had him do?

I think the point of this thread(have not read all through it yet) is to say many kids are softer today in mind and spirit, and their parents enable them. Far too many kids look to be offended. If a teacher or coach said something negative to me I kept it to myself rather than complain to my parents. The reason is that I knew my parents would back up the teacher/coach, so why get in even more trouble. Today, kids run to their parents, and they in turn race to school to find out why poor little Johnny's feelings were hurt. If there is a problem "there must be a reason because it could not be my own little angels fault".

So while I certainly think some coaches cross the line both verbally and physically, most do a good job for low pay to try and motivate the kids to get off the couch and into shape. The best ones do it without vulgarity and negativity, but not everyone comes off an assembly line.[/QUOTE]

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Light a tree on fire...win a championship. Simple.



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quote:

njbb said....You can't blame this generation of kids, its the generation of parents raising them... So get on yourselves... for creating the Wussies

njbb - I agree 100%. Kids learn what they live. I see more of an issue with the generation of parents than the kids. Kids need boundaries and direction. To often parents try to be their friends, and make decisions for them. Helicopter parenting has made our kids soft. Think.....the kids didn't come out of the womb soft....

quote:

Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
Vector,

The kids I see today are the ones who forgo a lunch period to take an extra AP class, when they screw up they are front page news (as opposed to having a cop deliver me to my parents 30 years ago), they listen to Little Wayne vs. Led Zeppelin, they are required to do hours upon hours of community service, they carry 20 pound backpacks with 3 hours of homework, they work on their game all year round, and they have to listen to people like you tell them how out of whack their sense of "entitlement" is. I think you probably expected a future where if you worked hard, you could be rewarded with a substantive job to raise a family. No such thing these days.

I think the point of this thread is severely misplaced in self-aggrandizement of prior generations. Sure, your parents made you ride a bike 5 miles, everyone was unaware of pedophiles. Frankly, it turns my stomach to hear this generation lambasted.

Clearly your perceptions are different than mine.

When you say kids are skipping lunch to take AP classes, I wonder what % of kids you are talking about? Are the lunch rooms really empty and food going to waste because so many kids are taking extra classes.
I know with my son that many of his friends were playing video games instead of getting out and doing things because I & he witnessed it on a regular basis. Heck even during the World Series many teammates were playing games instead of watching the pinnacle of baseball.

Many kids found ways around the community service hours when my son was working at a migrant camp creating a playground for the kids, pulling weeds, painting, etc.
Instead they were getting their parents to do the work in some cases which I could not believe my own eyes. Others got coaches to sign off on busy work just to get the hours when in reality the break time outnumbered any actual work hours. Of course that is not to say there are not kids out there who are driven, and/or are forced to do the right thing by their parents.
As to your mentioning of heavy books and tons of homework, I experienced that myself, so why didn't you?


I will say that working on their game year round did not exist when I was a kid assuming you mean specialized training for one sport. Instead many of us who were athletes worked playing different sports, and took the summers off for family vacations. So while some kids might be driven to play just one sport, I suspect the hand of meddling parents might have something to do with kids never ending training in a specialized sport.
I gave my son a choice as he got older, but when he was younger we were traveling as a family and made great family memories instead of doing the year round travel ball circuit. As a result we were behind the recruiting curve as I found out when coming here. Still I hope we gave him enough balance instead of being an automaton with a single minded purpose. So I believe parents, and not the kids are responsible in large part for the aforementioned.



As to entitlement, you had better believe kids today have that sense whether you like to hear it or not. But don't take my word for it, just read some of the books on the phenomenon.

Lastly, and I don't want you to take this as an attack on you, but think of what you did when responding back about how I rode my bike to school. In the same breath you reference pedophiles as a reason not to have kids doing what previous generations did. Clearly that is an example of modern day rationalization because pedophiles have been around forever, and the vast majority of kids riding their bikes or walking to school arrived safely.
Additionally, my Father was a LEO, so he was more aware than most about pedophiles. When I made my son ride his bike during the summer for the workouts at school I was certainly aware of them as well. Still I passed on to him what my parents did to me. If more values and lessons from our grandfathers era were passed on to todays kids, our society would be much better off.

quote:

... modern day rationalization because pedophiles have been around forever, and the vast majority of kids riding their bikes or walking to school arrived safely.

I question whether things are realy different safety wise in this age. I say the big difference is cable tv and the internet has every child abduction in the country on the screen within momments of it's discovery. Before cable and the internet news traveled slowly. A story from two days ago was not news anymore.

I wonder how many people outside Kansas knew about the "In Cold Blood" murders made famous by the Truman Capote book and movie. Today we would see the police live at the scene of the murder with the police chief interviewed along with horrified neighbors as soon as it's known.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
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"Ever been in a business office when the 'Network' goes down? It's complete zombie time. No one knows what to do. Mouths agape, confused and blank stares abound. Hysterical."

Zombie time? Really? Wow...that sounds like more fun than going to the Saturday matinee motion picture show at the Coliseum Theater! Mouths agape, confused, blank stares...abounding? Barrel o' monkeys! I gotta' see this!

Tell me luv baseball...what would be the best time to catch this show? Does this 'Network' thing you refer to tumble all the way down or just partially. Would I be able to give it a swift kick to get it to go on the fritz? And how soon do the blank stares abound after this thing takes a dive? I gotta' find myself one of those business offices.

This'll be good! I think there's one around here somewhere...





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Abacus...cool. Solves the Network Dilemma. Face front, feet on the floor...get to work before I box your ears. I want that management style to come back. It was so much easier to be able to threaten physical harm than to actually explain the reason for anything to the post Vietnam wussies of the '80s and beyond.

Ahhhh the good old days when the women were tough as nails!

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Not an abacus, but a comptometer...



"Holy cow Helen...how do you keep your ears from being boxed?"......"It's kinda' hard Beatrice, but what works mostly is I slather them with cream cheese. When the boss comes by looking for something to box all she sees are something that looks like lox!"

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quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
YES THEY ARE AMONGST US---they want all to feel good---no insults and no hurt feelings---what world do they live in?

Heh...


SENIOR CITIZENS TODAY LIVE IN THE PAST TOO MUCH!!!!!

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So brute66 is holed up in our bus, eh? We gotta' get the youngster outta' there. Our AARP® membership status may be in jeopardy! Let me think a bit.

Ok, here's the plan TR. Hold this pair of glitter scissors about like this. I'll have Dottie and Thelma sneak in through the chairlift in the back. When they flash their smiles and their Poligrip® fails like it always does, young brute66 will undoubtedly try to flee through the door up front. That's when you can cut him down to size TR...like the good ol' days. I'll be off to the side with my pencil and sketch pad capturing as much of the moment as possible. Whaddya' think gang? This plan? The cat's meow...or merely pajamas?



.

New breed?

...old breed...

Yawn! Every generation is convinced the successive one is “softer”. Nothing new, yet these threads keep recycling. ?????

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Recycling is NEW & EXCITING Marklaker!


When you've emptied the box just toss it into the bin labeled...








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Hey!
Now there's Revolution, but they don't know
What they're fighting
Let us close our eyes
Outside their lives go on much fa-a-aster!
Oh, we won't give in
We'll keep li-ving in the Past!



OK...maybe the music was better...

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:

SENIOR CITIZENS TODAY LIVE IN THE PAST TOO MUCH!!!!!

TRhit = Eric The Clown

Hey man, you're living in the past!

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Tell you what TR...I don't care about my AARP® membership. Leave 66 on the bus! Dottie! Thelma! Let's get a wiggle on! The Senior Early Bird special at Ryan's is over at 5:00! Climb in gang. Man I wish they still made Olds®...I'm wearing this one out!



And to keep you entertained brute66 I loaded this into the 8 TRACK for you. And don't eat all of the Nilla Wafers® and Fig Newtons®...we donate them to the Red Cross® blood bank every week. Gotta' keep 'em happy. You can have all of the macrame supplies...that's a craft that has flat out left our physical abilities in the dust!



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Woody ... I would have thought this is your old car.

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Too much maintenance!



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