The new compressed collegiate schedule

It's kind of ironic that just when college programs are needing lots more pitchers, the NCAA is wanting to downsize the roster size of scholarship players to 27.

I may be wrong, and as the parent of a shortstop I hope I am, but to me, I think this plays perfectly into the theory that with 8 additional walk-ons allowed, position players will increasingly end up with no scholarship money at all.

I also shudder to think of all the academic classes these players will be missing. It'll be interesting to see what this does to the average GPA of each team.

Interesting JB.
Clemson always began late february, so many times 5 games a week was normal all three years. With school ending first week in May, it allowed about 5 weeks of playing time with no classes, this included conference tourney and post season play. This is not going to be easy with schools that let out later or go by quarter semesters.
The thing that gets me, is that the NCAA wants all schools to play a tougher schedule, but many teams will have to play teams that are close to them with no choice due to compressed schedule.
As far as pitchers, coaches will have to be more deligent in developing pitching staff but weekend starters (especially during conference games) will be your best pitchers. I see a lot of tired arms by end of season. Or pitchers being pulled on specific pitch counts, pitching every 4th,5th day instead of once a week, with strict pitch counts.
I have noticed a trend in many schools having many two way players. Outfielders coming into pitch. Pitchers going to the outfield. I don't know if that is always a healthy idea, but I do think we will see it more and more.

It will be intersting to see how the APR plays into this. I predict back to the drawing table by mid spring, on all issues.

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Clemson always began late february, so many times 5 games a week was normal all three years

TPM, your comment piqued my interest and I checked the 2007 schedules for a number of D1's in Texas and Oklahoma. Here's the starting dates for their programs:

Feb. 2 -- Univ. of Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas State
Feb. 3 -- Rice
Feb. 6 -- Ut-Arlington, Univ. of Houston, Texas A&M
Feb. 8 -- Sam Houston State
Feb. 9 -- Baylor, Dallas Baptist
Feb. 13 -- UT-San Antonio

Looks like these schools will have to squeeze about 2-3 extra weeks of games into next year's compressed schedule.

Actually checking back his schedule began mid february this year, allowing to get more play in due to large ACC schedule which began mid march. There have been three more schools added since he came, but each school drops a school off of it's schedule each year so they will not have to begin so early.
The way I see it with the new start date, schools have less time to prepare for all important conference games, which for ACC begins mid march. That also means more schools wanting to play tougher schedules than their conference won't get in much of that either.

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Got son's DI schedule yesterday...

WOW!....No DH's...but lots of...Fri/Sat/Sun..Tues/Weds..Fri/Sat/Sun.

Here is my two cents....Mirrors other posts...

1. Less cross country play. Harder to seed post season.

2. Improved academics? What..a..joke. The academically challenged kids are simply going to get BURIED with this travel/game schedule...toughest job in the school may now be that of academic co-ordinator and trying to keep the players legal.

3. Right about strength of schedule...As a result of the compression...sons schedule went from a Boyd's world National #2 non conference degress of difficulty to something a great deal easier.

4. My Older 1B/DH just became a 1B/DH/RHP!!

5. Tom, Do I ask for a significant scholarship increase as a result?

6. My developing younger (JC LHP) is now good as gold...and will likley hold out...for a "full ride"!


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PS...

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I predict back to the drawing table by mid spring, on all issues.

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Obviously the schedule I saw was for "The Farm's" team.

I don't think its my place to say specifically who it includes, but their schedule will be quite a bit MORE difficult next season by my estimation. There is MORE inter-sectional play than recent past.

It should be fun for the fans...but for the student athlete, it is a big step backwords in my view.

Yes O44, both your sons should be gold.

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...but their schedule will be quite a bit MORE difficult next season by my estimation. There is MORE inter-sectional play than recent past.

Glad to hear that, I figured most teams would stay closer to home...not travel the distances...not mix it up cross country...as we know, though, staying west coast exo. does make for a tougher schedule...

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Originally posted by Infield08:
I also shudder to think of all the academic classes these players will be missing. It'll be interesting to see what this does to the average GPA of each team.

I don't see the big deal. The Ivy League schools play a 'condensed' season. First official practice is not allowed until Feb 1. First game of the season may not be scheduled until March 1. The baseball season ends in the last weekend of April. Championship weekend is first weekend in May. There are 40-45 games played (weather permitting) in this time frame. DHs on Sat & Sun. One mid-week game sometimes the rare 2 games in mid-week. My son does not miss an extraordinary number of classes. If all of our colleges placed proper emphasis on academics over baseball for college students (less than 1% will play pro ball) then this really shouldn't be an issue.

dbg-fan:
No fair asking common sense questions when dealing with decisions made by the NCAA.
(You'll get no bowl game next year for that infraction)

Hawaii schools always seem to have a tough road schedule, but I've counted 5 trips of at least 4 days off the island for the 'Bows next season, and six if you count the conference tourney. The longest trip is 11 days.
This would be a serious challenge for any student, much less a SA. The Bows will play 2 of last year's CWS teams on the road, and 5 regional teams overall on the non-conference schedule. Oh yeah, a mid-week game at Sunken Diamond is on the docket too.
Tough way to make a living.

My son played his first year of D3 ball last year. This summer he has played well enough in his wood bat league that an opportunity has presented itself to move to a good D1 program.

In talking with him, he concluded that playing a 43 game schedule was more than sufficient. He said that school was hard enough with baseball playing a 43 game schedule that began in mid-February. He said that school was tough enough and that playing a 55+ game schedule that started in March would make school that much tougher.

In the end he has decided to stay put. He feels that he can use the summer to be "challenged" and that his education is more important.

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Originally posted by spizzlepop:
Oh yeah, a mid-week game at Sunken Diamond is on the docket too.

Yeah, I saw that one too. Wanna join us for that one spizzle?

I just might have to do that.

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Originally posted by dbg_fan:

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Originally posted by Infield08:
I also shudder to think of all the academic classes these players will be missing. It'll be interesting to see what this does to the average GPA of each team.

I don't see the big deal. The Ivy League schools play a 'condensed' season. First official practice is not allowed until Feb 1. First game of the season may not be scheduled until March 1. The baseball season ends in the last weekend of April. Championship weekend is first weekend in May. There are 40-45 games played (weather permitting) in this time frame. DHs on Sat & Sun. One mid-week game sometimes the rare 2 games in mid-week. My son does not miss an extraordinary number of classes. If all of our colleges placed proper emphasis on academics over baseball for college students (less than 1% will play pro ball) then this really shouldn't be an issue.

Though you make valid points, most D1 schools play the max 56 games, then tourney championsips which can be another 3-5 games, plus tourney play which can be another 6 games. My son never missed a lot of classes either, with the above # of games.
The best scenerio is scheduling more games when classes let out, schools will have to spend a bit more to house and feed their team, but if they truley want them to succeed in the classroom and on the field they will make adjustments.

Going to college is for earning your degree but is you polled most of the players, they are going to play baseball.

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Going to college is for earning your degree but is you polled most of the players, they are going to play baseball.

A frequently overlooked point...........

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The best scenerio is scheduling more games when classes let out...

Not an option for many West Coast schools (UCLA, Stanford, Santa Clara, Oregon State, UC Irvine, etc...). They are on quarters and do not let out until around June 15. My midwestern alma mater is on quarters too.

The NCAA wants to improve academic performance?...this was a big step backwards for that. They too often speak out of both sides of their mouths. Under the previous system (through this past year), schools could offset the impact of classes into June by beginning their season in early February. Seems to me the schools were a little smarter about whats good for their own student athletes.

JB,
I realized that west coast schools are on quarter semesters but this would be solutions for other programs. I agree, schools do know how to find what works best for them, but someone came up with the "not fair" attitude about schools beginning early february. Do they think for ONE minute that programs are going to wait until february 1 to begin practice? Get real!

I agree, this is a step backward. It saddens me to think that out of all collegiate sports, baseball is getting a raw deal from the NCAA. My opinion, nothing wrong with schools beginning earlier than others, also my opinion that many other rules they have imposed look more like punishment.

justbaseball, I discussed this very topic with a coach at the Stanford Camp. I think he is a pretty reliable source having built a good DI program in New England and is now trying to do the same in a highly competitive DI conference.
When he coached in New England, his kids played the compressed schedule and combined it with significant early season travel to the South and West. His players also did well academically in a very challenging academic environment.
Sounds like it does take even more discipline and time management for the players to maintain the status of student athletes to succeed in both places. But if the coaches do their job of preaching and overseeing academics and the players listen and comply, it can and will work, but it will be quite an adjustment from what has been going on in the South and West.

If NCAA wants to improve academic perfomance they should reduce the number of games that teams play in the regular season.

It seems like 48 games instead of 60 games would make it easier for the players to get some studying
in during the season.

jack1234 - I agree with you.

infielddad - To be totally frank, I don't think the higher end academic schools are terribly concerned about this situation. From my limited conversations I think they see it as helpful to them...and the coach you're referring to was at a pretty good academic institution.

His new school is quite good too (my father attended and later taught there ), but this coach will get a little more of the mainstream student-athlete there too and we will see if he still feels the same way in a couple of years.

Actually I hope he does. That would prove my worries wrong and that would be a good thing. But as a parent, I don't like the new schedule. I don't like it at all. 5 games per week is nearly a pro schedule and I think its too much when school is supposed to be the more important thing in this equation.

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by jbb: but this coach will get a little more of the mainstream student-athlete there too and we will see if he still feels the same way in a couple of years.

I feel your pain, as it will be a BIG adjustment for progams in the SW, Cal, & of course Hawaii ..

a small adjustment for most S Eastern schools

and a welcome relief to northern & colder-weather schools whose pgms & players have been operating in the "compressed schedule" mode FOREVER & now will be joined by everyone else

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by jbb: I wonder if the overuse issue that sometimes comes up in college baseball will be even more prevalent..a good question to ask ..
"How do you plan to use pitchers under the new format?" Will Friday/Saturday starters come back for Tuesday/Wednesday relief far more often now?

good point, but a better Q might be -

"will your pitching coach be - "learning on the job with my son's health" re the new format ...

or - - will you hire a cold-weather pitching coach who already has yrs of experience & success with that new schedule format"?



ps - I wanted to be Frank, but you beat me to it

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this coach will get a little more of the mainstream student-athlete there too and we will see if he still feels the same way in a couple of years

The mainstream student-athlete is who I am concerned about -- and I would imagine there are a lot of them out there. I posted these comments on another thread quite a while back, but I think they fit in this thread too:

"My son and I recently heard the head coach of a Top 25 D1 program speak. He remarked that the average SAT of his players is about 1000 and that he has some players who scored 900 or 950 -- and this is at a school that is fairly highly regarded for its academics and is somewhat selective in the admissions process (13,000 applications for 1800 openings)."

The average SAT for students at this school is about 200 points higher, which puts these student-athletes at a real disadvantage when they're missing so many classes and yet are expected to keep up with everyone else.

Maybe my question is directed toward pitcher's parents, like Tigerpawmom -

Our son will be a frosh pitcher on a West Coast D1 this Fall. My impression was that if he had just pitched, the policy would be that he would not suit up for the travel squad to an upcoming road series and at home, he would chart pitches. I guess I was thinking that if he didn't travel he could then do something like "go to class." It's the everyday position player who is going to get rocked by this schedule, correct?

Conditioning is obviously the key, although I do understand that by the end of the season there will be tired arms. But isn't one way of looking at the condensed schedule is that it gives way more opportunities for young pitchers to show their stuff?

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by brod: It's the everyday position player who is going to get rocked by this schedule, correct?

hmmm, the implication is that warm weather students are not as capable (bright) as mid-westerners & northerners who have handled 5 game weeks for yrs

is it over-analysis, or keen insite?

Bee, what are you saying?

Just kidding up there

I think brod was just saying position players will travel to all games, yet some pitchers might stay and get to go to classes.
btw, I was not aware that northern schools played a compressed schedule already. Is that what is being implied here?

I can't see pitchers staying home when they've got other duties such as charting, BP, and conditioning. Not exactly a good recipe for team chemistry anyway.

Bee, I guess it's all over now for the western schools.

That unfair advantage is lost forever, and the power will undoubtedly shift Del Norte way. Can't ya just smell the winds of change?

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Originally posted by brod:
Maybe my question is directed toward pitcher's parents, like Tigerpawmom -

Our son will be a frosh pitcher on a West Coast D1 this Fall. My impression was that if he had just pitched, the policy would be that he would not suit up for the travel squad to an upcoming road series and at home, he would chart pitches. I guess I was thinking that if he didn't travel he could then do something like "go to class." It's the everyday position player who is going to get rocked by this schedule, correct?

Conditioning is obviously the key, although I do understand that by the end of the season there will be tired arms. But isn't one way of looking at the condensed schedule is that it gives way more opportunities for young pitchers to show their stuff?

quote:

Originally posted by brod:
Maybe my question is directed toward pitcher's parents, like Tigerpawmom -

Our son will be a frosh pitcher on a West Coast D1 this Fall. My impression was that if he had just pitched, the policy would be that he would not suit up for the travel squad to an upcoming road series and at home, he would chart pitches. I guess I was thinking that if he didn't travel he could then do something like "go to class." It's the everyday position player who is going to get rocked by this schedule, correct?

Conditioning is obviously the key, although I do understand that by the end of the season there will be tired arms. But isn't one way of looking at the condensed schedule is that it gives way more opportunities for young pitchers to show their stuff?

I do not know what they do at other schools. In three years he missed one game, he was sick and they sent him home to bed.

The only ones who may get a night off on a travel week night would be weekend starting pitchers, but I do beleive on son's team they all opted to go to every game. The more experienced pitchers not playing those games would chart pitches or have bull pen duty. It was very much a team effort and those guys felt it important to be there for their teammates.

As far as the comment about cutting back on games, that is the decretion of every program. However, if a D1 program wants to make a run for a conference championship or the NCAA tourney field, you ain't gonna make it with 40 something games.

I had a discussion with someone today regarding thoughts on the new uniformed starting date. It will be tough on everyone. The end result will most likely be those players who are taking very difficult majors will either, go an easier route, or give up baseball. Those students that play two sports will become non existant (not that there are too many left out there these days).



I do know that at many schools pitchers not needed do not have to travel week nights.

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The end result will most likely be those players who are taking very difficult majors will either, go an easier route, or give up baseball.

Exactly TPM...

At the same time the NCAA is all hot and bothered about academic performance...They change the rules to make academics more difficult.

I for one can certainly see the logic in this...

Here's another good one...

heard today that some coaches are denying transfers to unused, high academic bench players in order to keep their APR's up...

...smart move by the coaches but this amounts to descrimination against academic acheivers.

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by szlpp: Bee, I guess it's all over now for the western schools ... That unfair advantage is lost forever

that's exactly what the NCAA's intent was, and as evidenced by o44, they don't like it at all

Of course one of the main points of condensing the schedule was to try to level the playing field between northern and southern schools.

At Army, the answer has been to add several fall ball contests this year. The 56 game limit is over the entire academic year, therefore they can schedule some opponents in the fall, evaluate some incoming talent, and take some pressure off the condensed schedule but still get all their games in.

It wouldn't surprise me to see more programs go this route as they adapt to the schedule.

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Exactly.

While the NCAA quibbles and bickers myopically over West/East, North/South, Cold/Warm....

...it is academics and the players that lose.

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At Army, the answer has been to add several fall ball contests this year. The 56 game limit is over the entire academic year, therefore they can schedule some opponents in the fall, evaluate some incoming talent, and take some pressure off the condensed schedule but still get all their games in.

I wonder how you can do that when fall is very restricted by NCAA rules. Even their practices are limited.

Bobblehead - I believe I heard that practices in the Fall will no longer be limited...or much less limited than previously.

BTW, colleges used to play part of their schedules in the Fall...way back in the day.

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Bobblehead - I believe I heard that practices in the Fall will no longer be limited...or much less limited than previously.

Details anyone?

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Why do you have your shorts in a knot ?/

The August 9th NCAA meeting should explain it all or they will continue to discuss and the situation remains status quo for now

No shorts in a knot here.

Its what we do here TR...post an opinion or a question and then discuss. My opinion is I don't like it. You do?

The August 9 meeting isn't to discuss schedules...thats a done deal. My understanding is that is to discuss the new scholarship guidelines/limits (33% min., etc...).

O44 - I'll send you a pm...but I was told that about practices by one very reliable source.

some teams choose to play some fall games, those are subtracted from the 56 for the spring

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by o44: it is academics and the players that lose

again, northern players have played in the new format for years, but if it's too tough for the sunshine guys ...

well perhaps college sports is not the right path for them