The problem isn't the Little League World Series, it's that we watch it

I was watching last night the game with Asia and California. Did the LL World series move to 50/70?  

I will preference with I have not read the linked article, yet...

LL has a 50/70 division, but it never grew in popularity like they expected.  About 7 years ago they expected this to take over the 40/60 game and allow them to compete with travel ball.  This never happened but they division lives on.

A good friend of mine was umping the 50/70 games last year out in CA.  We were planning a trip to CA at the same time so we added a few extra days to go to the games and support him.  I will say LL did a great job at the games of making the event about the kids.  I got to know a lot of the players, coaches and umps, and every single one of them were great people.  In my years playing local LL and travel ball I have never seen a group of parents, players, coaches, umps, officials and others caring about the opponent as much as this group did.

Joe, I respectfully disagree that LL expected its 50-70 league to take over. Having been involved  at the local level with the beginning of 50-70, I don't think they had any idea what they were doing. 

There was a lot of pressure and concern about travel and Cal Ripken, both at 50-70 eating into LL's niche, and of course a lot of discussion about how the LLWS was getting nutty with oversize kids (the 2011 LLWS champs having 2 kids who ended up as 1st and 2nd round draft choices out of HS helped with that).

But while many leagues were clamoring for something to help keep kids from leaving for travel ball, others were wedded to tradition, and/or saying that they didn't have the ability to convert their fields to 50-70.  In the end, LL  punted. 

Good article.  This is to an excess.  Do we really need to televise all those games?  I am guilty of stopping and watching a few innings of the LLWS final for the feel good nature of it - but now maybe i should re-think it!

JCG posted:

Joe, I respectfully disagree that LL expected its 50-70 league to take over. Having been involved  at the local level with the beginning of 50-70, I don't think they had any idea what they were doing. 

There was a lot of pressure and concern about travel and Cal Ripken, both at 50-70 eating into LL's niche, and of course a lot of discussion about how the LLWS was getting nutty with oversize kids (the 2011 LLWS champs having 2 kids who ended up as 1st and 2nd round draft choices out of HS helped with that).

But while many leagues were clamoring for something to help keep kids from leaving for travel ball, others were wedded to tradition, and/or saying that they didn't have the ability to convert their fields to 50-70.  In the end, LL  punted. 

Well, this year they instituted new bats without the same pop (now similar to BBCOR) and next year they won't have the 13 year olds -- the age cut-off is changing from April 30th to Aug. 31st -- so the 46-60 field will make more sense with those two changes.

JCG posted:

Joe, I respectfully disagree that LL expected its 50-70 league to take over. Having been involved  at the local level with the beginning of 50-70, I don't think they had any idea what they were doing. 

There was a lot of pressure and concern about travel and Cal Ripken, both at 50-70 eating into LL's niche, and of course a lot of discussion about how the LLWS was getting nutty with oversize kids (the 2011 LLWS champs having 2 kids who ended up as 1st and 2nd round draft choices out of HS helped with that).

But while many leagues were clamoring for something to help keep kids from leaving for travel ball, others were wedded to tradition, and/or saying that they didn't have the ability to convert their fields to 50-70.  In the end, LL  punted. 

No problems with this.  My kid was aging out of LL when they added the new division.  At the time it appeared (at least in our area) they were pushing kids to choose the new division and it appeared they were favoring this over the majors division.  As LL is a national organization it could have just been the district in our area doing this.

The  every day LL games you don’t see on TV are not intended to be travel ball. It works well for the average kid to have fun playing ball and get some exercise.

Our LL had two majors field. Both were up against physical boundaries. The infield could be made 50/70. But the outfield fences couldn’t be moved back.

i can understand a regional sports network picking up their region on tv. Or an in state station broadcasting their state champion’s games. But national broadcasts of regional games is over the top. 

yea I agree...but I watch them. I actually enjoy them. I also watch NCAA softball all spring long, NCAA baseball, I will watch the legion WS coming shortly, I have been known to attend legion games at the state regional level even while my sons were playing the travel circuit instead of legion.

I am a baseball guy but I get tired of the MLB - I get tired of modern baseball the way it is played. I actually think the MLB has huge problem because if you start to loose guys like me you have a MAJOR problem.

Demographic - 50ish, have disposable income, every male member of my family for 3 generations have played, coached and traveled to play. Vacations were almost always taken in August because skipping a week of football is fine but we never missed a baseball weekend.

Still love the MLB stretch run and playoffs...October is awesome.

I'm with you, Old School.  Don't tell my wife, but I expect that when my kid's playing days are over I will be one of those guys who has attended a game at every pro or college venue within 100 miles of my home.  Actually, come to think of it, I already have, except for a few Jucos. But we're moving soon to an area that has a lot more MiLB baseball, so I'm looking forward to getting around my new turf.

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

Well it's 7 divisions so I guess it's only about 33 games per division.  All I know is that if we're cheating we better win, unless other teams are even better cheaters than us.

old_school posted:

yea I agree...but I watch them. I actually enjoy them. I also watch NCAA softball all spring long, NCAA baseball, I will watch the legion WS coming shortly, I have been known to attend legion games at the state regional level even while my sons were playing the travel circuit instead of legion.

I am a baseball guy but I get tired of the MLB - I get tired of modern baseball the way it is played. I actually think the MLB has huge problem because if you start to loose guys like me you have a MAJOR problem.

Demographic - 50ish, have disposable income, every male member of my family for 3 generations have played, coached and traveled to play. Vacations were almost always taken in August because skipping a week of football is fine but we never missed a baseball weekend.

Still love the MLB stretch run and playoffs...October is awesome.

 

Personally, I find the Spring Softball and Baseball CWS weeks the best stretch of sports there is.  It used to be March Madness, but they've over-hyped over the past years.  It's gotten to the point I actually believe they setup the brackets to try to conjur up upsets, etc.  But, conspiracy theories aside, I'm trusting Softball/Baseball CWS won't get there.

cabbagedad posted:

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

I don’t know on the ESPN programming. Corn Hole has a new division. Not sure it’s been picked up yet. 

https://www.facebook.com/17804...s/10209579589364820/

cabbagedad posted:

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

OMG I could not believe it when I was flipping channels and saw a cornhole broadcast.  I mean, poker is bad enough, but maybe you could learn something by watching it, but cornhole??!!

Go44dad posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

I don’t know on the ESPN programming. Corn Hole has a new division. Not sure it’s been picked up yet. 

https://www.facebook.com/17804...s/10209579589364820/

Hahaha... was guessing something more along the bikini variety but that was funny.

JCG posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

OMG I could not believe it when I was flipping channels and saw a cornhole broadcast.  I mean, poker is bad enough, but maybe you could learn something by watching it, but cornhole??!!

With all honesty, I will play/watch 100 times more cornhole in the coming weeks than I will watch the LL World Series.  Zero interest in the Little League organization which has made baseball unwatchable for me.  Cornhole is played everywhere and it gets very serious during the ACC football/tailgating season.   Professional cornhole on ESPN would be a dream come true....Johnsonville brats as your sponsor, mmmm! 

It took sometime but MLB has caught up to the LLWS game. For the past several years, mostly strikeouts and HRs. I'll watch while the State Team is still in it, or West Coast games if I'm up. It was six years ago, but I really appreciated this AB  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hesrUzhQ2Sk

My son is 12u going into 13u this coming fall.  A handful of his travel teammates are in one of the teams in the regional tournament.  I'm addressing this point: "They’re really for the adults, making them feel worthwhile as parents, allowing them to boast to co-workers at the water cooler Monday morning, allowing them to post team photos on Facebook with medals and braces glistening in the sunlight."

While watching the game last night, my son was stomping around the house angry and frustrated asking why we didn't find a way for him to play with that little league.  He was asking why we couldn't have put him in a private school in that district for the year or have stay with a foster family in that district.  I told him he's crazy to even think that's realistic or even feasible.  While I would have enjoyed seeing him on ESPN, it's not worth upending our family to do so.  I am just saying that what the author wrote that this is really for the adults is an unfair over-generalization.  A lot of the kids I know who is passionate about baseball want this experience more so than the parents.

Say what you want about LL and the LLWS and the rules and the field size, etc, etc, etc.....but if you've never been to the LLWS in person, as a baseball fan you owe it to yourself to make the trip to Williamsport.  You won't be disappointed.  We've been there twice in the past and my son and I are planning to go again next year as a vacation / present for him finishing up college in the Spring.  Really looking forward to it.