The problem isn't the Little League World Series, it's that we watch it

I was watching last night the game with Asia and California. Did the LL World series move to 50/70?  

I will preference with I have not read the linked article, yet...

LL has a 50/70 division, but it never grew in popularity like they expected.  About 7 years ago they expected this to take over the 40/60 game and allow them to compete with travel ball.  This never happened but they division lives on.

A good friend of mine was umping the 50/70 games last year out in CA.  We were planning a trip to CA at the same time so we added a few extra days to go to the games and support him.  I will say LL did a great job at the games of making the event about the kids.  I got to know a lot of the players, coaches and umps, and every single one of them were great people.  In my years playing local LL and travel ball I have never seen a group of parents, players, coaches, umps, officials and others caring about the opponent as much as this group did.

Joe, I respectfully disagree that LL expected its 50-70 league to take over. Having been involved  at the local level with the beginning of 50-70, I don't think they had any idea what they were doing. 

There was a lot of pressure and concern about travel and Cal Ripken, both at 50-70 eating into LL's niche, and of course a lot of discussion about how the LLWS was getting nutty with oversize kids (the 2011 LLWS champs having 2 kids who ended up as 1st and 2nd round draft choices out of HS helped with that).

But while many leagues were clamoring for something to help keep kids from leaving for travel ball, others were wedded to tradition, and/or saying that they didn't have the ability to convert their fields to 50-70.  In the end, LL  punted. 

Good article.  This is to an excess.  Do we really need to televise all those games?  I am guilty of stopping and watching a few innings of the LLWS final for the feel good nature of it - but now maybe i should re-think it!

JCG posted:

Joe, I respectfully disagree that LL expected its 50-70 league to take over. Having been involved  at the local level with the beginning of 50-70, I don't think they had any idea what they were doing. 

There was a lot of pressure and concern about travel and Cal Ripken, both at 50-70 eating into LL's niche, and of course a lot of discussion about how the LLWS was getting nutty with oversize kids (the 2011 LLWS champs having 2 kids who ended up as 1st and 2nd round draft choices out of HS helped with that).

But while many leagues were clamoring for something to help keep kids from leaving for travel ball, others were wedded to tradition, and/or saying that they didn't have the ability to convert their fields to 50-70.  In the end, LL  punted. 

Well, this year they instituted new bats without the same pop (now similar to BBCOR) and next year they won't have the 13 year olds -- the age cut-off is changing from April 30th to Aug. 31st -- so the 46-60 field will make more sense with those two changes.

JCG posted:

Joe, I respectfully disagree that LL expected its 50-70 league to take over. Having been involved  at the local level with the beginning of 50-70, I don't think they had any idea what they were doing. 

There was a lot of pressure and concern about travel and Cal Ripken, both at 50-70 eating into LL's niche, and of course a lot of discussion about how the LLWS was getting nutty with oversize kids (the 2011 LLWS champs having 2 kids who ended up as 1st and 2nd round draft choices out of HS helped with that).

But while many leagues were clamoring for something to help keep kids from leaving for travel ball, others were wedded to tradition, and/or saying that they didn't have the ability to convert their fields to 50-70.  In the end, LL  punted. 

No problems with this.  My kid was aging out of LL when they added the new division.  At the time it appeared (at least in our area) they were pushing kids to choose the new division and it appeared they were favoring this over the majors division.  As LL is a national organization it could have just been the district in our area doing this.

The  every day LL games you don’t see on TV are not intended to be travel ball. It works well for the average kid to have fun playing ball and get some exercise.

Our LL had two majors field. Both were up against physical boundaries. The infield could be made 50/70. But the outfield fences couldn’t be moved back.

i can understand a regional sports network picking up their region on tv. Or an in state station broadcasting their state champion’s games. But national broadcasts of regional games is over the top. 

yea I agree...but I watch them. I actually enjoy them. I also watch NCAA softball all spring long, NCAA baseball, I will watch the legion WS coming shortly, I have been known to attend legion games at the state regional level even while my sons were playing the travel circuit instead of legion.

I am a baseball guy but I get tired of the MLB - I get tired of modern baseball the way it is played. I actually think the MLB has huge problem because if you start to loose guys like me you have a MAJOR problem.

Demographic - 50ish, have disposable income, every male member of my family for 3 generations have played, coached and traveled to play. Vacations were almost always taken in August because skipping a week of football is fine but we never missed a baseball weekend.

Still love the MLB stretch run and playoffs...October is awesome.

I'm with you, Old School.  Don't tell my wife, but I expect that when my kid's playing days are over I will be one of those guys who has attended a game at every pro or college venue within 100 miles of my home.  Actually, come to think of it, I already have, except for a few Jucos. But we're moving soon to an area that has a lot more MiLB baseball, so I'm looking forward to getting around my new turf.

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

Well it's 7 divisions so I guess it's only about 33 games per division.  All I know is that if we're cheating we better win, unless other teams are even better cheaters than us.

old_school posted:

yea I agree...but I watch them. I actually enjoy them. I also watch NCAA softball all spring long, NCAA baseball, I will watch the legion WS coming shortly, I have been known to attend legion games at the state regional level even while my sons were playing the travel circuit instead of legion.

I am a baseball guy but I get tired of the MLB - I get tired of modern baseball the way it is played. I actually think the MLB has huge problem because if you start to loose guys like me you have a MAJOR problem.

Demographic - 50ish, have disposable income, every male member of my family for 3 generations have played, coached and traveled to play. Vacations were almost always taken in August because skipping a week of football is fine but we never missed a baseball weekend.

Still love the MLB stretch run and playoffs...October is awesome.

 

Personally, I find the Spring Softball and Baseball CWS weeks the best stretch of sports there is.  It used to be March Madness, but they've over-hyped over the past years.  It's gotten to the point I actually believe they setup the brackets to try to conjur up upsets, etc.  But, conspiracy theories aside, I'm trusting Softball/Baseball CWS won't get there.

cabbagedad posted:

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

I don’t know on the ESPN programming. Corn Hole has a new division. Not sure it’s been picked up yet. 

https://www.facebook.com/17804...s/10209579589364820/

cabbagedad posted:

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

OMG I could not believe it when I was flipping channels and saw a cornhole broadcast.  I mean, poker is bad enough, but maybe you could learn something by watching it, but cornhole??!!

Go44dad posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

I don’t know on the ESPN programming. Corn Hole has a new division. Not sure it’s been picked up yet. 

https://www.facebook.com/17804...s/10209579589364820/

Hahaha... was guessing something more along the bikini variety but that was funny.

JCG posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Good article.  I disagree somewhat only because I personally choose to see the good and, generally, there is a heck of a lot of good with LL baseball, including the dream of youngsters to make it to the LL World Series and the event that it is.  

If wrongdoers are discovered, kick 'em out and move forward.  I think LL takes reasonable measures and I think the realignment of the age cutoff is a good one.  There are always realistic limitations as to how much an organization like this can police things.  The hope is that those in charge of local leagues will have integrity and police themselves.

It's still a heck of a lot better option to watch on ESPN than cornhole, dodgeball and video games...  IMO.  Looking forward to watching the little guys play baseball and see how close they can come to Williamsport.

OMG I could not believe it when I was flipping channels and saw a cornhole broadcast.  I mean, poker is bad enough, but maybe you could learn something by watching it, but cornhole??!!

With all honesty, I will play/watch 100 times more cornhole in the coming weeks than I will watch the LL World Series.  Zero interest in the Little League organization which has made baseball unwatchable for me.  Cornhole is played everywhere and it gets very serious during the ACC football/tailgating season.   Professional cornhole on ESPN would be a dream come true....Johnsonville brats as your sponsor, mmmm! 

It took sometime but MLB has caught up to the LLWS game. For the past several years, mostly strikeouts and HRs. I'll watch while the State Team is still in it, or West Coast games if I'm up. It was six years ago, but I really appreciated this AB  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hesrUzhQ2Sk

My son is 12u going into 13u this coming fall.  A handful of his travel teammates are in one of the teams in the regional tournament.  I'm addressing this point: "They’re really for the adults, making them feel worthwhile as parents, allowing them to boast to co-workers at the water cooler Monday morning, allowing them to post team photos on Facebook with medals and braces glistening in the sunlight."

While watching the game last night, my son was stomping around the house angry and frustrated asking why we didn't find a way for him to play with that little league.  He was asking why we couldn't have put him in a private school in that district for the year or have stay with a foster family in that district.  I told him he's crazy to even think that's realistic or even feasible.  While I would have enjoyed seeing him on ESPN, it's not worth upending our family to do so.  I am just saying that what the author wrote that this is really for the adults is an unfair over-generalization.  A lot of the kids I know who is passionate about baseball want this experience more so than the parents.

Say what you want about LL and the LLWS and the rules and the field size, etc, etc, etc.....but if you've never been to the LLWS in person, as a baseball fan you owe it to yourself to make the trip to Williamsport.  You won't be disappointed.  We've been there twice in the past and my son and I are planning to go again next year as a vacation / present for him finishing up college in the Spring.  Really looking forward to it.

2019Dad posted:

Well, this year they instituted new bats without the same pop (now similar to BBCOR) and next year they won't have the 13 year olds -- the age cut-off is changing from April 30th to Aug. 31st -- so the 46-60 field will make more sense with those two changes.

Is it me, or does it seem like they've been *trying* to get rid of 13 YOs for like 3-4 years now? What's the deal (but maybe it is just me)...

fenwaysouth posted:

...  Professional cornhole on ESPN would be a dream come true....Johnsonville brats as your sponsor, mmmm! 

In case you really aren't aware, Fenway...

http://www.espn.com/watch/play...=3399369&lang=es

Florida State Fan posted:

I was watching last night the game with Asia and California. Did the LL World series move to 50/70?  

That was the Intermediate World Series - 13 year olds.  They play on a 50/70 diamond.

cabbagedad posted:

fenwaysouth posted:

...  Professional cornhole on ESPN would be a dream come true....Johnsonville brats as your sponsor, mmmm! 

In case you really aren't aware, Fenway...

http://www.espn.com/watch/play...=3399369&lang=es

 

To clarify....I meant for me!

I don't enjoy the Little League World Series anymore.  Never really felt strongly compelled to watch it, but did get pulled in occasionally when my kid was into watching it.

I find the LLWS to be brutal objectification of kids, for extreme profit, and ESPN is just over the top bad.  The Baseball isn't even "real Baseball" to me, either... Small fields, no lead offs etc.  ESPN cashing in on nostalgia is not appealing to me, in the slightest.

My son's LL team made it to the semis of a regional a few years back.  It was televised.  It was very exciting and fun for the kids and families.  LL does a good job dealing directly with the kids - the volunteers that are working with the kids genuinely want it to be a fun experience for them.

I met a parent from a team that had just been eliminated who was telling me about the complaint her son's team manager had filed with LL against another team over kids with forged residency and age documentation.  She said they had proof - they had paid a substantial amount of money to a PI.  I thought she (and whomever hired and paid the PI) was crazy, but I did notice that when the team at issue won and went to the LLWS, a few of the kids were no longer on the roster.  Who knows what really happened?    

A lot of the LL players are on travel teams, too.  Mine was.  The travel schedule ended before LL tourneys started, so it wasn't an issue.  There was also a team at regionals made up entirely of a travel team that had sought a LL charter that year specifically trying to get to the LLWS.  They got the charter, held tryouts, did the minimum number of games, picked the all stars, won their state tourney....  Entirely legal under LL rules because there wasn't an active charter already in that area.  Those kids and parents had just as much fun as everyone else did at the regional.  They were the runners-up, if I recall correctly.  Nice group.    

I used to watch it regularly when my son was at or slightly past LLWS age. Lost interest.

To me, in the end, the Williamsport competitors are dominated by those teams fortunate enough to have more than a few freakishly big/strong players who also pitch and hit 275' line drives. That is, hit puberty early. I think this has been done somewhere: a chart of average height of player on teams that win a district vs. state, vs. regional, vs. championship in Williamsport.

I think getting rid of 13 YOs will help, if they'd ever actually do it...

I'm with getting rid of 13yo's. 12yo's shouldn't have to face 80mph fastballs from 46ft.  

Florida State Fan posted:

I was watching last night the game with Asia and California. Did the LL World series move to 50/70?  

That's the intermediate division. A step above what is played in Williamsport.

First I will say that the same thing is wrong with the LLWS as travel baseball.  Having kids who can be as much as a year older than other kids, at the age of 12 or 13, is just not right.  Kids can grow as much as a foot and gain 50 lbs in that time span.  But more importantly, some have developed muscles and some haven't.  Eliminating anyone who is older the 12 as of the end of LL season would fix the problem, but the games would probably be very boring so LL is never going to do that.  We watch for the side show. 

I remember watching the LLWS when I was 12 or 13 and thinking that these teams weren't very good (except maybe Taiwan).  Sure they had one or two really big kids who if they pitch once a week will dominate other teams.  But overall, back then I was unimpressed.  I am ashamed to say I watched to reinforce my belief that the LL WS was a joke.  

What we maybe fail to realize, I think, is that they are not watched for being good at baseball. They are watched for being a side show. For being something that most people think is kind of a joke. Where one or two big players can dominate, win games and become heroes for a summer and then crawl back into the world of competitive baseball where they aren't standouts because the competition is just better and they can't do things that are absent form their game like hit good curve balls, run the bases, or play OF because the fence  is 400 feet rather than 200 feet.     

I am still ashamed to say I watch to reinforce my belief that the LLWS is a joke, and I think many other people do as well.  

catchmeifucan posted:

First I will say that the same thing is wrong with the LLWS as travel baseball.  Having kids who can be as much as a year older than other kids, at the age of 12 or 13, is just not right.  Kids can grow as much as a foot and gain 50 lbs in that time span.  But more importantly, some have developed muscles and some haven't.  Eliminating anyone who is older the 12 as of the end of LL season would fix the problem, but the games would probably be very boring so LL is never going to do that.  We watch for the side show. 

I remember watching the LLWS when I was 12 or 13 and thinking that these teams weren't very good (except maybe Taiwan).  Sure they had one or two really big kids who if they pitch once a week will dominate other teams.  But overall, back then I was unimpressed.  I am ashamed to say I watched to reinforce my belief that the LL WS was a joke.  

 

What we maybe fail to realize, I think, is that they are not watched for being good at baseball. They are watched for being a side show. For being something that most people think is kind of a joke. Where one or two big players can dominate, win games and become heroes for a summer and then crawl back into the world of competitive baseball where they aren't standouts because the competition is just better and they can't do things that are absent form their game like hit good curve balls, run the bases, or play OF because the fence  is 400 feet rather than 200 feet.     

I am still ashamed to say I watch to reinforce my belief that the LLWS is a joke, and I think many other people do as well.  

LL didn’t have 13yos until 2006 and the games were exciting. They’re returning to no 13yos next year. The cutoff date returns to 7/31. No one will be thirteen during the season. Some will turn thirteen by the LLWS. But no one will be thirteen 13yo 3.5 months at the LLWS anymore.

LL is kids playing baseball. There’s nothing wrong with that. The LLWS has always been a piece of Americana. There was a time where every kid played baseball.

What draws the channel surfing  casual baseball fan is the regionalism of the LLWS. A person can be drawn to rooting for a region. When a casual fan channel surfs past a travel game between the Bombers and the Aces he can’t relate.

Most of the stars in the LLWS are also travel standouts. The team we lost to in our state that went on to the LLWS when my son was that age had nine of eleven players go on to college baseball. Three played D1. One led a P5 in hitting one season. When they were all seniors in high school they won the large high school state championship. 

Danny Almonte

RJM posted:

catchmeifucan posted:

First I will say that the same thing is wrong with the LLWS as travel baseball.  Having kids who can be as much as a year older than other kids, at the age of 12 or 13, is just not right.  Kids can grow as much as a foot and gain 50 lbs in that time span.  But more importantly, some have developed muscles and some haven't.  Eliminating anyone who is older the 12 as of the end of LL season would fix the problem, but the games would probably be very boring so LL is never going to do that.  We watch for the side show. 

I remember watching the LLWS when I was 12 or 13 and thinking that these teams weren't very good (except maybe Taiwan).  Sure they had one or two really big kids who if they pitch once a week will dominate other teams.  But overall, back then I was unimpressed.  I am ashamed to say I watched to reinforce my belief that the LL WS was a joke.  

 

What we maybe fail to realize, I think, is that they are not watched for being good at baseball. They are watched for being a side show. For being something that most people think is kind of a joke. Where one or two big players can dominate, win games and become heroes for a summer and then crawl back into the world of competitive baseball where they aren't standouts because the competition is just better and they can't do things that are absent form their game like hit good curve balls, run the bases, or play OF because the fence  is 400 feet rather than 200 feet.     

I am still ashamed to say I watch to reinforce my belief that the LLWS is a joke, and I think many other people do as well.  

LL didn’t have 13yos until 2006 and the games were exciting. They’re returning to no 13yos next year. The cutoff date returns to 7/31. No one will be thirteen during the season. Some will turn thirteen by the LLWS. But no one will be thirteen 13yo 3.5 months at the LLWS anymore.

LL is kids playing baseball. There’s nothing wrong with that. The LLWS has always been a piece of Americana. There was a time where every kid played baseball.

What draws the channel surfing  asual baseball fan is the regionalism of the LLWS. A person can be drawn to rooting for a region. When a casual fan channel surfs past a travel game between the Bombers and the Aces he can’t relate.

Most of the stars in the LLWS are also travel standouts. The team we lost to in our state that went on to the LLWS when my son was that age had nine of eleven players go on to college baseball. Three played D1. One led a P5 in hitting one season. When they were all seniors in high school they won the large high school state championship. 

Shoveit4Ks dropped the bombshell, Danny Almonte. He's a symptom of the problem: parents. I know I have read that there is a Little League out in California (Eastlake) who filed a complaint about a neighboring league (Park View) regarding cheating the boundary rules of LL. Gee, don't both of these leagues have a history of sending teams deep into the LL tournament playoffs? Sounds like both leagues are doing some nefarious things to be that competitive year after year, because it seems in my son's league that talent kind of came in waves, it wasn't so consistent.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/ne...Nasty-488437641.html

Now we have leagues hiring private investigators to see where players live and what schools they attend. Why? Is it really that important? It seems to be...to the parents. But when presented the evidence, LL turned a blind eye apparently, and neighboring LL leagues are feuding. It's all gotten out of hand, mostly because of the television exposure...and the parents.

In a nutshell, it's just not pure any longer. Oh, and the baseball is probably about as good as it was 10-20 years ago. We just get more critical of it as our kids age and improve and that is what we become used to. I watched Rhode Island (I think) stage a 6-run come from behind win in the bottom of the 6th against New Hampshire last week, that was entertaining and heartbreaking at the same time. The NH pitchers just wilted under pressure. Perhaps they should not have to face that kind of pressure at that age? Or maybe in the view of some it's time for them to pull on their big boy pants and man up...

RJM posted:

catchmeifucan posted:

First I will say that the same thing is wrong with the LLWS as travel baseball.  Having kids who can be as much as a year older than other kids, at the age of 12 or 13, is just not right.  Kids can grow as much as a foot and gain 50 lbs in that time span.  But more importantly, some have developed muscles and some haven't.  Eliminating anyone who is older the 12 as of the end of LL season would fix the problem, but the games would probably be very boring so LL is never going to do that.  We watch for the side show. 

I remember watching the LLWS when I was 12 or 13 and thinking that these teams weren't very good (except maybe Taiwan).  Sure they had one or two really big kids who if they pitch once a week will dominate other teams.  But overall, back then I was unimpressed.  I am ashamed to say I watched to reinforce my belief that the LL WS was a joke.  

 

What we maybe fail to realize, I think, is that they are not watched for being good at baseball. They are watched for being a side show. For being something that most people think is kind of a joke. Where one or two big players can dominate, win games and become heroes for a summer and then crawl back into the world of competitive baseball where they aren't standouts because the competition is just better and they can't do things that are absent form their game like hit good curve balls, run the bases, or play OF because the fence  is 400 feet rather than 200 feet.     

I am still ashamed to say I watch to reinforce my belief that the LLWS is a joke, and I think many other people do as well.  

LL didn’t have 13yos until 2006 and the games were exciting. They’re returning to no 13yos next year. The cutoff date returns to 7/31. No one will be thirteen during the season. Some will turn thirteen by the LLWS. But no one will be thirteen 13yo 3.5 months at the LLWS anymore.

LL is kids playing baseball. There’s nothing wrong with that. The LLWS has always been a piece of Americana. There was a time where every kid played baseball.

What draws the channel surfing  asual baseball fan is the regionalism of the LLWS. A person can be drawn to rooting for a region. When a casual fan channel surfs past a travel game between the Bombers and the Aces he can’t relate.

Most of the stars in the LLWS are also travel standouts. The team we lost to in our state that went on to the LLWS when my son was that age had nine of eleven players go on to college baseball. Three played D1. One led a P5 in hitting one season. When they were all seniors in high school they won the large high school state championship. 

The attitude towards LL baseball varies from region to region, IMO.  What RJM states is the case in New England may not be true in another part of the country.  His comments certainly do not apply to North Texas.  LL is held in very low esteem here and the better players here have no interest in LL. The best 12 & 13 year olds in DFW have been playing competitive travel ball for a couple of years already. LL is a big step backwards for these kids and they want nothing to do with it. The Texas teams that reach the LLWS have one or two players that play for good travel ball teams - but usually no more than that. Most of the players on the Texas teams are not good enough to play for one of the better travel teams in their area.  That doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with these kids playing baseball - and it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with any of them getting the LLWS experience.  But (with a rare exception) the Texas players are not even close to being the better players in their age groups - and to see how ESPN glorifies all these (mostly) marginally talented kids is a total joke and is absolutely nauseating.  On a TV broadcast any error made by a player on a routine play is described by the talking head as "a really tough play" and I can hear the pain in Keith Moreland's voice (on regional broadcasts) as he tries to say something positive about ugly swings at the plate.  So lets call it what it is - cheap entertainment that isn't good baseball.  I agree with catchmeifyoucan. 

catchmeifucan posted:

First I will say that the same thing is wrong with the LLWS as travel baseball.  Having kids who can be as much as a year older than other kids, at the age of 12 or 13, is just not right.  Kids can grow as much as a foot and gain 50 lbs in that time span.  But more importantly, some have developed muscles and some haven't.  Eliminating anyone who is older the 12 as of the end of LL season would fix the problem, but the games would probably be very boring so LL is never going to do that.  We watch for the side show. 

I remember watching the LLWS when I was 12 or 13 and thinking that these teams weren't very good (except maybe Taiwan).  Sure they had one or two really big kids who if they pitch once a week will dominate other teams.  But overall, back then I was unimpressed.  I am ashamed to say I watched to reinforce my belief that the LL WS was a joke.  

 

What we maybe fail to realize, I think, is that they are not watched for being good at baseball. They are watched for being a side show. For being something that most people think is kind of a joke. Where one or two big players can dominate, win games and become heroes for a summer and then crawl back into the world of competitive baseball where they aren't standouts because the competition is just better and they can't do things that are absent form their game like hit good curve balls, run the bases, or play OF because the fence  is 400 feet rather than 200 feet.     

I am still ashamed to say I watch to reinforce my belief that the LLWS is a joke, and I think many other people do as well.  

I watched a regional game last weekend and thought the caliber of play for kids of that age seemed pretty good.  A couple of nice defensive plays and decent pitching.  Didn't seem to be "joke" territory to me -- although I am only a casual observer and my son is now almost 18 (so maybe I've forgotten what the level of play is for 12-13).  The rules and size of the field seem a bit silly - but again I have no knowledge of LLWS history/rules/etc. -- I just watch a few innings every year lol.

I believe it is still an attempt at a pure representation of talent in a local city.  The problem is the guys who have intentionally formed a team to get to Williamsport by manipulating the process. They are in an area that does not have LL so they form a league and restrict who can play.  They play the minimum games and win.  LL is a recreation league.  My problem also is when they talk about these being the best kids in the nation.  The best teams in the nation would destroy these teams and hit dingers all day long out of those parks.  Plus they would be astounded by the speed the best pitchers in the nation are throwing.  As long as we understand that it is a great opportunity for recreational players it is good.  But it has been blown out of proportion. 

Gerrymandering

PitchingFan posted:

I believe it is still an attempt at a pure representation of talent in a local city.  The problem is the guys who have intentionally formed a team to get to Williamsport by manipulating the process. They are in an area that does not have LL so they form a league and restrict who can play.  They play the minimum games and win.  LL is a recreation league.  My problem also is when they talk about these being the best kids in the nation.  The best teams in the nation would destroy these teams and hit dingers all day long out of those parks.  Plus they would be astounded by the speed the best pitchers in the nation are throwing.  As long as we understand that it is a great opportunity for recreational players it is good.  But it has been blown out of proportion. 

You can’t compare a team of players restricted to a specific area and a travel team that can fly players in from other states. 

Where a kid plays as a preteen is not going to determine his baseball future. Where we lived in the Mid Atlantic area thirteen years later the talented 12yos are still playing LL and travel. In New England, while its acknowledged travel is better ball LL all stats is still more important. 

When my son was twelve he had more walks than at bats during the regular season. Coaches/friends joked before the season they weren’t going to pitch to him and followed through on it. The cutoff date changed as he was turning thirteen. With his late spring birthday he could have been a baseball twelve again. He passed. Had he not I would have encouraged him to pass. 

What really lowered the quality of LL play is pitch counts. A lot of kids who can’t pitch are now pitching. But as preteens, who cares. And it protects the kid’s arms who can pitch.

Most LL’s play it clean. It’s the handful of dirty leagues who make news and leave an impression on the public.

When my son was playing LL teams had to get to the regional championship to be on ESPN. I’m sure it was supposed to be the thrill of victory and agony of defeat. Winner goes to the LLWS. Loser goes home. I’m not sure 12yos need this. But the LL kids I know who played in ESPN thought it was cool win or lose.

I moved to New England when my son (youngest) headed for college. NESN was already broadcasting the New England regional games. 

With all the demand for sports content now (FS1, FS2, ESPN+, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter) it was inevitable all LL regional level games would end up on TV. Next will be state championships.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Gerrymandering

It happens in high school sports too. A kid goes to live with his uncle on the other side of the district street boundary. Dad rents and apartment in the district and the kid doesn’t get caught. 

Our rival high school participated in a “save the inner city kid” program. They didn’t seem to be saving many chess kings and debate masters. They sure saved a lot of future D1 athletes.

that Taney team from Philly a few years ago, that was garbage from the get go and everyone knew. Add a talented girl to story and a bunch of minority kids and you can do anything you please.

Full disclosure she is a class act and the team was from everything anyone has heard is a real good bunch of kids...but was still a loophole team from a dormant charter.