Doug this is especially for you since things are slow right now. Please study it before next spring, 
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Kermit,
Please note the balls marked in brown are NOT strikes
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Please note the balls marked in brown are NOT strikes
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Now Doug that is a good response. However, some games I've done this fall I need the brown balls so not to be on the field for 4 hours.
I dunno, a couple of those don't look too bad...
However, if any portion of the ball passes through even the edge of the zone, it is a strike. And the zone is three dimensional.
{You can tell who is a pitcher's dad and who is a hitter's dad, can't you?}
However, if any portion of the ball passes through even the edge of the zone, it is a strike. And the zone is three dimensional.
{You can tell who is a pitcher's dad and who is a hitter's dad, can't you?}
Now hold on there.....
I have been told that as long as the ump is consistent, those brown dots (and even some further to the right) are strikes.
I have been told that as long as the ump is consistent, those brown dots (and even some further to the right) are strikes.
Well, if you want to get down to it, anything the blue calls a strike is a strike. 
Doug's reply is genius....
quote:Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Doug is a genius....
Fixed it for you
quote:Originally posted by Dad0406:
Now hold on there.....
I have been told that as long as the ump is consistent, those brown dots (and even some further to the right) are strikes.
The JPEG was too small to replicate what we saw at Grapevine last spring....couldn't get the balls that far outside.
If the umpires called the strike zone as defined in the rulebook there would never be any scoring.
Can you imagine a major league pitcher with the strike zone as shown above?! The batters would not have a chance.
Thank goodness umpires call the "zone" like they do instead of what is in the book.
Can you imagine a major league pitcher with the strike zone as shown above?! The batters would not have a chance.
Thank goodness umpires call the "zone" like they do instead of what is in the book.
I'm not sure about that. The top of the zone used to be considerably higher and they still managed to score runs.
quote:Thank goodness umpires call the "zone" like they do instead of what is in the book.
Doug did you see this from Crawdad. Spoken like a true pitchers dad,
See Doug, I do a excellent job not calling the defined zone. Thanks for the support crawdad.
Zone is too generous in youth baseball and much less pitcher friendly in pro ball.
If called like the book says, there maybe less homers but more balls put in play.
“See more offence post”.
Umpires should call the game from the dugout or the stands, coaches and parents think the view is better from there anyway.
If called like the book says, there maybe less homers but more balls put in play.
“See more offence post”.
Umpires should call the game from the dugout or the stands, coaches and parents think the view is better from there anyway.
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
I'm not sure about that. The top of the zone used to be considerably higher and they still managed to score runs.
It was also in the rule book that the batter got to define his own zone at each at bat. If the pitcher could not meet the batters criteria the pitch was a called "ball". In other words if the batter preferred his pitches at the "belt" then it was up to the pitcher to deliver them there.
Should we go back to that too?
I somehow think that if Roger Clemens was given a strike chest high then that would pretty much spell the end for any chance the batter might have at to hit off him. I have a feeling that a 95 mph tailing fastball just under the armpits is not an easy thing to hit.
I like how the zone has evolved just fine. There seems to be a pretty good balance between the pitchers and hitters if you ask me. We've alreay brought in the fences (just look at Yankee Stadium - for those of you who have never been there when you walk through the monuments in the OF that used to be the ACTUAL playing field years ago!).
Again, as a pitcher OR a batter all you can ever ask for is consistency.
Crawdad i agree with you. Just think if that pitcher from the Tigers, don't recall his name the other night that was throwing a 106 MPH fastball. You give him the chest its over.
Crawdad, you assume that Clemens could hit that spot at will. And that just doesn't happen. Watch how many times the pitcher misses. The catcher sets up one place and the ball goes another.
I would like to see it called by the book. It worked just fine that way for years. But then I'm a pitcher's dad.
And the midpoint is not "just under the armpits".
I would like to see it called by the book. It worked just fine that way for years. But then I'm a pitcher's dad.
And the midpoint is not "just under the armpits".
i have to agree with SWAC, that you want to call the outside corner sometimes, but as long as it is consistent. As a pitcher/hitter, you lovbe that outside as a pitcher and you don't mind it as a hitter as long as it is consistent.
If "consistency" is all that matters, then why is it even DEFINED in the rule book?
I have only been a part of this group for 5 or 6 months but we keep coming back to it this topic.
As a fan of the the great game, at this age ( 15 to 18) I want an umpire to the strike zone as it has evolved with a little room for error for young men. I want hitters to swing the bat and pitchers to bring the ball to / or very close to the strike zone.
At or below the letters to just below the knee. If the umpires dont't call the high strike they better always call just below the knee.
Because at the next level, just below the knee gets called a strike. Most pitchers that can make that pitch make a good living by throwing the ball there. Also, most hitters that can hit the ball there make a good living as well. Both of them have fun playing the game.
Balls that pass through the strike zone are strikes period, right to left ---up to down- - inside to outside- I don't care. Call the **** pitch a strike....because it was. Good hitters should be able to hit those pitches and good pitchers should get the called strike if the batter does swing.
Next Topic Please.
As a fan of the the great game, at this age ( 15 to 18) I want an umpire to the strike zone as it has evolved with a little room for error for young men. I want hitters to swing the bat and pitchers to bring the ball to / or very close to the strike zone.
At or below the letters to just below the knee. If the umpires dont't call the high strike they better always call just below the knee.
Because at the next level, just below the knee gets called a strike. Most pitchers that can make that pitch make a good living by throwing the ball there. Also, most hitters that can hit the ball there make a good living as well. Both of them have fun playing the game.
Balls that pass through the strike zone are strikes period, right to left ---up to down- - inside to outside- I don't care. Call the **** pitch a strike....because it was. Good hitters should be able to hit those pitches and good pitchers should get the called strike if the batter does swing.
Next Topic Please.
quote:Originally posted by SWAC:
Now Doug that is a good response. However, some games I've done this fall I need the brown balls so not to be on the field for 4 hours.
Besides yourself..who do you think your helping here. certainly not the pitcher, or the umpireing profession (or lack there of) Lil joey gets six inches off the plate he will never learn to pitch inside or get movement or change speeds, he will learn to hit one spot outside. When he gets a "real" umpire he gets flustered and or shelled and his entire team,coach and DAD go ballistic over the umpire thus creating stress on the ump and he quits, leaving the bad umps to reign. (Jeeeeez i can turn this into several threads and type all day)
I guess the point is your not helping anyone by calling a "bad" game. Ideally consistancy (should) be not only from game to game but umpire to umpire. this would teach the hitters and pitchers HOW to hit and pitch within the defined strike zone.
John G.,
Herein lies the problem when people have personal conversations in a public place. Keller Dad and SWAC have a personal relationship and are joking around. As to SWAC's comments about "4 hour games", you can rest assured that SWAC respects the game as much, if not more, than anyone around. His zone is very consistent and he is one of the top umpires doing high school games in North Texas.
Herein lies the problem when people have personal conversations in a public place. Keller Dad and SWAC have a personal relationship and are joking around. As to SWAC's comments about "4 hour games", you can rest assured that SWAC respects the game as much, if not more, than anyone around. His zone is very consistent and he is one of the top umpires doing high school games in North Texas.
John G, before you get your pants all up in the air this is meant as a good humor topic to Keller Dad which I have known for a long time. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the game and I do call a **** good game. But to address your comments, I'm not going to stay on the field in the fall for 6 hours while little Joey (thats a familar pharse, I have this friend that......) as you call him cannot get close to the strike zone. Your comments are way off base and meant to be critical and hurtful. Well I guess we have the up rising of another 
Opps, Train I apologize, this guy is no where near the professional you are. You get your opinions across but without personal attacks. Train, I never thought I would give you such positive comments. Well here is another expert that has risen to the top.
Opps, Train I apologize, this guy is no where near the professional you are. You get your opinions across but without personal attacks. Train, I never thought I would give you such positive comments. Well here is another expert that has risen to the top.
I have called games with the swacster and his zone is one of the best around. Only after the game gets out of hand or drags on do you loosen up abit to get or keep the game moveing along.
Whats going on Change Up? You doing any games this fall? Whats going on out at the Rock? Hope you and your family are doing well. I'm sure we'll see each other somewhere this fall. Hey don't forget you should join the Collin County Chapter next year. SEnd me your email address on a PM and I'll get it to the predident. Take care.
Changeup and SWAC in the CC chapter??? PE will never get a call!
PD,
SWAC calling a PE game would constitute a conflict of interest.
SWAC calling a PE game would constitute a conflict of interest.
Swac
A little down in the dumps around here. We played our first high school game on Tuesday and scooter broke his thumb making a tag on a runner sliding into second. He kept quite about untill yesterday and decided he would tell us. The family docter had it xrayed and saw the break and we go to an ortho today so he may be done for the fall. Hope you are doing well and i will get with you on joining up in that chapter
A little down in the dumps around here. We played our first high school game on Tuesday and scooter broke his thumb making a tag on a runner sliding into second. He kept quite about untill yesterday and decided he would tell us. The family docter had it xrayed and saw the break and we go to an ortho today so he may be done for the fall. Hope you are doing well and i will get with you on joining up in that chapter
is he alright? how is fall ball going in the ROCK?
He says he will play but the doctor may tell him otherwise. Fall is going good so far other than the thumb.
SWAC you have a PM
Swac.....if you took that as a personal attack then guess who's flying off the handle? I understood the nature of your discussion. I was merely bringing the topic which you stated of opening up the zone to speed play. and showing just one example (topic) of its effect. It is more than hearsay that many of the umpires (in this area)open the zone up to speed play. As i stated i can create several more discussions or topics on how this negatively effects game play(development). that is the only point I meant to make.
quote:Besides yourself..who do you think your helping here
John G. when you are talking in general terms you don't use the terms you, yourself, etc. Since apparently you are very knowledgeable in this area please open up more topics. I can't wait. As you put it, "This is my personal advice and should be discarded or considered as such, nothing more or nothing less".
And its SWAC, not Swac.
quote:Originally posted by Change Up:
SWAC you have a PM
Ron back at you.
quote:Originally posted by SWAC:
And its SWAC, not Swac.
KD, I can't even have any fun with you anymore before this John G expert goes off the deep end.
SWAC...don't kiss and make up with me. Your strike zone stinks and that is being polite!
HIGHSCHOOLPLAYER....don't ever agree with SWAC unless you play for him. It might go to his head!
TRAINS BACK
HIGHSCHOOLPLAYER....don't ever agree with SWAC unless you play for him. It might go to his head!
TRAINS BACK
From what I've seen, heard, and experienced it is a fact that the majority of parents are the least objective when it comes to the strike zone and many other areas of officiating. God forbid that an umpire call a pitch just above the belly button a strike on junior. I have seen fans absolutely wear an umpire out the entire game, and then tell him "good job" when it's over.
How are the umpires suppose to please you, when there are so many expectations, such as: it doesn't matter where as long as it's consistent; call it as defined in the book; I like to where it's evolved; if they aren't calling the high strike then they better call the one just below the knee a strike everytime, etc. How can anyone meet those expectations? It's like trying to understand/please a woman. EX: What do you want for your birthday? Oh, nothing. Yeah, right.
Throw in the fact that most catchers (not all) today don't have the strength to frame pitches. Sure they can frame the ones that would hit them in the chest, but what about the one where they set up on the inner third of the plate and the pitch is on the outer third? They can't hold it and they continue to drift out making it appear to be outside. The one pitch frame probably started about 15 years ago and it has ruined many catchers. While everyone knows that it's where the ball crosses the plate, it's just a fact that HOW the catcher receives it can affect the call.
Those that know baseball know that the strike zone is exactly what the umpire is calling that day. Every umpire will call a different strike zone on different days. That isn't what they strive to do, but it happens just like when you are having an off day. I have seen the best umpires just absolutely butcher games. Maybe his wife was raking him over the coals, maybe he has to burn a whole day of vacation because he got an assignment for a 9:00 a.m. game, maybe they got drilled the previous night. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.
If they are consistently bad, then the chapter needs to address it. The partner has a responsibility to let the chapter leaders know. Fix it.
Most people don't understand the philosophy of officiating, just like I don't understand the philosophy of officiating in the NBA. I can guarantee you one thing - if an umpire called everything "by the book" he would have to have a police escort off of the field.
I have watched countless games over the years, and there are two things that I know. #1 there are some really good umpires, some that are so-so, some that are learning, and some that are horrible and will never improve. #2 we need to respect the game, and that includes the umpires. They are taking time away from their family, taking time off of work, to provide an opportunity for the teams to have an official apply the rules. For what? $35-40 a game? I guarantee they ain't doing it for the money.
Going back to the pitches "just off the plate", what if the pitch is an inch off of the plate? Inch and a half? Two inches? Two and a half? Are you going to get out the surveying equipment and slide rule? Quick, what was it?!?!
Regarding SWAC, I believe I know who he is and if it is who I think, the chapter that he is in is a good one. They go a long way trying to make sure their guys are improving. That chapter was started by a good man.
This is what I see in SWAC as an official: relatively new to officiating higher level of ball (maybe a couple of years), a desire to do a good job, and the ability to not let the game get away from him. Strike zone.....guys better bring the bats. Tell me if I'm wrong.
You may or may not agree, but what I see and hear is what I see and hear. I have no horse in this race and haven't for many, many years. I guess I'm just getting crotchety in my old age, and it's a slow Friday night.
Start swinging.
How are the umpires suppose to please you, when there are so many expectations, such as: it doesn't matter where as long as it's consistent; call it as defined in the book; I like to where it's evolved; if they aren't calling the high strike then they better call the one just below the knee a strike everytime, etc. How can anyone meet those expectations? It's like trying to understand/please a woman. EX: What do you want for your birthday? Oh, nothing. Yeah, right.
Throw in the fact that most catchers (not all) today don't have the strength to frame pitches. Sure they can frame the ones that would hit them in the chest, but what about the one where they set up on the inner third of the plate and the pitch is on the outer third? They can't hold it and they continue to drift out making it appear to be outside. The one pitch frame probably started about 15 years ago and it has ruined many catchers. While everyone knows that it's where the ball crosses the plate, it's just a fact that HOW the catcher receives it can affect the call.
Those that know baseball know that the strike zone is exactly what the umpire is calling that day. Every umpire will call a different strike zone on different days. That isn't what they strive to do, but it happens just like when you are having an off day. I have seen the best umpires just absolutely butcher games. Maybe his wife was raking him over the coals, maybe he has to burn a whole day of vacation because he got an assignment for a 9:00 a.m. game, maybe they got drilled the previous night. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.
If they are consistently bad, then the chapter needs to address it. The partner has a responsibility to let the chapter leaders know. Fix it.
Most people don't understand the philosophy of officiating, just like I don't understand the philosophy of officiating in the NBA. I can guarantee you one thing - if an umpire called everything "by the book" he would have to have a police escort off of the field.
I have watched countless games over the years, and there are two things that I know. #1 there are some really good umpires, some that are so-so, some that are learning, and some that are horrible and will never improve. #2 we need to respect the game, and that includes the umpires. They are taking time away from their family, taking time off of work, to provide an opportunity for the teams to have an official apply the rules. For what? $35-40 a game? I guarantee they ain't doing it for the money.
Going back to the pitches "just off the plate", what if the pitch is an inch off of the plate? Inch and a half? Two inches? Two and a half? Are you going to get out the surveying equipment and slide rule? Quick, what was it?!?!
Regarding SWAC, I believe I know who he is and if it is who I think, the chapter that he is in is a good one. They go a long way trying to make sure their guys are improving. That chapter was started by a good man.
This is what I see in SWAC as an official: relatively new to officiating higher level of ball (maybe a couple of years), a desire to do a good job, and the ability to not let the game get away from him. Strike zone.....guys better bring the bats. Tell me if I'm wrong.
You may or may not agree, but what I see and hear is what I see and hear. I have no horse in this race and haven't for many, many years. I guess I'm just getting crotchety in my old age, and it's a slow Friday night.
Start swinging.
quote:Originally posted by Train:
SWAC...don't kiss and make up with me. Your strike zone stinks and that is being polite!
HIGHSCHOOLPLAYER....don't ever agree with SWAC unless you play for him. It might go to his head!
TRAINS BACK
Train glad to have you back. John G was trying to talk your place on the board. There is no other
The strike zone I saw this weekend at a BBI game was so tight " a shoe box" couldn't have fit inside.
I do expect the umpires to encourage the batters to swing the bats and to encourage the ptichers to bring it to / through the strike zone most of the time.
Hitters sitting on fat pitchers won't get better and pitchers throwing fat pitches don't mlast long. Neither developes well.
I do expect the umpires to encourage the batters to swing the bats and to encourage the ptichers to bring it to / through the strike zone most of the time.
Hitters sitting on fat pitchers won't get better and pitchers throwing fat pitches don't mlast long. Neither developes well.
I hae to agree. SWACs zone is pretty good.