So we've all heard about the ridiculous numbers that some showcases post for kids. Pop times better than the best ever recorded by an MLB guy, crazy 60 times, etc, etc. This has got the best the best one. PG posted from a showcase a couple weeks ago that a 2022 grad ran a 5.96 60 yard dash. For reference, the WORLD RECORD.....set 24 years ago by a trained track athlete is 5.99. Kinda hard to take anything these showcases post seriously isn't it lol
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Finally, a post about showcase metrics that I agree with!
I think the laser tracker may need calibrating
So you'll see the top performers in Home-to-1st runs of two different PBR showcases done by the same state. Just different times of the year. My son actually turned in the 4.08 in February. He didn't do the one in October and my eyes popped out of my head when I saw those numbers. My kid isn't a lot of things, but what he is, is one the top 10 fastest and quickest 21s in our state. There isn't a kid from that October list that is faster or quicker than him. Not even close. But the numbers don't lie, right? I did ask around and figured out what the deal was. Our state PBR bought a laser timer. And just like that, our state was blessed with a dozen Usain Bolts over night.
For those that aren't very familiar with Home to 1st times (because most baseball is 60 yard), a quick Google search will bring you up to speed. You notice very quickly that most of the kids on the October list are literally off the charts. You won't find times under 3.9 on anyone's charts. But our tiny state has 8 of them!
By the way, take a close look at the grad years of the kids and their positions and things will feel even less right. Imagine a 2022 LHP who runs a 3.79 and a 2022 C who runs a 3.93.
This has been fascinating for me to watch. I ran the 55m (roughly 60 yards) in college. For those comparing track to baseball, it’s different. Baseball times in general are estimated to be about .2 quicker because you go on first movement rather than the reaction time of a gun. The track guys obviously have some offset because they are on a track and spikes. So you put the track guy at PG, he probably runs a 5.7 or faster.
The kid that posted the 5.96 is probably a legit 6.1 in baseball terms. He is a track star and one of the fastest kids in the country. So, the time may be off but not by as far as many people think.
Sooo the world record is 5.99 but the baseball rising SR is 6.1 - I will take the over for as much cash as I can put together please.
@old_school posted:Sooo the world record is 5.99 but the baseball rising SR is 6.1 - I will take the over for as much cash as I can put together please.
I’m in on that one too!
No, on a track he’d be about 6.2 - 6.3. Which he has done:
PBR has a 2024 pitcher whose top speed was 79 a week ago throwing 90 this week.
@DD 2024 posted:PBR has a 2024 pitcher whose top speed was 79 a week ago throwing 90 this week.
He must have spent a week (and $2500) at Top Velocity School
When my 2020 pitched at WWBA his recruiting year, there was a gun fart that kicked his velo up a few MPH. First thing he led with when speaking to schools was "that was a gun fart"
My 2022's had a similar thing happen this year, a bit more off, and PG actually removed it.
@nycdad posted:When my 2020 pitched at WWBA his recruiting year, there was a gun fart that kicked his velo up a few MPH. First thing he led with when speaking to schools was "that was a gun fart"
My 2022's had a similar thing happen this year, a bit more off, and PG actually removed it.
Son & I both think these are exit velo readings that the 16yo doing the recording at some field outside of Hampton doesn’t bother to correct…. We see it a lot.
I know one of the kids on the 60 yard list. He is not that fast - if he is, my son is a lot faster than a 6.7. I have heard they are told to watch to see if anyone is monitoring the starting line. If not get a little farther back off the line. The laser is triggered when it is broke - not on first move.
@DroppedStrikeThree posted:No, on a track he’d be about 6.2 - 6.3. Which he has done:
There is a kid in CT (2020) ran a 6.42 55 meter. He was fast/quick, a good outfielder and I thought an ok hitter. That speed got him a spot at UCONN where I thought he may not ever see the field. Shows what I know.... That speed got him PR opportunities and then a few starts this year. His dad was an LHP for the Red Sox so comes from baseball folk.
Definitely not defending PG or their promotion of the dubious time, but I don't think this is as ridiculous as it appears on the surface.
Michael Gupton did run the fastest 55 meters (60 yds + 5") in the country at 6.31 when he was a freshman, so his time at PG wasn't a laser fart. Maybe the track was a little short, or downhill, or wind at his back... but he's also smart. Laser time starts when your leg blocks the laser (like on a garage door sensor). So unlike sprinting out of blocks, backing off of the line just a hair allows you to be in motion when your time starts. That makes a big difference in start time. He also opened up his starting stance to get facing the finish line quicker (unlike when stealing a base). And I think he's even wearing his track spikes. Anyway, the next closest time at this event was 6.11 with the same equipment and conditions, so he is definitely exceptionally fast.
The irony is that because of PG's arrogance a lot more people now know how blazing fast Michael Gupton is, and that he's probably the fastest high school baseball prospect in the country.
(The 60 yard dash / 55 meters hasn't been a championship track event in over two decades, so that record hasn't been challenged by the world's best sprinters.)
Gupton's segment starts at 10:50. He doesn't give away his trade secrets:
https://youtu.be/n--j3inXnyw
RipkenFanSon used to say there is baseball speed, and there is track speed. He ran indoor track for three years and would always post his best yearly baseball showcase times in winter (during indoor track). Indoor track did teach him technique, which Michael Gupton really has a handle on. With speed being son's elite tool, we knew it was advantageous to run at enough third-party events (60 yd dashes)to get down to a "magical number". For a while he couldn't seem to get out of the 6'5s-6'6s. That changed when he ran the fastest of 223 Showball showcase prospects in front of schools of "mutual vetting." Weather, wind, timer/laser/hat drop, surface conditions really played a factor. In addition to asking his "time" I would usually probe as to where he stood among others. We also arranged for a HTF time at an event to add to his resume in baseball college recruiting.
MidAtlanticDad wanted a few trade (showcase) secrets. Here are a few (I learned) from RipkenFanSon. Run without your protective cup. He felt he was both more flexible and explosive. Most showcases has the 60 yd dash as the first event, so you can put it back on when you grab your mitt. The 60 (as in the video referenced) is often run in pairs. Son often talked with players in line (asking what their top 60 was) and tried to pair with the fastest runner.
As for the HTF times, again their is a big range in time based on methodology used. It should be bat to bag (sound to sound). And full swing, not half. Son's fastest times (in games) were typically 2-strike grounders to infield, so in showcases he'd have to envision that scenario of beating out an infield hit.
Gupton has a 10.5 100m pb, he definitely is extremely fast.
Regarding his 55m time, you have to consider time starts on the gun in track and on first move in the 60, so there is no reaction time which probably adds 2 tenths.
On the other hand the track of course is faster.
Only chiming in because I watched this kid steal about 6 bases off of us like the rest of the game was being played in slow motion.
As some have mentioned he did run the fastest 55m in the US as a freshman in HS at 6.31 and that distance is a hair further than 180 ft. He was at 6.22 a year later. Those are with a gun start, assuming some time was shaved off over another year and add in a laser start and it's entirely possible.
If this kid didn't hit the ball 100mph off the bat he'd have no reason to not bunt every single AB.
I'm a PG skeptic as much as the next guy but it's possible that it's legit. It's also possible his sophomore HS time was a top 25 55m performance of all time. So maybe given the circumstances it's possible. From what I understand if the olympics had a 55m race this kid would at least be at trials.
Don't know enough about sprinting to believe it or not, but watching the video you can see the kid is very well coached at sprinting. Also seems like a great kid.
Know another kid in the top 5 on that list. His time is accurate. There may have been a bit of “fudging” by being a little further back than they should be, but definitely it was the correct distance.
In this metric driven process are we surprised some of these kids are posting track star times? They are training for this like track athletes with running instructors.
So much of what is posted online is exaggerated that it makes the more experienced people very skeptical. I can’t tell you how many times I have been contacted about a kid that is reportedly throwing 88-90 (and it’s posted online somewhere that he is) and I go watch and he is 82-84. Happens literally all the time!
In this particular case the kid is...well...an actual track star so...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K9-5MeDhss
And this was two years ago when he was a freshman.
Yesterday my son went to a showcase - small one and his first real one. Well one kid who threw the highest velocity across the diamond literally took 4 or so shuffles after fielding the ball. I even made a comment as to why throw it to first base - just run it - he was so close. I was informed by my son that - that is done to increase the throwing velocity. I found that interesting.
He said they also had a timing mechanism that would clock the time of the play. Have not seen any numbers yet. Also will be interesting.
How about the listed height and weight of players which are all self reported. Based on walking around at a major showcase I am apparently now 6'4" since I towered over a lot of kids that are listed at 6'2" or 6'3". I also don't think these kids know what a 6'1" 205 player really looks like. Most of the kids are 5'10" probably 175 or lower.
6’4” in their brand new spikes? Lol.
My son has been listed as 6' 2" for the past 2 years and at his doc appointment two weeks ago he finally and formally achieved that height. I think the self-reported heights are aspirational. He might have another inch in him but the only place that lists his height is the college roster, meaning it can't be fudged.
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:My son has been listed as 6' 2" for the past 2 years and at his doc appointment two weeks ago he finally and formally achieved that height. I think the self-reported heights are aspirational. He might have another inch in him but the only place that lists his height is the college roster, meaning it can't be fudged.
Congrats, your son is now 6'4
I think PG and PBR have Jumped the Shark with regards to metrics.
