This is weird

Monica L. kept her dress.

The evidence would never hold up in court. To much chance of tampering, unlike Clinton. It was hard for Clinton to deny that the substance on the dress never came from him. But Mac was his trainer and both parties had already admitted to Vitamin B shots. To easy to add a little HGH to a used needle. The evidence is crapola.

It is weird, but in the "court of world opinion" it will hold up.

Geez, that is really confusing. Did that really happen today?

This just doesn’t add up correctly. He kept that stuff for 8 years to prove his good friend and the guy who had done so much for him and his family was guilty of using steroids? I find that very hard to believe somehow!

BOF, Not sure even the court of public opinion will buy this one.

Congress will now call all the DNA experts from the OJ trial

After sticking the needle in Roger's arse, McNamee decided right then he'd better start covering his!!

Normally when TR posts something "defending" a purported juicer I jump all over him but I can't deny his logic on this one.

I may be confused but at least I've got lots of company.

Pleeeezzzz will someone cut the krap...

Senator Mitchell is not going to open himself up to a law suit, being a federal judge. Believe me he has the goods on all these dirty ballplayers.

Get over it, these guys have been cheating for a long time and Conseca told the truth.

Everyone worries about loyalty but what about the guys who showed their disloyalty by cheating.

Canseco is his own nightmare, but that doesn't excuse the players who were disloyalty to their teammates and did not respect the game.

I'm not buying this one if this indeed happen. I mean, were we even concerned about this topic back in 2000? Not to say it wasn't happening but more about the chances of getting caught/framed, etc. If not, why even THINK about keeping something like this around? It doesn't hold water.

The merry-go-round continues.



Here's the article:

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/spo?guid=20080206/47...2620080206-356187948

Just read the article on one of the news sites ….. bizarre to say the least. But the “public court” can be bizarre - so who knows. Heck if got-wood gets a hold of this one all kinds of bizarreness can happen…

We will just have to sit back and watch this one unfold and post cryptic messages whilst arguing about something none of us know anything about. However, based on what has gone on the past few years within the MLB - where there is smoke, fire is assumed.

quote:

LLortnon posted: Senator Mitchell is not going to open himself up to a law suit, being a federal judge. Believe me he has the goods on all these dirty ballplayers.

I'll think I'm putting my money on the legal professionals. Stupid they ain't. Clemens is playing an away game and way over his head. Ask Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, Miguel Tejada, Palmeiro & Company.

Unreal. What would compel a man to hold onto such evidence for so long? Was there existing conflict? An agenda? Is McNamee a fraud, or did he foresee something like this?

A fingerprint on a steroid vial is a done deal. The Feds wouldn't grandstand like they are without real evidence.

When he released his report,Mitchell himself made a big point out of saying he didn't think anyone should be punished and the important thing is to correct this for the future.

With that in mind, why would he have hidden the fact (in his report) that they had physical evidence on Roger Clemens? Am I missing something here or does this continue to look like someone is trying to make a big score. Isn't ruining someone's reputation enough? Is getting a perjury conviction the goal?

Why hide the fact about physical evidence and only use McNamee's testimony in the report. Why not just get it all out in the open and see what happens?

Still trying to figure out why on earth someone would hold onto bloody gauze pads for so long. This guy had several different homes in that time, but still kept track of those gauze pads and used needles for seven years. Why???? And then... why the need to tell anyone that he had this stuff or did they find it during a search of some kind? Then there was the telephone conversation with McNamee asking Clemens "What do you want me to do?" "I'll do anything for you"

Those just don't sound like comments that would come from a man who turned over 7 year old bloody gauze pads as evidence to the authorities. Seems like he should have been saying, "There is nothing I can do now. I nailed you good"

IMO there's a lot more to this story than what we have heard.

One thing for sure... This has turned into quite a mystery.

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"Still trying to figure out why on earth someone would hold onto bloody gauze pads for so long. This guy had several different homes in that time, but still kept track of those gauze pads and used needles for seven years. Why????



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Well take a look at this picture of the McNamee front porch decorated for Halloween back in '98. Cute? Yes. Wimpy? Yes. Not scary at all. Rather charming actually.




Now start poking those pumpkins with some of these needles and stuffing some of this gauze in their mouth and you've got an authentic Halloween display that everyone will be talking about!




You see PG...there's a reason for everything!


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They will never be able to prove anything against Roger.

As TR said - the circus shall roll on - and lots of people will make alot of money off of it.

What I find most interesting - is that Roger Clemens - would have a close relationship - for an extended period of time - with a guy like McNamee.

Very interesting to me.

Clemens is either completely innocent and never did steroids and HGH

OR

he is a complete moron to keep saying he is innocent as strongly as he is.

We're trying to find the truth between two camps that are in the wrong - the users and the suppliers. Both have strong reasons to lie. We will never know the truth in what is really going on.

Let it go and fix the problem for the future.

coach2709, great observation! The important thing is baseball ends this illegal substance problem and moves on. The primary motivation is for the good of the game. Fans don't want their heroes this flawed.

I guess I'm a traditionalist. Until there's a conviction in a court of law, I'm giving the Rocket the benefit of the doubt. There's just something in the back of my mind that says maybe this trainer is looking for sweet book deal!

I posted a couple weeks ago that somehow I suspected there was something else out there, and it turns out there may be. As soon as somebody runs all this disgusting stuff (bloody gauze pads, syringes?) to the local CSI lab, it'll get more interesting.

I still have a hard time hearing Roger tell me to not trust a guy that HE trusted enough to drop his drawers and put needles in his rear. Not sure about anybody else, but most folks don't just do that for strangers off the street.

I am 100% in favor of moving on, but if the Rocket lied under oath, welcome to Barryville.

Ironic isn't it that the heroes-turned-villans are going down not because of using illegal substances, but for lying about it.

between this scandel, and storm thurman's witch hunt of the nfl.i'm glad our law makers are getting to the bottom of these attrocities. who cares that fuel oil is 3 bucks a gallon AND that oil companys are poised for another record profit year. the economy is tanking daily,and we're in a war.i'm gald we have our prioritys straight.

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:

Not sure about anybody else, but most folks don't just do that for strangers off the street.

With all due respect hokie, this guy wasn't just a "stranger off the street". He was their personal trainer. Someone whom the players trusted to inject them with vitamins, cortisone, etc. MacNamee has to be either totally insane by manufacturing evidence like this to try and clear his name, or he was the most intelligent and craftiest son of a gun I've ever met to keep this stuff around knowing he would need it 8 years later.

I can hear his thought process now..... Ooops..I better not throw away this bloody guaze pad I just used on the Rocket because I JUST might need this sometime in the next 10 years.

What is it that Goldmember says....Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I don't think Mitchell's exposed to liability for anything he said, even if its wrong...acting on behalf of the government, he's got qualified immunity.

Mitchell said he "believed" McNamee. Petitte confirmed about himself the particulars of McNamee's story. In my mind, that bolstered both McNamee's AND Petitte's overall credibility...including what they had to say about Clemens. I believe Petitte also claims he and Clemens talked about HGH and steroids...something, I think, Roger has consistently denied.

However, yesterday, the feds were saying they had no idea McNamee had the used paraphenalia he now claims. If McNamee was interviewed for as long, often and in as much detail as he apparently has, it seems remarkable that he wasn't asked about the existence of physical evidence. Did he keep this evidence hidden from the Feds/Mitchell and fail to tell the whole truth? If the feds ASKED, and he didn't TELL, McNamee is also exposed to perjury. Again, in my mind only (gosh, its lonely in there), this new revelation doesn't exactly enhance McNamee's overall credibility and, if I was a federal prosecutor, I might start to worry about my potential star witness.

On the other hand, is it possible the feds kept that juicy little tid-bit to themselves?

Conspiracy theorists UNITE!!!

Younggundad,

McNamee was a policeman before he was a trainer; if he was ever in Court, or had training, he'd know the term "chain of custody".

I agree he's either an absolutely brazen liar, if this stuff is bogus, or a Clemens' worst nightmare, if it's real. Given the CSI saturation of the networks, I can't imagine his lawyers released the stuff without pretty solid belief that it's genuine. If a client of mine came in with something like that, absent convincing and compelling proof that it was real, it would be in the trash el pronto. They knew it would be micro-analyzed before they came forward with it.

What a circus. It's beginning to sound like a made for television drama. "Roger and Me". Oops, that title is taken.

Hokie is right. McNamee's lawyers would not have disclosed the physical evidence if it wasn't compelling and favorable to thier client. RC and McNamee are playing chicken. The loser goes to jail. It goes to motive. I know why Clemens would lie. Why would McNamee lie?

It is very strange to hold on to that trash for 8 years... why would he do it? did he plan to black mail RC? Write a book and if sued have the DNA? or did he know he was doing some thing illegal and thought RC may turn on him one day so saved it to some how save his butt? ..... This thing gets stranger and stranger

quote:

or did he know he was doing some thing illegal and thought RC may turn on him one day so saved it to some how save his butt?

.........bingo

Has anyone watched ESPN to see what Roger Cossack says about the whole situation? He is the man when it comes to legal expertise. I would say it's a safe bet that he has been on ESPN giving his opinion.

This from the strange (by both parties) phone call.

"What do you want me to do? I'll go to jail, I'll do whatever you want," McNamee said.
"I need somebody to tell the truth, Mac," Clemens told him.

Then there was this that doesn’t seem to gel with the above…

McNamee said. When asked why he would keep this evidence for so long…

He “feared” that Clemens would someday deny using steroids.

Why would he “fear” that? Back in 2000 did he know this Mitchell investigation was all going to happen?

Then just today, McNamee’s lawyer mentioned something like…

McNamee saved the evidence in case Clemen’s ever wanted to throw McNamee under the bus, he was going to drag Clemens with him.

Question… Who threw who under the bus in this situation?

Whether people believe Clemens is guilty or not. Something is very strange about McNamee and his actions?

If somehow they prove Clemens guilty of anything, he will pay dearly. However, how would you like to have a friend like McNamee?

quote:

Something is very strange about McNamee and his actions?

You are right. Flying around the country working out guys AND shooting them up with illegal junk, is not a normal job. They don't teach that in school.

quote:

You are right. Flying around the country working out guys AND shooting them up with illegal junk, is not a normal job. They don't teach that in school.

Very true! And keeping bloody gauze pads and used syringes for 7-8 years is not very normal either. Guess we could all agree on one thing, McNamee is not very normal.

The whole episode, and the culture of artificial performance enhancement in general, is obviously not normal, weird, or you name it. As with most strange subcultures though, I'm almost sure it seems perfectly normal and usual, but only from the inside. What these guys did was the day to day routine, that guys did before them.

Somebody had to grab the whole MLB bunch, from Brian Sabien to Bonds to Clemens to Pettitte to Mcnamee to Selig and Fehr, by the lapels and say "What are you doing? Would you please look at yourself?" The whole episode has been orchestrated to drag the bunch through a big mud puddle and get rinsed off with a hose in the yard.

Well, they are still in the mud puddle.

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Observations/speculations...

Cossack says..."Assuming that they stay on the same paths. Someone is lying, Someone is going to jail."

McNamee may be a creepy, semi-criminal, dark, truth twisting, sexual pervert but professional sports is surrounded by abby-normal wannabees/pilotfish/remora looking for scraps. Too bad, but not that unusuall.

While it all remains to sort out...here is one possible "7 year" scenerio given where we are, and the kind of guy McNamee would appear to be...It was clear in 2001 that the heat would soon be on. Assuming stuff's real, Blackmail would be a perfect motive to save the stuff (not a crime). May have been unable to pull the trigger on his gravy train while begging for help. Figure he was still ready to try blackmail right through the phone call. Then things moved too fast.

Don't underestimate the ability of the forensics guys to get some pretty clear clues....one way or the other. Particularly the federal government and in a case this high profile. And given the depth and breadth of material involved.

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The Brian McNamee Saga!

Featured in...




"And the Rocket's mad glare, his F-bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that his rags were still there."

Just heard on the news that they will be asking the court to make Clemins provide a DNA test sample...the plot thickens. Also they said that McNamee has videos of the injection incidents that he intends to provide to the court as evidence though it may be just another of circumstantial pieces in the tightening noose.

Roger needs to man-up and take his medicine...no pun intended.

Very true! And keeping bloody gauze pads and used syringes for 7-8 years is not very normal either

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you mean to say every one didn't save that polio vacination from 4th grade? boy do i feel foolish. lol

It's normal compared to

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

You are right. Flying around the country working out guys AND shooting them up with illegal junk, is not a normal job. They don't teach that in school.

Very true! And keeping bloody gauze pads and used syringes for 7-8 years is not very normal either. Guess we could all agree on one thing, McNamee is not very normal.

Why would we expect what we percieve as normalcy from people of dubious character?

We guard against our percieved threats. For normal people, they don't consider guarding against thievery, extortion, lying...it's just not part of their culture or thought process. That's why they are so easily duped.

Liars are paranoid about people lying to them, thieves guard their possesions, it is their culture and what they are familiar with.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that McNamee considered that some day he might be a pawn in some rich guys destiny and try and protect himself from it. He didn't just live that life among cheats and liars, he was immersed in it.

If I told you that I lie every time, would you believe me?

Gee thanks Dad04...I've been looking all over the place for my ball of twine. I suspect I know where it ended up!

We think it's confusing and distorted now - wait until Clemens comes up with the "Maybe he did it without me knowing it" defense. IF the needles and gauze pads come back with his DNA don't be surprised if he trots this one out.

"I thought he was giving me a vitamin shots but apparantly it was the steroids / HGH he gave Andy"