Thoughts about this Coach's Talk

MDBallDad posted:

" Yes, talent is extremely important. But talent among a large population like the U.S. should be fairly evenly distributed, right? I mean there is no reason to think that the kids in California or Texas or Florida have more natural talent for baseball than the kids in Michigan or Minnesota or Pennsylvania. So why is it that California or Florida produce so many MLB players, at a much higher rate than you would expect, given their population? Could it be because the kids in California and Florida play more baseball than the kids in Michigan and Minnesota? 

And, yes, very few make it to MLB. But do the same analysis with college players and I think you'll find the same correlation. "

I thought this was interesting...you mention California and Florida but look at the baseball stud states per capita!!!!  All fear the frozen north of South Dakota, Wyoming and Connecticut

The number of baseball players who come from CT per capita is considerable. But SD and WY have small populations that skew statistics. A change of one has a significant effect on the percentage.

Notice the states a poster listed as one, two and three are actually three, six and nine.

RJM posted:

I believe there's a conflict not being looked at when this debate comes up. There are two kinds of players; talented and not so talented. The talented are likely to go on to college ball. The untalented are not. 

There are times parents push their untalented kids into specialization. The reason being they can't see the lack of future potential through their rose colored glasses. One would be the 5'4" dad in my area who named his 5'8" 12yo son The Meal Ticket. I wonder if he renamed him Food Stamp when his 5'9" son washed out of JV ball in high school.

 

That's pretty sad!

Somewhere along the line some parents started treating their kids like 401k's instead of children. 

hshuler posted:

RJM posted:

I believe there's a conflict not being looked at when this debate comes up. There are two kinds of players; talented and not so talented. The talented are likely to go on to college ball. The untalented are not. 

There are times parents push their untalented kids into specialization. The reason being they can't see the lack of future potential through their rose colored glasses. One would be the 5'4" dad in my area who named his 5'8" 12yo son The Meal Ticket. I wonder if he renamed him Food Stamp when his 5'9" son washed out of JV ball in high school.

 

That's pretty sad!

Somewhere along the line some parents started treating their kids like 401k's instead of children. 

I coached a 10yo in travel basketball who is the only preteen I ever felt was a lock for D1 college sports. I figured the kid would be at least 6'7" given his mother is 6'2". The next year I could tell dad was seeing dollar signs. 

The kid stopped growing at 6'3". He was player of the year in a basketball hotbed state. He went on the the ACC. Dad started talking pro ball. The kid ripped up his knee. The kid is now finishing a competent college career in a decent D1 basketball program. But it's the end of his playing days.

RJM posted:

hshuler posted:

RJM posted:

I believe there's a conflict not being looked at when this debate comes up. There are two kinds of players; talented and not so talented. The talented are likely to go on to college ball. The untalented are not. 

There are times parents push their untalented kids into specialization. The reason being they can't see the lack of future potential through their rose colored glasses. One would be the 5'4" dad in my area who named his 5'8" 12yo son The Meal Ticket. I wonder if he renamed him Food Stamp when his 5'9" son washed out of JV ball in high school.

 

That's pretty sad!

Somewhere along the line some parents started treating their kids like 401k's instead of children. 

I coached a 10yo in travel basketball who is the only preteen I ever felt was a lock for D1 college sports. I figured the kid would be at least 6'7" given his mother is 6'2". The next year I could tell dad was seeing dollar signs. 

The kid stopped growing at 6'3". He was player of the year in a basketball hotbed state. He went on the the ACC. Dad started talking pro ball. The kid ripped up his knee. The kid is now finishing a competent college career in a decent D1 basketball program. But it's the end of his playing days.

Great point, RJM! 

I've met several parents who've told me the doctor said my kid will be 6' whatever. One in particular comes to mind where the dad is 5'11" and the mom is 4'10" but the doctor said their 5'1" 8th grader is going to be between 5'10" and 6'2". That could happen...I guess but some people feel like size is everything. I get that it's important but you still have to be able to play. Some feel like if their kid gets taller he'll automatically become a more skilled athlete. 

This leads into the latest epidemic in youth sports...holding your kid back a grade for athletic purposes. I know that's a different topic and thread all together but some parents are holding their kids back to gain some type of competitive advantage that some kids will never have. I am not judging anyone for doing what they think best for their kid but some of the situations left me scratching my head. 

Why do we keep bringing up ML players?  This really shouldn't be about that, it is about making your HS team or a college roster.

Speaking of college roster,  special, very special is Clemson's freshman Seth Beer who technically should still be in HS.     He played for Evoshield Canes.    

WOW!

RJM posted:

MDBallDad posted:

" Yes, talent is extremely important. But talent among a large population like the U.S. should be fairly evenly distributed, right? I mean there is no reason to think that the kids in California or Texas or Florida have more natural talent for baseball than the kids in Michigan or Minnesota or Pennsylvania. So why is it that California or Florida produce so many MLB players, at a much higher rate than you would expect, given their population? Could it be because the kids in California and Florida play more baseball than the kids in Michigan and Minnesota? 

And, yes, very few make it to MLB. But do the same analysis with college players and I think you'll find the same correlation. "

I thought this was interesting...you mention California and Florida but look at the baseball stud states per capita!!!!  All fear the frozen north of South Dakota, Wyoming and Connecticut

The number of baseball players who come from CT per capita is considerable. But SD and WY have small populations that skew statistics. A change of one has a significant effect on the percentage.

Notice the states a poster listed as one, two and three are actually three, six and nine.

I Love it!  was considering moving to Florida so my son could go to a "baseball" high school, but I had it all wrong. we can move  to Wyoming or South Dakota with the added benefit of great fly fishing and hunting.  I'm non Realtor.com right now!

humor disclaimer-   I'm just kidding!

hshuler posted:

RJM posted:

I believe there's a conflict not being looked at when this debate comes up. There are two kinds of players; talented and not so talented. The talented are likely to go on to college ball. The untalented are not. 

There are times parents push their untalented kids into specialization. The reason being they can't see the lack of future potential through their rose colored glasses. One would be the 5'4" dad in my area who named his 5'8" 12yo son The Meal Ticket. I wonder if he renamed him Food Stamp when his 5'9" son washed out of JV ball in high school.

 

That's pretty sad!

Somewhere along the line some parents started treating their kids like 401k's instead of children. 

I am in agreement with that.  Its about the money for lots of people. I know of a few people who were counting bonus money when their kids were entering HS. Don't get me wrong, that happens,  that's why parents so what they do.  

I always tell people dont look too far ahead, one step at a time, but sometimes it seems people are ahead of themselves.

If your kids have the talent and the motivation (you need both IMO) good things will happen, you dont have to mortgage your future for theirs.

TPM posted:

Why do we keep bringing up ML players?  This really shouldn't be about that, it is about making your HS team or a college roster.

Speaking of college roster,  special, very special is Clemson's freshman Seth Beer who technically should still be in HS.     He played for Evoshield Canes.    

WOW!

Best young hitter that I've seen with my own eyes.....hands down. He hit his 7th dinger for the Tigers yesterday. 

Btw, technically (age-wise) he should be a freshman in college although he could have played high school ball this spring. Obviously, he made the right choice by enrolling in January because no high school coach was going to pitch to him. 

GREAT hitter and by all accounts a better young man!

Seth is a good kid and excellent hitter.  But he would actually be an old freshman in college.  Had he waited to start college next year he would have been a 20 year old freshman.  Actually turns 20 this summer.

So it makes sense for him to start college now.  He can produce at that level and get back to his actual draft class which should have been a year or two ago.  Doesn't have to worry about being so old for his class in scouts eyes.  Wouldn't be surprised to see him selected early when he becomes draft eligible, which I believe would be the 2017 draft.

PGStaff posted:

Seth is a good kid and excellent hitter.  But he would actually be an old freshman in college.  Had he waited to start college next year he would have been a 20 year old freshman.  Actually turns 20 this summer.

So it makes sense for him to start college now.  He can produce at that level and get back to his actual draft class which should have been a year or two ago.  Doesn't have to worry about being so old for his class in scouts eyes.  Wouldn't be surprised to see him selected early when he becomes draft eligible, which I believe would be the 2017 draft.

From what I've been told, you're correct!

PGStaff posted:

Seth is a good kid and excellent hitter.  But he would actually be an old freshman in college.  Had he waited to start college next year he would have been a 20 year old freshman.  Actually turns 20 this summer.

So it makes sense for him to start college now.  He can produce at that level and get back to his actual draft class which should have been a year or two ago.  Doesn't have to worry about being so old for his class in scouts eyes.  Wouldn't be surprised to see him selected early when he becomes draft eligible, which I believe would be the 2017 draft.

So essentially he is where he should be?  Dave was  19  freshman fall. Looking back, we should have taken up the offer to enroll him earlier. Get drafted in 2 years. Makes sense.

Regardless, he is a very good hitter.

Here is an old story, I think written in 2012.  It pertains to the topic in some ways.  Seth was a big standout at another sport when he was a young boy.

http://www.perfectgame.org/Art...ew.aspx?article=7374

In the four playoff games that I saw two years ago, I think he was 13-16 and he squared up everything....even his outs! Kid can flat out swing it!

PGStaff posted:

Here is an old story, I think written in 2012.  It pertains to the topic in some ways.  Seth was a big standout at another sport when he was a young boy.

http://www.perfectgame.org/Art...ew.aspx?article=7374

 

What I've learned (playing and coaching) is that the best athletes figure it out...no matter the sport!

Golf, pool, table tennis, hunting, etc...give them a few weeks and they will compete. 

Nice story. Yes, I do believe at one point some have to decide at one point. My daughters ex was a stand out bb player as well as a swimmer. He chose to attend USC (california) on a swimming scholarship and missed Olympic trials by a few seconds.  He was never sorry that he didn't chose bb.

Clemson comes to Miami in a few weeks, looking forward to see him hit.  

PGStaff posted:

Here is an old story, I think written in 2012.  It pertains to the topic in some ways.  Seth was a big standout at another sport when he was a young boy.

http://www.perfectgame.org/Art...ew.aspx?article=7374

 

Great article. And clearly he is a great athlete. And it looks like concentrating on baseball at age 13 -- that is, not playing multiple sports in high school -- was a good decision for him. And the article makes clear, it was his decision -- not his parents or coaches. 

2019Dad posted:

PGStaff posted:

Here is an old story, I think written in 2012.  It pertains to the topic in some ways.  Seth was a big standout at another sport when he was a young boy.

http://www.perfectgame.org/Art...ew.aspx?article=7374

 

Great article. And clearly he is a great athlete. And it looks like concentrating on baseball at age 13 -- that is, not playing multiple sports in high school -- was a good decision for him. And the article makes clear, it was his decision -- not his parents or coaches. 

Point well made an outstanding athlete. They usually are very good in any sport they play.

TPM posted:

Nice story. Yes, I do believe at one point some have to decide at one point. My daughters ex was a stand out bb player as well as a swimmer. He chose to attend USC (california) on a swimming scholarship and missed Olympic trials by a few seconds.  He was never sorry that he didn't chose bb.

Clemson comes to Miami in a few weeks, looking forward to see him hit.  

IMO - Well worth the price of admission. Great approach...does very little in the trigger/load process to generate power. 

Funny that we had a conversation about him this afternoon someone just sent me the following:

CHARLESTON, S.C. - Freshman outfielder Seth Beer (Suwanee, Ga.) was named one of seven national players-of-the-week by Collegiate Baseball on Monday. Beer led the Tigers to a 3-1 week, including a series win at Wake Forest over the weekend.

Beer had a big week at the plate, totaling four homers, one double, 10 RBIs and a 1.250 slugging percentage. He also had five runs, two walks and one hit-by-pitch against no strikeouts and a .500 on-base percentage.

On Wednesday against Winthrop with Clemson trailing 3-1 in the ninth inning, he belted a two-run double to tie the score. Then over the weekend, he blasted four homers with eight RBIs in the three-game series at Wake Forest. He became the first Tiger since 2006 (Andy D'Alessio at Duke) to hit four homers in a three-game series.

Son just called to tell me and mentioned that he made one of the  collegiate national players of the week.

Tigers are in Charleston to play The Citadel in a two game series. Seth is the teammate of Shoveit4k's son.

Go Tigers!!!!

hshuler posted:

TPM posted:

Nice story. Yes, I do believe at one point some have to decide at one point. My daughters ex was a stand out bb player as well as a swimmer. He chose to attend USC (california) on a swimming scholarship and missed Olympic trials by a few seconds.  He was never sorry that he didn't chose bb.

Clemson comes to Miami in a few weeks, looking forward to see him hit.  

IMO - Well worth the price of admission. Great approach...does very little in the trigger/load process to generate power. 

 Both sides to the plate?  He is from your town so I imagine you have seen him. I don't know much about hitting but  its the process he uses to get the power that they say is pretty impressive.

TPM posted:

hshuler posted:

TPM posted:

Nice story. Yes, I do believe at one point some have to decide at one point. My daughters ex was a stand out bb player as well as a swimmer. He chose to attend USC (california) on a swimming scholarship and missed Olympic trials by a few seconds.  He was never sorry that he didn't chose bb.

Clemson comes to Miami in a few weeks, looking forward to see him hit.  

IMO - Well worth the price of admission. Great approach...does very little in the trigger/load process to generate power. 

 Both sides to the plate?  He is from your town so I imagine you have seen him. I don't know much about hitting but  its the process he uses to get the power that they say is pretty impressive.

 

He's not a switch hitter...sweet swinging lefty only!  

I am taking my son up to Clemson soon to catch a game or two. 

hshuler posted:

TPM posted:

hshuler posted:

TPM posted:

Nice story. Yes, I do believe at one point some have to decide at one point. My daughters ex was a stand out bb player as well as a swimmer. He chose to attend USC (california) on a swimming scholarship and missed Olympic trials by a few seconds.  He was never sorry that he didn't chose bb.

Clemson comes to Miami in a few weeks, looking forward to see him hit.  

IMO - Well worth the price of admission. Great approach...does very little in the trigger/load process to generate power. 

 Both sides to the plate?  He is from your town so I imagine you have seen him. I don't know much about hitting but  its the process he uses to get the power that they say is pretty impressive.

 

He's not a switch hitter...sweet swinging lefty only!  

I am taking my son up to Clemson soon to catch a game or two. 

 

I meant both sides of the field? Duh!

 FL State in April,  will be there then. Always a good series between those two.  This weekend is BC who is doing well.  

LoL...yes, uses the entire field as most good hitters do.

hshuler posted:

LoL...yes, uses the entire field as most good hitters do.

 

 

 

 

Lol, the good hitters.

Seems to me he just has been putting them over the fence!

TPM posted:

hshuler posted:

TPM posted:

hshuler posted:

TPM posted:

Nice story. Yes, I do believe at one point some have to decide at one point. My daughters ex was a stand out bb player as well as a swimmer. He chose to attend USC (california) on a swimming scholarship and missed Olympic trials by a few seconds.  He was never sorry that he didn't chose bb.

Clemson comes to Miami in a few weeks, looking forward to see him hit.  

IMO - Well worth the price of admission. Great approach...does very little in the trigger/load process to generate power. 

 Both sides to the plate?  He is from your town so I imagine you have seen him. I don't know much about hitting but  its the process he uses to get the power that they say is pretty impressive.

 

He's not a switch hitter...sweet swinging lefty only!  

I am taking my son up to Clemson soon to catch a game or two. 

 

I meant both sides of the field? Duh!

 FL State in April,  will be there then. Always a good series between those two.  This weekend is BC who is doing well.  

BC has played a bunch of cupcakes before last weekend. They did take two of three from NCSU.

TPM posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

Why is it that we harp on "getting a well-rounded education" but we aren't concerned about "well-rounded athletes?"

I was thinking the same thing.  Perhaps for some, especially these days it's more about raising athletes than raising children. 

 

I like your quote, "more about raising athletes than raising children."  I think it is very easy to lose sight of the goal - raising children to become good people.  If they become a great athlete along the way, wonderful; but the goal should be helping them to become the best adult they can be.

Hard to believe some teams have played almost 20 games and are near the "half-way" point. Wow does this college season move by quick. I have been following a few younger friends through their first season and along the lines of this thread, its amazing to see how they are fairing. They ALL have talent but some are taking longer than others to realize this. Some are taking longer than others to understand how important academics are. Some are taking longer than others to adjust to everything new that is College Baseball.

TPM posted:

hshuler posted:

TPM posted:

hshuler posted:

TPM posted:

Nice story. Yes, I do believe at one point some have to decide at one point. My daughters ex was a stand out bb player as well as a swimmer. He chose to attend USC (california) on a swimming scholarship and missed Olympic trials by a few seconds.  He was never sorry that he didn't chose bb.

Clemson comes to Miami in a few weeks, looking forward to see him hit.  

IMO - Well worth the price of admission. Great approach...does very little in the trigger/load process to generate power. 

 Both sides to the plate?  He is from your town so I imagine you have seen him. I don't know much about hitting but  its the process he uses to get the power that they say is pretty impressive.

 

He's not a switch hitter...sweet swinging lefty only!  

I am taking my son up to Clemson soon to catch a game or two. 

 

I meant both sides of the field? Duh!

 FL State in April,  will be there then. Always a good series between those two.  This weekend is BC who is doing well.  

Mr. Beer went 2-5 yesterday, including a walkoff HR.  I think he's batting .456 right now. 

Mr. Beer is ACC co player of the week!  They threw him a breaking ball low and away.