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I Think the Nescac has such a slotting system. I know some of the NCAC schools when they are asked why they cannot compete ins one sports like the NESCAC schools. It differs for each conference.
Edit: I found this on NESCAC'S site:
http://www.nescac.com/admissions/admissions
Other conferences or schools may be different as per Birdman below.
A "slotting system" varies among schools. Certain once have the ability to get certain exceptions in, but they usually need to be within certain close standards to the regular admitted students. In other words, some coaches have some influence where others may have very little. It all depends on the school and their admissions department policies.
I know some of the NESCACs have slots for baseball from kids I know playing or played there. The same is true for Hopkins and Haverford.
I get confused on slots and tips. The OP described slots that are for "players who wouldn't otherwise get admitted". I know it varies by school, but for NESCACS, Hopkins and Haverford... a coaches recommendation isn't going to get a guy admitted who doesn't have at least the bare minimum academic credentials, right?
At top academic colleges, regardless of division the standards are different for slotted athletes. A regular student might need a 4.0 and 1500+ on the Math and English SATs. The slotted athlete may only need a 3.5 and 1300. The college will likely check on the level of the classes taken (honors, gifted, AP) to be sure the athlete can compete in the classroom.
In addition to what has been offered, I think among slots you will find a banding system in NESCACs and other D1s as well as Ivy & Patriot. Ivys refine their banded slots using their AI calculation For D3 NESCAC example purposes:
Band A - SAT scores 700+ avg above 680, SAT 2 720, GPA top 5%
Band B - SAT scores 650+, avg above 610, SAT 640, GPA top 15%
Band C - SAT scores 630+, avg above 580, SAT2 600, GPA top 20%
Band D - SAT scores 600+, avg above 530, SAT2 560, GPA top 25-35%
These bands will vary by school, and the number of slots per band will vary. You need to ask the coach how many slots and what are the band breakdowns. Amherst's "B slot" will be different from Hamilton's "B slot" for example. Schools have a different number of slots per year, but the band distribution may stay the same. From what I've been told the AD determines the distribution of slots per sport. Football and basketball may get a vastly different number of C and D bands than baseball for example. There are a number of advantages for the recruit who doesn't need Admission help, and various strategies a coach may need to use to get the recruits he really wants. It is best to ask a lot of questions.
So, this is a complex question as every school does it a bit differently, but the basic method at Swarthmore/Haverford/Hopkins works as A/B/C. Kids are rated as to athletic talent. An "A" player is a kid who can change the nature of the teams competitiveness; someone who is a potential All-America or fills a difficult to fill hole (think lacrosse goalie or left handed 90mph pitcher, or stud catcher being stolen from D1) The coach gets maybe one or two of those per year and that kid can be at the very bottom of the NCAA D3 academic rules for mean academic eligibility. That kid better perform in the classroom AND on the field because the coaches horsepower and credibility with admissions is riding on that kid.
"B" kids are the core of the recruiting class. They fit the academic profile of the school but they jump to the head of the line because of the academic "tip". That is what the "tip" is. The coach gets to make the recruiting scale tip in the "B" kids favor.
The "C" kids are in a tough spot. They think they are the "B" kids. The coach is hoping to get them but he knows its 50/50. Not a tip. Not a slot. A hope. My experience is that most of these kids get in as long as the go ED. They almost never get in as RD. Some become stars, some ride the bench.
After the pre-read, if you are smart enough to ask, and then listen to the answer carefully, the coach will tell you exactly where you stand. Over the years, I have seen so many parents misunderstand the communication! We all hear what we want to hear. We love our kids- we think they are geniuses. Wait until freshman year. (as an aside I remember my son calling me freshman year and saying "I thought I was a special little snowflake and now I'm in a pile of snow")
The best coaches have the most horsepower with admissions. Success on the field yields increasing horesepower. Failure in the classroom reflects very poorly on the coach. At the small schools - Swarthmore, Haverford, Amherst, Williams- you are working with roughly 6 slots. The big schools - Hopkins, Tufts - are working with something like 10 slots. Remember, big school/small school, the field has only 9 spaces. Hope that helps.
.............We love our kids- we think they are geniuses. Wait until freshman year. (as an aside I remember my son calling me freshman year and saying "I thought I was a special little snowflake and now I'm in a pile of snow")
Priceless comment at any level of college baseball.
So, this is a complex question as every school does it a bit differently, but the basic method at Swarthmore/Haverford/Hopkins works as A/B/C. Kids are rated as to athletic talent. An "A" player is a kid who can change the nature of the teams competitiveness; someone who is a potential All-America or fills a difficult to fill hole (think lacrosse goalie or left handed 90mph pitcher, or stud catcher being stolen from D1) The coach gets maybe one or two of those per year and that kid can be at the very bottom of the NCAA D3 academic rules for mean academic eligibility. That kid better perform in the classroom AND on the field because the coaches horsepower and credibility with admissions is riding on that kid.
"B" kids are the core of the recruiting class. They fit the academic profile of the school but they jump to the head of the line because of the academic "tip". That is what the "tip" is. The coach gets to make the recruiting scale tip in the "B" kids favor.
The "C" kids are in a tough spot. They think they are the "B" kids. The coach is hoping to get them but he knows its 50/50. Not a tip. Not a slot. A hope. My experience is that most of these kids get in as long as the go ED. They almost never get in as RD. Some become stars, some ride the bench.
After the pre-read, if you are smart enough to ask, and then listen to the answer carefully, the coach will tell you exactly where you stand. Over the years, I have seen so many parents misunderstand the communication! We all hear what we want to hear. We love our kids- we think they are geniuses. Wait until freshman year. (as an aside I remember my son calling me freshman year and saying "I thought I was a special little snowflake and now I'm in a pile of snow")
The best coaches have the most horsepower with admissions. Success on the field yields increasing horesepower. Failure in the classroom reflects very poorly on the coach. At the small schools - Swarthmore, Haverford, Amherst, Williams- you are working with roughly 6 slots. The big schools - Hopkins, Tufts - are working with something like 10 slots. Remember, big school/small school, the field has only 9 spaces. Hope that helps.
Great post! ED & RD are short for?
Early Decision, Regular Decision.
The coach gets maybe one or two of those per year and that kid can be at the very bottom of the NCAA D3 academic rules for mean academic eligibility.
Thanks to all for this detailed info on bands. I wanted to clarify one point; is there a formula or average of some sort that is used across all of D3... in other words, a division-wide rule that dictates the lowest acceptable level? Or, is the lowest acceptable entrance level going to differ from school to school, based on some standard deviation tied to each school's entrance requirements/averages? I'm guessing it's different school by school, but don't want to assume anything. Many thanks.
Each school conference has their own standards. The D3 Conference is a very large tent. THey have everything from the NESCAC schools academically, to some state schools, such as those in Wisconsin.
Each school and conference servers a different populations of young men and women. There is some overlap. But each school or conference has different admissions standards, from some of the elite schools hardly anyone can get into down to If you have a diploma form a school in your state you gain addmitance. This is a good thing. all populations should be servered and given an opportunity.
But with the degree of diversity in D3, a minimum across the board would not be possible.
BLD, as usual, you provide a broader perspective of D3 which is so valuable. What happens in the NESCAC might be different than the much larger SUNY schools and those in Wisconsin. What happens at a school like UT Tyler(pretty large) might be very different than what happens at Harden-Simmons(smaller and private) even though they are in the same conference.
Based on our experience over a pretty long time, there can also be variations based on the University president and who is in charge of admissions. The vision of each D3 President and Admissions officer about college athletics makes a major difference on the admissions considerations discussed so well in this thread. A change in President or Admissions officer can send the pendulum swinging a very different way.
But with the degree of diversity in D3, a minimum across the board would not be possible.
BLD - Thanks for the reply. I should have worded my question better. What I was wondering based on an earlier post was if there is some uniform D3 formula for ariving at the bands. Such that Band A = 1.5 standard deviations from the schools mean average of all admissions, Bnad B = 1 deviation, etc... or something along those lines. I think it's still the same answer, no.
A better way to ask would be: Are the minimums for each Band set entirely independently by each school (probably) or maybe some conferences set conference-wide ranges that each member school must use for admissions?
Edit -- I just saw the NESCAC admissions link that you added above... Many thanks.
.............We love our kids- we think they are geniuses. Wait until freshman year. (as an aside I remember my son calling me freshman year and saying "I thought I was a special little snowflake and now I'm in a pile of snow")
Priceless comment at any level of college baseball.
It's a priceless comment for any kid leaving home and facing the realities of life.
But with the degree of diversity in D3, a minimum across the board would not be possible.
BLD - Thanks for the reply. I should have worded my question better. What I was wondering based on an earlier post was if there is some uniform D3 formula for ariving at the bands. Such that Band A = 1.5 standard deviations from the schools mean average of all admissions, Bnad B = 1 deviation, etc... or something along those lines. I think it's still the same answer, no.
A better way to ask would be: Are the minimums for each Band set entirely independently by each school (probably) or maybe some conferences set conference-wide ranges that each member school must use for admissions?
Edit -- I just saw the NESCAC admissions link that you added above... Many thanks.
And be aware not all D3 schools have these bands, and if they do they do not publish them. I am unaware if any of the schools that recruited my son did. All the coaches recruitied him for his talent but were certainly happy to see his grades and standard scores.
And even with the bands, you still have to have good academics. the bands help but will probably not get a c student into the D3 schools that use tips and bands. Unless they are a complete stud, and possible D1 talent, and the admissions office is willing.
kevkev29,I'll give you a real life example of this that played out last month.My son's friend and teammate was recruited by a NESCAC school in Maine.His ACT score and cumulative GPA are much lower than the mean for this particular school,but his high school's profile is very strong.
The head coach ranked him as his number one recruit and told the boy and his dad that with this designation, and from his experiences dealing with admissions, he would be admitted as long as he applied early decision.The coach went on to explain how he ranks his recruits 1-6.
My son's friend was admitted to the Class of 2018 on Dec.20th 
In my son's case,his ACT score,cumulative GPA,and high school profile are equal to the mean.Amherst,like all of the NESCAC schools is a tough nut to crack.There were more than 8000 applications this year for 450 spots.Would he have been admitted without baseball ? Maybe.Maybe not ! No way to predict since ALL of the 8000 applicants are strong candidates for admission.
There are off the chart kids who get denied by NESCAC/Swarthmore/Haverford/Hopkins schools every year. Being a recruited athlete at any of these institutions definitely has it's advantages as far as being admitted.
My sons D III coach told me years ago that he had "one", meaning the admissions folks would allow him to choose one player for admission, but he had to be very close to their admissions standards. If it wasn't even a close call, there was nothing he could do.
"Tips" are the result of the fact that the "one slot" plan is not mathematically possible at the schools with the highest number of applicants. At these schools, where only 15% (or fewer) of the applicant pool are accepted, only one recruit in 7 would gain admission without tips. In that case the coach would have to entice 42 specs to apply in order to get 6 players admitted in each class! Not possible. That's were the A/B/C system and tipping comes from.
As Fenway mentioned, some of the schools also throw in the AI to match the IVY logic in order to use some math to counter the subjectivity. Regardless, the math of admissions makes a subjective advantage go to athletes in order for schools to field competitive teams and maintain long held athletic traditions.
CD is correct in that different administrations set different athletic priorities. At my son's school a new president decided a few years ago that the school's long history of athletics (one of the first schools in the country to have a baseball team) required more of a commitment from admissions. The baseball team got good very quickly after that!
The flip side of this is that the non-athlete has a decided disadvantage in that 10% of the class is athletic tips. This creates an ongoing debate on these campuses where some students resent tips, while tipped athletes point to debaters, musicians, etc. as equally advantaged as the tipped athlete. (intellectual kids argue about everything)
The math is clear, at the academic D3's an admissions preference is required for a baseball team to be competitive.
@leftyshortstop posted:So, this is a complex question as every school does it a bit differently, but the basic method at Swarthmore/Haverford/Hopkins works as A/B/C. Kids are rated as to athletic talent. An "A" player is a kid who can change the nature of the teams competitiveness; someone who is a potential All-America or fills a difficult to fill hole (think lacrosse goalie or left handed 90mph pitcher, or stud catcher being stolen from D1) The coach gets maybe one or two of those per year and that kid can be at the very bottom of the NCAA D3 academic rules for mean academic eligibility. That kid better perform in the classroom AND on the field because the coaches horsepower and credibility with admissions is riding on that kid.
"B" kids are the core of the recruiting class. They fit the academic profile of the school but they jump to the head of the line because of the academic "tip". That is what the "tip" is. The coach gets to make the recruiting scale tip in the "B" kids favor.
The "C" kids are in a tough spot. They think they are the "B" kids. The coach is hoping to get them but he knows its 50/50. Not a tip. Not a slot. A hope. My experience is that most of these kids get in as long as the go ED. They almost never get in as RD. Some become stars, some ride the bench.
After the pre-read, if you are smart enough to ask, and then listen to the answer carefully, the coach will tell you exactly where you stand. Over the years, I have seen so many parents misunderstand the communication! We all hear what we want to hear. We love our kids- we think they are geniuses. Wait until freshman year. (as an aside I remember my son calling me freshman year and saying "I thought I was a special little snowflake and now I'm in a pile of snow")
I'm reviving this because I think we are about to be having a couple of conversations with some coaches and I want to make sure we ask the right question and get clarity on where we stand. If a coach gives my son an offer, does he ask if he is getting a "slot" or a "tip?" Or maybe he just asks what kind of admissions support he will get?
Thanks for any advice about how to have that conversation.
My kids played at a higher level. But I coached kids who went D3. The first two things to look for are 1) Does the coach ask the player to apply early decision? It means he wants he player commuted to the program. 2) Does the coach request the player give him the application to walk it through admissions? It means he has slots where a lesser academically talented player can get pushed through admissions.
A friend’s son was told he was one of six admission slots and would have an opportunity to be the starting shortstop freshman year. He was. The kid was a borderline ivy (D1) recruit who didn’t get more than “get accepted and you’re on the team.” Of course, he could have got accepted and later told the team had more than thirty-five players and cuts have to be made. The kid could have received offers from lower level academic D1’s.
This particular D3 HA team’s coach didn’t believe in large rosters. He rostered third-two. In the fall twenty-seven kids strutted out to the field thinking they were preferred walk-ons. There were three roster spots available after the slotted recruits and genuinely preferred walk ons.
One of my former travel players was told if he gets accepted he’s on the team. All it means is D3 can have unlimited rosters. The kid was on the team four years and for a total of forty at bats. His only shot to win a second opportunity was have a big game in one of his handful of starts. He didn’t. He never played twice in the same week. But, academically the school was his first choice.
It’s not uncommon for D3 coaches to get bonuses for convincing X number of baseball players to apply and accept admission. It costs the coach nothing when he has an unlimited roster.
These are things that need to be looked for in the conversation. Check for body language and enthusiasm, or lack of from the coach when he’s discussing them.
Given a few days I’m sure you will get several responses from posters whose kids went D3.
This is easy.
I would ask the coach “what kind of athletic admit system does your school use”? Then, “I know some schools have a letter grade system for tips. Others have a less formal system”. Based on the answer you ask the next likely question. “Can you tell me how my son fits into that system? - as we only have 1 ED choice to make”
He will tell you the truth but it might be inside coach speak. After all, he knows this is your baby and his rep is his currency.
@RJM. Wow! "It’s not uncommon for D3 coaches to get bonuses for convincing X number of baseball players to apply and accept admission. It costs the coach nothing when he has an unlimited roster." I'm sorry but that's a little dirty. Not much different from selling used cars or timeshares.
And then there's MIT- one of the toughest D3's to navigate in recruiting (actually saw it in process for my niece and softball). The coach provides admissions with a list and the list comes back with players admissions office selects. So I guess it's possible that a MIT recruiting class could have several players who play the same position.
First, it depends on how selective the college is. If the admission rate is more than 30% and your son has a pretty good chance of getting in, your questions (and their answers) will be different than if admission rate is 10%.
These are good threads for this question:
https://community.hsbaseballwe...ir-level-of-interest
https://community.hsbaseballwe...34#52687313962323334
At super-selective schools, if the coach really wants your son, he will probably tell you up front (i.e. before you ask) what he is offering: something like "I have 6 names that I can send to admissions with a 99% guarantee, and yours is one of them." That is different from "I send a list to admissions and you will be on it but ultimately it is up to them, but if you get in I would love to have you on the team" which is different from "I don't have a slot for you/room on my list, but if you get in on your own you have a place on the team." Whichever you get, you can ask "what percentage of kids with this support do get in?" They know that you get one shot at ED, so they should understand.
Note that most will ask you where else you are looking, you should tell them, they all know each other and probably already know the answer.
At less-selective schools where your son could easily get in (possibly with merit money), the "offer" is different, and, as others have said means less.
@Ripken Fan posted:And then there's MIT- one of the toughest D3's to navigate in recruiting (actually saw it in process for my niece and softball). The coach provides admissions with a list and the list comes back with players admissions office selects. So I guess it's possible that a MIT recruiting class could have several players who play the same position.
My son has a teammate trying for MIT. Super smart. Could probably get into many HA D3s on his academics alone. Maybe this will give him an extra bump.
"My son has a teammate trying for MIT. Super smart. Could probably get into many HA D3s on his academics alone. Maybe this will give him an extra bump.".
I think he better be a kid that gets into "ALL" HA D3 on academics alone to have a chance at MIT.
Can anyone comment on how difficult it is to get selected for the AZ fall classic academic game as a jr? How many kids do you compete against for a slot? Is it even possible for a 5 ft 9 kid to get selected?
@Dadbelly2023 posted:I think he better be a kid that gets into "ALL" HA D3 on academics alone to have a chance at MIT.
I'm not sure there is a kid like this. He can have a perfect SAT score and be valedictorian and not get into all HA D3s. There are no sure bets at that level. Plenty of perfect applications get rejected by schools like MIT every year.
I have been teaching at my HS (private college prep) for 15 years. If my memory serves me right we have had 1 student who got accepted into MIT. He was #1 in his class and a forward on the basketball team. He committed to play hoops there before the HS season ended. It was fun to hear the crowd chant M-I-T when he went on a scoring run (to the tune of the typical M-V-P chant )
For the image people have of MIT students I got to see some acting like regular, insane college kids. Last year MIT was in the Northeast Regional at Southern Maine. I chatted with some of the parents before and during the game.
That evening I had an errand at the mall. I ran into some of the parents and the players. Or should I say the players almost ran into me. They were riding the motorized stuffed animals and hooting like it was a rodeo event.
To quote Capt Kirk From the Star Trek Episode Shore leave." The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play"
@Dadbelly2023 posted:"My son has a teammate trying for MIT. Super smart. Could probably get into many HA D3s on his academics alone. Maybe this will give him an extra bump.".
I think he better be a kid that gets into "ALL" HA D3 on academics alone to have a chance at MIT.
Can anyone comment on how difficult it is to get selected for the AZ fall classic academic game as a jr? How many kids do you compete against for a slot? Is it even possible for a 5 ft 9 kid to get selected?
At the 2015 jr. fall classic there were 40 outfielders trying out for 12 spots. At the 2017 jr. fall classic there were upwards of 50 for the same number of spots, 12. I don't think a player's height mattered in the selection. Hitting the ball hard, having a cannon, and speed, those mattered.
I mention this every time the Fall Classics come up: running the 60 on the "track" at the classics is like running on sand. My guys ran 7.1's or so in AZ after running 6.8s in summer events.
Full disclosure: Each of my boys tried twice (jr/sr) to get picked for the each all academic game and were not selected. They both now play for pretty HA and baseball-solid programs that have qualified for D3 regionals in the past couple of years.
Others on the board have had more success via the Classic. I think our 'success" was that the event helped both my boys understand what pond they should fish in. Once they figured that out, they saved a BUNCH of time by fishing there and not in the big lake they call Gitchee Goomee.
Re: slots at HA D3's, AnotherParent's post nails it. Both my guys had gpa's and test scores around the 50% at the schools they are at and both were told by their coaches that they were on their respective lists of 6/7 names the coaches sent to Admissions for ED.
One sailed through, the other changed his mind before he actually applied, went EA elsewhere, that second coach disappeared on him, went back hat in hand to the first coach who told him his slots were used up but to go ahead and apply and if he got in he'd be on the team. So he applied ED2, was waitlisted, followed up with an impassioned letter about how much going there would mean to him, yaddayaddayadda, and he got in. Not the route I'd recommend if you have a choice.
Kids.....
@anotherparent posted:First, it depends on how selective the college is. If the admission rate is more than 30% and your son has a pretty good chance of getting in, your questions (and their answers) will be different than if admission rate is 10%.
These are good threads for this question:
https://community.hsbaseballwe...ir-level-of-interest
https://community.hsbaseballwe...34#52687313962323334
At super-selective schools, if the coach really wants your son, he will probably tell you up front (i.e. before you ask) what he is offering: something like "I have 6 names that I can send to admissions with a 99% guarantee, and yours is one of them." That is different from "I send a list to admissions and you will be on it but ultimately it is up to them, but if you get in I would love to have you on the team" which is different from "I don't have a slot for you/room on my list, but if you get in on your own you have a place on the team." Whichever you get, you can ask "what percentage of kids with this support do get in?" They know that you get one shot at ED, so they should understand.
Note that most will ask you where else you are looking, you should tell them, they all know each other and probably already know the answer.
At less-selective schools where your son could easily get in (possibly with merit money), the "offer" is different, and, as others have said means less.
This post should be framed.
@smokeminside posted:This post should be framed.
Mostly based on your various posts!
