I'm a long-time follower and an occasional poster -- have learned a great deal from this umpiring forum ... especially the difference between a timing play and a force out. That being said, here's a scenario I'm curious about:
1 out: R1 & R3: batter hits fly to F8 which is caught. Both runners tag. But R1 left early, and the defense correctly appeals it (after R3 has scored) -- and R1 is ruled out. Does the run count?
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Glad you've learned a lot, here is your test, Y N and fill in the blank. No grading on the curve, partial credits. Pass fail. Ready?
1. Once the FB is caught, can R1 be forced?
2. Is this a force play or a timing play?
3. An appeal play is a ______ play.
4. On a timing play, the runner must touch HP ______ the 3rd out is made.
1. No
2. Timing
3. Timing
4. Before
First thing...the proper terminology is "time play," not "timing play." It may seem like a nit, but I prefer that we all know what the proper terms are and how to use them.
Second thing...the confusion often arises due to the manner in which a runner is put out on appeal and on a force. An appeal out can occur by tagging the runner or the base where the infraction occurred. A force out can occur by tagging the runner or the base to which he is forced. It is the tagging of the base that gets people.
Difference between force play and time play: When it comes to scoring a run on the third out, it is always one or the other. A force play is any play on a runner before safely reaching the base to which he is forced. A time play is any non-force play that occurs and the status of a scored run is in question due to when it scores in relation to the out recorded.
We can move to definitions, which are the same in all codes. A force is when a runner loses the right to occupy a base because the batter becomes a runner. The batter has to go somewhere (1B,) so R1 will always be forced in these situations. A force is removed under two circumstances: when a succeeding runner is put out, or the runner reaches his advance base.
With that in mind, we can think of an appeal play. Appeals can either be time plays or force plays, depending on the infraction. The best way to think of it is to determine if it is a force play, and if it isn't, then you know it's a time play. Was the runner forced to the base where the infraction occurred? Were all succeeding runners still in play at the time of the infraction? If so, you've got a force play appeal. If not, it's a time play.
So, let's apply this to the OP. Was R1 forced to the base where the infraction occurred (1B)? No, R1 can only be forced to 2B. (We could stop there, because we know this is now a time play, but for illustrative purposes, I'll continue.) Were all succeeding runners in play at the time of infraction? No. BR was out on the catch (you may think the infraction occurred as soon as R1 left, but it actually didn't until the conditions were met, which is the legal catch of the batter's batted ball.)
So, in short, an appeal play is a time play unless it is a force play. A force of a runner at a base can only be at one particular base for each runner (his advance base,) which means that an appeal can only be a force if the infraction is for a runner missing his first advance base to which he is forced, and only if all succeeding runners are still alive when he misses it.
Lets change the scenario a little..
2 Out R1 and R3. Base hit to short LF, Runner at 3rd jogs it home, there is a play at the plate on R3. R1 round 2nd (missing the bag) and continus to 3rd. R3 is safe at the plate and there is an appeal on R! at 2nd base.
In this scenario, the run DOES NOT COUNT as R1 is out as a force play at 2nd.
Matt13 - thanks for taking the time to clarify this so thoroughly and clearly. And thanks also to NewUmpire for the additional scenario -- which further illustrates what Matt13 was saying.
I was quite sure from the get-go that this was a time play. What I didn't know was exactly when R1 (who left early) becomes officially OUT ... which Matt13 explained. And that's really the key to the final ruling here.
What I find somewhat fascinating is that there are actually 4 distinct points in time that may or may not have any bearing on the outcome of a time or force play with an appeal:
A. the time at which the baserunning infraction occurred
B. the time at which the fly ball was legally caught
C. the time at which the runner crossed the plate
D. the time at which the runner is called out after the appeal is made
As per Matt's explanation, "B" is the only one that applies to the OP. But the existence of the other 3 could likely be the source of some on-field arguments by those who don't understand the rules a well as our umps on this site.
Thanks again.
Matt13 - thanks for taking the time to clarify this so thoroughly and clearly. And thanks also to NewUmpire for the additional scenario -- which further illustrates what Matt13 was saying.
I was quite sure from the get-go that this was a time play. What I didn't know was exactly when R1 (who left early) becomes officially OUT ... which Matt13 explained. And that's really the key to the final ruling here.
What I find somewhat fascinating is that there are actually 4 distinct points in time that may or may not have any bearing on the outcome of a time or force play with an appeal:
A. the time at which the baserunning infraction occurred
B. the time at which the fly ball was legally caught
C. the time at which the runner crossed the plate
D. the time at which the runner is called out after the appeal is made
As per Matt's explanation, "B" is the only one that applies to the OP. But the existence of the other 3 could likely be the source of some on-field arguments by those who don't understand the rules a well as our umps on this site.
Thanks again.
Oh, yeah. I've seen many, many coaches try to argue that the appeal of leaving too early constitutes a force out.
