Too much cage hitting

sgtdad:

I believe that good live BP is better than good machine BP but good machine BP can be better than bad live BP. I know of hitters, like your son, that seem to do much better with live BP [good or bad] and poorly with the machines. I have no explantion for this. You may be right. It may be a timing thing. But I think for many of the younger players out there, machine BP might be better for working on a plan like I described in my earlier post because unless the live BP pitcher is very good a good machine can put the ball the same place consistntly time after time. Some of the more expensive machines are also good for practicing hitting curve balls though again, a good live BP curveball is still the best IMHO.

TW344

itsinthegame:

What did you say? Oh yeah. The guy with the monkeys. There real cute. I like them.

Kindred spirits. I have alway liked your Bouton quote. Still the best book ever writen about inside baseball.

TW344

quote:

Originally posted by TW344:
itsinthegame:

What did you say? Oh yeah. The guy with the monkeys. There real cute. I like them.

Kindred spirits. I have alway liked your Bouton quote. Still the best book ever writen about inside baseball.

TW344

I'll take the cute compliment (that is truly a first in my life - LOL) - and the Bouton compliment as well.

I have no shame.

LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Fan in the Stands:
What do you do with a player who consistently tries to pull an outside pitch?

I would put him in a cage and teach him how to go the other way... but that would be a plan.

Fan in the Stands, great question. Coach Cohen at the University of Kentucky has a great drill for this. It requires 3 tall cones and you put a baseball on top of each cone. The cones are separated to simulate the power gaps. The drill is achieved through soft toss from in front of the hitter and behind a protective screen. This is "soft toss" only in name. The ball is fed with some zip on it and the batter's goal is to hit a progression of outside (let the ball get to them and knock the ball off of the tee.) One down the middle, knoce the ball off of the cone in front of the protective screen and one inside (knock the ball off of the left field cone.) As the progression is sequenced, and if the feeder is doing his job, the batter is learning how to recoginize pitch location and keep their body connected in order to drive the ball to the appropriate area. In my opinion many things can make this a poor drill. Slow tossing of the ball, inaccurate feeders and doing the drill to quickly without the proper set up on each pitch all can make this drill ineffective. JMHO!

Wow,

I was just reading this thread as i was finishing up my lunch.

BlueDog,

have you ever played this game at all?

"Situational hitting is for losers.....Don't sacrifice the runner over, hit him in.... "

"There should be no plan......Just hit like you would in a game.....No plan.... "

"And, quit standing on third and interrupting hitters when they're in the box....Leave 'em alone and let 'em hit.....

"I don't coach....You should know that....I teach hitters who play for coaches.....Because they can't teach them......."

Just once...tell us where it is you teach. Do you have any examples of this incredible hitttng factory you claim to run? Any references whatsoever?

This thread has proven what I (and obviously many others)have thought since I joined this site and have read your useless oneliners all over the hitting forum. Your completely clueless when it comes to this game or how to actually teach it to anyone.

In summary...your advice here in this thread to young players.

1. Do not listen to your coach! Or at a minimum do not step out and look for a sign!

2. Do not understand that with a man on 3rd and less than two outs it is wise to try to hit the ball to the right side. (Remember you only want that RBI if you can pull the ball!)

3. Above all else....DO NOT THINK, Just jump in there and hit.

Do you have anyone you have taught who actually plays this game for real? Anyone who actually follows this "advice" wont be playing on a team for very long.

I think the young man in an earlier thread pegged you perfectly. He was asking for REAL help & advice and you offered only your usual oneline useless garbage. I think the young man called them yodaisms. Well, from now on perhaps you should be known as Yoda.

Now,

To the point of the thread. Here in the northeast, cage hitting is essential since from late Oct. to March its hard to get outside.

My view is whatever technique a player is using, he can never get enough work refining it.
As long as he is going to the cages or any workout with a plan (YES... A PLAN!) of what he wants to accomplish that day.

Always practice with a purpose. If you just go and swing for the sake of swinging, you will begin to embed mechanical flaws and soon those flaws will become habits. If you are fortunate enough to have a video camera or even a digital camera that can take small videos, use it as often as possible. Build up a library of workouts that can show you your swing at its best as well as swings with problems. This will be invaluable to you when your season comes along and things dont feel right or go wrong for you.

NH,

Excuse me for butting in here - but let me tell you how this will most likely go with Bluedog - as I have seen it now for - hard to believe - many years.

Several "partners" and cloned ids - will come on and compliment BlueDog. Soon.
They will also denigrate you.

They will then ask Bluedog a question.
He will answer with the latest and greatest theory. You may even see a redirect to another site - implicitly or explicitly.

The "responders" will tell him how great his answer is. And how he really knows the game. LOL

And on and on and on.

From "swinging bats into a 300 pound bag of sand" - to "creating chaos" - to "swinging axes" - it is a circular troll rodeo.

Take my word for it - dont waste your time.

Thats a redirect.

Can you picture a right handed hitter practicing how to drive an outside pitch into the right centerfield gap?

Can you picture a young man working on specific weaknesses in his swing?

Can you picture a hitter working on pitch recognition?

Can you picture a youngster working to make his hands and arms and wrists as strong as they can possibly be?

Can you picture the Xrays of a youngster after he swings a bat into a 300 pound bag of sand?


We know what you cannot picture.

The question is - what can you picture - other than one-liners - and trendy buzz words?

Seriously - what can you picture?

LOL

The only place "we" got is another 50 pixels down the screen - with another meaningless one-liner.

Troll on doggie - troll on.

LOL

What's up fellas? Haven't read the posts in this thread yet but a good hitter can never have TOO MUCH CAGE HITTING!

A perfect example is Vero Beach Dodgers prospect Blake DeWitt who has been in the cages at Dodgers complex every time us scouts have been in attendance in the middle of the hottest part of the day before 7:00 games the past 3 weeks and has raised his average 30 points and hit "5" HRs in the last week! Peace Brothers, Shep

Hi There Yoda!!!!!!!!


How's the force doing today ?

Itsinthegame,

Hi, just got back a little while ago from my son's American Legion game.

Thanks for the advice, I would have to agree with you, this guy does make me laugh though.

I just feel bad for the young kids that come on here and don't realize he is just a goof.

Don't know about YODA but the sneak preview of Superman is playing at the theaters tonight

BlueDog, is NH talking about you??

Shep,

Yes, its my new name for BD...actually i cannot take credit for it.....a young player who came to this site looking for help got tired of his useless posts and he called them yodaisms.....

NH

Guess I musta missed the yodisms

How did your son's Legion team do tonight?

Peace Brother,
Shep

Shep,

They won 12-5.

Sounds like a good night. Legion ball down here is having a difficult time competing for players with all the AAU and travel teams.

This is all part of the changing times in FL...I suppose. Have a good evening

Peace, Shep

Shep,

Yes, kind of the other way here, not many 16U or above teams here. AL is the most competitive level here for HS age players. We did the AAU route from 12 to 14 and then split between AAU and AL last year. This year, just AL and only one really long road trip. Practices and home games are 15 minutes from home now instead of 70 minutes.

Thanks for the conversation, a good night to you as well.

Yoda,

Ill answer anything....as soon as you answer mine....personally i find you on about the level of the court jester....you simply provide the comic relief here....nothing else...you have not offered any real info to anyone.

I am not the one claiming to be the god of hitting out here. I offer you another opportunity to put forth some info about yourself. Your profile certainly doesnt tell anyone anything.

I have spent the past few years learning from lifelong baseball people. Guys who have taught players who have played for major league organizations. My sons Legion coach played AAA ball in the eighties for the Twins & Cardinals.
His first AAU coach has a son pitching for Red Sox at AA Portland. The second AAU organization he played for was run by a former college baseball coach and Yankee scout.

Would you care to offer up any info on your background besides "I teach hitting"?

Thank You Yoda,

"Credentials and knowledge are far too often not associated with each other in baseball coaching circles....

Beware of the credentialed "this is the way it's always been done, so I teach it this way" coach...... "

As most of us have figured out....you have no credentials, knowledge, exeperience or students.

Yoda,

957 posts!...and finally ...your right for once...I have learned a lot.

I am still learning from people who played and coached the game at the professional level.

Are you so scared to reveal your background and learning experience? OPPS....you actually have to have one to do that. Cutting & pasting from obscure web sites doesnt look so good on the resume does it.

I am glad to see you have mastered the art of the Graemlins though, see even you learned a skill here.

---------------------------------------------

Lets leave Yoda in his galaxy far, far away......

----------------------------------------------


Back on earth, anyone have anything else to offer up on this subject?

By NHFundamentalDad

quote:

Shep,

Yes, kind of the other way here, not many 16U or above teams here. AL is the most competitive level here for HS age players. We did the AAU route from 12 to 14 and then split between AAU and AL last year. This year, just AL and only one really long road trip. Practices and home games are 15 minutes from home now instead of 70 minutes.

Not to change the subject, but I have to ask... You mean there is somewhere in the USA where American Legion is still the best baseball available? Or for that matter AAU?

Over the past 5 years there have been 140 players who participated in our events who were drafted in the first round. I could be wrong, but I can't think of a single one of those draft picks who played Legion baseball. For that matter I can't think of many who played AAU baseball either. At least not once they got past 16 years old.

The same thing holds true for those playing in the top college programs. Can anyone give some examples of high draft picks coming out of Legion programs in recent years? I'm sure there are some, but I believe they were all found playing for some other team that actually does travel.

I'm not trying to cut down Legion Baseball (I love the organization). It's just that we've noticed a big change over the last 10 years. On a national scale Legion baseball no longer gets the best players and has suffered dramatically. In fact, because of the problem they even changed the age limit to allow more college kids to be eligible. Problem is... once again... the very best college kids are playing in the Collegiate summer leagues where the best players are.

By the way, this years American Legion World Series will be played across the street from our headquarters.

Best baseball:

AABC

(as far as actual league play goes)... hands down...

PG,

I can't vouch for 1st rounders, but Jeff Locke was picked 51st overall by Atlanta. He played AL here for Plymouth, NH. We faced him in HS ball this year too.

You have to factor in that here in NH, there are no real AAU programs that operate after 15U.
There may be an occasional year where a few kids hang on and form up a team at 16U, but its very rare. In Massachusetts, there are several teams that have 16U. It a lot of travel though, as most of these teams are south of Boston.

But after you do the AAU thing for 4 years, Its nice to play good baseball without having having to travel 400 to 500 miles every weekend.

The level of ball is still very good. My son is 16, so he is seeing the best pitching in the state plus the kids that come back and play that 19 yr old year as well. Last weekend, we played in a tournament in Keene, NH with teams from NH, NY, CT, RI and even Anchorage, Alaska.

NHFD,

I understand and am aware that there are still places where Legion Ball is still the best. In South Dakota Legion Baseball is about all there is. Also know it is very good baseball.

Being as close as we are with the Braves and you could ask Jeff Locke and get the same answer.

He became a known prospect nationally playing for a non legion team in Florida last year. Shortly after seeing him we ranked him among the top 50 high school prospects in the country.

That was also the first time Braves Scouting Director Roy Clark had ever heard of him let alone see him. The second time Roy Clark saw Locke was again last winter in Ft Myers Florida at the PG World Showcase.

Then because of the above, the Braves tracked him closely including Roy Clark watching him throw in High School this spring.

Perhaps the smartest thing Jeff Locke ever did was get out there and let the world see him. I’m fairly certain he would agree at this point.

How good is your Legion team? Any chance you guys could make it to Cedar Rapids Iowa for the World Series this year? Best of luck.

Pg,

From my limited knowledge of the boy, Locke seems to have his head screwed on straight. We wish him all the success he dreams of.

It's great for the younger boys here in our area to see that hard work can get them to their dreams. We have had a few guys relatively local to us taken in the draft the last couple of years. Locke and Chris Anderson this year, Jayson Whitehouse last year. Sam Fuld also from this area was drafted. Chris Carpenter (NL Cy Young Winner) came from Trinity HS in Manchester.


So far so good here with the Legion team. We are 7-1 overall (3-0 in district) including a 3-1 record and the title in the Gubby Underwood tournament in Keene last weekend.

As far as getting to ALWS, anything is possible. The boys are focused on winning the district first, then they will set their sites on the next step.

As time goes on - Bluedog's sentences continue to contract.

Soon - it will just be NO and YES.

LOL

You are too much dude.
A troll - but a hysterical one.

LOL

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

I am still learning from people who played and coached the game at the professional level.

Not a good idea......

So you're saying it's better to learn how to hit, pitch, etc from somebody who's never stepped on a field?

I bet you stay at Holiday Inn Express when you travel.

Beezer, what the Dog is saying( I'll translate for him on this one) is that pro coaches work with the elite. Most of them would have no idea how to teach a kid who isn't very athletic and has no athletic actions and has slow hands and no idea how to swing a bat. Its a different world of coaching when it comes to most players who aren't gonna play at the higher levels. Someone who has studied the game and has spent many years perfecting his coaching practices would be better in allot of cases.

I think cage work is great for building reps...soft toss and tee hitting should be used to diagnose a mechanical issue or engrain it, but you need to see a pitching motion...the reason you are doing well now is your able time you swing trigger to the pitchers motion...as far as hitting them over...Hank Aaron said it best...I never tried to hit a homerun..I just tried to make solid contact. Consider this as well...dingers are great...but when you have a team of line drive hitters you have baserunners...which means you have a defense doing something other than straight away defense...thus holes in the defense...runners put stress on the entire team in the field...fielder, pitcher and the catcher....clearing the bases actually allows them to relax.

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
Beezer, what the Dog is saying....

Nice that you're sticking up for him but that's not what it looks like he said to me.

NHFdad said he learns from those who have played/coached in the pros and BDog said that's a bad idea which means it's better to learn from somebody who hasn't ever played or coached if you ask me.

I think what you're suggesting is that there are "elite" hitting coaches out there who won't work with the average kid. That's probably true and having said that, the average kid probably wouldn't have access to him or the funds. That would be like sending my daughter (a golfer) to work with David Leadbetter or Butch Harmon ("elite" instructors). Besides that costing an arm and a leg, there are many qualified PGA pros capable of helping her.....much like there are many former players & coaches capable of helping the average HS player.

This thread has gotten so long, I may have over looked a similar post. About four years ago, I took my son to the local cages. Three drunk cowboys showed up as we were leaving. I thought this ought to be funny. The first round of 20 pitches were 18 misses and 2 fouls. the next round was 14 misses, three fouls and 3 hits. They progressively got better as the rounds increased, considering their condition. After watching them laugh, stumble and eventually hit, it appears that a sober person with bad mechanics could eventually hit given a number of pitches. Now we take four to five cuts and step out/rotate with another player to reduce the number of pitches.

quote:

Originally posted by Fan in the Stands:
Now we take four to five cuts and step out/rotate with another player to reduce the number of pitches.

Dear #126 - who is "we"?


LOL

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Fan in the Stands:
Now we take four to five cuts and step out/rotate with another player to reduce the number of pitches.

Correction: Now I have my son/another player...

Stay away from the drunken cowboys when practicing hitting.

That is my advice, #126.

Actually - the only reason it sounds familiar is because you keep posting it.

LOL

Wacky stuff!!!

BD


When will will ever post without your CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE ?????

Answer without a question please

Well, actually the point I was trying to make was:
1. It's fine to work on your swing in the cage, but after a certain amount of swings, every player will pick up the timing and hit better.

2. Unfortunately, you might see 4 pitches during an at bat.

bluedog

Cage hitting is fine to a degree--I have said this over and over--the best means of BP is off live pitching so you can see the arm action as well as various types of pitches, you know-- the ones that Doggie says do not rise and those that do not curve--- live BP also helps you "focus" on the release and the ball ,not a ball coming out of a machine