Top "10" Excuses / Top "10" Reasons

There are
good players.... and bad players.
Good coaches,...bad coaches.
Good parents,...bad parents.

We all know this.
We also know where we sit in the equation.

Baseball,....a definate good thing.

quote:

I am NOT saying that all coaches are moronic...the vast majority are smart, giving and fair people.

I initially agreed with the above statement, but then started thinking about ALL the coaches that I have known over the past 50 years through personal experience in baseball and have come to a totally different conclusion. This includes all levels from little league through professional(including a number of major league mgrs) and have actually come to the opposite conclusion. First of all, they were NOT moronic-some came close -, but IMO the vast majority were NOT smart, giving and fair people. Some were fair, some were smart, some were giving, but the vast majority rarely had all three of those qualities. I believe it might be demeaning to coaches Like Coach May-who I feel has those qualities-to lump him in with the vast majority of coaches.

Some coaches were fair but didn't have a clue about the game.
Some were smart but extremely egotistical and didn't know what "fair" meant.
Some were giving but lacking in baseball intelligence.
Some were lacking in all three categories.

Rare is the coach who has all three qualities-I've known a few and and those few will always be special to me. Two of those coaches were Hal Smeltzley and Chuck Anderson of
Florida Southern College-both won a number of DII National Championships at different times there. Both had all three of those qualities and a "few" more. They don't come along that often.

Again, I do not claim to be the expert, just relating personal experience.

I agree that there are too many excuses given for not being successful when the answer
most of the time is in the mirror.

Moc1, you said it ALOT better than I did. Thank you.

CatSureMom, wasn't trying to disagree with your statement, because my first thoughts were
"Yea, most coaches are like that!" and then I started thinking about coaches from the past and realized that very few had all three qualities. Not saying that there aren't a lot of coaches like that but I believe they are few and far between. Thanks.

Coach May, I want you to know nothing I said was directed at you. I have been reading your posts for a long time and like I said you sound like a very nice man and a good coach.
When I saw your original post, I thought about the many times a parent has posted a problem they are having with the coach/program. MANY times people jump right in and blame the parent/player. I think this is not a fair approach. That is all. It seems like all agree problems are experienced on both sides of the fence.
I do have a question for you. This is not a baited question, just wodering about a seasoned coaches impression.
You stated "I play the kids that give us the best opportunity to win the game". What if you do not win? Time and again. Do you tinker with line-up or have you made a decision on the best 9 and stick with it, til it turns around?

Gosh after reading these posts no wonder people are nervous when their kids are entering HighSchool. I have seem my share of everything from overzealous parents to baseball Booster club parents wondering why their kids aren't starting. Yes, I have seen the bad side and good side of HighSchool ball. I have also seen Coaches play the best 9 to win the game. I have witnessed kids moving up from Freshman to play Varsity and all hell explodes. Primarily the Junior parents are wondering whay a FROSH has ouplayed them and their position. Excuses, Excuses, Excuses, etc.

Sometimes as parents we are clouded from our kids because they are the best from Little League to Travel. But guess what happens when they reach HighSchool, they usually stop working and coaches see this. We as parents are on the outside looking in wondering what is going on.

From what I can see , HighSchool Coaches do not play kids who are going to lose the game. They may play kids that at different positions but for the most part they will play the best 9.

No excuses! Get out there and outwork your teammates, take extra batting practice, don't be the last one while running poles.

BBBum, It is the "best 9" part that I am wondering about...ideally, if a coach plays the kids that give the best opportunity to win, the best 9...he should at least have a winning percentage. IMO, that is when parents complain...when the coach is not winning. IMO it would be counterproductive to complain about playing time if team is winning.
I have witnessed alot of what you and others have posted about, but by and large reasonable people look for reasonable solutions. I do recognize there are unreasonable people, saw first hand a starting position "bought" on a travel team, also been on receiving end of hostility when son started over "better" player(he ended up getting drafted 1st round, so he had the last laugh )

Moc1's post is one of the most interesting if not controversial one's I have ever read. I guess I have always towed the line with the collective group think around here that there are good players and bad players, good/bad parents and coaches the like.

If I am reading it correctly, he is suggesting there are more flawed coaches than good ones. I decided to think that one over lunch.

Maybe we need to go back to the simple human premise. All people are flawed, coaches are people, thus, coaches are flawed. Maybe coaches are analyzed more closely for flaws than the general public so things may seem more apparent to some

Maybe what ballplayers need to do is learn to operate in a non-perfect or non-ideal world. Learn to deal with the nuances and idiosynchrocies (sp) of the particular coaches involved. Just maybe, young ballplayers need to learn to do these things without making excuses as Coach May has suggested. Just maybe, coaches can consider whether or not the way they did things yesterday is also the right way to do them today.

Some other thoughts....

Often times what seems to be a confilct or a poor decision is just a different value judgement. For example, one player may be a higher average player but with little power whereas another may be able to hit it a long ways but not make as much contact. In one case, a coach may value the contact hitter over the power hitter - lets assume for argument they both play first base. The parents of the power hitter may be perpetually complaining that everyone knows you play your power hitters at first base. In a second case, the coach may value power at that position. The parents of the contact hitter might be telling people "How can that coach play someone there when our son is a better hitter." In a third case, maybe the coach platoons at that position. In the examples that I outlined, there are no villains there. If your skill set does not align with a particular coaches vision or philosophy, you might be the odd one out and that coach may in fact be making the right decision for HIS team.

Personally speaking, I am flawed. I have picked my favorites this year. Each year I do so. One parent last week in a private meeting told me that everyone knows my favorite. That parent pointed out that I like this one young man more than the others. I don't know, he's hitting almost .600, has 3 doubles, 3 triples, a home run 14 RBIs, 7 stolen bases, is one of the fastest players in the nation (6.37 60) says "yes sir and no sir," etc. In my human fraility, I had to admit that I liked him a lot.

On a serious note, my daughter's basketball coach doesn't know anything. LOL!

ClevelandDad, that was a very nice post!

I like the idea of adapting, overcoming, and achieving!

Good post CD!!!

quote:

Often times what seems to be a confilct or a poor decision is just a different value judgement.

....or different valued opinion.
Perhaps its one in the same.
Either way,..I agree with your above quote CD.
Nice job!

In HS we had a player who as a sophmore was very good, he played. The following year, his mom became president of our booster club.
The player began the following season doing ok, but eventually was substituted for someone else. Got fewer and fewer starts. The mom knew her son was not getting it done, but felt because she was working so hard at President there should be considerations. She had him transfered, he didn't play much at that school either.
Rule #1, don't ever take on responsibilities for your son's playing time.

High school baseball is not the same as middle school travel ball. If you son did particualrly well in that situation, he is now entering a situation where players may me 3-4 years older and more mature than he.
Rule #2, do know that your son, maybe highly skilled, but has a lot to learn.

There may be HS coaches that most likel, in parents opinions, are not that good, show favoritism and don't, for whatever reason, play the best 9.
Rule #3, explore other options if you feel your son is not getting the playing time or insturction you feel he deserves in 28 games or less in HS. Summer travel teams, showcases, summer camps, etc. If you do these things and he still is not playing as much as you think he should, maybe it's not the coach.

For those who have younger players, high school baseball is IMO what it is, a chance for ALL players, those that want to play beyond HS as well as well as those who want to be future doctors, lawyers, not just professional baseball players someday.
Rule #4, don't be angry at the coach because you think that a player is "stealing" playing time for an opportunity for your son to get a baseball scholarship.

If your son has the opportunity to play beyond HS, it most likely IS because he has the talent to get the opportunity to do so, no matter how much playing time he got in HS.
Rule #5, be prepared that the process begins all over again, freshman have players now very much older than them, more physically mature AND more experienced. There is a lot to learn and most likely will not see much playing time unless their is a need.

Baseball is a game based on skill and for some that means it may take some longer to develop than others. Don't blame the coach if your son doesn't get that scholarship or drafted where you think he belongs, be proactive, help him to achieve what he is lacking with instruction outside of the HS environment. Prepare him as best as you can, and as stated above, if it still isn't working, stop placing blame on the situation.


If a coach is not playing his best 9 and has a losing record, the coach needs to be replaced. A coach should be,IMO, constantly making adjustments, throughout the season. I did say this once, my son's HC stated sometimes it can take 22-25 games until he gets a clear picture of how players are doing. That's about halfway through the season. For some it clicks right away, for others, hurt players, young players, older players not being consistant, lack of chemistry,it takes time. Parent should understand that this happens at every level.

Parents these days are 2 weeks into the season and very disappointed their son isn't playing, where they would like (JV, varsity) or not playing much (not a starter), not playing his RIGHT position (ex. pitcher playing another position) There is no problem coming and asking for advice here, but when a parent states it's because the coach doesn't like tall players, the coach is playing favorites because the parent donated lawn equipment, the coach did this, etc, etc, the parent has to learn to be patient, learn that in the end, if the player has the skills, has the talent all good things will happen, NOT when they or their sons want it too.

I have known Coach May for a long time, I know who his son is, I know who is recruiting his son, I know who some of his players are that have signed with for next year, I know college coaches that respect him, I know he is a fair coach. There should be IMO, more Coach May's in the world. Parents AND coaches should read carefully what he has posted.

JMO.

CD, a very well written, well thought post.

I have found this thread very interesting. I loved the lists. Obviously I'm new to this board, but I am not new to baseball. The lists could be a factual account of a coaching/team failure. (Coaches are only human) The point I got from Coach May is to not turn them into excuses.

When we have found our son in a situation that proved to be a negative one, we took it and made it a learning experience. He worked harder, ran faster, and played smarter. And when he left he took what he learned. It was his gain! The experience and confidence shows through on the field and that can not be taken away. He is a tall guy, and impresses people with his play. He left two teams, and we are always grilled as to why. Our son is a good player. He is a team leader.

imo, it is our job as parents to place our children in positive situations when we can, but we have to learn to give up control too. I am looking forward to high school next year - then we will see how he really stacks up. We don't expect our freshman to receive the respect a senior may have earned.

Exuses and A**holes, everyone has them but no one wants to hear them.

quote:

He left two teams, and we are always grilled as to why. Our son is a good player. He is a team leader.

Did your son fulfill his commitment to his teams before he left?

I'm just curious, I feel that you fulfill your commitment's to your team.
Even if you don't feel your getting a fair shake.
Then you move on to bigger and better thing's.
HS is only a 3 to 4 month commitment each year.
It's not the end all be all of success in baseball.
Just a part of the experiance that a ball player should go thru.

As parent's we get wound tighter and tighter when we don't think are player is getting a fair shake.
It's what we do during this time, that can make the differance in are player continueing to play the game.

No complaint's( easier said then done ).
No Excuses ( we have a million of them ).

Play the game, and have Fun.

A little story on playing time.
Son 2 way player very good in HS.
See's only the field now in short relief. ( right now??)
I get more excited now at 1 batter faced in a tight game.
Then I ever did watching a full tournament of baseball.

Enjoy and be positive.
EH

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
I'm just curious, I feel that you fulfill your commitment's to your team.
Even if you don't feel your getting a fair shake.
Then you move on to bigger and better thing's.

A deal breaker is a deal breaker. If the coach didn't fulfill his committment, why is it a one way street?

You are right when you say play the game, and have fun...when it's not fun, walk away and find something else to do. I know that sounds flippant, but I really believe it. Even if it means picking up the same sport another day with another team.

I'm not condoning quitting over playing time, how you're used, etc. But if the coach is truly not living up to his committment, what bonds us to that team other than teammates. If there is no connection there, and on many top travel teams there's not...

cplz
what was or is the coaches commitment? players go to a tryout to make the team, not make the team if they like it. they signed on for the full monty. if a coach promises something and didn't deliver ,oh well that doesn't give the player the excuse or reason to let down a team,a school, a community. there is no i in team.


just my opinion.

Perhaps we let the subject of whether or not to stay or leave a travel team go... there are legitimate arguments on both sides...

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:

Son 2 way player very good in HS.
See's only the field now in short relief. ( right now??)
I get more excited now at 1 batter faced in a tight game.
Then I ever did watching a full tournament of baseball.

Enjoy and be positive.
EH

It's amazing isn't it! One batter, one inning, more exciting than 4-5 at bats.

JMO.

TPM,
Nobody prepared a parent's heart for anything like this.
Maybe we need a coach??
EH

I am glad you are enjoying, it gets better!

CPLZ,
That was one of my pet peeves as a coach, having a player quit the team to go to "greener" pastures but as long as it was done with class I didn't mind. The fact was that for our area we only had a mediocre travel team and didn't try to compete against the top teams except in local tournaments so we had to expect the players who were focused on winning to go elsewhere.

Now when we had some players quit a couple days before a tournament we'd already committed to because they were unhappy about playing time (I was only carrying them out of loyalty) I wasn't too happy as that left us without enough players and I had to scramble to keep from having to pay the entry fee.

My son a few years ago decided to leave the team he had been with for 4yrs. It wasn't about the coach, the coach was great. It was about the competition we were playing against and not going to some national tournaments we qualified for.
I was able to help put him in contact with another coach who scouted him and said he would take him. He accepted after only thinking it over for about 15mins. Then if he wanted to go through with it HE HAD TO GO TO HIS COACH. I made him go speak to his coach in person not over the phone at the tryouts for the new season and tell him he wasn't coming back. He had to understand the consequences of his actions and be a man and handle it at 11yrs old. Dad would not step in it was up to him. He did it all and grew-up a lot. It was a very tough thing for him to do but HE did it not me. He stayed with his new team for 4yrs until HS and may one day transfer to be with them again.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
cplz
what was or is the coaches commitment? players go to a tryout to make the team, not make the team if they like it. they signed on for the full monty. if a coach promises something and didn't deliver ,oh well that doesn't give the player the excuse or reason to let down a team,a school, a community. there is no i in team.


just my opinion.

20,
The coaches committment is to honesty, integrity, and fairness. I understand that with the emotions involved it can seem like an impossible target for some, but on the other hand, if the coach is not living up to that, it can be blatently obvious.

The player is not letting down anybody by walking away from a bad situation.

When you say they signed on for "the full monty", that would imply some kind of contract or understanding. My point is, that if the coach isn't being held to his end of the understanding, why do so many people feel that the player should be held to greater accountability? The answer is, he shouldn't.

Right now, I can think of several HS varsity coaches in several sports in our area where they have trouble filling the rosters because kids simply won't play for them. They are lucky because they recognize the steamroller in the dark tunnel. These are not bad coaches because they don't know the game, they are bad coaches because they are driving talented, smart, hardworking kids away from their programs. Kids that have many achievments in their other sports, that love the game, but won't subject themselves to the coach.

If you want to hold players accountable for their teammates, HS, and community, to what standard do you then hold the coach, a lower one?

I posted the lists from my experience. Im sure all of you have your own experiences, good and bad. Are there bad coaches? Of course there are. When we are not playing well I take the responsibility for that. Are we working on the right things in practice? Are we focusing on this or that too much or not enough. Etc etc. I dont complain or look for excuses I work my butt off and try to find solutions. My oldest son was picked for the All Star team when he was 12. They played 16 games during the All Star season. He never got an ab or played an inning. Did I think that was fair? No. Did I complain about the coaches? Yes. But only to my wife and never around my son or anyone else. I told my son to keep working hard and help the team win anyway he could. He kept a good attitude and did whatever the coaches asked him to do. When he played for me in HS he played JV his Fresh and Soph year. He rode the pine his Jr year and played 3 innings his Sr year while his Freshman brother started every game. Why? Because he was not good enough. Did he complain? No. Did he work hard in practice and do whatever his coaches asked him to do? Yes. Somewhere in life down the road this will pay off for him. When parents sit around and find excuses for their kids and are negative about their coaches how does that impact a young man? I just dont see how it can be positive. When I speak I speak from a coaches perspective. That in no way means that I dont understand a parents posistion and perspective. I understand that there are coaches out there that do not do it the right way. And I understand that this can be a very tough situation for players and parents. The fact is the kids that I have coached over the years that just play the game and have a great work ethic advance in the game. And the ones with excuses and complaints (justified or not) leave it with a bitter taste in their mouth.

EH - Yes all commitments were fullfilled. It was the end of the season.

I know a kid who left team in the middle of a weekend tourney. That is low, imo.

cplz
the coach is there he is a given, good or bad. his ability or lack of is not what i refer to. a player try's out for the team.because he wants to.if he makes a team he makes a choice then to be part of the team or not. if he decides to be a part of the team he's in for the ride. i'm talking about hs baseball. he wouldn't quit an english class because of a bad teacher, would he? you deal with it. these are young adult's and these life lessons are important to them. there is more to hs baseball than baseball.

just my opinion.


i don't mean to sound harsh just my belief.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
he wouldn't quit an english class because of a bad teacher, would he? you deal with it.

20,
Not harsh, just your opinion, and I can respect the right to disagree.

Yes, he would quit and english class and move to another teacher. It happened this year in English with my son.


Coach May,
The debate about good coach/bad coach is not centered around whether your team is playing well at the moment, more than it is how the coach handles the team and players collectively and individually throughout the season.

Having coached a good number of years, I realize how hard it can be to see what other coaches are doing until we have a kid involved in their program. After going through a number of good, bad, and just incompetent (from an x's and o's standpoint) coaches with my sons, my eyes were a bit more open to other programs.

Your point is well taken that regardless of the parents perspective on the situation, it is incumbent upon them not to interject to the point where they poison the relationship between their kids and the coach. That will do nothing healthy for the kid. It's also not unhealthy to point out a flaw of a coach to that kid, when it means preventing the kid from ignoring past experience (kids can have short memories), and keeping them from continued disappointment. That's just pointing out reality. It would be a lie to encourage your kid to work hard because the coach will notice and maybe they'll get a shot if they just keep it up, when everybody knows that you play the same position as a kid the coach shows unwavering favortism for. Being honest with our kids is what we're here for. Telling them to continue to work hard because it will pay off in the long wrong, well, that's just the plain truth. If they never get to play, it will still be a good life lesson for them.

That's really the essence of this discussion, is the fairness and fair treatment of players and teammates. It doesn't happen any more in coaching than it does in the real world, so the lessons to be taught and learned by and from parents, is to portray sports coaching as a real life lesson where not all people are nice, not all situations are fair, but we still must push forward.

Where this has all gone is that the AUTHORATIVE FIGURE , be it a coach, teacher, policeman etc gets no respect.

Excuse me for be old fashioned but we are out of control---who is telling who what?

It sounds like we are coming back to the coach is always right. I just can't agree with that. If we all agree there are good coaches and bad coaches, is the bad coach right? Is the good coach right? We are all human and make mistakes so no coach is right 100% of the time regardless of good or bad. You can say you do what the coach says or you sit. That's fine until all the players transfer to different schools then maybe someone will take notice. Our kids should always show respect for their coaches regardless of what they are feeling. I would never allow my son to disrespect his coach. That is of no use at all and only causes dissension on the team. And should be grounds for kicking the player off the team. However, that still does not make the coach right.
My son gets plenty of playing time but the "team" could be so much better, practices are almost of no help. My son doesn't see a mound or plate until game time yet is expected to start and do well. Which he has done so far not because of his coaches but because he practices with a neighbor on his own.

I'm not sure we're coming back to that. I think Coach May's last post showed a pretty reasonable perspective. I agree that it does no good to badmouth a coach in front of a player no matter what.

Fortunately, whenever I've started to stray in that direction my son has shut me down right away.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Where this has all gone is that the AUTHORATIVE FIGURE , be it a coach, teacher, policeman etc gets no respect.

Excuse me for be old fashioned but we are out of control---who is telling who what?

Good point, TR.

Our kids teach us more than we teach them I really believe that. I know my players over the years have. I listen to them and I ask them what they think we need to focus on in practice. I also ask the upperclassman about younger guys just to get some input. I spent the entire summer and fall watching my youngest son play for the Dirtbags. For the firt time in a long time I was just a parent in the stands and it was fun. But I caught myself one game "What the heck is he doing why in the world did he not bunt then over?'" As soon as I said it I was ashamed of myself. My wife looked at me like I was crazy. I never opened my mouth again. It is just too easy to second guess and get caught up in the moment. My son would have been so upset with me. I to this day have never heard him say a bad word about a team mate or any coach he has ever had. I like it that way.

quote:

to this day I have never heard him say a bad word about a team mate or any coach he has ever had. I like it that way.

There are plenty of individuals who have somehow assumed a "mantle/position of authority" who simply aren't respect-worthy...that's what the "Peter Principle," in part, was about. I've seen and heard of incompent/corrupt/abusive politicians, judges, policemen, teachers, priests, coaches, umpires, you-name-it. Personally, I prefer subscribing to the notion that respect should be "earned." As we all know, positions of authority are NOT always "earned," and, sometimes, even if initially earned, should't be kept.

I'm not advocating "dissing" others, partcularly if mere incompetence is the only issue, but I do advocate avoiding them...blind subservience to an abusive individual isn't something I accept for myself, nor a notion I want to instill in my kids.

quote:

Originally posted by kb2610:
I'm not advocating "dissing" others, partcularly if mere incompetence is the only issue, but I do advocate avoiding them...blind subservience to an abusive individual isn't something I accept for myself, nor a notion I want to instill in my kids.

Will you be my mouthpiece?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Where this has all gone is that the AUTHORATIVE FIGURE , be it a coach, teacher, policeman etc gets no respect.

Excuse me for be old fashioned but we are out of control---who is telling who what?

I don't believe the simple taking of a job warrants the title "authority figure". Authority to do what? Certainly not be unfair and abusive. I think society has gone beyond broad brush labels and wants to view things more individually, which for the most part is healthy. TR, you may have liked it better then, but that genie is long out of the bottle. Just as I hope you would advise your kids when dealing with his coach...You can't change it, so find a way to work with it.

Good for the goose, good for the gander?

TR, IMO "old-fashioned" is great.
It does sometimes appear to be old-fashioned to hold the act of respect in high regard. It is not. I, personally, have observed countless parents and players show great honor and respect toward the people we call coach. "Deserved" or not.
The original post, while appearing to be somewhat humorous, was, in fact disrespectful to the majority of players and parents. Yet, IMO the post was not intentionally disrespectful, just expressed frustration. We have all agreed there are "bad" on both sides of the fence.
In "my house" respect and honor are "cornerstone" values. It is respectful to not judge other people or their "excuses"... as we do not walk in their shoes.
Respect goes both ways.
The overwhelming majority of coaches who post on this site (and especially Coach May, and TR) are invaluable, insightful people whose words mean a great deal to all.

I think the only thing a parent wants is a fair playing field. However, they will always single out one kid to complain about. Bobby is better then him, regardless of the fact that their son is lefthanded and can't be the shortstop. I don't watch practice and never will. I just don't think it is right. That is what as parents we don't get to see. How they practice. I will never speak to a coach about my sons playing time or lack of playing time. He is the one who earns it. He is the one who wants to be to practice early and leave late, the one who wins the pole races. Does he train hard in the off season while other kids are playing nintendo? You betcha. Did he pay for exercise equipment with his own money. Yes. Is he the fastest probably not but he wants to show how much it means to him to play. Does he give his coaches respect? Yes. Does he feel everything is what he knows is right? No. Does he complain? To me, yes to his teammates, NEVER.
Is he getting his at bats and field time. Yes and why because he earned it. Not because I said something to the coach, or worked the snack bar or donated money. Are there kids that don't play at all, yes there are and that may be the problem with parents. He made the team why isn't he playing? Our school kept all the Freshman so there are about 20 kids on the team. How can a coach be fair to all of them. He can't and it puts him in a tough situation when kids shouldn't be there in the first place. This is HS Ball not LL.

I just read my original post again. I do not see anything about it that is humorous. It was not posted out of frustration. It was not intended in anyway to be disrespecfull to anyone. If the shoe fits then you have to wear it. If it does not you dont. If anyone here does not believe that those lists do not exist then you are not being honest with yourself. The post was intended to make the point that excuses will not overcome anything but breed more excuses. We do not have any players on this list because if they were we would not have them on our team. Our parents are awesome and because of this we have great kids. We have 11 or 14 varsity players on the honor roll. The other 3 just missed it. We have 3 jrs ranked in the top of the 08 class by PG Crosschecker. We have 1 sr ranked #54 in the 07 class by PG Crosschecker. We have never had a player that had the ability and work ethic not play at the next level. We have won 8 conf titles in the last 10 years and finished 2nd place the other two years. We are currently the #6 Ranked team in the state of NC. We have alot of pride in the way we do things and the type of kids we have in our program. Im going to post another Top 10 list on coaches. And yes it is real. Believe it or not.

Where is the humor ?


It is a coach posting the plusses and negatives

I have spoken with Coach May a number of times and let say this--my kids can play for him anytime