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Top D1 or Top D2

Brn2HitBrn2Hit10+ posts
A coach at a top SEC D1 is offering a recruited walk on spot saying that he has no money. Their starting 3rd baseman, 2nd baseman, catcher, an outfielder and a closer are all walk ons, I do not know who was left to get all the money, but that is what I am told.

A coach at a top D2 (highly ranked) is offering a 100% tuition leaving me room and board out of my pocket.

The D1 coach says that I am crazy to not take his offer and that playing in a top D2 will be like playing JUCO ( I am a JUCO Sophomore ). The D1 coach says that my chances of getting drafted for more money will be much better at his program than at the top D2. I know that there are many scouts at the D2 school regularly.

Is there any good reason to consider the D1 offer.
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TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
IMO, you cannot compare any top D2 program to any SEC program. The SEC is one of if not the strongest conference in college baseball.
If you have pro potential you will be drafted, the difference is where you go most likely may get you drafted higher. That should be a consideration if that is what is your goal.
However, regardless, your decision should be based upon where you will be more comfortable, which place is the right fit, which school offers the major you are looking for (remember that is important too) regardless of the division.
Don't feel insulted that you were asked to walk on, regardless of whether you receive scholarship money or not, you still have to earn your playing time.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
Brn2Hit - interesting but nice problem to have.

The SEC coach is probably telling you the truth. Many of the top programs have much of their money tied up in pitching and after that in a few of their star hitters. Although this offer seems tempting, there is more risk involved about how much playing time you would get.

If the top D2 is someone like Tampa or Florida Southern, I don't see how you can turn that down. With the financial comittment, the coach is basically telling you that you would see significant playing time. At a program like that, you would have the opportunity to get scouted and drafted. Very difficult to get drafted if you are sitting the bench in the SEC although it has not been determined if you would be a bench player - there is just more risk there.

I can certainly understand a competitive player saying I want to go play with and against the best college players in the country but the top D2 offer may be too good to pass up, still provide top level competition, a chance to win a national title, and still provide you next level exposure opportunties.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
The D1 coach is right. The bigger the name - the better chance you have of getting drafted and getting a bigger signing bonus.

But you have to actually play the game first.
I can tell you countless stories of big-name players from big-name schools - that got drafted - played like **** - and then got sent home.

Your focus should be on playing alot, performing well and winning.

If not - you probably wont have to worry about draft money - regardless of what school you go to.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by itsinthegame:
The D1 coach is right. The bigger the name - the better chance you have of getting drafted and getting a bigger signing bonus.

But you have to actually play the game first.
I can tell you countless stories of big-name players from big-name schools - that got drafted - played like **** - and then got sent home.

Your focus should be on playing alot, performing well and winning.

If not - you probably wont have to worry about draft money - regardless of what school you go to.

I am pretty sure you and I are saying the same thing Big Grin
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
Brn:

My take is different. If you have the chance to have a chance to compete on the biggest stage possible, go for it. If it does not work out, you can always then go to the D2. And since you would be dropping down in divisions, I don't think you would have to sit out. In many ways, you have a no-lose situation.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
jemaz - I normally see things that way as well but what swayed my mind here is he said top D2. That is high-level college baseball. It isn't like he would not develop as a player or experience the joys of a winning situation.

I don't understand your point about him him going back to the D2. He goes back as a senior? I assume that coach will have recruited by then and there no longer would be that option. If he chooses the SEC at this point, to me that would be his final stop for all practical purposes.

If playing pro is the goal, then itsinthegame is absoulutely right. You will not get drafted unless you play. One situation is almost a guarantee of playing and the other is far more nebulous especially since no money is involved. Of course, if he goes into the SEC and plays, his chances are even higher - no doubt. The whole issue is will he play.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Your a JUCO soph. You have 2 years left. Do you really want to take the chance that you will end up on the bench at this D1? If you do what has the school lost? They have 0 money invested in you. What have they lost if you end up on the bench?

Go where they are actually showing you that you will get 100% chance to show what you can do. The place that is offering you 100%. This is just my opinion. Yes if you go to this major D1 school and star you will be in a good posistion. But if you go to the D2 and star you will be as well. So ask yourself about the risk your taking. And then ask yourself if that risk is worth the potential gain. And in my opinion it is not.

Only you can make this decision. But when a coach offers a kid 100% he is saying you will get every opportunity to prove you can not play. When a kid is offered a roster spot and told he will get a chance to prove himself if is being told he will get a chance to prove he can play. Very different thing. Much different.

When the D2 100% guy goes into a weekend series and goes ofer no problem he's our guy he will be fine. When the roster spot D1 guy does the same thing. He goes to the back of the line and every other guy on the team told the same thing going in will get their shot before you get another one. And if one of them goes off before you get your next shot you never will get that next shot. Thats just the reality of it.

No one gets scouted sitting the bench. You have to play in order to show you can play.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
Your a JUCO soph. You have 2 years left. Do you really want to take the chance that you will end up on the bench at this D1? If you do what has the school lost? They have 0 money invested in you. What have they lost if you end up on the bench?

Go where they are actually showing you that you will get 100% chance to show what you can do. The place that is offering you 100%. This is just my opinion. Yes if you go to this major D1 school and star you will be in a good posistion. But if you go to the D2 and star you will be as well. So ask yourself about the risk your taking. And then ask yourself if that risk is worth the potential gain. And in my opinion it is not.

Only you can make this decision. But when a coach offers a kid 100% he is saying you will get every opportunity to prove you can not play. When a kid is offered a roster spot and told he will get a chance to prove himself if is being told he will get a chance to prove he can play. Very different thing. Much different.

When the D2 100% guy goes into a weekend series and goes ofer no problem he's our guy he will be fine. When the roster spot D1 guy does the same thing. He goes to the back of the line and every other guy on the team told the same thing going in will get their shot before you get another one. And if one of them goes off before you get your next shot you never will get that next shot. Thats just the reality of it.

No one gets scouted sitting the bench. You have to play in order to show you can play.

Outstanding post!

Don't think the D2 guys aren't getting drafted or getting paid. Robbie Shields signed out of Florida Southern last year in the 3rd round for 315,000. itsinthegame's son was a D2 All-American and signed with the Blue Jays his junior year. I'll be honest and say there are not as many D2 guys signed but for guys who can play, the opportunity is there. The key is to play.
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
Coach May:

I guess I am more risk-oriented than most. I would take the chance, although I agree that your advice is sound. Here is where I will add something, though. I have seen lots of guys from top college programs sit the bench and still get a legitimate professional opportunity, whether as an undrafted free agent or even as a relatively high draft pick. The latest example is CJ Retherford out of Arizona State. He has done very well in the White Sox? organization and had a great showing in the Arizona Fall League last year.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
The OP is finishing his second JUCO year---this says he is draft eligible---what are the possibilities of being drafted this summer?

For the me fact that at the top D-2 he will play regularly says go there IF NOT DRAFTED THIS SUMMER

Additionally you have the $$$ factor--what money are you receiving at the SEC school? You know what you have at the D-2 school.


There is a lot to consider here--let us not make this so simple
B Brickhouse100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by jemaz:
Brn:

My take is different. If you have the chance to have a chance to compete on the biggest stage possible, go for it. If it does not work out, you can always then go to the D2. And since you would be dropping down in divisions, I don't think you would have to sit out. In many ways, you have a no-lose situation.


It is my understanding that you need to sit out a year whenever you transfer from one four year NCAA school to another. It does not matter if you drop from D1 to D2.
OnWabanaOnWabana100+ posts
quote:
I know that there are many scouts at the D2 school regularly.


I don't have any first-hand experience in this kind of situation, but the fact that there are scouts at the games regularly is very good.

However, if you were to get a chance to start for a top SEC school, you would probably look back and laugh that you ever considered the D2.

Good luck with your decision. No one else can make it for you.

-----------------------------
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
I know 2 guys who went small D1. Both saw little play time. Both left and stared at a D11. One was drafted and released after 1.5 years in the minors. The other a catcher who led his D11 team in BA hitting well over 400.
Another was offer book money by a D1 back in the day. He went D11 and is currently staring as a weekend starter. Odds are he would not have done well st a D1. The D11 gave him more opportunity to play and succeed .
It is a tough call and you have to take a realistic look at what you bring to the table. I have seen players on both sides of the situation.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I sat at milb practice today, there are many guys sitting on the benches waiting for their time to play, no different than in any college program. Many of these guys will be released in a few weeks, not because they aren't good, but because there is just too many in front of them.

Take the draft out of the equation, go where you will have the oportunity to play your last two years of eligibilty and earn a degree.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Brn2Hit:
Thanks for the feedback. I am pretty sure that I will end up going the D2 route where the coach told me stuff like being an impact player. Thank you for your opinions. My goal is to get drafted, so I need to play.


Don't confuse playing time with getting drafted. There are hundreds of college players that come to the plate everyday in college, they don't get drafted.

You will get scout exposure being in Florida, no doubt, but have you done your homework about players being drafted from that program?

I have to agree with TR on one point he made, if you have pro potential at this time(second year JUCO), why aren't scouts talking to you now?

If you really want to play pro ball, you need to consider which coach at which school develops players to move to the pro level. If you have pro potential you will make your way to the lineup wherever you go. This is a tough one, no one can tell you what to do, follow your own gut feeling.

Good luck.
Brn2HitBrn2Hit10+ posts
Did I say that pro scouts were not talking to me? There are at least 5 teams looking at me now that I have filled out paperwork on. I hope to be drafted this year, what round, I don't know...maybe not at all, which is why I need to be ready to play at a school if it does not go my way.

A bunch of players have been drafted that attended this program.

The goal I have is real, I want to make every decision the best I can.
Last edited by Brn2Hit
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
The coach with 100% invested in you believes in you. He will give you every chance to prove you deserve that 100%. In his mind you are very important to his program and will be an impact player for him. If not he would not be offering you what he is.

Go to the D2 program and take care of business. And good luck I hope you tear it up and get a chance to play at the next level. When I sit down to watch a professional game I could careless what college they came from. And no one else does either. Good luck
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
You've played 2 years of college ball.
You want to move on to pro ball.


If you can win a starting position as a junior at the D1 you will be in better shape for the draft.

If you don't start until you are a senior you will be in worse shape for the draft than if you were to be drafted as a junior from the D2 unless you put up big time numbers at the D1.

If you go to the D2 and play you'll be in decent shape for the draft after your junior season assuming you perform well.

Only you, and perhaps your coaches, know how good you are, what risks you are willing to take and what your chances of doing well at the D1 school are.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
brn2hit,

You seem very serious - and that is great. And you are getting some great perspective here.

If I may - let me give you a little more real life stuff to think abut as you make your decision.

1) If you dont play - the only people that may be talking about how great you are and how high your ceiling is will be Baseball America - and other assorted media rags. That hype may help you - but it probably wont win the day.

2) Assuming you get to the next level - noone there really cares what school you came from. You can either perform well - or not. If you play well - you will live another day - and if you dont - you will be sent home.

In fact - the majority of the players at the next level did not play college ball at all.

3) Playing with a wood bat is the real deal. Playing with aluminum rocket launchers is akin to weekend beer softball games. You will realize that very quickly. The difference is very significant.

Make sure you go somewhere where you can show your stuff.

Best of luck to you.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
TPM,

The Wall Street Journal did a great article on this subject last spring.

I dont know about the Cardinals - but the fact is that less than 50% of MLB players have ever attended a 4 year college.

As for graduating college - forget it. There were about 40 college graduates that played in the MLB last year - out of about 750 players. And the 40 includes managers and coaches.

The % attending college have risen since the 1940's - at one point - in the 1950's - the % was as low as approx. 25%

An interesting fact - the Carolina Panthers had more college graduates on their football team than all of the MLB baseball teams combined.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by itsinthegame:

In fact - the majority of the players at the next level did not play college ball at all.


Hey, I never said anything about graduation rates, or where they went to college (2 year vs 4 year), I was just wondering where this statistic came from.

So all I did was give an example that many players have played college ball, and that is where they were last seen when drafted.
Last edited by TPM
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
TPM,

The Wall Street Journal has a great section called "The Count". They do all sorts of analyses on all aspects of professional sports.

Some of it can be accessed for free on the web. I read it from time to time as it is a great source of statistical analyses.

Recently I read an article on the "demographic" history of MLB players. It was really interesting. They went all the way back to the 1940's.

Alot of interesting stuff.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I am not disagreeing with you about the fact that many pro players did not graduate. There are many playing in the pro levels (not necessarily MLB) that have attended college, at one time or another, whether it be 1 year or 5. I am not surprised that more players on a football team have graduated than in MLB, but that is how their system works and the NFL strongly supports and assists their players in getting their degrees, MLB does not and couldn't care less. Something to think about when considering the pro option.

YGD, the MLB scholarship is offered to every player that is drafted, not all players (in fact many) take advantage after they leave. There are many players that turn down the draft to enter college or finish, most has to do with the amount of money they receive.



In fact, I did indicate to the OP in one of my posts that going to college and where he will earn his degree should take preference over where he will get the most draft exposure.
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