Top Pitching Coaches

Bill Copp, the duecedoc!

Where does Mr Copp give lesson's?

Bill Copp...absolutely. He knows how to relate to kids, is in it for all the right reasons (to see each kid succeed) and he is unbelievably well respected by many, many college coaches. I can't say enough about Bill.

Sam Sorce his biggest proof is his son danny. Many of u probly know that danny is not a hard thrower but is dominant on the mound. His dad taught him everything he knew and that is the reason that he made a record number appearances in the MVC as a freshman.

Dad, I agree. Jim Sakas is without a doubt the most knowledgable instructor I have come across. He is a great teacher of mechanics as well as conditioning. Simply the best.

Glad we finally have a topic on pitching coaches. And I will throw in my 2 cent's worth.
1.Tom Doyle ,Triton College,Now a Scout,Indians.
2.Billy Milos, Twins Scout
3.Scott Nelson,former Pro Pitcher,Owner of Strikes
4.Sam Sorce,Miami hall of famer.
5.Bill Copp,former pro.Just started at Strikes,runs a great summer travel team,and a mets scout.
6.Jim Sakas, North Shore Academy.
Not sure if Doyle or Milos give lesson's any more? You could not go wrong bringing your son to any of these fine men.

Jake Brooks----Playball USA

Dave Geevy----somewhere in northern burbs

KEN WESTRAY from UNIV ILLINOIS.... loooooong time phillies minor league pitching coach

no offense but didnt bill copp leave the pros because of numerous arm surgeries?
just wondering why people would want someone who has persistent injuries teaching their kids?

Woddoggy...did you ever think that maybe since he has been there before, he knows what causes certain arm injuries??? From my experiences, he understands pitching mechanics very well and he doesn't overuse his pitchers just to get a W!!! As been stated many times before, he is in it for the right reasons.

wogdoggy:

I'm not sure of your information...I'm not doubting it...it may be true.

Even if it is true, Bill would be in a great position to teach pitchers how not to damage or endanger their arms. That's the kind of guy Bill is.

He's not about winning at all costs, he's about bringing players along successfully and safely to the next level.

If he were amassing a reputation as a coach that mistreats young arms then that would go counter to what he is trying to accomplish.

Question...the pitchers who have played for Bill recently, have they experienced arm problems as a result of his coaching and instruction?

Your concern, wogdoggy, depends on the answer to the question I have posed.

Let's hear from those who have been involved.

In a recent official visit, we were introduced to the pitching coach who was a high draft pick and pitched very well early in his career in the majors. He suffered arm injuries that cut his career short and is back working at his alma mater with his old college coach. The head coach believes his pitching coaches arm injuries were due to the fact that the major league pitching coach forced his player to change his delivery. This pitching coach now teaches the style that the head coach had originally taught him and they have had good success.

The example here portrays how an individual, in spite of his beliefs, may be forced into doing something he believes is incorrect in order to advance his career.

I'm not saying this is the case with Bill Copp as I don't know, but I am saying that rushing to judgement is patently unfair.

My choice chooses not to post on this board (with rare exceptions) because he doesn't like the spotlight. He let's his players speak for him. He runs a business giving lessons, coaching teams, mentoring, running clinics and showcases with college coaches, being the area scout for the Astros and unequalled college assistance for the players that he both trains and coaches for Top Tier.

Todd Fine is recognized as one of the finest pitching coaches anywhere. His reputation with college coaches around the country is impeccable. Coaches call Todd when they're looking for a particular player, and trust his evaluation. Maybe when you're a top dog it brings out some comments from time to time in a veiled attempt to detract from one individual or group and to try and elevate another. I'll never understand why. But heck, it is what it is. However, when your resume includes coaching players like Bowden, Graffy, Powers, Benson, Smalley, Sommers and so many more what is there left to talk about? The list of pitchers that have worked with Todd or played for him and their success both in high school, college and now professional is quite impressive. If there are any doubters, just check out the Top Tier website and see who he's coached, who he's trained, where they went to college and, if you know them, simply ask them what Todd is all about. Great teacher, great coach and a down to earth guy. He won't blow smoke up your butt and tell you what you'd like to hear, he will tell you how it is.

As for Coach Sorce, my son played for him only one summer and would probably run through a wall if Sam asked him to. I don't know if he'll ever play for a BETTER coach or teacher anywhere. The summer my son played with Praire Gravel was one he will never forget. Casey Mac, Pete Cappetta, Grant Fillipitch, Mick Doyle and on and on. Fantastic group that continues to shine.

Here is a question. Why is it that the number one prospect (Casey Crosby) according to Prep Baseball Report started taking pitching lessons from Bill this fall and pitched for the Orioles in Jupiter? It it because Bill and Casey are both lefthanded? LOL!!!

I wouldn't know. But I'd say that a player like Casey Crosby deserved to pitch in Jupiter, and his Top Tier team did not go. He isn't the only player to find a team so that they could participate in this tournament. Actually, it is fairly common.

Rosy, I always enjoy your post and this is not a knock on Todd Fine as I understand he is a very good pitching coach. My only question is concerning all the players that you named that he coached. Could you break it down for us a little further, how many years did he coach all the players that you mentioned was it for one year or did he coach them from 12 years old till college? Because a program's kids have some success it usually isn't because of one coach unless they had that player for a long time. Once again throwing them together for a summer team is great for the exposure, but who did the kids work with during the off season? Once again I do realize that Todd works with many kids froma variety of areas.

2bagger,

Good question. No, the players I named either played for Todd for one year, or in the case of Connor Powers, Joe Benson and others have played on the 18U team when they were still HS juniors, meaning that they played for Todd two seasons. I never claimed that he has been their's or anyone's pitching coach since they started playing ball, but he had a great influence on them at a time when it was most significant. These players like most, were certainly helped by other men whether they be little league coaches, HS coaches or others. Players that have played for Todd have trained with him in the offseason as well. I know that he works with players for many years throught their baseball journey.

This is a thread about pitching coaches, and the pitchers that have worked with Todd either by training with him, or playing for him are his biggest advocates. BTW, this includes far more pitchers than have ever played for Top Tier. Fine trains many, many ballplayers who play for different high schools, different legion teams and different summer teams. Being a summer team coach is really a small part of Todd's resume.

I'll put my two cents in regarding Bill Copp. If anyone thinks that because he had arm problems that it somehow diminshes his "worth" as a pitching coach, they are sadly wrong. First off, there is no such thing as "perfect mechanics." The act of throwing a ball overhand, is in itself, unnatural. If there was such a thing as perfect mechanics, everyone would be teaching it and no one would ever have arm problems. Mike Bowden's mechanics have been in question by people-in-the-know, and I am not so sure that anyone here would suggest to him to alter what he does. Tom House has made a lot of money selling his material, and then miraculously, he changes his mind as says he was wrong, so now buy his new tapes/books. There is no magic carrot out there. Pitchers can pick up different things from different people. Some things may work for one pitcher and not for another, the great coaches, suggest things for kids to try- they have a "bag of tricks" to pass on. Bill Copp is that man.

I'll put in my 2 cents on this. My son has benefited from working with a few pitching coaches, and they have been darn good for the most part. He worked with Todd Fine for a winter and I thought Todd was outstanding. Whether he works with a pitcher on a continuing basis or just once or twice, I'd bet he would give the pitcher something they can put in their bank of baseball and pitching knowledge, as well as making them a better pitcher physically. Todd has one thing that (along with other things) I think stands out and is really a great thing. He doesn't candy-coat his opinion or what he has to say to the kid. If your son has been allowed to grow to the point where he can take care of himself and be treated as a young man this is a great thing. I think Todd can be quite inspiring. As Rosy said, Todd will not blow smoke up your butt but if you want an honest assessment of where your son is and what he needs to do Todd is one of the guys who can really help.

Bill Copp has the respect of many good baseball people and from conversations I've had, he really does "do it for the right reason." That you can learn much from another's experiences is a testament to their ability to teach. You won't go wrong with either one.

The fact that you may be an Illinois Oriole or a Top Tier person has nothing to do with how good of coaches these guys are, and it's clear that some of the comments are coming from exactly that perspective. There is no ying and yang regarding Fine and Copp.....both good coaches and that's all there is to it.

quote:

Originally posted by FastballDad:

The fact that you may be an Illinois Oriole or a Top Tier person has nothing to do with how good of coaches these guys are, and it's clear that some of the comments are coming from exactly that perspective. There is no ying and yang regarding Fine and Copp.....both good coaches and that's all there is to it.

Well said FBD.

Wogdoggy,

No offense taken, it is a very legitimate question. I will do my best to answer it for you.

Yes, I was forced to leave the game due to elbow and shoulder surguries. My elbow was a fratured bone chip that lodged in the elbow joint. A calcium deposit of a larger nature, not from bad mechanics, but from usage. Understand I pitched for near a year with my elbow sore, actually when the deposit fractured that is when I had to go down. So over the course of this year, I am referring the pain to a different area, my shoulder.. Thus a year later shoulder problems. But boy did my elbow feel better.

Tough call for a young player to make, or at least it was for me. Here I am in pro ball moved up from A to AAA my first full season, Pittsburghs top prospect, All Star start under my belt, knowing that there are about 150 pitchers in our organazation who wanted my job... I thought it was something I could work through, like pitchers always do. Or so I thought.

Things over the last 20 years have come so far, heck ,back when I threw pitchers never lifted weights. We were told it would bulk us up and make us tight. I physically was not a real strong kid. So if you combine lack of strength with lack of brains, you get your answer to why I broke down.

If you can somehow relate to this senario, I am 22, worked my whole life and dreamed to get to my ultimate goal of the big leagues. Syd Thrift (our GM at the time )flys in, tells me my next start is at Shea Stadium. Four and a 1/3rd innings later I took a long walk into the office in Richmond Virginia AAA and had to tell Syd that I was unable to lift my arm, thus unable to make my debut.

Its was a feeling that drives me to teach my guys to listen to their bodies and to get themselves as strong as they can regardless of their position. One of my major concerns of my pitchers is their health. I know how it feels not to be able to shampoo your hair using the throwing arm. I wouldnt want any of them to make the same mistakes I made.

Weirdest thing about the story is I was sort of right all along, a very good friend of mine was brought up from AA to make my start. He shut out the 89 Mets 1-0 that night. Rick Reed never threw another pitch in the minors. One of those ****ed if I do and ****ed if I don't?lol..

I'd like to add a name that only coaches during the high school season but is always mentioned in our area with regards to pitching. Mike Waldo is fantastic. I'm friends with Mike and really respect his work habits, integrity and enthusiam for what he does. Go all the way back when Edwardsville was making it to state in the 80s and you will note that Mike was the pitching coach there. He was there with Bill Funkhouser (Tim's Dad), Tom Pile and now Tim Funkhouser who is the present coach. Note the trips to state and the respect given Edwardsville's pitching staff year in and out and you'll have to also respect this man.

And another thing,

since we are talking about blowing smoke up the behind.
Rosey, 2 bagger brings up a great point and you avoided two of the three biggest names on your list. Bowden and Crosby...
How many innings combined did Mike Bowden and Crosby throw for you? Keep in mind now that I know both very well. Mike from my town, and he actually pitched for a Pro and HS teammate of mine in Bostons organazation this Summer. I only ask this because I have heard you refer to both as "your guys". anxiously awaiting your response, or maybe have blowhard or playhard or whoever he goes by respond. (your director of player development)

At no point in this thread was the name of a team mentioned. It was on pitching coaches not resumes or teams...
But it seems it always goes there...It did because you took it there..again..

The whole whos the best is real old and redundant. In fact I cringe when someone gives me a compliment because I know where its leading on the site.
In fact,
My first reponse to this site was done only because I was seeing some of the smoke being blown around here.

And whats small on someones resume might be whats really important to someone elses.

smoke has been blowing up serveral people's rear ends in the last few months, not just one!

DD,

No need to get personal or defensive now. That was not my intent. I thought I answered 2baggers question to the best of my ability. The thread is about pitching coaches and as we often read here, you're one of the best.

I re-read my posts and could not find one reference to any player being one of "your guys". No one is my guy except my son. I'm not a coach, recruiter or equipment manager. I go to games and root for my son's team, like any other Dad.

Now, enough about pitching coaches for this guy. Taking the wife to see the new 007.

duecedoc,

Very well said. I appreciate you for answering the question about your injuries as honestly as you did. That was a tough break (literally and figuratively)! It makes what you do for young men that much more impressive.



Does it matter "who is the best" of anything? An instructor, like a college, should be a good "fit" for the student...it doesn't matter if the subject at hand is pitching, hitting, piano, or math--whoever can convey the information to the student so that the student can understand it and have confidence while doing it is "who is the best" for that person.

My children have taken all kinds of lessons from all kinds of instructors....and the ones from whom they have had the most success are not on too many radar screens. But in my opinion and their's, those are "the best instructors"--- for them.

The topic was never about "the best" pitching coaches. It is about "top" pitching coaches. It was intended to let people know what coaches in different areas would help young pitchers develope. It is the competiveness of certain people who say "this coach is better than that coach". Obviously, there is no answer to that question. There are many top coaches who can teach kids to improve in a safe and productive way, and they have been named. I am sure there are others. I used to hear about a guy from Fox Valley named RC, but I don't remeber his last name. someone might know him as wel.

That would be RC Lichtenstein. Great person as well.

Fungomaster,

There's a certain hitting instructor that also likes to "blow smoke" in the same direction, only with the chosen hitters he works with. Also uses four to five different screen names on this website. You can tell by the same name references he uses in a topic, his gramatical errors, and his sentence structures. When he hasn't heard his name mentioned in awhile, he creates some information that 'name drops' his organization, or himself. Sad, really sad!!! Oh, and please don't think of that as "good marketing" either. If your that good, people will all ready know that.

Have worked with R.C. in the past at Fox Valley and he does a great job with both the mechanical and mental aspects of pitching.

Duece,

You have a p.m.

Fungomaster:

Ahh...those were the days my friend...

We were lucky to find deuce just as he was getting back into it… Picked him cause he was the only lefty pitcher available… Talk about throwing darts with the lights out and hitting the bulls-eye… Helped my son work through an injury… Scary getting back on the bump… more of a head game… I can’t say enough about DD… Mechanics, mental, or just teaching the game, what to do next, what to throw and when, how to handle a hitter… Spent two whole lessons on a pick-off move to first… Great stuff… The kid’s deadly with a runner on first, go ahead, just try it (thanks deuce)… Son had the opportunity to play several years with the Deuce… the dugout stories should be written down and published… Old School… In my book one to the top pitching coaches in the area, if not the best… there are soooo many things that make up a great pitching coach… it’s not just mechanics… One last thing, his character is “sterling on silver”… Character Counts!

Rumor has it Deuce is spending his Sundays at Strikes…

I am not trying to slag or inflame anyone… not trying to get caught in the fray… Please feel free to send me a “PM” if you want to take this discussion off-line.

Bill is tops in my book!

Woody,
I’m gonna date myself but… I remember those commercials on TV… in black and white… “Cigar, Cigarettes, Tiparello…”

lsc59,
You have a PM.

We get this question alot from new visitors to FVSA. The appeal from the parent is to identify the instructor with the "best" credentials first. While directing the best fit determined by the players needs, several criterion comes into play. Most coaches in the industry teach similiar concepts. The higher up the "food chain", guys like Tom House and Dr. Mike Marshall, deal with concepts that are so over the top, that "some information" that an instructor may have absorbed is of little help or could cause harm without all of the details. The basics are the absolutes that are taught by most: balance, straight path of the ball to the plate, developing a downward plane, long-arm action, etc. The difference is the ability to draw from the instructor's experience (regardless of their personal success, "handed-ness" L or R,injury status, etc.) and develop a trusting relationship with the student. A strong communicator with personality, dedicated to the loooong-term success of the student, and willingness to teach the student to be his own best "pitching coach" when the game is on the line, making necessary mechanical and emotional adjustments under game conditions, are the best coaches. Very few get to teach or coach without being of sound character. The guys mentioned Bill Copp, Todd Fine and RC Lichtenstein are amongst the best. On a night that RC teaches at FVSA he's surrounded by Buzz Capra, Bill Campbell, Diamond back scout Mike Daughtry, travel coach and associate scout, Andy Bisceglia, and former Tiger minor-leaguer Jerry Donahue. My favorite, Ben Erickson, who has worked with my 9-yearold and although lacks the "creds", has the PATIENCE that many others lack to start from scratch, conveying the absolutes to someone just starting to show the same passion for the game as his "old man"!
My favorites teaching elsewhere:
Todd Genke St. Charles North
Justin Kees ECC
Terry Ayers Max-Mcook
Dan Schatzeder former GrandSlam Streamwood
Rachaad Stewart ProPlayer
Ken Raines Pro PLayer
Bill Copp Strikes/Cangelosi/IL Orioles
...and the many others I haven't met yet who act in the best interests to get their students the best chance of success at the next level!

Bill Downing
President
Fox Valley Sports Academy

Thanks for the post Bill.Foxvalley is loaded with fantastic instructors.my son has worked with bisceglia and daughtry.Both guys are excellent and have helped my kid considerably in just a few lessons.Great academy full of fantastic instructors.

My players have learned a great deal from the following pitching instructors:

Ed Stearns- Orland Park Sparks
John Sabatino- Ultimate Sports Academy

They are never given the credit that they deserve because they are not a part of the network that posts on this site. If you have a son that needs help, especially with the mental approach to pitching, contact Ed or John.

Gus...

Great to give those guys credit for doing a fine job.

Let's not worry too much about who gets credit on this site and the "network" that posts here. It may be fair to say they never get the credit they deserve here, but The Illinois Forum is hardly the end-all as to who is a good coach and who isn't. There are scads of good coaches out there doing a fine job who never or rarely get mention on this board.

quote:

Originally posted by FastballDad:
.....Let's not worry too much about who gets credit on this site and the "network" that posts here.....

FB, that means I can't worry about you.