Trade Off: Baseball vs. Academics?

I see you are in California.  Don't rule out high academic D2 schools.  Cal Poly Pomona and many of the UC schools are high academic and play some very good baseball.  From what I understand, it is a really good balance of academics and baseball.  

Unless a kid is a top prospect stud isn’t the idea of college to put himself in the best position to succeed in life? 

Is Option 3 likely to be an Ivy?

what is his desired major / career direction?

Santa Rosa JC is ranked #3 National Academic. #6 Baseball..

Bob

9and7dad posted:

Is Option 3 likely to be an Ivy?

Yes, he's applied to Ivies among others.  Clearly if he got into an Ivy, he would not pass that up and Baseball would probably be over.  Still a long shot, though.  

I agree with CabbageDad.  What is his major and what does he want to do in 5-6 years?  I'd take the long view on this.   I have 3 sons who played baseball and all three chose academics first over baseball opportunities.  None of them were going to be drafted....they knew this.   It was their choice,  and partly their money to invest in their future.

My second son chose to go to a D1 majoring in mechanical engineering at an ACC school.  He had the opportunity to go to a recruited D3 school to play baseball, but passed it over.   He focused on academics at the D1 and was a part time bullpen catcher (thanks Prepster!) for the ACC baseball team until he couldn't do it anymore due to academic demands.   He would do it again in a heartbeat.. 

Third son chose to go to a D1, and plays on the club baseball team.  He also had the opportunity to go to a D3 school to play baseball but passed it up because of his intended major (wants to be a Federal Marshall).   He would also make the same selection again.  

First son had many options with baseball and college but eventually chose the best academic fit and rigor.  It just happened to be a D1 Ivy.

Good luck!

Does the D1 have a club team. That is an option.

Apply to all schools he was going to apply anyway. A decision doesn't need to be made (deposit) until late Spring. Make the decision then; a lot can happen between now and then, some bad (injury) some good (late blooming).

Let him contemplate the various scenarios - which might range from a walkon sit on the bench situation to a contributor. Players survive the end of baseball (parents may take a bit more time to recover) and the right college will provide so many new interesting challenges and opportunities which are just as important to his growth. My son's roommates were all HS athletes in various sports, none played at the NCAA level, most found a sport outlet in club or intramural the rest found new areas of interest.

i would not trade off a college which best suits his interests/career choices for the uncertainty of baseball. 

My S's career is long over. His best friends are his teammates at his various stops AND his college buds who were not players. His interests today are his work, friends, golf, and investing. He picked the highest academic college he could with a world class network. It worked for him; it worked for his college buds.

My 2018 and I visited a top JUCO program this past summer. They made him an offer. Traveled back home and started talking with those who had gone the JUCO route. One of the reasons that he chose not to consider JUCO was academics. He was told by several that classes were easier then classes in high school and that coaches leaned on players to keep it simple with academics. Have to remember, NJCAA do not operate under the same rules as NCAA. The coaches at the JUCO we visited were honest about player demands. In the fall, their pitchers only had 2 days off before end of 1st semester.

I don't doubt that there are some who go the JUCO route and transfer to high academic schools but it appeared to us, at the time, that academics were not a priority at all.

Just our experience with one school and talking with several players who had attended that same school.

Goosegg posted:

Apply to all schools he was going to apply anyway. A decision doesn't need to be made (deposit) until late Spring. Make the decision then; a lot can happen between now and then, some bad (injury) some good (late blooming).

Let him contemplate the various scenarios - which might range from a walkon sit on the bench situation to a contributor. Players survive the end of baseball (parents may take a bit more time to recover) and the right college will provide so many new interesting challenges and opportunities which are just as important to his growth. My son's roommates were all HS athletes in various sports, none played at the NCAA level, most found a sport outlet in club or intramural the rest found new areas of interest.

i would not trade off a college which best suits his interests/career choices for the uncertainty of baseball. 

My S's career is long over. His best friends are his teammates at his various stops AND his college buds who were not players. His interests today are his work, friends, golf, and investing. He picked the highest academic college he could with a world class network. It worked for him; it worked for his college buds.

Thanks for the perspective.  Your approach is going to be the plan.

I agree apply to all now and turn down offers later. See all the cards first.   The question I have  however; is unless a kid is really set on a particular school or a major not offered elsewhere and baseball is not very important  why not an academic D2/D3 or NAIA for that matter (I.e. Stanford's neighbor Menlo college for business). There are academic D3's  that rival  Ivies / UC's etc in academics and networking. And the baseball can be competitive. It doesn't have to be an either or.   Now if they wanted a social life, that is a different story. 

If the career goal includes obtaining a graduate or advanced professional program surprisingly an academic D3 may actually be more beneficial. 

https://www.collegetransitions...feeders-phd-programs

AD2018 posted:

My 2018 will be facing his college decision shortly.  Like a lot of players, he had aspirations for a High Academic D1.  Reality set in and none of those came through.  So, his choices are:  1) High Academic--D3 w/Baseball, 2) JUCO--w/Baseball (starter) or 3) High Academic--D1 w/no Baseball (would try to walk on...but recognize it's a long shot).

Right now, he's not 100% sure yet about the D3 schools and JUCO could be tough to swallow academically (he has a 1450 SAT).

Question:  What are the experiences for those who went with option 3)?  Does the player regret the decision if Baseball ends?  Was the trade-off for academics and a prestigious school worth it?  Would the player make the same choice again?  

My son was in this exact position 2 years ago. He went with the High D1 no baseball route and has never looked back. The thing you need to consider is what Majors is he considering? Engineering, Bio etc... My son is a mechanical engineering major. He says there is no way he would be able to maintain the grades he has now if he were also playing baseball. He has learned to adapt to no longer playing baseball (me too) but has filled that void with other activities. This is a kid that just loved to play. We always knew that at one point it would come down to deciding on playing baseball or going to a High academic school. It would be great if he found the right fit but does not always work out that way.         

It really depends on two things and the only one that can answer that is your son. One what does he want to do with his life. For a lot of careers school choice doesn't matter but for some it's very important. Same for some graduate schools. My son wants to be a pediatrician. He's been told by every doctor he's talked to about it that his undergraduate school is irrelevant and that's it ok to make his choice about baseball.

Second how much does he love baseball. I chose athletics over education. I went where I could play two sports. I didn't care about the school at all. I took gimmy classes and just stayed eligible. After my athletic career was over I went back for the education. I would have been miserable if I didn't play as long as I could have. My doctor in HS told me "you have many many years to further your education but only a limited time to play sports." That stuck with me and I've never regretted the decision. 

It may not be popular advice to some but I advise most to at least consider it. 

Scotty83 posted:

It really depends on two things and the only one that can answer that is your son. One what does he want to do with his life. 

Second how much does he love baseball. I chose athletics over education. I went where I could play two sports. I didn't care about the school at all. I took gimmy classes and just stayed eligible. After my athletic career was over I went back for the education. I would have been miserable if I didn't play as long as I could have. My doctor in HS told me "you have many many years to further your education but only a limited time to play sports." That stuck with me and I've never regretted the decision. 

It may not be popular advice to some but I advise most to at least consider it. 

This is my son.  He is currently a college freshman.  If it were not for baseball, I think he would be out looking for a job.  Baseball is what is keeping him grounded.  It has allowed him to successfully get through his first semester and hopefully be successful for the next three and a half years.  

Scotty83 posted:

It really depends on two things and the only one that can answer that is your son. One what does he want to do with his life. For a lot of careers school choice doesn't matter but for some it's very important. Same for some graduate schools. My son wants to be a pediatrician. He's been told by every doctor he's talked to about it that his undergraduate school is irrelevant and that's it ok to make his choice about baseball.

Second how much does he love baseball. I chose athletics over education. I went where I could play two sports. I didn't care about the school at all. I took gimmy classes and just stayed eligible. After my athletic career was over I went back for the education. I would have been miserable if I didn't play as long as I could have. My doctor in HS told me "you have many many years to further your education but only a limited time to play sports." That stuck with me and I've never regretted the decision. 

It may not be popular advice to some but I advise most to at least consider it. 

It might not be as unpopular as you think.

Scotty83 posted:

It really depends on two things and the only one that can answer that is your son. One what does he want to do with his life. For a lot of careers school choice doesn't matter but for some it's very important. Same for some graduate schools. My son wants to be a pediatrician. He's been told by every doctor he's talked to about it that his undergraduate school is irrelevant and that's it ok to make his choice about baseball.

Second how much does he love baseball. I chose athletics over education. I went where I could play two sports. I didn't care about the school at all. I took gimmy classes and just stayed eligible. After my athletic career was over I went back for the education. I would have been miserable if I didn't play as long as I could have. My doctor in HS told me "you have many many years to further your education but only a limited time to play sports." That stuck with me and I've never regretted the decision. 

It may not be popular advice to some but I advise most to at least consider it. 

Here’s the difference now. In 1975 it would be burning $2,000 ($9,000 NPV) per year at a state university. In 2017 it’s burning 25K per year.

coachld posted:

My 2018 and I visited a top JUCO program this past summer. They made him an offer. Traveled back home and started talking with those who had gone the JUCO route. One of the reasons that he chose not to consider JUCO was academics. He was told by several that classes were easier then classes in high school and that coaches leaned on players to keep it simple with academics. Have to remember, NJCAA do not operate under the same rules as NCAA. The coaches at the JUCO we visited were honest about player demands. In the fall, their pitchers only had 2 days off before end of 1st semester.

I don't doubt that there are some who go the JUCO route and transfer to high academic schools but it appeared to us, at the time, that academics were not a priority at all.

Just our experience with one school and talking with several players who had attended that same school.

My 2018 also looked at some very good JUCO programs this year. He was enthusiastic, but I finally made him sit down and look at what classes he could actually take and move ahead academically. Thanks to his dual credit and AP classes, he'll have 15 to 20 hours of credit coming in from HS, which really cut down on what he could take at the JUCO level. He maybe had a semester's worth of classes, and the baseball wasn't really worth it if there was nothing to be gained academically.

Great thread!  My son (2019) will likely face the same scenario.  I suspect with your son's grades and test scores he will go with option 1 or 3, but let us know how it works out -- and best of luck!  Walk on can be a long shot but it does happen.  And he'll never know if he doesn't try.  It is always interesting to me - it seems that many contributors on HSBBWB stress that it is most important to get playing time regardless of the level (DI, II or III).  But to some players, it is more important to play at the highest possible level even if that means no or little playing time - they are ok with that.  Depends on the kid.  I completely understand the drive to play DI even if it means not seeing the field much (or in the case of a walk on, perhaps not making the Spring roster).

Good luck!

I will mention the same thing I told my son when he was looking at colleges.  Use baseball as a way to get a good education at a discounted price.  If it happens so be it, if it doesn't you will have a degree without possibly owing hundred thousand dollars plus.  List the top 5 colleges you see yourself attending, enjoying college life and academics, environment, and college activities.  Don't consider baseball right now because even if you make the team no guarantee how much PT you will get, or have a serious injury to end it.  Main objective here is to get a good degree and enjoy these times.  Now with those top colleges does baseball fit in, either with scholarship, level, or PT?  If your son was a baseball stud then things would change of course and baseball might be an occupation.  For what it's worth, I NEVER envisioned my son having much of a baseball CAREER beyond high school, thus we stressed academics.  I was wrong but he still received a great education to fall back on, something that can never be taken away.

It really depends on where the juco is. I attended a juco with 10,000 students and took some of the hardest courses in my 4 years there. My d1 school has been cake compared to my juco. You'll receive the same basic courses that everyone else has to take before entering major specific courses. However, there are definitely schools out there that have either really easy classes, or they don't attend any at all.

also I see "(starter)" next to juco option. Get that out of your head. No one the coach hasn't seen play yet is a starter coming in. I had already committed to a D1 going in to juco and still wasn't a starter coming in. I had to battle for playing time with some other studs at my position.

Regarding the academics, there are several other components beyond the course materials and textbook.  Although the textbook might be the same between a JUCO and a strong 4-year school, the professors, student interaction and learning environment are quite different.  No doubt, you can take the needed General Ed. courses at a JUCO and have those credits count when you transfer, but you can't get back the missed academic experience.  Hence the dilemma in trading off the academic experience vs. JUCO Baseball.  My son's got 3-4 months to decide, so there's still time.

My 2017 son is a freshman at Virginia Tech and chose that over playing high D3 baseball. He wanted the academics and big state school experience. He killed it at the club team tryout, hit 2 of 7 total hits in the prospective player scrimmage...and still did not make the team (he was told it was a really tough call). I thought he'd be really upset...  He might have been for a week. If that.

He's got a great group of friends, they mountain bike, play racquetball, Frisbee, lift, etc. And he'll still play on his championship wood bat league team this summer. In short, it did not take long for him to embrace a full college life experience without baseball, which is still there in the form of his summer men's team.

Academics and preparation for a career are what college is about (with some fun and heartbreak, etc.)...if your son isn't a mega-stud with a shot of getting drafted.

Best of luck!

AD2018 posted:

Regarding the academics, there are several other components beyond the course materials and textbook.  Although the textbook might be the same between a JUCO and a strong 4-year school, the professors, student interaction and learning environment are quite different.  No doubt, you can take the needed General Ed. courses at a JUCO and have those credits count when you transfer, but you can't get back the missed academic experience.  Hence the dilemma in trading off the academic experience vs. JUCO Baseball.  My son's got 3-4 months to decide, so there's still time.

Make sure those credits do transfer. Sometimes that's not as easy as the JUCO's say it is.