Can anyone tell me which organization is better to play for the richmond braves or the canes.
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In my opinion the Richmond Braves are the best team in the state of Virginia. The Canes are a better and much deeper program. They have offices in Fredericksburg, VA and one in North Carolina and I think one in Maryland as well. Canes North are mostly kids from VA, Canes South are kids from NC and SC, Mid-Atlantic Canes and Delmarva Canes pull kids from PA, MD, DE, and VA. You really cant go wrong with the Canes or Braves.
Agree that both teams are excellent. Braves National teams, like the Canes, draw players from many states from GA to PA and beyond.
There are differences in the recruiting strategies and "personalities" of the teams. Talk to players and PARENTS from both teams as well as coaches. Like a college choice there is no wrong answer - just what is best for you.
The Braves may have more options - they have multiple teams at most age levels, (National, American, Scout)- allowing more players a chance to find a good fit.
There are differences in the recruiting strategies and "personalities" of the teams. Talk to players and PARENTS from both teams as well as coaches. Like a college choice there is no wrong answer - just what is best for you.
The Braves may have more options - they have multiple teams at most age levels, (National, American, Scout)- allowing more players a chance to find a good fit.
It is a Coke vs Pepsi arguement until you get into specifics. So, what are your specifics?
In addition to what has been offered above, I would ask yourself (and son) where he wants to go to college or play at the next level. I would then ask the Braves and Canes what players they have at those colleges. These travel coaches and managers have relationships with college coaches that goes back many, many years. National travel baseball is not inexpensive, and I don't see prices coming down soon unless you make a team like the Virginia Cardinals or RBA West Elite (their fees are covered). Make sure you are getting every bit of value for your baseball investment. If I could do it all over again, I would ask that college placement question. I would want to be very clear on what I'm getting for my dollar.
Best of luck.
PS...For the sake of disclosure my son played with the Richmond Braves National 2010. It was a great experience.
In addition to what has been offered above, I would ask yourself (and son) where he wants to go to college or play at the next level. I would then ask the Braves and Canes what players they have at those colleges. These travel coaches and managers have relationships with college coaches that goes back many, many years. National travel baseball is not inexpensive, and I don't see prices coming down soon unless you make a team like the Virginia Cardinals or RBA West Elite (their fees are covered). Make sure you are getting every bit of value for your baseball investment. If I could do it all over again, I would ask that college placement question. I would want to be very clear on what I'm getting for my dollar.
Best of luck.
PS...For the sake of disclosure my son played with the Richmond Braves National 2010. It was a great experience.
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the Braves have really diluted their product by constantly adding teams. I feel like it used to be a program for the few really elite guys, but now it seems they have several run of the mill teams. Like I said, I could be wrong, but it seems that a few years ago the Braves teams were mostly future D1 guys with a few lower level players mixed in. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this approach by the Braves (if it's even true). But it just seems like a bit of a departure from their original intention.
IMO Braves have added options for their players - I believe that the Braves National teams are mostly if not exclusively D1 players. Some D1 type players do play on the other teams by choice - less travel - different cost. If you look at the overall organization, that might be a diluted product/brand - but the National Team at each level is still - a national team. Again - more choices. 
ohdyou, I completely disagree but I am biased about the quality. I will say this - the Canes are significantly less expensive. The only programs less expensive are those that are free.
I'm in kind of the same boat with redbird as to bias. But I think some of these comments miss the point. The question was which program is "best." But I need to know, best for whom?
The truth is that there are differences among the various programs out there, and which one is best for you might be a different answer than which team might be the best fit for someone else.
One thing we do in our Cardinals program is, we give everyone a detailed statement of our team philosophy and approach, what we're looking for, what we expect and require of players and their parents, and what we offer both on the field and off it. I have had players contact me in the past month about our tryouts and given that information to all of them. Most of them enthusiastically came to the tryouts, but a few reviewed the information and realized, this is not the right fit for me. I have no problem with that, in fact I think it reflects mature decision making and I respect it.
Any player who is good enough to be sought after by more than one of the high level programs should do his homework and, instead of asking the world "who's best?", should ask himself, "which team would be best for me, to help me reach my goals?" The first question is just going to elicit a lot of boasting about whichever program someone is affiliated with -- which I have to admit I was tempted to do, but so far I've managed to restrain myself! -- but the second question is really the right one to ask.
And only the player can answer it.
The truth is that there are differences among the various programs out there, and which one is best for you might be a different answer than which team might be the best fit for someone else.
One thing we do in our Cardinals program is, we give everyone a detailed statement of our team philosophy and approach, what we're looking for, what we expect and require of players and their parents, and what we offer both on the field and off it. I have had players contact me in the past month about our tryouts and given that information to all of them. Most of them enthusiastically came to the tryouts, but a few reviewed the information and realized, this is not the right fit for me. I have no problem with that, in fact I think it reflects mature decision making and I respect it.
Any player who is good enough to be sought after by more than one of the high level programs should do his homework and, instead of asking the world "who's best?", should ask himself, "which team would be best for me, to help me reach my goals?" The first question is just going to elicit a lot of boasting about whichever program someone is affiliated with -- which I have to admit I was tempted to do, but so far I've managed to restrain myself! -- but the second question is really the right one to ask.
And only the player can answer it.
The "best program for the player",that is the answer to the question.
they all have a program that provides a forum to display their talents...Showcase tournaments.
but for my time and money the program that provides;
teaching(practice),guidance/contacts(recruiting) great coaching on a competitive team and last but not least cost.(Free) the only one that I know of is RBA West Elite...
Along with that an academy with two teaching facilities that has full and part time instructors/coaches (most ex pro or collage players).Fee based programs and teams from 9u and up and by appointment one on one instruction for all these ages...full service.
As it has been stated, the athlete is who determines whats best for them(Parents included) and there will be some that just want to show up and play with whatever talent they bring to the table, but to be able to have that talent developed as part of the package...WOW that's the best.
they all have a program that provides a forum to display their talents...Showcase tournaments.
but for my time and money the program that provides;
teaching(practice),guidance/contacts(recruiting) great coaching on a competitive team and last but not least cost.(Free) the only one that I know of is RBA West Elite...
Along with that an academy with two teaching facilities that has full and part time instructors/coaches (most ex pro or collage players).Fee based programs and teams from 9u and up and by appointment one on one instruction for all these ages...full service.
As it has been stated, the athlete is who determines whats best for them(Parents included) and there will be some that just want to show up and play with whatever talent they bring to the table, but to be able to have that talent developed as part of the package...WOW that's the best.
Donkey,
The Virginia Cardinals (which are run by a group including HSBBW's own Midlo Dad) are also a free team that offers teaching and great coaching (Rich Graham is one of the best, although I will admit that I don't personally know how often they practice). They also offer very solid guidance and contacts info and are competitive at the highest level. Also, I'm not sure of the official relationship, but I believe they also offer an academy and indoor facilities through RBA South.
In fact, as far as I know, they were the first group to offer all of this free of charge locally. You may have already known this, but I wanted to make sure people knew that RBA West isn't the only game in town in that regard.
The Virginia Cardinals (which are run by a group including HSBBW's own Midlo Dad) are also a free team that offers teaching and great coaching (Rich Graham is one of the best, although I will admit that I don't personally know how often they practice). They also offer very solid guidance and contacts info and are competitive at the highest level. Also, I'm not sure of the official relationship, but I believe they also offer an academy and indoor facilities through RBA South.
In fact, as far as I know, they were the first group to offer all of this free of charge locally. You may have already known this, but I wanted to make sure people knew that RBA West isn't the only game in town in that regard.
Again, we're talking apples and oranges to a certain extent. But maybe I have presumed too much in terms of the extent to which we've gotten out the message of what our team does for players. So, throwing caution to the winds, here goes.
As to teaching and instruction, I don't know of any team in Virginia at any level that offers access to a guy with Rich Graham's resume other than the Cardinals. There are many instances of individual sessions and small group sessions during our season cycle. I would suggest people who are interested check out Rich's resume on the RBA South web site and see for themselves if anyone else running any team anywhere else measures up. If this is how you will choose your 17u team I feel confident how any unbiased investigation will turn out.
As to regular, full-team practices, that is going to be a function of how local-centric the team is. Practices are not really a common characteristic of 16u-17u exposure teams. Team practices are more common for developmental teams at 15u and younger. For the most part, exposure teams are intended for players who have already developed their skills and who are also dedicated enough to work on their own and then join together for the team's games. I would respectfully submit that if you are a 17u guy and you are trying to play catch-up during the summer preceding your senior year, you have some tough sledding ahead of you. If that's what you're looking for, that's your decision. It's not a path I would recommend, though.
Generally, if you join a team like, say, the Canes, it's generally to get yourself onto a squad that has a bunch of scout magnets so that you can get yourself seen as well. The Canes are from all over several states, so the notion that they would just get together on Wed. nights to practice is not workable. RBA West, on the other hand, draws its roster either exclusively or almost exclusively from the Richmond area, and that makes practicing possible. The Cardinals have a mission statement that requires you to be a Virginia resident, but while we who run the team live in the Richmond area and we draw more from that area than from anywhere else, we have had numerous players from outside our area as well. Currently we have 2 from NoVa, 3 from the Beach area, and guys from places like Amelia, Dinwiddie, etc. We have also had players from Culpeper, Spotsylvania, Charlottesville, etc.
As to costs, I know RBA West Elite has joined the Cardinals in charging no player participation fees. However, RBA West's other teams do charge fees. RBA West does charge a fee to try out, while the Cardinals do not. The Cardinals also provide hotel rooms at no charge, and we coordinate options for free transportation as well. I do not know if those are included in what the RBA West Elite team offers. All in all, RBA West might come close to meeting what we offer on costs, but it's impossible to beat us. When we say "free" we mean "free."
As to contacts/recruiting, I guess the proof is in the pudding. We had nine 2011's on our roster last year and as of right now all nine are heading off to colleges where roster spots are awaiting them. That spanned all levels from Division I (4) to Division III (2) to Junior Colleges (2) to NAIA (1). Those figures do not include additional offers that were secured but declined, since some of our players had as many as four firm offers to weigh before choosing. We have 14 2012's on our roster and as of this writing 7 have Division I deals done. We are working very hard to keep our 100% placement record intact and believe we will do so.
I also do not know of any other program that offers guidance through the recruiting process to the extent the Cardinals do. The truth is that what you do on the field is the largest determinant your recruiting outcome, but it is far from the only factor. You have to consider academic level, prospective majors, family finances, and the handling of scholarship negotiations. If anyone else does what we do in these areas, I am not aware of it.
And oh, yeah, we win a lot. 75% of the time this summer. Taking just the PG/WWBA 17u week in East Cobb as a guide, we led that event in shutouts, we run-ruled four opponents, and we were the only Virginia-based team to win a playoff game there.
I'm not here to denigrate any other program. Given the success records of the Canes, Braves and now the RBA West Elite teams, we have an embarrassment of riches for the player looking for the right match. But I think we stack up pretty well. As noted above, we are not the right fit for every single player. And, we're only one team, so we cannot accommodate everyone. But we're pretty proud of what we've accomplished, given that we've only been around for 14 months now.
As to teaching and instruction, I don't know of any team in Virginia at any level that offers access to a guy with Rich Graham's resume other than the Cardinals. There are many instances of individual sessions and small group sessions during our season cycle. I would suggest people who are interested check out Rich's resume on the RBA South web site and see for themselves if anyone else running any team anywhere else measures up. If this is how you will choose your 17u team I feel confident how any unbiased investigation will turn out.
As to regular, full-team practices, that is going to be a function of how local-centric the team is. Practices are not really a common characteristic of 16u-17u exposure teams. Team practices are more common for developmental teams at 15u and younger. For the most part, exposure teams are intended for players who have already developed their skills and who are also dedicated enough to work on their own and then join together for the team's games. I would respectfully submit that if you are a 17u guy and you are trying to play catch-up during the summer preceding your senior year, you have some tough sledding ahead of you. If that's what you're looking for, that's your decision. It's not a path I would recommend, though.
Generally, if you join a team like, say, the Canes, it's generally to get yourself onto a squad that has a bunch of scout magnets so that you can get yourself seen as well. The Canes are from all over several states, so the notion that they would just get together on Wed. nights to practice is not workable. RBA West, on the other hand, draws its roster either exclusively or almost exclusively from the Richmond area, and that makes practicing possible. The Cardinals have a mission statement that requires you to be a Virginia resident, but while we who run the team live in the Richmond area and we draw more from that area than from anywhere else, we have had numerous players from outside our area as well. Currently we have 2 from NoVa, 3 from the Beach area, and guys from places like Amelia, Dinwiddie, etc. We have also had players from Culpeper, Spotsylvania, Charlottesville, etc.
As to costs, I know RBA West Elite has joined the Cardinals in charging no player participation fees. However, RBA West's other teams do charge fees. RBA West does charge a fee to try out, while the Cardinals do not. The Cardinals also provide hotel rooms at no charge, and we coordinate options for free transportation as well. I do not know if those are included in what the RBA West Elite team offers. All in all, RBA West might come close to meeting what we offer on costs, but it's impossible to beat us. When we say "free" we mean "free."
As to contacts/recruiting, I guess the proof is in the pudding. We had nine 2011's on our roster last year and as of right now all nine are heading off to colleges where roster spots are awaiting them. That spanned all levels from Division I (4) to Division III (2) to Junior Colleges (2) to NAIA (1). Those figures do not include additional offers that were secured but declined, since some of our players had as many as four firm offers to weigh before choosing. We have 14 2012's on our roster and as of this writing 7 have Division I deals done. We are working very hard to keep our 100% placement record intact and believe we will do so.
I also do not know of any other program that offers guidance through the recruiting process to the extent the Cardinals do. The truth is that what you do on the field is the largest determinant your recruiting outcome, but it is far from the only factor. You have to consider academic level, prospective majors, family finances, and the handling of scholarship negotiations. If anyone else does what we do in these areas, I am not aware of it.
And oh, yeah, we win a lot. 75% of the time this summer. Taking just the PG/WWBA 17u week in East Cobb as a guide, we led that event in shutouts, we run-ruled four opponents, and we were the only Virginia-based team to win a playoff game there.
I'm not here to denigrate any other program. Given the success records of the Canes, Braves and now the RBA West Elite teams, we have an embarrassment of riches for the player looking for the right match. But I think we stack up pretty well. As noted above, we are not the right fit for every single player. And, we're only one team, so we cannot accommodate everyone. But we're pretty proud of what we've accomplished, given that we've only been around for 14 months now.
Heroes, VC is s very good organization and does benefit their athletes in big ways, but using their own description and roster, they do not practice,as having players from many different locations out side the metro area. thus the development is limited, they also seem to want to be considered "not" part of RBA south so the use of RBA south is not a team use...
I guess my position is based on ongoing development and the difference is not only VC (which is less) but with the Braves and the canes. they all have their place, but there is only one Best. we all have to decide what that is based on our needs.
POSTED on HSWEB Nov/09 By Midlodad
Rich Graham of Richmond Baseball Academy South has formed the Virginia Cardinals baseball program, which will have its maiden voyage with a 17u team this summer and fall. Events include several college showcase tournaments, PG's WWBA 17u at East Cobb, and other comparable level events.
The Cardinals team is fully financially sponsored and thus, roster spots will not involve a player fee. For at least some events, player transportation and hotels will also be provided by the team. The goal is to open up high level travel baseball to players irrespective of whether they come from well to do backgrounds. We will focus on kids from the Richmond metro area (Central Region and surroundings) but will consider players from more distant locations in Virginia as well.
Most of this year's roster has already been selected, but some openings remain, and of course you can never have too much pitching!
Players should be current juniors, with possible exceptions for the truly exceptional sophomore. Bear in mind that these types of teams exist as showcasing/recruitment vehicles (as opposed to emphasizing instruction and training), so players should come to the team already performing at a high level....See below Posted on our site when By Midlo dad at the start of their program.........
Rich Graham of Richmond Baseball Academy South has formed the Virginia Cardinals baseball program, which will have its maiden voyage with a 17u team this summer and fall. Events include several college showcase tournaments, PG's WWBA 17u at East Cobb, and other comparable level events.
The Cardinals team is fully financially sponsored and thus, roster spots will not involve a player fee. For at least some events, player transportation and hotels will also be provided by the team. The goal is to open up high level travel baseball to players irrespective of whether they come from well to do backgrounds. We will focus on kids from the Richmond metro area (Central Region and surroundings) but will consider players from more distant locations in Virginia as well.
Most of this year's roster has already been selected, but some openings remain, and of course you can never have too much pitching!
Players should be current juniors, with possible exceptions for the truly exceptional sophomore. Bear in mind that these types of teams exist as showcasing/recruitment vehicles (as opposed to emphasizing instruction and training), so players should come to the team already performing at a high level.
I guess my position is based on ongoing development and the difference is not only VC (which is less) but with the Braves and the canes. they all have their place, but there is only one Best. we all have to decide what that is based on our needs.
POSTED on HSWEB Nov/09 By Midlodad
Rich Graham of Richmond Baseball Academy South has formed the Virginia Cardinals baseball program, which will have its maiden voyage with a 17u team this summer and fall. Events include several college showcase tournaments, PG's WWBA 17u at East Cobb, and other comparable level events.
The Cardinals team is fully financially sponsored and thus, roster spots will not involve a player fee. For at least some events, player transportation and hotels will also be provided by the team. The goal is to open up high level travel baseball to players irrespective of whether they come from well to do backgrounds. We will focus on kids from the Richmond metro area (Central Region and surroundings) but will consider players from more distant locations in Virginia as well.
Most of this year's roster has already been selected, but some openings remain, and of course you can never have too much pitching!
Players should be current juniors, with possible exceptions for the truly exceptional sophomore. Bear in mind that these types of teams exist as showcasing/recruitment vehicles (as opposed to emphasizing instruction and training), so players should come to the team already performing at a high level....See below Posted on our site when By Midlo dad at the start of their program.........
Rich Graham of Richmond Baseball Academy South has formed the Virginia Cardinals baseball program, which will have its maiden voyage with a 17u team this summer and fall. Events include several college showcase tournaments, PG's WWBA 17u at East Cobb, and other comparable level events.
The Cardinals team is fully financially sponsored and thus, roster spots will not involve a player fee. For at least some events, player transportation and hotels will also be provided by the team. The goal is to open up high level travel baseball to players irrespective of whether they come from well to do backgrounds. We will focus on kids from the Richmond metro area (Central Region and surroundings) but will consider players from more distant locations in Virginia as well.
Most of this year's roster has already been selected, but some openings remain, and of course you can never have too much pitching!
Players should be current juniors, with possible exceptions for the truly exceptional sophomore. Bear in mind that these types of teams exist as showcasing/recruitment vehicles (as opposed to emphasizing instruction and training), so players should come to the team already performing at a high level.
The first question I would ask, is what age travel team?
To me, Travel and Showcase are two different animals.
Showcase is designed to get individual players exposure to coaches and scouts. Most times these teams don't really practice often, if at all because of the wide area the players are from. Like someone else mentioned, there are exceptions.
Travel is what many players do leading into showcase teams. Many of these teams do practice as a team.
As much as no one seems to want to admit it...travel / showcase baseball (pay to play) is a BUSINESS. The object is to make money.
There are organizations now, that have great reputations for helping placing players in college programs, that are using this track record to recruit the parents of players as young as 10 years old. The cost for some of these programs is just ridiculous, and I've seen some organizations suggest to parents that the reason it's so expensive, is because it helps fund the showcase teams, and then add "So when your son is playing at that level, it will help him out as well."
The following is just my opinion:
It's a very thin line to run an Academy type business (teaching, lessons, conditioning etc) and field competitive, successful teams, ESPECIALLY at the younger ages.
My reasoning?
If a parent is writing you a check every month for lessons for their son, how would they react when he doesn't make your team, even if he's not good enough?
The higher level teams tend to be populated by the better, "recruited" players. So of course they usually do well. This of course draws attention and parents and players take notice and want to join this successful organization. So the organization fields more teams.
I know team chemistry, and how players get along can be a big factor as well.
It's an individual choice.
To me, Travel and Showcase are two different animals.
Showcase is designed to get individual players exposure to coaches and scouts. Most times these teams don't really practice often, if at all because of the wide area the players are from. Like someone else mentioned, there are exceptions.
Travel is what many players do leading into showcase teams. Many of these teams do practice as a team.
As much as no one seems to want to admit it...travel / showcase baseball (pay to play) is a BUSINESS. The object is to make money.
There are organizations now, that have great reputations for helping placing players in college programs, that are using this track record to recruit the parents of players as young as 10 years old. The cost for some of these programs is just ridiculous, and I've seen some organizations suggest to parents that the reason it's so expensive, is because it helps fund the showcase teams, and then add "So when your son is playing at that level, it will help him out as well."
The following is just my opinion:
It's a very thin line to run an Academy type business (teaching, lessons, conditioning etc) and field competitive, successful teams, ESPECIALLY at the younger ages.
My reasoning?
If a parent is writing you a check every month for lessons for their son, how would they react when he doesn't make your team, even if he's not good enough?
The higher level teams tend to be populated by the better, "recruited" players. So of course they usually do well. This of course draws attention and parents and players take notice and want to join this successful organization. So the organization fields more teams.
I know team chemistry, and how players get along can be a big factor as well.
It's an individual choice.
Midlo dad I am very surprised by a number of your comments, but the most confusing is your thinking that development stops at some point...or as you put it in your above post
"As to regular, full-team practices, that is going to be a function of how local-centric the team is. Practices are not really a common characteristic of 16u-17u exposure teams. Team practices are more common for developmental teams at 15u and younger. For the most part, exposure teams are intended for players who have already developed their skills and who are also dedicated enough to work on their own and then join together for the team's games. I would respectfully submit that if you are a 17u guy and you are trying to play catch-up during the summer preceding your senior year, you have some tough sledding ahead of you. If that's what you're looking for, that's your decision. It's not a path I would recommend, though".
I have played for a long time at all levels of this great game and I can tell you that development never stops and if you really think that a 17u player needs to stop practicing to just play is way way off, the game requires reps and someone to enhance or even correct effort...I bet you think that spring training in the Major Leagues is just a try out also...
"As to regular, full-team practices, that is going to be a function of how local-centric the team is. Practices are not really a common characteristic of 16u-17u exposure teams. Team practices are more common for developmental teams at 15u and younger. For the most part, exposure teams are intended for players who have already developed their skills and who are also dedicated enough to work on their own and then join together for the team's games. I would respectfully submit that if you are a 17u guy and you are trying to play catch-up during the summer preceding your senior year, you have some tough sledding ahead of you. If that's what you're looking for, that's your decision. It's not a path I would recommend, though".
I have played for a long time at all levels of this great game and I can tell you that development never stops and if you really think that a 17u player needs to stop practicing to just play is way way off, the game requires reps and someone to enhance or even correct effort...I bet you think that spring training in the Major Leagues is just a try out also...
I don't think anyone is suggesting to stop practicing. With the Canes, it is exactly the opposite. We give our kids things to work on during the week to prepare them for the weekend. To insinuate (as some other teams have, not Midlo) that the Canes do not develop or coach is completely ludicrous. Again, this is not directed at Midlo or the VC.
Midlo, the core of our North teams are VA kids. We have arms from other states to join us at big tourneys (WWB, Jupiter, etc.). They are generally not part of our normal weekends, unless they are looking at the college where we are playing. As for scout magnets, we feel all of our kids are. So far, 13 of our 21 2012 North kids have accepted scolarships to DI schools, with most of the other 8 contemplating generous offers. Of those 13, 9 are going to an ACC or SEC school. Success breeds success. Winning back-to-back 16U WWB Championships and placing over 150 kids in schools over 4 years certainly helps. Having teams run by Scouts/Associate Scouts also helps as does our coaching staff having been selected to coach a team at the PG National Games. We offer our players guidance through the process year round as well. It is an unusual week when I don't talk or text one of my players or a college coach.
There is a lot of misinformation about the Canes (again, not directed at Midlo). Many people think we simply write a lineup but there is much more that goes on behind the scenes. Our goal as a staff is to outwork everyone to help our kids. I know we accomplish this goal year in and year out.
Midlo, the core of our North teams are VA kids. We have arms from other states to join us at big tourneys (WWB, Jupiter, etc.). They are generally not part of our normal weekends, unless they are looking at the college where we are playing. As for scout magnets, we feel all of our kids are. So far, 13 of our 21 2012 North kids have accepted scolarships to DI schools, with most of the other 8 contemplating generous offers. Of those 13, 9 are going to an ACC or SEC school. Success breeds success. Winning back-to-back 16U WWB Championships and placing over 150 kids in schools over 4 years certainly helps. Having teams run by Scouts/Associate Scouts also helps as does our coaching staff having been selected to coach a team at the PG National Games. We offer our players guidance through the process year round as well. It is an unusual week when I don't talk or text one of my players or a college coach.
There is a lot of misinformation about the Canes (again, not directed at Midlo). Many people think we simply write a lineup but there is much more that goes on behind the scenes. Our goal as a staff is to outwork everyone to help our kids. I know we accomplish this goal year in and year out.
"if you really think that a 17u player needs to stop practicing to just play is way way off"
I never said that. You must be arguing with someone else.
The issue is not whether a player stops working to improve. Players should understand, that never stops. But a lot of the game is actually bringing together 9 guys with individual skills. Players need to work on their individual skills, well, individually.
The team does not need to get together for players to work on their conditioning, fielding techniques, batting, or bullpens. To the extent that someone is looking to do their individual work only when the entire roster is all there together -- the way you would with a Little League team, a high school team or even some travel teams -- this would be atypical for any high level 16-17u exposure team. That is because an exposure team has a different purpose from a recreational team, a youth developmental travel team, or even a typical high school team. If you want one of the latter, you have my blessing, but don't fault an exposure team for being exactly what it says it is and not something else.
There is a certain amount of work a team does have to do together so that you can run pickoff plays, cutoff/relay plays, etc., as a team unit. We do get that done as and when we are able. And of course, in pre-game warmups and constantly during games there are many reps and "teachable moments." We would never suggest that any of that should stop.
As I said, our team is not what every single player is looking for. So, consider what you need in your individual situation, examine the options, and then figure out which one best suits you.
I never said that. You must be arguing with someone else.
The issue is not whether a player stops working to improve. Players should understand, that never stops. But a lot of the game is actually bringing together 9 guys with individual skills. Players need to work on their individual skills, well, individually.
The team does not need to get together for players to work on their conditioning, fielding techniques, batting, or bullpens. To the extent that someone is looking to do their individual work only when the entire roster is all there together -- the way you would with a Little League team, a high school team or even some travel teams -- this would be atypical for any high level 16-17u exposure team. That is because an exposure team has a different purpose from a recreational team, a youth developmental travel team, or even a typical high school team. If you want one of the latter, you have my blessing, but don't fault an exposure team for being exactly what it says it is and not something else.
There is a certain amount of work a team does have to do together so that you can run pickoff plays, cutoff/relay plays, etc., as a team unit. We do get that done as and when we are able. And of course, in pre-game warmups and constantly during games there are many reps and "teachable moments." We would never suggest that any of that should stop.
As I said, our team is not what every single player is looking for. So, consider what you need in your individual situation, examine the options, and then figure out which one best suits you.
And Redbird, I have said before and I'll say again, we have the utmost respect for the Canes teams and the Canes organization. We enjoy good personal relationships and we love it when we get to play you guys. Win or lose, great games and we can always count on lots of scouts!
There's nothing like being on the field next to guys like Jake Cave, Deshorn Lake or others to assure that you've now got the opportunity to impress someone yourself.
There's nothing like being on the field next to guys like Jake Cave, Deshorn Lake or others to assure that you've now got the opportunity to impress someone yourself.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
And Redbird, I have said before and I'll say again, we have the utmost respect for the Canes teams and the Canes organization...
Same for us with the Cardinals. I didn't take offense to anything you said. I was simply correcting a lot of misinformation others are spreading about the Canes.
quote:Originally posted by redbird5:
ohdyou, I completely disagree but I am biased about the quality. I will say this - the Canes are significantly less expensive. The only programs less expensive are those that are free.
Redbird, what I was trying to say is that I associate the Richmond Braves as more of a state organization whereas as the Canes are more of a National organization. This is all IMO.
quote:Originally posted by ohdyou:
Redbird, what I was trying to say is that I associate the Richmond Braves as more of a state organization whereas as the Canes are more of a National organization. This is all IMO.
While it is true that we (Canes) have a national draw, the core of our Canes North 2012 team are VA kids. We had 21 on roster last summer, with 15 of them being VA kids. Of those from other states (MD, MA, OH, GA, PA & MN), only 2 played with us for the majority of the summer. The 2013 North has even more VA kids, with 16 VA and 4 out of state kids (MD, PA, NC & DE).
When a 6'5", 190 RHP throwing 88-90 calls asking to play with you, what should you say?
With all of that being said, we are not a good fit for everyone. We want high level players or those with high level tools that can develop.
Lots of great info sharing on this thread. I wonder if the young man asking the question got his answer?
"When a 6'5", 190 RHP throwing 88-90 calls asking to play with you, what should you say?"
We would say, "Please tell us you live in Virginia!"
We would say, "Please tell us you live in Virginia!"
Midlo,
really, you work on things during warm ups..
reps during games...
"Players need to work on their individual skills, well, individually".
you really think that...
so your saying your guys do need practice, just not from you...
So a team that is Free, pays for participation, lodging, arranges for transportation as needed, creates and maintains a video of each player and makes it available to any and all recruiters contacts schools of interest of each player and is a intermediary between schools that are interested in a given player, and uses its vast network of contacts for schools, pro teams, and a rich network of recruiting guidance from college, pro players ex players, Pro Scouts and has parents that have gone thru and have a bevvy of knowledge from pure practical experience such as the Mr Verlander and Jeff Zona.
and practices as a team... is not that the best way to go.
unless you are now saying team practice is BAD for a Non rec or high school team...an Elite Showcase/Exposure Team.
it would seem Free to RBA West players is a much better Value then Free To a VC player.
really, you work on things during warm ups..
reps during games...
"Players need to work on their individual skills, well, individually".
you really think that...
so your saying your guys do need practice, just not from you...
So a team that is Free, pays for participation, lodging, arranges for transportation as needed, creates and maintains a video of each player and makes it available to any and all recruiters contacts schools of interest of each player and is a intermediary between schools that are interested in a given player, and uses its vast network of contacts for schools, pro teams, and a rich network of recruiting guidance from college, pro players ex players, Pro Scouts and has parents that have gone thru and have a bevvy of knowledge from pure practical experience such as the Mr Verlander and Jeff Zona.
and practices as a team... is not that the best way to go.
unless you are now saying team practice is BAD for a Non rec or high school team...an Elite Showcase/Exposure Team.
it would seem Free to RBA West players is a much better Value then Free To a VC player.
Getting back to the original question, I think the best answer was given by fenwaysouth. You need to decide what you are looking for and then do your research (really wish we had).
1. What goal are you trying to achieve by playing on this team? (Tailor the following questions based on that answer.)
2. Does the team have any practices and training (off-season and/or during season)?
3. What kind of recruiting help does the organization offer? Is it offered to all players or only those on the "elite" team?
4. What kind of exposure can you expect?
5. What does the organization expect of you (regarding contacting coaches, ongoing training, etc.)?
6. Who are the team coaches and what is their experience? How many coaches are provided for the team?
Perhaps others can add to this list and help you out.
1. What goal are you trying to achieve by playing on this team? (Tailor the following questions based on that answer.)
2. Does the team have any practices and training (off-season and/or during season)?
3. What kind of recruiting help does the organization offer? Is it offered to all players or only those on the "elite" team?
4. What kind of exposure can you expect?
5. What does the organization expect of you (regarding contacting coaches, ongoing training, etc.)?
6. Who are the team coaches and what is their experience? How many coaches are provided for the team?
Perhaps others can add to this list and help you out.
Donkey IMO is a little off topic.
The best program for each player will vary by wants and needs. Canes, Braves and Cardinals have shown on a national stage very well. RBA West is upcoming although will have it's drawbacks as well. If your player has to practice with his team and can not work out on their own then the other top programs might not be for your player. However, if you are in the Richmond area, RBA West may be the route for you if selected to their TOP TEAM. Will playing with their pay for play teams be OK for you? If RBA West is practicing weekly obviously they miss out on top talent throughout the state. I don't see how beach or northern VA players can commute weekly just to practice. If they accept those players then they compromise practicing. Catch 22 in that case.
Do research and talk to players and parents from other showcase teams. Just like with college, there isn't one that is a right fit for everyone.
Good luck.
The best program for each player will vary by wants and needs. Canes, Braves and Cardinals have shown on a national stage very well. RBA West is upcoming although will have it's drawbacks as well. If your player has to practice with his team and can not work out on their own then the other top programs might not be for your player. However, if you are in the Richmond area, RBA West may be the route for you if selected to their TOP TEAM. Will playing with their pay for play teams be OK for you? If RBA West is practicing weekly obviously they miss out on top talent throughout the state. I don't see how beach or northern VA players can commute weekly just to practice. If they accept those players then they compromise practicing. Catch 22 in that case.
Do research and talk to players and parents from other showcase teams. Just like with college, there isn't one that is a right fit for everyone.
Good luck.
Donkey,
Honestly, I'll just stick to what I actually said. I don't know why you want to pretend I said other things. I certainly did not impugn RBA West in any way. If you like them better as the choice for your son, Godspeed.
One thing that I have always firmly believed in is that, when you are in the thick of a player's recruiting cycle, the player will benefit most from being on a team of "scout magnets." When each guy on the team is capable of attracting eyes to watch him, and then you are playing teams that do the same, you can do more to expand a player's exposure and options. If you reject this central thesis, then we are probably not the right team for you, because this thesis guides the way we build and manage our team.
It has been my experience that, in order to pursue that model to its peak, you do well to draw from a larger geographic area. Having done that, the notion of holding regular practices of the entire team, together as a unit, goes by the boards.
It has also been my experience that, with the type of player we're talking about -- a player of true Division I capabilities in particular -- the player is very capable of coming to games ready to play and the team is very capable of functioning properly as a unit in game situations and at game speed.
Part of this is a matter of definition. Because in my eyes, you are not a Division I caliber player unless you are self-motivated enough to do what you should be doing between games to be ready at game time. A player who needs someone to nurse maid him through his workouts is not, IMHO, suitable for D-1 play. If by chance he ever got there, he would not survive long.
The other part is just experience with this over a period of years. Consistently, teams who follow the model I have outlined out-perform teams who follow your model both on the field (wins and losses) and in terms of recruiting outcomes for their players (which is the actual goal, more so than winning games).
It is also true that we will sometimes see a team that uses the model you outline that plays quite well and, on any given day, can beat you. I am thinking right now of a game we let get away to a team like that in our last summer tournament. We win probably 9 out of 10 games against teams like those, but there are always the other 1 out of 10 games! Yet even with the occasional victory, you just don't see those teams putting kids into D-1 ball the way you do with programs who work on the "scout magnet model", for lack of a better term.
There are a lot of different types of teams and a lot of different goals you may want a team to serve for you at any given time. Our team exists to shepherd high level players through the recruiting process, primarily in that period from the end of their junior years through the fall, sometimes for the year before that and that year as well. We try to keep our eye on that target so that we hit it. But if your goals are different from ours, by all means, choose a different team.
Honestly, I'll just stick to what I actually said. I don't know why you want to pretend I said other things. I certainly did not impugn RBA West in any way. If you like them better as the choice for your son, Godspeed.
One thing that I have always firmly believed in is that, when you are in the thick of a player's recruiting cycle, the player will benefit most from being on a team of "scout magnets." When each guy on the team is capable of attracting eyes to watch him, and then you are playing teams that do the same, you can do more to expand a player's exposure and options. If you reject this central thesis, then we are probably not the right team for you, because this thesis guides the way we build and manage our team.
It has been my experience that, in order to pursue that model to its peak, you do well to draw from a larger geographic area. Having done that, the notion of holding regular practices of the entire team, together as a unit, goes by the boards.
It has also been my experience that, with the type of player we're talking about -- a player of true Division I capabilities in particular -- the player is very capable of coming to games ready to play and the team is very capable of functioning properly as a unit in game situations and at game speed.
Part of this is a matter of definition. Because in my eyes, you are not a Division I caliber player unless you are self-motivated enough to do what you should be doing between games to be ready at game time. A player who needs someone to nurse maid him through his workouts is not, IMHO, suitable for D-1 play. If by chance he ever got there, he would not survive long.
The other part is just experience with this over a period of years. Consistently, teams who follow the model I have outlined out-perform teams who follow your model both on the field (wins and losses) and in terms of recruiting outcomes for their players (which is the actual goal, more so than winning games).
It is also true that we will sometimes see a team that uses the model you outline that plays quite well and, on any given day, can beat you. I am thinking right now of a game we let get away to a team like that in our last summer tournament. We win probably 9 out of 10 games against teams like those, but there are always the other 1 out of 10 games! Yet even with the occasional victory, you just don't see those teams putting kids into D-1 ball the way you do with programs who work on the "scout magnet model", for lack of a better term.
There are a lot of different types of teams and a lot of different goals you may want a team to serve for you at any given time. Our team exists to shepherd high level players through the recruiting process, primarily in that period from the end of their junior years through the fall, sometimes for the year before that and that year as well. We try to keep our eye on that target so that we hit it. But if your goals are different from ours, by all means, choose a different team.
While the Richmond Braves, Canes, RBA & VC have been getting most of the attention in this thread other good teams/organizations in VA include the Mid-Atlantic Pirates and Braves Elite. Hitters Warehouse is also developing teams in several age groups.
I think that's just because the OP inquired as to Braves and Canes ... and then I elbowed in there as well!
But others of note include the NVTBL Stars, Patriots of NoVa, Tidewater Drillers, and I'm sure I'm still missing somebody here by working just off the top of my head.
Seems like everyone ought to be able to settle on one team or another that they can aspire to.
But others of note include the NVTBL Stars, Patriots of NoVa, Tidewater Drillers, and I'm sure I'm still missing somebody here by working just off the top of my head.
Seems like everyone ought to be able to settle on one team or another that they can aspire to.
Midlo, i believe i have made my point...
see you on the field.
see you on the field.
Guys, being an owner and part of an orgainization for over 15 years and seen many teams come and go, I think everyone does a great job and glad there are so many good teams so then alot of players can continue their dream of playing at the next levels (which is why we all coach anyways right?). If there wasn't so many organizations and teams, then alot of kids would be playing for their dads. So hats off to all Travel, Showcase, and Scout Teams.
At the end of the day, its about the kids not the organizations because if it wasn't for the kids and parents, none of us would have an organization, so as adults lets quit beating our chest as who is the best and agree that all of us have good qualities that we offer to the players and parents.
Good luck to everyone this fall.
Chris Gerrity
RBAWEST
www.RBAWEST.com
At the end of the day, its about the kids not the organizations because if it wasn't for the kids and parents, none of us would have an organization, so as adults lets quit beating our chest as who is the best and agree that all of us have good qualities that we offer to the players and parents.
Good luck to everyone this fall.
Chris Gerrity
RBAWEST
www.RBAWEST.com
quote:Originally posted by RBAWEST:
...so as adults lets quit beating our chest as who is the best...
I don't see where that is happening. Neither Midlo nor I have said anything about who is the best. There are many teams in VA. Players and families need to find the best fit for their situation.
Have the Canes and/or the Braves surpassed the Tidewater Orioles?
Wow....what a thread !!! Some very good info !!!
It seems each orginization/team has it's good points.
It also seems that MidloDad talks so much he can't remember what he said !!
It appears that RBA West is the only "FULL SERVICE" orginization/team by offering the same services as the others....and then some.
thanks for the info.
It seems each orginization/team has it's good points.
It also seems that MidloDad talks so much he can't remember what he said !!
It appears that RBA West is the only "FULL SERVICE" orginization/team by offering the same services as the others....and then some.
thanks for the info.
quote:Originally posted by Donkey15:
Midlo, i believe i have made my point...
see you on the field.
You did? I must have missed it.
Gator,
Apparently you were absent when reading comprehension was taught. I don't think Donkey putting words in Midlo's mouth qualifies as Midlo "talking so much he can't remember what he said !!"
The sad part is that I agree that RBA West is doing a good thing for kids locally. They have a very strong reputation and they are (I believe) the longest running academy locally. Nobody here is trying to disparage them at all. Donkey came on here and made a false statement that RBA West was the only team offering what they offer for free. He was corrected and informed, then he proceeded to put words into people's mouths that they never said.
Apparently you were absent when reading comprehension was taught. I don't think Donkey putting words in Midlo's mouth qualifies as Midlo "talking so much he can't remember what he said !!"
The sad part is that I agree that RBA West is doing a good thing for kids locally. They have a very strong reputation and they are (I believe) the longest running academy locally. Nobody here is trying to disparage them at all. Donkey came on here and made a false statement that RBA West was the only team offering what they offer for free. He was corrected and informed, then he proceeded to put words into people's mouths that they never said.
The answer to the original poster's question?
Cane or Braves?
Depends on the player, the parents, and your particular situation.
Players are different, so are coaches. I've seen players blossom under one coach and stagnate under another. And the reverse is true of the same coach / team.
Every player is different. Every team is different. Every coach is different.
Ask around, talk to current / former players.
Joining a team because of its reputation only can (not always) end up being a bad choice.
Cane or Braves?
Depends on the player, the parents, and your particular situation.
Players are different, so are coaches. I've seen players blossom under one coach and stagnate under another. And the reverse is true of the same coach / team.
Every player is different. Every team is different. Every coach is different.
Ask around, talk to current / former players.
Joining a team because of its reputation only can (not always) end up being a bad choice.
Emanski, you were proven to be clueless at the beginning of this thread trying to defend something and not knowing the details, and again you show that you have only other peoples ideas, go and re-read and try to comprehend...
The original question seemed innocent enough... 
quote:I would also add: I have no issue with anyone who charges for what they offer. This is still a country free enough that people can offer a service and quote a price and if someone willingly pays it, then that is perfectly fine for all involved even if someone finds a way to make a living doing it. To suggest that there is anything wrong with making a living by offering a service that people are willing to pay for is to me, just downright un-American.
That is kind of what I was thinking too. If a team is providing a service, in this case quality college exposure, I don't have a problem with them making money on it.
I also believe there are programs out there more interested in making money than promoting players but it seems to be the exception and not the rule.
As was stated earlier, since parents are footing the bill, you need to do your homework and talk to as many people as you can to formulate an opinion as to a program being a good fit for your son. Chances are, you might not get it right the first time but that is OK, as long as you learn from it.
The great news is there are a vast number of programs out there that could be a potential fit.
As a side note, in the case of the Cardinals and RBA West Elite...it seems the phrase "no good deed goes unpunished" might be appropriate here.
quote:Originally posted by Donkey15:
Emanski, you were proven to be clueless at the beginning of this thread trying to defend something and not knowing the details, and again you show that you have only other peoples ideas, go and re-read and try to comprehend...
This made me laugh.