What is your opinion on him? He is a really talented pitcher and also seems to be a very smart person who uses analytics to get better but he also gets into all kind of controversies.
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Strikes me as a pitcher who is ahead of the curve on intelligence. He also seems to be on the cutting edge of technology as far as getting better is concerned. He seems to like twitter a little too much.
Unfortunately some pro athletes are so self involved they believe their opinion is more relevant than any other person sitting on a corner stool in a bar. Often without having researched the facts they pound their chest on social media.,
really?
I ❤️ him. My youngest doesn’t play baseball, but if he did, that’s the kinda player he would be. Intelligent, eccentric, fun. Uses his platform to help others.
I can think of much worse celebrity athletes who chooses to live in a fish bowl.
RJM posted:Unfortunately some pro athletes are so self involved they believe their opinion is more relevant than any other person sitting on a corner stool in a bar. Often without having researched the facts they pound their chest on social media.,
Not just athletes...I'd rate this at just about anybody who has ever sent a picture out on Social Media. Or posted on High School baseball websites! 
It certainly isn't easy as a famous person to use social media. You get provoked a lot (him especially by Astros fans since he stated he believes Astros pitchers boost their spin rate with pine tar) and if you fire back you are the one who is blamed.
Best thing would be to ignore or block those people but I understand if someone occasionally ticks off especially if you use social media yourself instead of having a social media manager.
Many geniuses are fools. I see both in Bauer. I like him. And I'm an Astro fan. I wish he would come to Houston.
Went to an Astro/Indian game about four/five years ago. Last series of the season. Was on the field in the media area before the game with my son. Their 3B coach played with my brother in-law in college. Some guy in the outfield was throwing the ball foul pole to foul pole. My son asked "Wow, what's that guy doing?" The coach rolled his eyes and said "That's Trevor."
Son also got Michael Brantley's autograph on an Indians hat. Need it on an Astro hat now.
Bauer really had a fantastic season last year. 2.21 ERA, 1.089 WHIP, led the AL in FIP & HR/9, struck out 11.9 K's per 9, is entering his age 28 year old season, there's a ton to like about him. I'd certainly love to have him on my favorite team (Brewers).
I don't care one way or the other about his Twitter persona. It just isn't something I pay attention to.
The guy is an exceptionally talented pitcher. He's also a royal douche. The girl that he recently provoked a much publicized twitter exchange with kicked his behind. Good for her. Maybe he'll grow up a little.
I am a lifelong Indians fan and resident of Ctown. I listen to a lot of sports talk radio lol. Generally, it seems that the fan base believes in his ability and feels he is a top pitcher - last year was a legit candidate for the Cy Young until he was injured. They support his scientific approach to pitching and knowledge of mechanics, but have tired of his personality ... He can be a gamer and tough, which the fans like, but then can be surly and eccentric. I'm sure its not always fair but that is how he comes off. There is no outcry to trade him or anything, but the drone incident in the playoffs in 2017, frequent Twitter outbursts, and the way he deals with the media is getting tiresome. Overall, I like him and am willing to take the bad with the good so to speak if he continues to win!
Similarly, I grew up in NE Ohio and remain a Cleveland fan despite living most of my life on the West Coast. I have much the same observations as Qhead. You can't dispute his abilities, intelligence and full efforts to use his intelligence and skill set to maximize his effectiveness. This aspect has been interesting to follow. And, he's been a gamer and a winner. So, in those respects, I'm a fan.
Those of us who heavily favor a team first approach have difficulties with some of his thought processes and actions. But the high intellect guys tend to have some similar traits (Richard Sherman/ Sheldon Cooper 
/ Bill Walton). Just different. He seems to have made progress with awareness of how his words and actions reflect his team (or lack of) approach but, while improved, there is still always some distance between him and teammates. If only I were smart enough to understand and relate to the struggle 
.
I don't seem to have a problem with him, and I see him basically every day in the off-season. People with nothing else going on in their lives who need drama to entertain themselves seem to have the most problems with Trevor.
Kyle Boddy posted:I don't seem to have a problem with him, and I see him basically every day in the off-season. People with nothing else going on in their lives who need drama to entertain themselves seem to have the most problems with Trevor.
That is because you are a jerk too, kyle.
Just kidding, I don't think trevor is a bad person at all but he is getting into some controversies. I think it is entertaining though, quite different from the white washed politically correct media trained guys.
I think the little banter with bregman was fun and even the pine tar controversy wasn't bad because finally an insider said something about an open secret.
With the girl he maybe went a little overboard i think though. A rebuttal if you attacked is fine but not like 50 tweets. Fire one shot back and then block her...
I wish he would wear pinstripes, maybe that will force DL to have a presence in the big apple area.
Astros perfect fit.
Kyle Boddy posted:I don't seem to have a problem with him, and I see him basically every day in the off-season. People with nothing else going on in their lives who need drama to entertain themselves seem to have the most problems with Trevor.
It’s not uncommon for a visible person’s public persona to be different from what the person is like in a private setting. Or the person has positive qualities that allow you to look past the cringe worthy moments.
I don't understand why anyone cares that much about anyone's public persona is the point. Feels to me that people have nothing going on in their lives and enjoy celebrity gossip and things going on with people they'll never meet, much less know.
Is there a “dislike button” on here?
Interesting article about him
Good read
Dominik85 posted:Interesting article about him
Thanks for sharing that, Dominik!
It's hard not to admire someone who is so dedicated to his craft. Let's face it, despite the raw talent he did flounder for a few years and he took the responsibility for his own career. The success he has had working with Rapsodo and high speed video has caused all of MLB to take notice and most teams now utilize that technology.
How many times have we seen young pitchers with "good stuff" not be able to harness that and have a successful career? Bauer's use of technology and his public documentation of his progress have been a definite factor in accelerating its usage throughout Major League baseball.
That being said, with everything I have read about him he's an abrasive personality. While some people admire his IDGAF attitude I think that ultimately it hurts him both personally and professionally. He probably wouldn't be the type of guy I would hang around with. But it's his life and he's free to choose to live it as he sees fit.
I admire the dedication to honing his trade but his attitude is horrible. I feel that there has to be some depression in that mentality. For him to continually say, I have no friends is scary. He has all the signs of depression, but maybe he overexaggerates it. Great player, not so great a guy.
Coach Koz posted:While some people admire his IDGAF attitude
The thing is that he GAF more than most people...everything he does is for attention and reeks of a self-image that says that he is entitled to be heard.
.PitchingFan posted:I admire the dedication to honing his trade but his attitude is horrible. I feel that there has to be some depression in that mentality. For him to continually say, I have no friends is scary. He has all the signs of depression, but maybe he overexaggerates it. Great player, not so great a guy.
I read an article about Bauer yesterday. I only read it because he trashed Chris Sale and it was in the local media. The article said a majority of his teammates openly dislike him.
Years ago I attempted to have a discussion with Mike Marshall on his website. Because I opened with I was going to disagree with him more than agree with him he called me a child abuser as a parent and coach. This was before I even explained what I believe and don’t believe.
Some people are just this socially dysfunctional. They’re also so narcissistic they can’t handle the idea anyone would disagree with them.
He called out doctoring the ball and went as far as demonstrating it in a game...big brass ones, kudos to him. I am not sure how I would behave if I lived in a fishbowl.
RJM posted:.PitchingFan posted:I admire the dedication to honing his trade but his attitude is horrible. I feel that there has to be some depression in that mentality. For him to continually say, I have no friends is scary. He has all the signs of depression, but maybe he overexaggerates it. Great player, not so great a guy.
I read an article about Bauer yesterday. I only read it because he trashed Chris Sale and it was in the local media. The article said a majority of his teammates openly dislike him.
Years ago I attempted to have a discussion with Mike Marshall on his website. Because I opened with I was going to disagree with him more than agree with him he called me a child abuser as a parent and coach. This was before I even explained what I believe and don’t believe.
Some people are just this socially dysfunctional. They’re also so narcissistic they can’t handle the idea anyone would disagree with them.
Would you trade him straight up for Price, with Red Sox eating Price's salary?
I don't think as harshly toward him as others have expressed here today and there is certainly no doubting his abilities and tenacity. That said, the article does shed new light that makes me think back and wonder. I have been part of many teams where a big win was tempered by the actions or aura of one "me" guy. Nothing worse. The Tribe has been winning but.. ?? I know the tribe was set on reducing payroll but still wonder if some of the mass exodus didn't have something to do with having a tempered environment (and, yes, I am aware that some of the young P's are benefiting from his help). It also comes to mind that Kluber was the trade target far more than Bauer. Was that in part because teams were far less interested in taking on everything that comes with Bauer? I don't think someone paying him top dollar is an issue, as was made evident by the Pads willingness to do so with "I don't hustle" Machado.
Go44dad posted:RJM posted:.PitchingFan posted:I admire the dedication to honing his trade but his attitude is horrible. I feel that there has to be some depression in that mentality. For him to continually say, I have no friends is scary. He has all the signs of depression, but maybe he overexaggerates it. Great player, not so great a guy.
I read an article about Bauer yesterday. I only read it because he trashed Chris Sale and it was in the local media. The article said a majority of his teammates openly dislike him.
Years ago I attempted to have a discussion with Mike Marshall on his website. Because I opened with I was going to disagree with him more than agree with him he called me a child abuser as a parent and coach. This was before I even explained what I believe and don’t believe.
Some people are just this socially dysfunctional. They’re also so narcissistic they can’t handle the idea anyone would disagree with them.
Would you trade him straight up for Price, with Red Sox eating Price's salary?
In the big picture Price isn’t worth the 7/210M. Pitching the Sox to a WS win made it worth it. I think Price is a jerk. I still believe he should apologize to Eckersley. But his teammates like him. Bauer’s teammates don’t like him. Team chemistry is important.
On talent and age alone, in a minute. All things considered, no.
RJM posted:Go44dad posted:RJM posted:Would you trade him straight up for Price, with Red Sox eating Price's salary?
In the big picture Price isn’t worth the 7/210M. Pitching the Sox to a WS win made it worth it. I think Price is a jerk. I still believe he should apologize to Eckersley. But his teammates like him. Bauer’s teammates don’t like him. Team chemistry is important.
On talent and age alone, in a minute. All things considered, no.
Fair
All his personality faults/brain works different/his construct of "everybody hates me" or whatever his social interactions are...I would like to see him follow through on the "I will never sign more than a one year contract" pledge he has repeatedly made.
Trevor went on a big twitter vendetta against Astros players digging out their old tweets
Dominik85 posted:Trevor went on a big twitter vendetta against Astros players digging out their old tweets
They deserve it. Tough.
RoadRunner posted:Dominik85 posted:Trevor went on a big twitter vendetta against Astros players digging out their old tweets
They deserve it. Tough.
Any player who has success in the Astros organization will now be questioned as a "cheater". Whether they deserve it or not.
And Trevor Bauer is an asshole.
Go44dad posted:RoadRunner posted:Dominik85 posted:Trevor went on a big twitter vendetta against Astros players digging out their old tweets
They deserve it. Tough.
Any player who has success in the Astros organization will now be questioned as a "cheater". Whether they deserve it or not.
And Trevor Bauer is an asshole.
Nah. Just the guys that cheated. Bauer is an imperfect human being. Part of what I love about him.
Funny battle between bauer and cole on Twitter
https://twitter.com/BauerOutag...339636256960513?s=19
Bauer to the Dodgers. Did they need him?
He’s got F-U money, talent, a big mouth and a following...I have no issues with him.
He’s very intelligent. Great pitcher. I root for him after reading his story of him being bullied and often looked at as “odd” due to the training tools and methods he used. I’m glad to have him in a Dodger uniform.
A fascinating interview from a couple years ago IMO.
It’s in podcast form. An interview by baseball writer Jeff Passan. HERE
Great for any team to land him, just wish it wasn't the blue. I am amused as some look at his body of work in total and criticize his contract. In looking at his progression and novel approach to improving his craft, to me the contract is well justified. If he is able to stay healthy and not post something that will distract the team and sport, he will be part of a rotation that can make the 98 Braves or 71 Orioles look like a joke.
Like most baseball fans I'm a little bit fickle.
I was ready to welcome Trevor and his baggage to Citi Field.
But now that he's a member of the best rotation in baseball, I'll be watching carefully to see if I can spot where he's hiding the sticky stuff that gave his spin rate such a big bump in 2020.
Pretty bad allegations against Bauer. Hopefully it is not as bad as it looks to be in the athletic article.
It's going to be difficult to spin that one.
@Dominik85 posted:Pretty bad allegations against Bauer. Hopefully it is not as bad as it looks to be in the athletic article.
Innocent until proven guilty.
@RoadRunner posted:Innocent until proven guilty.
Depends on the subject matter, doesn’t it?!?
A person may have a longer career being found guilty in court than cancel culture. If cancel culture gets you you’re done.
This should be a cautionary lesson to every young player - you just might be the smartest person in the room but nothing good can come from hooking up with some strange off the internet who's into freak time. How did he not see this ending up this way?
Best case now - he pays a huge settlement to get her to drop the charges and go away.
Worst case now - they open a case and he gets a year or more suspension from MLB. Manfred would jump at the chance to bury him.
@JCG posted:It's going to be difficult to spin that one.
Underrated post. Best I've seen in a while.
@RoadRunner posted:Innocent until proven guilty.
In the legal system, yes. Ray Rice was not convicted of the domestic violence charges against him, but he never played another game in the NFL.
@Francis7 posted:This should be a cautionary lesson to every young player - you just might be the smartest person in the room but nothing good can come from hooking up with some strange off the internet who's into freak time. How did he not see this ending up this way?
Best case now - he pays a huge settlement to get her to drop the charges and go away.
Worst case now - they open a case and he gets a year or more suspension from MLB. Manfred would jump at the chance to bury him.
This wasn't a strange woman he found off the internet. She is a former UCLA gymnast and law student.
She was his AGENT!
Wonder if any of you have seen the pictures of her.
Wait, are you saying Rachel Luba was the accuser?
@TPM posted:This wasn't a strange woman he found off the internet. She is a former UCLA gymnast and law student.
She was his AGENT!
Wonder if any of you have seen the pictures of her.
Wait - WHAT??!!
Rachel Luba is his agent and she is standing by him. News accounts say the accuser is a woman he met several months back on Instagram and has only been with twice.
Luba has also been rumored to be his GF so maybe that's the source of your confusion? Or is there something I am missing.
@JCG posted:Wait - WHAT??!!
Rachel Luba is his agent and she is standing by him. News accounts say the accuser is a woman he met several months back on Instagram and has only been with twice.
Luba has also been rumored to be his GF so maybe that's the source of your confusion? Or is there something I am missing.
Wait you are correct. She is/was his girlfriend and agent. He met the girl on the internet. The article I read wasn't really clear. Should have read the Atlantic. I really didn't pay much attention to this whole thing until I came across an article.
Regardless, he really needs to face the music. Enough with making excuses. No suspension.
If he were a football player he would be gone.
So for the misinformation. I think I was so angry I didn't read the entire article.
The heavy article sheds a lot of details from both the accuser and Bauer through texts.
@2022NYC posted:The heavy article sheds a lot of details from both the accuser and Bauer through texts.
Wow. I wish I had not read that.
I must be a little confused on the timeline in that article. Let me see if I have this right, he choked beat and sexually assaulted her while she was unconscious on their first meeting. She left the next day, they continued to communicate for a couple of weeks and she then came back to his house voluntarily to have consensual relations and he again choked and assaulted her? Am I reading this right?
I am going to reserve judgement until all of the facts are out because something here is just off a little.
There are obviously many people in these days who are into bdsm practices (especially after the shades of Grey movies) but even if she did ask for bdsm practices that still doesn't mean he can go off and seriously hurt a person.
@TPM posted:Wait you are correct. She is/was his girlfriend and agent. He met the girl on the internet. The article I read wasn't really clear. Should have read the Atlantic. I really didn't pay much attention to this whole thing until I came across an article.
Regardless, he really needs to face the music. Enough with making excuses. No suspension.
If he were a football player he would be gone.
So for the misinformation. I think I was so angry I didn't read the entire article.
Face the music how? He immediately came out and defended his innocence. Despite a very uncomfortable and graphic read, it seems like he has some pretty compelling evidence of his own.
If he did it, he's scum. If he didn't do it, he has no reason to cave.
In the NFL he would be suspended, cut, and end up signing with a contender as soon as his suspension was over.
@PABaseball posted:Face the music how? He immediately came out and defended his innocence. Despite a very uncomfortable and graphic read, it seems like he has some pretty compelling evidence of his own.
If he did it, he's scum. If he didn't do it, he has no reason to cave.
In the NFL he would be suspended, cut, and end up signing with a contender as soon as his suspension was over.
So true!
The Dodgers canceled his bobblehead night and stopped selling his jersey.
(Not a joke)
@2022NYC posted:The heavy article sheds a lot of details from both the accuser and Bauer through texts.
Hard to understand why anyone would assault someone else and think it was OK, nevermind thinking that the other person liked it. He imposed his darkest desires on someone and justified it as well, they didn't punch back.
Trevor Bauer needs counseling.
I am trying my best not be judgemental and I admit I am naive to this fetish, but TB is a smart man and celebrity and knows he is a mark and this is definitely not a first or second date activity even if using tinder
I will refrain from ascribing guilt/innocence or even from commenting on what people do in the bedroom (no matter how much I don't get it) because there is just so much we don't know about both sides of this story.
But, that aside, Bauer is done. He will never command the money he did nor will he every be as popular as he once was. (Even if it's proven she was on board). My son was a huge Bauer fan. He admired his passion and work ethic and slightly nerdy analytical approach to pitching. Now he's out. He said "worst case, he's a rapist. Best case, he's a freak. Either way I'm out" unsubscribed from his social media and dropped him from his fantasy baseball team. I suspect he isn't the only one.
You're only worth big money to the MLB if you have a fanbase/following. Think about how much flack Trout gets just because he doesn't want to do non-baseball stuff in the public eye...
@LousyLefty posted:I will refrain from ascribing guilt/innocence or even from commenting on what people do in the bedroom (no matter how much I don't get it) because there is just so much we don't know about both sides of this story.
But, that aside, Bauer is done. He will never command the money he did nor will he every be as popular as he once was. (Even if it's proven she was on board). My son was a huge Bauer fan. He admired his passion and work ethic and slightly nerdy analytical approach to pitching. Now he's out. He said "worst case, he's a rapist. Best case, he's a freak. Either way I'm out" unsubscribed from his social media and dropped him from his fantasy baseball team. I suspect he isn't the only one.
You're only worth big money to the MLB if you have a fanbase/following. Think about how much flack Trout gets just because he doesn't want to do non-baseball stuff in the public eye...
Good for your son, with all the problems in the world, our children don't need him as a role model.
JMO
@LousyLefty posted:I will refrain from ascribing guilt/innocence or even from commenting on what people do in the bedroom (no matter how much I don't get it) because there is just so much we don't know about both sides of this story.
But, that aside, Bauer is done. He will never command the money he did nor will he every be as popular as he once was. (Even if it's proven she was on board). My son was a huge Bauer fan. He admired his passion and work ethic and slightly nerdy analytical approach to pitching. Now he's out. He said "worst case, he's a rapist. Best case, he's a freak. Either way I'm out" unsubscribed from his social media and dropped him from his fantasy baseball team. I suspect he isn't the only one.
You're only worth big money to the MLB if you have a fanbase/following. Think about how much flack Trout gets just because he doesn't want to do non-baseball stuff in the public eye...
My son felt the same way and did the same thing…he is done with Bauer
Domingo Germán got an 81 game suspension and charges were never filed against him - although there were witnesses to his actions. That said, it wouldn't shock me if Bauer got at least the same.
@DD 2024 posted:Hard to understand why anyone would assault someone else and think it was OK, nevermind thinking that the other person liked it. He imposed his darkest desires on someone and justified it as well, they didn't punch back.
Trevor Bauer needs counseling.
hard to believe somebody would be assaulted, choked unconscious, raped, stay the night and then after a couple of weeks to reflect come back at midnight to do it over again....but I will withhold judgement as well since all parties involved seem to be beyond stupid.
@LousyLefty posted:I will refrain from ascribing guilt/innocence or even from commenting on what people do in the bedroom (no matter how much I don't get it) because there is just so much we don't know about both sides of this story.
But, that aside, Bauer is done. He will never command the money he did nor will he every be as popular as he once was. (Even if it's proven she was on board). My son was a huge Bauer fan. He admired his passion and work ethic and slightly nerdy analytical approach to pitching. Now he's out. He said "worst case, he's a rapist. Best case, he's a freak. Either way I'm out" unsubscribed from his social media and dropped him from his fantasy baseball team. I suspect he isn't the only one.
You're only worth big money to the MLB if you have a fanbase/following. Think about how much flack Trout gets just because he doesn't want to do non-baseball stuff in the public eye...
Wait what? i get most of this post but dropped him from the fantasy team? doesn't he have IR option he could move him to for this play out? i mean cmon you cant just drop a pitcher like that...he has a league to win!
A new article claims that she texted him after the first encounter that she enjoyed getting choked out and that the pain turned her on.
Still even if that is true it doesn't reflect well on Bauer that he went over the top so much and that he seeked out an encounter like that.
@Dominik85 posted:A new article claims that she texted him after the first encounter that she enjoyed getting choked out and that the pain turned her on.
Still even if that is true it doesn't reflect well on Bauer that he went over the top so much and that he seeked out an encounter like that.
if true i would say it changes things dramatically. Reference Dave Portnoy...
@old_school posted:hard to believe somebody would be assaulted, choked unconscious, raped, stay the night and then after a couple of weeks to reflect come back at midnight to do it over again....but I will withhold judgement as well since all parties involved seem to be beyond stupid.
Ugh, don't want to go there. Let's see what the courts decide.
Bauer got banned for two years without pay, I think that is the longest ban in mlb history
@Dominik85 posted:Bauer got banned for two years without pay, I think that is the longest ban in mlb history
without time served. manfried was out for blood.
as an aside, i'm a pitcher, science nerd and dodger fan so i'm partial to TB...at least his baseball content. He came out with a youtube blog today (i think before the announcement was made) that had, i think, some pure gold in it:
he was working with a trainer to measure stress and recovery on the ucl. to do this, they imaged his elbow and measured the ucl before throwing, after throwing and after a recovery workout to see how much it stretched. I think they mentioned that an increase of approximately 6% in ucl length correlated to a danger zone of snapping. I was listening to it on the way home so i didn't pay too close attention to the details, but it was a cool approach to a problem that has baffled baseball for years (why does the ucl get injured). I know this is the bash TB thread but i thought this would be interesting to the people here.
Bauer is a tool. Manfred is a tool. Let's see where the courts take this.
Based on the background articles I've read, this looks to be a lot of overreach by the Commissioner and his office on a very sensitive topic that has become a hot button in professional sports....as it should be. Domestic violence has no place in our society. Also, nobody here knows everything about this case, so this is going to be interesting. If I was Bauer, I'd call the the Commissioner's bluff on this.
JMO.
Fenway, your words "tool" should be change to "fool".
Bauer is an "insult" to the game of baseball. If he ever plays again, I would advise him not to cover 1B. What would Tommy L. do?
Bob
@Consultant posted:Fenway, your words "tool" should be change to "fool".
Bauer is an "insult" to the game of baseball. If he ever plays again, I would advise him not to cover 1B. What would Tommy L. do?
Bob
Granted, I’ll admit that I don’t know the guy personally, and made you do? But I do follow his content on social media along with Eric Simms. They got some really good stuff out there, and they do have a POSITIVE reach with the younger crowd a lot more than some may think. Between the two of those guys they make baseball more fun. That’s the real issue Manfred and MLB can’t seem to figure out. We like to glorify baseball players but, when you really think about it what is the intrinsic value of hitting or throwing a baseball? Bauer seems to be very transparent with the content he puts out there. With everything that’s been released in the public eye, it would seem like MLB jumped on a “hot-topic button” without actual evidence of it even happening. Come to find out the really bad stuff never happened and the actual event was consensual. Also, seems a little suspicious that MLB took their hard stance against Bauer after he gave them a huge black eye with the whole sticky stuff. I guess I’m old fashion and like to believe people should be innocent till actually proven guilty. As far as I’m aware Bauer has yet to be proven guilty of anything in a court of law; however, court of public opinion seems to not give a $*=t.
Jm2c and you don’t have to agree me, but from my point of view the guy is good for the game.
@ReluctantO'sFan posted:Granted, I’ll admit that I don’t know the guy personally, and made you do? But I do follow his content on social media along with Eric Simms. They got some really good stuff out there, and they do have a POSITIVE reach with the younger crowd a lot more than some may think. Between the two of those guys they make baseball more fun. That’s the real issue Manfred and MLB can’t seem to figure out. We like to glorify baseball players but, when you really think about it what is the intrinsic value of hitting or throwing a baseball? Bauer seems to be very transparent with the content he puts out there. With everything that’s been released in the public eye, it would seem like MLB jumped on a “hot-topic button” without actual evidence of it even happening. Come to find out the really bad stuff never happened and the actual event was consensual. Also, seems a little suspicious that MLB took their hard stance against Bauer after he gave them a huge black eye with the whole sticky stuff. I guess I’m old fashion and like to believe people should be innocent till actually proven guilty. As far as I’m aware Bauer has yet to be proven guilty of anything in a court of law; however, court of public opinion seems to not give a $*=t.
Jm2c and you don’t have to agree me, but from my point of view the guy is good for the game.
Your opinion may not be popular with some, but I think you are spot on. I agree with everything you said.
Bauer is probably the most innovative pitcher in MLB history. And almost all of his innovation is open sourced on YouTube. Innovators always generate lots of enemies who prefer the status quo.
Manfred is definitely the worst commissioner in MLB history. How do you have a commissioner who doesn't even like the game.
No point in commenting in detail on the allegations. Anyone who's actually read the court documents knows the situation. Those who haven't read the court documents will follow the Twitter mob.
MLB has a domestic violence policy. It is collectively bargained with the Union.
It is completely separate from what happens in a criminal or civil Court…or does not happen.
Contests and appeals are managed through an Arbitration process provided for in the agreement.
One major aspect going forward will be the position of the Union. Will they stand with Bauer?
For those expressing support for Bauer based on what has been reported or is on Social networking, I question how that makes any difference.
Did he violate the bargained for policy? If someone reads it, one finds it is awfully broad in its scope. What he does on You Tube has no relevance.
On the technical side, I think Bauer was/is good for the game. On his public persona side, I found him both annoying and entertaining until his current debacle. On what landed him in this mess - pick your side, I still don’t want him anywhere near my daughter.
And that’s the problem, having a job where your personal brand reflects on your team, union and MLB brand means he’ll likely never play in the show again. Consensual or not, if you play him, the game will lose some portion of audience and will receive some type of regular protests (not good for the game or the brands). Leave him out of baseball, and there’s basically no impact, enough time has gone by that he’s basically irrelevant.
Some choices don’t wash off regardless of opinion and a bell can’t be un-rung. I think Bauer’s MLB playing days are done, but I think we’re in for years of him throwing rocks at all aspects of the game.
@Consultant posted:Fenway, your words "tool" should be change to "fool".
Bauer is an "insult" to the game of baseball. If he ever plays again, I would advise him not to cover 1B. What would Tommy L. do?
Bob
What makes him a fool and an insult?
As Roger Dangerfield would say "NO RESPECT"!!!!from his teammates.
“no respect “ for the game. No Respect for woman.
Bauer definitely has done good things for baseball, especially explaining the modern way of playing in mlb to fans, by focusing and highlighting the positive sides of the modern game instead of just talking about the negative stuff like strikeouts, pace of play etc like many commentators still do.
However he also did quite a bit of very questionable stuff and even if his version that she asked for getting spanked is true it still speaks for a lack of self control or simply not caring that he beat her into hospital.
There are a lot of people who are into that kind of bedroom activities (as evidenced by the success of those shades of grey movies) but if you are actually hurting people even to the point of breaking bones than something is seriously wrong with you.
@infielddad posted:MLB has a domestic violence policy. It is collectively bargained with the Union.
It is completely separate from what happens in a criminal or civil Court…or does not happen.
Contests and appeals are managed through an Arbitration process provided for in the agreement.
One major aspect going forward will be the position of the Union. Will they stand with Bauer?
For those expressing support for Bauer based on what has been reported or is on Social networking, I question how that makes any difference.
Did he violate the bargained for policy? If someone reads it, one finds it is awfully broad in its scope. What he does on You Tube has no relevance.
If this is the case, then maybe it’s time to negotiate a new policy.
@RoadRunner posted:If this is the case, then maybe it’s time to negotiate a new policy.
Why does there need to be a new policy?
This one has been in place for 5-6 years and appears to have been effective?
What needs to change in your view?
Understanding MLB has done its own investigation which lead to this result, and from what is in the public media so far, I tend to think the MLBPA has been put in a very challenging position by Bauer’s admitted conduct alone.
Could the MLB investigation have more?
How far can he throw a football? The NFL is a better workplace for him.
@infielddad posted:Why does there need to be a new policy?
This one has been in place for 5-6 years and appears to have been effective?What needs to change in your view?
Because they suspended a man for two years without pay who is not facing criminal charges. He's not even facing any civil suits. Not a single person can produce enough compelling evidence to produce charges. Regardless of whether you like him or not or where you stand on the issue - at the very least that has to be pretty weird that the governing body of baseball thinks otherwise?
Without going too deep into this at the very least the women coming forward are very unreliable. He abused them, but they continued to reach out for the next 3 years? I don't know. I just don't see how there is enough obvious evidence to say yes he's clearly an abuser.
That is my issue, if there is not enough to even go to trial, how is there enough to suspend him without pay for years?
I think he's a great pitcher. I also think he's a weird guy and don't personally care for the showboating and teenage social media antics. I just can't wrap my head a two year suspension. I don't know the details of MLB's policy, but it's either a bad policy or they are really reaching.
IMO - it's all optics. Baseball can live without Bauer. Can they live with being cancelled for embracing an abuser?
@2022NYC posted:How far can he throw a football? The NFL is a better workplace for him.
That comment is both funny and also apparently under appreciated.
Pete Rose was banned from baseball for gambling. What he did was legal, except in baseball.
The NBA did the same some years back with a referee.
MLB players get suspended for fighting, bean ball exchanges, violations of the collectively bargained drug program etc and none of these are crimes, or punished by laws outside of the baseball collective bargaining agreement.
Every employer has sexual harassment guidelines. An employee can be terminated for violating those employer expectations even if there are no Court charges (criminally or civilly). Executives at Fox and CNN are examples.
If Bauer appeals through arbitration, MLB must prove his violation(s) and the conduct justified the suspension.
This is very much at the beginning stages. I would propose that rights and responsibilities in the employment setting are rarely governed by criminal or civil proceedings, especially in the face of a collective bargaining agreement
i am no fan of Manfred or MLB. I have seen how the business of baseball does not reflect the “great American pastime” image it tries to portray, especially in their past dealings with powerless MILB players not covered or protected by the union.
Bauer is not those who are powerless. In a sense, IMO, Manfred and Bauer might, for very different reasons, deserve to be in this battle
@infielddad posted:Why does there need to be a new policy?
This one has been in place for 5-6 years and appears to have been effective?What needs to change in your view?
Understanding MLB has done its own investigation which lead to this result, and from what is in the public media so far, I tend to think the MLBPA has been put in a very challenging position by Bauer’s admitted conduct alone.
Could the MLB investigation have more?
Respectfully,
1. Why does there need to be a new policy? Because if a person is able to falsely accuse another of breaking the law and deprive another human of earning a living, that’s un-American IMO. How would you feel if your child was falsely accused of something and it cost him his job?
2. What needs to change in your view? I don’t have a copy of the MLBPA agreement/policy, therefore I cannot speak intelligently on the matter. However, based on your 1st comment stating that the policy is “awfully broad” I did make an inference that there might be room for change.
3. I agree that the PA has been put in a challenging position by Bauer’s deviant sexual behavior. There are many deviant sexual behaviors I don’t agree with. Should those people be marginalized, and stripped of their positions? I don’t think so.
4. Could the MLB investigation have more? If they do, why keep it a secret? Bauer has already done more than “kiss and tell”.
@PABaseball posted:IMO - it's all optics. Baseball can live without Bauer. Can they live with being cancelled for embracing an abuser?
They cancelled the all-star game in Atlanta to punish them for a law they clearly didn't read...all baseball cares about is how they are perceived. Truth is the last item of relevance in the investigation.
@RoadRunner posted:Respectfully,
1. Why does there need to be a new policy? Because if a person is able to falsely accuse another of breaking the law and deprive another human of earning a living, that’s un-American IMO. How would you feel if your child was falsely accused of something and it cost him his job?
2. What needs to change in your view? I don’t have a copy of the MLBPA agreement/policy, therefore I cannot speak intelligently on the matter. However, based on your 1st comment stating that the policy is “awfully broad” I did make an inference that there might be room for change.
3. I agree that the PA has been put in a challenging position by Bauer’s deviant sexual behavior. There are many deviant sexual behaviors I don’t agree with. Should those people be marginalized, and stripped of their positions? I don’t think so.4. Could the MLB investigation have more? If they do, why keep it a secret? Bauer has already done more than “kiss and tell”.
I’m confused by your stating he is “falsely” accused.
At least with woman #1, Bauer and his attorneys indicated many of her allegations of abuse were true. The defense, for criminal liability, was the seemingly confirmed conduct was consensual.
There is just a big problem today with "punishment" from the court of public opinion before anything is proven in court. Johnny Depp just lost 22 million based on someone's word...which is looking a little questionable at best. If the court ruled something was consensual, he shouldn't be punished. Is it something most people look favorably on? No. That said, I have never understood the whole, "I learned my lesson 550X later and now they should pay" thing. Not agreeing with someone's choices, and taking away their livelihood are two different things. In sports, two years later a career could be over. If he is ever convicted of something, that is a different story. JMO
There have been no Court rulings which relate to the MLB determination and suspension.
The DA indicated they would not file criminal charges because they did not feel they could prove “ beyond a reasonable doubt.” There was no hearing or trial. This was woman #1.
The only trial related to the woman #1seeking a Restraining Order to keep Bauer away from her. That failed because the evidence did not show him trying to be in contact with her and the judge finding her sworn declaration to have been misleading.
There are now 2 more women who have come forward.
One might expect the MLB investigation went beyond woman #1.
@infielddad posted:Every employer has sexual harassment guidelines. An employee can be terminated for violating those employer expectations even if there are no Court charges (criminally or civilly). Executives at Fox and CNN are examples.
This is what makes it a bad policy IMO. I don't understand how MLB can look at the same evidence and say yes he's an abuser.
I also don't understand the Dodger fans saying we don't want him - as if Urias, the next man up, wasn't suspended for domestic abuse as well. But that is a bit separate from this topic.
Bauer is a union member. Historically, Marvin Miller and the union created free agency which now allows Bauer to make $40,000,000 per year.
That same union which gave Bauer so much free agency leverage and power also negotiated and agreed to the terms of the domestic violence policy he is charged with violating.
Bauer cannot take all the benefits his union created but not be potentially accountable for conduct which might not conform to that in the agreement.
And ENOUGH!
@infielddad posted:And ENOUGH!
I guess you have spoken...
@baseballhs posted:I guess you have spoken...
That doesn’t mean you have to listen
Ha! oh, I know and No one has ever accused me of being a submissive person. This just kind of makes me laugh when someone is sticking up for poor women but at the same time speaking with such authority about what can be said or by who. We are a baseball site, I'd rather stick to that anyway. Maybe I’m misreading it.
@Consultant posted:As Roger Dangerfield would say "NO RESPECT"!!!!from his teammates.
“no respect “ for the game. No Respect for woman.
Honestly, I could care less about Bauer, I just responded earlier to a post that really should have no bearing on the game of baseball. Like I said before you don't have to agree with me, but the guy is good for baseball. MLB upholding some form of moral high ground; please, I ain't buying that bull$#*t. I'm old enough to remember certain players that were and still are black-balled by the league. We live in the Age of Spin, and I ain't talking about a baseball.
Now for the real issue at hand. I have tried over and over for the last couple days to ignore this post, but the pure irony is just killing me and I can't take it no more. As an avid movie buff, and huge fan of Caddy Shack, this post must be corrected.
Jacob RODNEY Cohen..... talk about No Respect
@ReluctantO'sFan posted:Now for the real issue at hand. I have tried over and over for the last couple days to ignore this post, but the pure irony is just killing me and I can't take it no more. As an avid movie buff, and huge fan of Caddy Shack, this post must be corrected.
Jacob RODNEY Cohen..... talk about No Respect
🤣🤣🤣 good one!
Looking at it from MLB's perspective isn't this the easiest way to cover all their bases. ( Pun intended 😃)
Throw the biggest penalty possible at Bauer now and let him appeal his way back into the game.
If more damning evidence and additional victims pop up then MLB can pat themselves on the back and show they are on the forefront of social justice causes.
If Bauer and his attorneys can prove he didn't violate the policy then an independent arbiter will probably be the one to decide what if any penalty is deserved.
While it's not 100% fair, it's reality that the backlash MLB would face for letting him back too soon would be far more damaging then taking a stand now and relenting later.
"It’s not personal, Sonny. It’s strictly business."
“Maybe I’m misreading it.”
Really good call.
@infielddad posted:Bauer is a union member. Historically, Marvin Miller and the union created free agency which now allows Bauer to make $40,000,000 per year.
That same union which gave Bauer so much free agency leverage and power also negotiated and agreed to the terms of the domestic violence policy he is charged with violating.
Bauer cannot take all the benefits his union created but not be potentially accountable for conduct which might not conform to that in the agreement.
And ENOUGH!
Today's MLBPA is not Marvin Miller's MLBPA. Miller's MLBPA wouldn't have been out-negotiated by a chump like Manfred and folded like a cheap suit once missing game checks became a possibility. You besmirch Miller's name by even associating him with today's MLBPA.
Looks like the lawsuits have been settled and Bauer is free to talk about it. I’m not a fan of his, but after seeing the evidence I do feel bad for him. He was set up and falsely accused.
i just watched his 4 min video. worth a watch.
Jacob Nix sounds like a classy guy. Though I guess that was already apparent when he got his ass kicked breaking and entering into someone's house.
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:i just watched his 4 min video. worth a watch.
I'm sure more will come out in the coming days. Sounds like all he was guilty of was a poor choice of groupie.
Amusing to go back and read prior comments now that information is becoming public. Lots of comments didn’t age very well.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Looks like the lawsuits have been settled and Bauer is free to talk about it. I’m not a fan of his, but after seeing the evidence I do feel bad for him. He was set up and falsely accused.
I’m also not a fan of Bauer but here is more evidence that supports a set up. Would be interesting to know who orchestrated the character assassination on him. Like him or not, I don’t know how anyone can be okay with this:
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@adbono posted:I’m also not a fan of Bauer but here is more evidence that supports a set up. Would be interesting to know who orchestrated the character assassination on him. Like him or not, I don’t know how anyone can be okay with this:
I hope he is able to sue the "journalist" and The Athletic.
The text messages documenting the setup are disturbing.
Did she file a police report?
the whole story is a just snapshot of the sad state of affairs we live in....I certainly hope the Phillies sign him for next year.
@adbono posted:I’m also not a fan of Bauer but here is more evidence that supports a set up. Would be interesting to know who orchestrated the character assassination on him. Like him or not, I don’t know how anyone can be okay with this:
That tweet is not accurate. Molly Knight did not report that Bauer fractured the woman's skull. She replied to a tweet about the story "not possible to consent to a fractured skull" from her personal account. She later deleted that tweet. Additionally, The Athletic never reported that "Bauer fractured the woman's skull", they reported what the woman said was in her declaration ("signs of a basilar skull fracture"). What she didn't tell them was that the CT scan report attached to that declaration found no evidence of a fracture.
Bauer sued The Athletic, Deadspin, and others for defamation. Eventually, The Athletic added an editor's note to the article to clarify that the woman's CT scan report showed no evidence of a fracture as part of the settlement where no money was exchanged.
I am more inclined to believe what was stated in court documents than any story written by a “journalist”
It never ends - almost like commitment to the bit taken to the extreme. Every headline is something along the lines of "Trevor Bauer Settles with Accuser" implying that he paid her to make it go away.
Heyman, Olney, Rosenthal and the worm Passan. Four of the most prominent names in baseball "journalism". None of them have said a word. Shouldn't the Cy Young being cleared be a good thing for MLB? Shouldn't they be happy none of those terrible acts took place? You would think it would be a good time to celebrate nothing tragic actually took place.
Proof that they would rather die on that hill than admit it was nothing more than sensationalism and clickbait.
I don't care how good he is at baseball - if the top brass decides it's not good for business it will not happen. If he were not an internet troll, a critic of MLB, a conservative I can assure you it would not have dragged on this long.
Four women have made sexual assault claims against Bauer. There’s more than this one woman to the big story. It’s likely going to take a desperate team willing to risk a PR hit for Bauer to get back in the majors.
@RJM posted:Four women have made sexual assault claims against Bauer. There’s more than this one woman to the big story. It’s likely going to take a desperate team willing to risk a PR hit for Bauer to get back in the majors.
Four women with no evidence to support their story, claimed that Bauer may have assaulted them in the past.
My biggest complaint with this story, is the lack of follow-up by the "journalist" and publications that were very quick to assume Bauer's guilt. The same journalist are no where to be found when he present overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The info he produced in the video is sickening to hear.
All I care about is what the MLB investigation and arbitrator came up with in their investigation that made them suspend him. Obviously a player doesn't need to be found guilty in a court of law for the league to take action. I don't believe the league which doesn't have subpoena power would have access to those txts.
I agree that because of who he is and his previous history, he's not exactly beloved in the league. But I'd have to think something came up in their investigation came up for them to suspend him for that length of time, and I don't think the Dodgers would basically throw money down the drain to release him.
I don't think this is over. I wouldn't be surprised if details from MLB's investigation start to leak at some point.
@Ster posted:Four women with no evidence to support their story, claimed that Bauer may have assaulted them in the past.
My biggest complaint with this story, is the lack of follow-up by the "journalist" and publications that were very quick to assume Bauer's guilt. The same journalist are no where to be found when he present overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The info he produced in the video is sickening to hear.
Four issues. Chances are where there’s smoke there’s at least a PR problem. Four women didn’t just randomly select Bauer as a target.
@RJM posted:Four issues. Chances are where there’s smoke there’s at least a PR problem. Four women didn’t just randomly select Bauer as a target.
That’s true. But if someone was trying to orchestrate the end of Bauer’s career they would arrange to have multiple women make allegations to add weight to it. I can’t say for sure that’s the case but it’s certainly possible.
Well yes of course they didn't randomly select him. They all made their claims after he signed the highest AAV contract in MLB history. No claims when he was a lowly arbitration-eligible player.
@nycdad posted:All I care about is what the MLB investigation and arbitrator came up with in their investigation that made them suspend him. Obviously a player doesn't need to be found guilty in a court of law for the league to take action. I don't believe the league which doesn't have subpoena power would have access to those txts.
I agree that because of who he is and his previous history, he's not exactly beloved in the league. But I'd have to think something came up in their investigation came up for them to suspend him for that length of time, and I don't think the Dodgers would basically throw money down the drain to release him.
I don't think this is over. I wouldn't be surprised if details from MLB's investigation start to leak at some point.
I have many questions about this situations.
1) Like you, I would love to see the evidence that MLB used to base the two year suspension. Did they have access to some of the information that Bauer presented in his video? Did they simply rely on the statements and accusations from Lindsey Hill?
2) I would like to know why the MLB demanded a two year suspension for Bauer and yet only a 20 game suspension for Aroldis Chapman when there was actual evidence supporting the charges against Chapman.
3) I would like to know why there wasn't a single MLB team (all of which need pitchers) that was willing to sign a former Cy Young award winner to even a minor league deal? There are a long list of players that have had punishments handed down due to the MLB policy against domestic violence. Aroldis Chapman, Marcell Ozuna, Domingo German, Roberto Osuna, Julio Urias, and a handful of other players faced similar accusations and were suspended, but had no problem continuing their playing careers. What is it about Bauer that has a former Cy Young winner essentially blacklisted from MLB baseball teams.
4) I would like to know why reputable MLB writers that were quick to villainize Bauer at the time of the suspension have no interest in taking up this story today when all of the evidence makes it clear that Bauer was the victim of a scam for money?
@auberon posted:Well yes of course they didn't randomly select him. They all made their claims after he signed the highest AAV contract in MLB history. No claims when he was a lowly arbitration-eligible player.
Then he was seen as a vulnerable, easy target based on his behavior. A lot of athletes are making a lot of money and aren’t targets.
@Ster posted:I have many questions about this situations...
If the courts did not have any evidence from Hill that means MLB did not either. So yeah, maybe they didn't have the power to subpoena texts, but it also means they were taking the word of (at the very least) an unreliable character instead of using hard evidence - which as we've come to find out is important especially when you put it into the context of his career trajectory. The exact reason MLB should stay out of these types of things - not because they were misguided, but because they don't actually have a clue and it's based on whichever side tells a more compelling story. Which is the public going to side with? Misguided young girl looking for love on the short end of a power dynamic or known internet troll with a penchant for acting out and not falling in line.