Tweet on 2022 decommits

@DanJ posted:

One simple solution would be to get rid of the word "commitment."  Stop using it.  The kids have made it extremely clear for years now that they have no clue what the word means; that it largely means nothing to them.  It's mostly a matter of changing the tweets up a little.

I am very excited and blessed to announce that I've told @StateU that my current plan of as today is to eventually play baseball for them.  And go to their classes.  Unless I find something I deem better or StateU's coach finds someone he deems better, there's a decent chance I'll be wearing a StateU jersey for at least one semester. I want to say thank you to my family, friends, and coaches who have supported and coddled me through everything and I hope they'll stand by me when either I or StateU's coach inevitably sees greener pastures. #stateuforlife

Problem solved.

I think the schools do exactly the same.  We want you here.  We see you being a contributor....wait here is another kid who looks just like you, we will commit him too and decide later which one works out.

If the schools and the players do it, then what is the problem.  They both know that the player can leave or that the school can over-commit.  Equal opportunity bad decision.  I say the recruiting process is like dating and the commitment is like getting engaged.  You can give the ring but there is nothing binding until the ceremony and the person says by the power vested in me you are now man and wife.  Up and until then you are just trusting each other.  The girl is the college because she has nothing invested and the guy is the player because he invests in the ring.  Even after you say I do you can both get out of the marriage but it will probably cost you something.  You can stay in a bad marriage if you want but it won't be the same.

I just don't see why most of you act like the coaches are the bad guys.  I've seen so many guys date bad girls but when you try to explain they don't listen because they are "in love."  No different.  It is both.  I don't see the NCAA ever moving the NLI dates because it does not help either.  And let's be honest it is still not binding.  No court is going to make a kid go where he does not want to go and no kid, in his right mind, is going to legally fight to go to a college that he will never play.

We just have to keep preaching do your due diligence to both sides.  I know just as many kids who left a college or de-committed as I do kids who were forced to leave.

@baseballhs posted:

I think the schools do exactly the same.  We want you here.  We see you being a contributor....wait here is another kid who looks just like you, we will commit him too and decide later which one works out.

Spot on. That’s exactly what they do.

Presumably the idea is that if binding NLIs could be offered earlier, coaches wouldn't do it (because they wouldn't want to legally commit to younger players), and thus, there would be fewer early offers altogether.  Because what would a coach say to a HS junior:  I want you to commit, but I'm not willing to give you an NLI?

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I'm a fan of the idea of making commitments binding, but how do HA schools handle kids who don't qualify? Heck, how do non-HA schools handle it?

Isn't there a clause in the NLI that says it's contingent upon their being admitted to the school?

Most HA schools have the “pre-read” process well oiled.  I think it works.  While there is always risk, in the few years I watched kids go through it, I haven’t seen failures for those who followed the rules.  This goes for D1 and D3.  For some D1 schools they give guidelines or mile-markers to hit to stay on track.  

So, if anything, HA with an admissions screening process is actually a good step in keeping commitments on a leash.   If a kid gets a verbal from a school with high acadmeic admissions standards without any academic guidance or discussion, well then that is a red flag IMO and reflects poorly on all sides.

@baseballhs posted:

No one is putting a gun to their head but that the way the game is played.  The problem is that is again, more of an advantage for the coach and less so for the kid.  The unwritten rule is that the kid doesn't reach out to schools anymore and schools don't reach out the him.  The coach just keeps on recruiting and committing and over committing.  A kid we know just became the 25th commit for a year at a P5.  That doesn't even account for transfers.  Someone is going to get the short end of the stick....won't be the school.

Case a wide need, throw some back.

Again, what is the definition of committing?

It will be different for the coach and the player.

IMHO, the difference is the financial investment.

Player and Parent look at their initial investment and negotiate a verbal commit.

Coach extends his hand and says "You have a potential deal"

Player then goes on social media and post, I've committed to school ABC.

This is the cart before the horse as for most early commits are based on limited analytics and projection.

Let's add a little complexity.  What if the coach leaves the school, should the new coach be bound to the contract of the previous coach for a verbal commit of a 9th grader?

IMHO, signing future date contracts that are 3 to 5 years out does not make sense.

IMHO, expanding the NLI period from Senior year to Junior and Senior year might provide better perceived results.

Note, nothing if perfect, the debate is interesting

@anotherparent posted:

Isn't there a clause in the NLI that says it's contingent upon their being admitted to the school?

I have no idea. By the time most athletes sign their NLI though I'd think everyone involved would have a clear picture on their ability to be accepted to a school.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I'm a fan of the idea of making commitments binding, but how do HA schools handle kids who don't qualify? Heck, how do non-HA schools handle it?

If the commit is binding, how is that different than signing the NLI?

@PitchingFan posted:

If the schools and the players do it, then what is the problem.  They both know that the player can leave or that the school can over-commit.  Equal opportunity bad decision.  I say the recruiting process is like dating and the commitment is like getting engaged.  You can give the ring but there is nothing binding until the ceremony and the person says by the power vested in me you are now man and wife.  Up and until then you are just trusting each other.  The girl is the college because she has nothing invested and the guy is the player because he invests in the ring.  Even after you say I do you can both get out of the marriage but it will probably cost you something.  You can stay in a bad marriage if you want but it won't be the same.

I just don't see why most of you act like the coaches are the bad guys.  I've seen so many guys date bad girls but when you try to explain they don't listen because they are "in love."  No different.  It is both.  I don't see the NCAA ever moving the NLI dates because it does not help either.  And let's be honest it is still not binding.  No court is going to make a kid go where he does not want to go and no kid, in his right mind, is going to legally fight to go to a college that he will never play.

We just have to keep preaching do your due diligence to both sides.  I know just as many kids who left a college or de-committed as I do kids who were forced to leave.

@PitchingFan Common sense.  You kept this simple.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

@PitchingFan Common sense.  You kept this simple.

I agree. The problem is what is missing on both sides of the equation : accountability

@adbono posted:

I agree. The problem is what is missing on both sides of the equation : accountability

But is it a problem?  I'm not so sure.  The coaches don't want to be held accountable.  The players don't want to be held accountable.

@DanJ posted:

But is it a problem?  I'm not so sure.  The coaches don't want to be held accountable.  The players don't want to be held accountable.

It’s a problem because it’s a reflection of our society. Nobody is being held accountable for their decisions and actions - many of which have an adverse impact on others. Baseball is just a microcosm that reflects a much bigger problem IMO.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

If the commit is binding, how is that different than signing the NLI?

Not really sure, tbh. My son likely won't end up at a school that has NLI's. Do I think there is a problem with overrecruiting? Yup! Is it the coach's fault? Somewhat. Is it the player fault? Somewhat. I wish there were a better way to do it, but I just don't see a practical change that could be made. 

I think i've shared son's story on here and his early commit summer prior to Jr year. It was a mistake and i think we learned a lot from it. No handbook, and the whole tribal knowledge thing aside...people will do what they think is best for them and all we can do is give them opinions and feedback on our pasts. It worked out and was really the best thing that happened to him along the way...i probably was the reason he felt compelled to do it along with other friends who were blue chips and already committed.

PS: Coaches hold all the cards and the one who recruited him got fired before he showed up early that summer to get started at Clemson so lots of things happen along the way and no, its not all fair ....you just have to deal with it and make chicken salad out of chicken $h1t.

Question that I am interested in hearing the responses as I ponder this all the time. Would you rather have the commitment process for baseball as it is now where when a player commits, the player supposedly stops communication with other coaches and other coaches supposedly stop recruiting that player or would you rather have it like football, where commitment really does not mean anything and recruitment carries on? I started thinking about this again with the early football signing day yesterday and the kids that flipped schools at the last minute.

Most in the sports world are intrigued with the story of Deion Sanders getting the #1 recruit from FSU.

https://theathletic.com/news/d...ng-day/eAkyUtzE5LjU/

Cannot ever imagine this happening in baseball.  No way would a top recruit go to a mid-major rather than P5 powerhouse.  But the thing that stands out to me is no one is bashing Sanders for STEALING or as they say flipping the committed player from FSU to Jackson State.

If this was baseball, many of you would be up in arms that a committed player should have to go where he is committed.  Even Nick Saban said, "I'm not going to make any comments about what happened.  I don't know the background or details about what happened, but everybody has a right to make those choices and decisions."

No one said anything because it’s both common and acceptable in football for the most part. Baseball coaches find out you are talking to other coaches and you’ll get a call. My son even got calls of disapproval for playing in showcases after he committed.

@baseballhs posted:

No one said anything because it’s both common and acceptable in football for the most part. Baseball coaches find out you are talking to other coaches and you’ll get a call. My son even got calls of disapproval for playing in showcases after he committed.

I do agree with the general premise that in baseball this isn't very common. That being said it is all about where you are on the scale. If you are the #2 ranked HS player in the nation you can play, showcase and or change your commitment anytime you want. There will be a line around the corner to give you a place to play if you want to discuss. that is just a basic supply and demand situation.

@adbono posted:

It’s a problem because it’s a reflection of our society. Nobody is being held accountable for their decisions and actions - many of which have an adverse impact on others. Baseball is just a microcosm that reflects a much bigger problem IMO.

The challenge, some might say the initial decision was made with limited information and situations can change in 3 years (14u -> 17u) of player.

I'm still trying to figure out why anybody would sign a contract that could be 3 to 4 years out.

If they allow NLI signing in the players Junior Year of High School, it might give all parties enough time to make a better decision.

Note, the articles on d1baseball.com might help shed some light about where this might go.

All good.

@PitchingFan posted:

Most in the sports world are intrigued with the story of Deion Sanders getting the #1 recruit from FSU.

https://theathletic.com/news/d...ng-day/eAkyUtzE5LjU/

Cannot ever imagine this happening in baseball.  No way would a top recruit go to a mid-major rather than P5 powerhouse.  But the thing that stands out to me is no one is bashing Sanders for STEALING or as they say flipping the committed player from FSU to Jackson State.

If this was baseball, many of you would be up in arms that a committed player should have to go where he is committed.  Even Nick Saban said, "I'm not going to make any comments about what happened.  I don't know the background or details about what happened, but everybody has a right to make those choices and decisions."

I haven't seen anyone bashing coach prime, but I have seen a few coaches elude to promises of specific NIL contracts are against the rules. I don't really follow college football and didn't even know yesterday was the early signing day. Just caught a few quotes on Twitter and the radio

Almost every P5 football team flipped someone and nearly all of them bragged about it on social media in some way or another.

@ARCEKU21  My son personally loved not having to take any more phone calls once he committed (August before his junior year). He is very reserved/shy and that part of recruiting (i.e. talking) was no fun for him. He was lightly recruited going into his sophomore year and it got crazy going into his junior year. I can’t imagine how much pressure he would have felt to commit young if he had gotten a ton of attention in 8th or 9th grade.  

@PTWood posted:

@ARCEKU21  My son personally loved not having to take any more phone calls once he committed (August before his junior year). He is very reserved/shy and that part of recruiting (i.e. talking) was no fun for him. He was lightly recruited going into his sophomore year and it got crazy going into his junior year. I can’t imagine how much pressure he would have felt to commit young if he had gotten a ton of attention in 8th or 9th grade.  

Same. That is exactly when my son committed.  He had been doing calls for a year and it was taking a major toll on him. After he did, it was like a weight off his shoulders.  He hated making the calls and the pressure associated with making a decision and further complicating the decision when new coaches reached out.

@PTWood @baseballhs   My son was the same way. He is also has a reserved personality. He started getting lots of interest in the fall of his freshman year. Everything took off really fast after the PG 14u National and then from doing some events for his travel organizations that had a bunch of D1 coaches there. He was gracious of the attention from the schools, but it's just not his thing. And he has a pretty good Spidey sense. So he knew when a school was blowing smoke or trying to string him along. Calling coaches after he committed was one of the hardest things he had to do. He does tend to take things very personal, so he said he felt like he was letting people down. I told him that its a business. They will just move on to the next name on the list.

And man, you learn a lot about a coach depending on how they react when you call to say you've decided to go somewhere else. Both my son and his sister had to do it. Most coaches were great. Some were indifferent ("Thanks" and then they just got off the phone). And a few were downright awful with one flat out telling my daughter she wouldn't play where she committed and one leaving such a bad taste in my son's mouth that he never would have considered going there is something had happened to his original commitment. Ironically, the coach that told my daughter she would never play was a Patriot league coach; my daughter went to the Big 10 and started on a team that spent the last two years in and around the top 25 nationally (she's not playing this year with a back injury that's looking more and more like a pars fracture). Joke was on that coach. LOL

@PTWood posted:

And man, you learn a lot about a coach depending on how they react when you call to say you've decided to go somewhere else. Both my son and his sister had to do it. Most coaches were great. Some were indifferent ("Thanks" and then they just got off the phone). And a few were downright awful with one flat out telling my daughter she wouldn't play where she committed and one leaving such a bad taste in my son's mouth that he never would have considered going there is something had happened to his original commitment. Ironically, the coach that told my daughter she would never play was a Patriot league coach; my daughter went to the Big 10 and started on a team that spent the last two years in and around the top 25 nationally (she's not playing this year with a back injury that's looking more and more like a pars fracture). Joke was on that coach. LOL

Fortunately my son all had understanding coaches. But I will never forget back when I was going through the process out of JUCO, I had one coach who got really nasty with me on the phone. Yelling at me and pretty much F bombed up and down the school I had chosen. Told me I wasted his time, blah, blah, blah. I sat there on the phone trying to figure out how to get off the call. I think I finally just thanked him for his time and hung up. That still sticks with me today.