Two Strike Hitting

What's the count? o-2? 1-2? 2-2? 3-2? Am I a power hitter? How fast does the Pitcher throw? Does he have a nasty slider that he can throw for a strike on any count? Does he like to throw inside and put people on their butt? How many people are on base? What base are they on? Will a ground ball do my job? How did I get to two strikes? Do I need a fly ball to score a run? How many outs are there? These are all things I think are important. What was the hitter's job when he went to the plate in the first place? Many times a hitter's two strike approach should be the same as his 0 or 1 strike approach. Sometimes his job is just to make contact.

Ok...

Care to elaborate on a certain situation? Again, no matter the count, I always choke up with two strikes. I think that no matter what, the hitter's job ALWAYS has to be to make contact with two strikes. In other words, do what you have to do to put the ball in play.

Again, Mic, you ask some good questions and we can answer them all, but maybe we should go one at a time. Any one in particular you want to discuss?

quote:

Originally posted by beemax:
Ok...

Care to elaborate on a certain situation? Again, no matter the count, I always choke up with two strikes. I think that no matter what, the hitter's job ALWAYS has to be to make contact with two strikes. In other words, do what you have to do to put the ball in play.

Again, Mic, you ask some good questions and we can answer them all, but maybe we should go one at a time. Any one in particular you want to discuss?

Okay. Just for example. I would say if I was down 1 run in the bottom of the 9th with 1 out and runners on 1st and 3rd, I would not want someone at the plate "just trying to make contact," but that's just my opinion. I would rather have themtry to hit a fly ball or home run than just make contact and hit itno a double play and we're going home. If he happens to swing and miss or takes strike three on a pitch down in the zone, I still have a chance to tie the game with the next hitter. Now, if the next hitter gets two strikes, then your approach would be fine with me.

Another scenario, tie ball game bottom of the 9th no outs, Derrick Lee, Aramis Ramirez, Mark DeRosa coming up. I want the first two swinging for the downs if they get a pitch to do it on ANY count. If the first 2 go down, I want DeRosa trying to go yard until he gets two strikes, but then I'd want him to be defensive, but not to choke up so if the Pitcher threw a mistake he could still hit it out of the park. But that's just my opinion and that is what I meant a while back when I said it was up to the Manager what the hitter does in some circumstances.

Okay Mic,

We are not talking situational hitting here. I already have a thread on that. This is purely TWO STRIKE hitting.

With your first scenario, my thinking is that striking out does nothing, so I would rather take my chances putting the ball in play with two strikes. Especially with a runner on third and less than two out. In this situation, down one at home in the ninth, the infield is probably playing in because the thinking is usually "play for the win on the road and the tie at home." If the infield is in you most likely are not going to hit into a double play because the infield is not a double play depth. Nevertheless, no matter if the infield is in or at double play depth, putting the ball in play gives you more of a chance to get that run in.

With that situation, I would be looking for a ball up with less than two so I could get it airborne, so I agree with you there. However, with two strikes, IMO your thinking must change. Again, it does no good in this situation if you don't put the ball IN PLAY. I don't care who's coming up next, all I know is that there are a lot more chances for hits when you put the ball in play then when you don't.

As for your second scenario, Lee, Ramirez and DeRosa get paid millions, so they know what they should do in that situation and they aren't going to be looking to Lou to tell them what to do. I'm not sure that it is really relevant to this convo.

Any other questions, scenarios?

I would prefer them just "drive" the ball on any count. Be a Chauffer of the baseball. Hit it hard whether it be a groundball a line drive or a fly ball. Just center it.

quote:

Originally posted by beemax:

As for your second scenario, Lee, Ramirez and DeRosa get paid millions, so they know what they should do in that situation and they aren't going to be looking to Lou to tell them what to do. I'm not sure that it is really relevant to this convo.

Any other questions, scenarios?

Wow! Once you start to make millions you no longer take signs??? Since Jeter and A-Rod make millions and Cano doesn't yet, would A-Rod or Jeter tell Cano to play in or stay back in the scenario you were talking about with the runners on 1st and 3rd? I guess George doesn't need to replace Torre, huh? Just let the millionaire ball players run the team.

Mic, if you want to start a thread on how many big league hitters take signs, be my guest. We are talking about two strike hitting in this thread. I was simply trying to respond to what you said about the Lee, Ramirez, and DeRosa scenario.

I was not talking about how Lee, Ramirez, and DeRosa would be positioned on the field. Managers are always moving players around defensively, so yes, I could see Lou, or Torre, or whoever moving the infield back or in. As managers that is their job.

What I can't see is Derek Lee, Aramis Ramirez, A-Rod or Derek Jeter looking to their manager with a tie game in the ninth and nobody on to see if they should swing for the fences or not. What I meant by "they get paid millions" is that they get paid for a reason, and in that situation they aren't looking to someone else to tell them what to do. Lou isn't going to tell them to swing for the fences anyway. You show me a manager who has ever said that to a player and I will show you a manager who has never been in pro ball. They are getting paid millions because they know what they should be doing up there in that situation. If a runner was to get on it could change, but name me the last time A-Rod, Lee, or Ramirez had to sac bunt or hit and run.

I do agree with you that it is up to the manager in some circumstances whether you hit and run, bunt, take, steal, or other things. Just not in YOUR SCENARIO with the Cubs with nobody on, nobody out. It simply doesn't apply to this thread. If you want to talk more strategy, again start another thread or pm me, but I started this post to talk TWO STRIKE HITTING.

Now if you want to talk more two strike situations, please do. That's what I want to talk about here.

beemax,
From a mechanical standpoint Rudy Jaramillo likes to have his hitters 'pre-stride' (if you will).

Swingbuilder could comment on this better than I.

Here's a clip of Michael Young that, I'm told, is his two strike approach.

bee,

I still say it depends on the hitter and what their goal was when they went to the plate. I agree those three guys don't do those things you mentioned, although I have seen all hit and run on occasion. I would also say that at least two of those guys will NEVER choke up and just try to make contact with two strikes.

I believe a hitter has to take what he does best and do that. In my opinion, you never give yourself up unless it is a sacrifice or a hit and run. You are asking for our opinions right? You don't believe everyone should do as you do, do you?

Mic,

No, I don't believe everyone should do as I do. I just know what I have tried. I know what has worked and what hasn't worked, and it always depends on the individual. For me, I choke up and spread out a little with two strikes. This has worked for me. If someone were to ask me what to do with two strikes, I would suggest this first.

LC,

Good clip from a very good hitter. The whole purpose of striding early (pre-stride) is to get the foot down early to see the ball as long as possible. As an overall hitting approach, I believe getting the foot down "early" saps you of power by making the swing more two part (start "stride," stop, start swing). However, I do believe this helps see the ball longer and will give you a better chance to put the ball in play.

Why not do this all the time? You may ask. Again, for my approach as a corner infielder, I need to hit with power, and IMO this isn't the way to create power. Crate contact, possibly, create power, no.

I think this approach is worth a try for any hitter looking for a two strike approach.

Remember also that IMO you should look for a fastball away with two strikes.

From beemax,

quote:

As an overall hitting approach, I believe getting the foot down "early" saps you of power by making the swing more two part (start "stride," stop, start swing).

Agree. 100%.

The Young clip is nothing more than no-stride.

quote:

The Young clip is nothing more than no-stride.

Yes sir.
And it appears to be different than his regular approach.


Goes to no / pre / early stride-- with 2 strikes.

Is two strike hitting different if working with MLB players as against college and HS players?

LClifton,

Very good example and even Canseco would do the same thing. I am a big believer in the 2 strike approach, both mechanically and mentally. I would go so far to say that every hitter uses a two strike approach at least sometimes. If not physically, then mentally, whether they realize it or not. It's kind of hard to not be aware that you have two strikes on you.

In fact, some of the infamous "count defense" is based on what is most likely to happen with two strike counts. Then again, maybe some don't believe in "count defense".

He hath spoken!

TR,

Good question. I think two strike hitting can be different depending on the level you are at because the pitchers are better at each level. However, I think the approach should always stay the same as far as looking fastball away. I believe it allows you to adjust to more pitches with two strikes.

PG,

Good point on "count defense." Agree 100%

LC,

Way to back up your example of Young. I love it!

One very simple point that gets lost in all the 2-strike approach talk.

With no strikes – The hitter sees a real good hard curve ball low and away on the paint. Most good hitters will take this pitch even if it’s called a strike. Why? Because they are likely to see a better pitch to hit in that AB. There is no reason to spoil the pitch or foul it off in order to stay alive. And it could be called a ball.

With two strikes – Same pitch… Same location. What do you do? Is there a different approach regarding what you want to do with that same pitch?

Beemax, I think you and I are on the same exact page, only you're a lot better hitter than I am!

BTW, You and your brother (among others) continue to bring great stuff to the discussions here. I for one will be pulling hard for you to get to the top, even though you never attended a PG event.

What happened to Chameleon?

quote:

What happened to Chameleon?

I'm not privy (so, I guess someone will tell me mind my own), but from reading on another website....

There are members of a certain hitting guru's webpage, who are not allowed to discuss that info without said hitting guru's permission.

From what I can gather, some ex-members claim to have been kicked out for not following all the rules, including publicly questioning some of the guru's philosophies.

Additionally, from what I can gather, is that some of the still-members of the guru clan may object to those ex-members persistence in discussing philosophies which are contrary to the guru. And, if given the opportunity, will persuade those with the power to excommunicate to exercise that power.

I read all the last posts by Chameleon and failed to see anything worthy of the big boot. So, either it was deleted.....or, his kickoff was unjustified.

Either way, it's a shame. He brought a great deal of info and passion to this site in a very short time frame. He was willing to share his hitting beliefs, and his vast array of videos. Furthermore, if you join his website, he doesn't forbid you from sharing info obtained there. Hopefully, he'll reinvent and return.

PG:

quote:

With no strikes – The hitter sees a real good hard curve ball low and away on the paint. Most good hitters will take this pitch even if it’s called a strike. Why? Because they are likely to see a better pitch to hit in that AB. There is no reason to spoil the pitch or foul it off in order to stay alive. And it could be called a ball.

With two strikes – Same pitch… Same location. What do you do? Is there a different approach regarding what you want to do with that same pitch?

Well put, very well put.
The first paragraph is instrumental in my opinion of raising a players BA. With 2 strikes you become less picky.
But that first paragraph describes things well,
"Because they are likely to get a better pitch."

Yessssss.
Pg:

quote:

BTW, You and your brother (among others) continue to bring great stuff to the discussions here. I for one will be pulling hard for you to get to the top, even though you never attended a PG event.

Yes sir--- on both points.

PG,

Another great question. If he is a good hitter he will take that good breaking ball strike one-agree 100% there. That is my philosophy. I never go up to the plate looking for a nasty curveball to hit 0-0. Chances are I am going to miss it or hit it without much authority, so why look for it then? There is a reason you have three strikes when you hit.

Now, if I were to get to 2 strikes, it becomes more of a see it, hit it scenario. Be careful reading this though, because that is not what I advocate. I will always say look fastball away with two strikes (unless you know what pitch is coming). Why the fastball away? Because it makes you wait.

To hit a fastball away well, what do you have to do? Wait and let the ball travel. To do the same with a breaking ball, you have to wait.

IMO this gives the hitter the largest number of pitches and speeds to fight off or put in play. If you are looking fastball away and he busts you in, all you can do is try to fight it off, foul it off, do whatever you can.

If you are looking fastball away and he happens to make a mistake with a breaking ball up in the zone, you are already sitting back and can react better to that ball.

As for the nasty breaking ball away with two strikes, you just have to battle. My thinking is if I have seen it already in the at bat and taken it, I should be able to pick it up a little better and fight it off at worst. If not, sometimes the pitcher beats you, and you have to tip your cap to him.

IMO two strike hitting is a huge part of the mental game. Look at Kevin Youkilis with the Red Sox and the at-bats he has had against Rafael Betancourt of the Indians in the ALCS. Betancourt has been arguably the best reliever in the American League this year, and he has shown it in the playoffs. Now I have seen two at-bats where him and Youkilis went at it. Youkilis is not Manny or Big Papi, but he needs to get on base to be driven in by those guys. He battles with two just about as good as anyone in baseball. He fights off tough pitches, makes good swings at mistakes, and always COMPETES. Both of the at-bats he had against Betancourt he fouled off 5 or 6 pitches and had a great at-bat. He doesn't always get hits with two strikes, but he makes the pitcher work and never wastes at-bats. All successful two strike hitters really bare down and COMPETE when they get two. They rarely, if ever waste at-bats, and the least amount of at-bats you waste, the better hitter you will be.

Keep the questions and comments going!

Thats a great post. Young hitters should read this stuff. Its about having a game plan each and everytime you go to the plate. The game plan can change from situation in the game to how you were pitch previously to the count you have on you. I work with alot of young hitters. Teaching them how to have a game plan , the importance of it , how it changes and why is one of the most important things you can teach a hitter. When you have two strikes its about being a fighter. Its about saying to yourself Im not going to let them put K in front of my name today. And to better prevent that you need a game plan. Great Post , Now this is the kind of stuff that can be used by people.

Much of this has to do with the type of program you are playing. Many programs are predictable per their coach's philosophy of pitching. For example, does that program pitch "backwards?" By "backwards," I mean do they train and have the ability to throw breaking pitches or the curve in fastball counts? Some programs start #3 and #4 off with a curve for a strike knowing that that school's hitting philosophy is exactly what beemax posted. Therefore, they are allowing you to get ahead with that pitch. You are safe with a "get me over curve" since you know, as a pitcher, they won't swing. The trick then is to recognize good programs and how they pitch and then to plan accordingly. We take note of schools that "pitch backwards" or ones that throw #3 and #4 a first pitch curve and so, we then tell the hitter that they can, but don't have to, hit "backwards." This is especially beneficial if there is a runner on 1st. It is also beneficial from a coaching standpoint because if you know tendicies such as this, you can hit and run with a greater chance of being successful. JMHO!

I see what you are saying CoachB25, but what does it have to do with two strike hitting?

He can't say, it's proprietary information.

quote:

Originally posted by beemax:
I see what you are saying CoachB25, but what does it have to do with two strike hitting?

It doesn't and I was cut off and had to go coach one sport before I went to coach the other.

Sorry!

I would say that like the situation I proposed in the earlier posts, teams are also predictable based upon their success on what they are going to do with 2 strikes. For instance, in most programs, you're going to hear a coach shout out the count as a "warning" to the pitcher if the count is 0-2. If I'm the batter, I know that the next pitch is a ball. I'm looking outside low because I also know that if that pitch is up and in, it is really going to be up and in. Kids at the high school level tend to miss low and away over the plate a lot. That pitcher isn't going to take a chance of hitting you with a 0-2 count. You will play programs/coaches that have taught their pitcher to throw an "out pitch" in the dirt. For the most part, that pitch will be a slider or a curve. If you're playing a good program, you can expect that to happen on 0-2 and 1-2. The trick then is to figure out what is going to happen on even counts. I agree with the concept of hitting fastballs but each program has a "trend" that they exhibit. If you chart pitches and we do for both teams, soon you will realize a pattern of backward or forward and so, you can better prepare yourself for that even count. Most programs on full counts are coming with the fastball. JMHO!

quote:

Originally posted by noreast:
He can't say, it's proprietary information.

And in reality I probably can't say propr or propreeeit anyway since I'm ignernt as my Dad says.

CoachB25,

Good post. I agree with you 100% that when you are behind (0-2 1-2) you will most likely see the pitcher's "out" pitch and it will usually be out of the zone, whether it is a high fastball or a breaking ball down and away.

When you said that 0-2, you would be looking outside and low, I disagree. By outside and low I believe you are saying out of the zone, and as a successful two strike hitter, you should always be looking IN YOUR ZONE and not out of the zone. IMO if a hitter is looking out of the strike zone he is more prone to chase than one who stays disciplined in his zone. That is why I say look for a fastball away. By away I mean a good pitch-on the black or close to it and around the knees. Not off the plate and below the knees.

I do agree that the majority of pitchers are afraid to pitch in with 2 strikes. They are afraid of leaking a pitch out over the plate that will get hit hard, so they stay away mostly. IMO this is all the more reason to look fastball away with 2 strikes. Yes, I have been frozen on a fastball in before with 2 strikes, but I can count the number of times in my career that has happened on one hand (maybe two ). Because I am looking fastball away with two strikes, I am confident that I can at least fight off that fastball in if it is thrown to me.

As for charting, we chart every pitch in pro ball. Because we face the same teams multiple times, we can go back to not only what they did with 2 strikes, but what they started us off with, what their tendencies are, etc. I encourage any high school team to do this if they can. Even if you are only facing the pitcher once, you can pick up tenencies after the first time he goes through the order. It also keeps the players head's in the game more, keeps them thinking about what is going on out on the field. I think the more you can encourage players at all levels to pay attention to the pitcher and the game when they are in the dugout, the better off they will be as players and teammates during the game.

Ok, kinda got off topic there, but back to your even count thinking. 2-2 is not like 3-2, where IMO a fastball is going to be thrown most of the time. However, I think it is important to remember that the pitcher DOES NOT want to reach 3-2, so IMO the percentages lie with the fastball. If they throw something else on 2-2 or 3-2 hopefully you are charting it so you can remember that next time the situation arises!

quote:

Originally posted by beemax:
CoachB25,

Good post. I agree with you 100% that when you are behind (0-2 1-2) you will most likely see the pitcher's "out" pitch and it will usually be out of the zone, whether it is a high fastball or a breaking ball down and away.

Thanks. We are in agreement.

quote:

When you said that 0-2, you would be looking outside and low, I disagree. By outside and low I believe you are saying out of the zone, and as a successful two strike hitter, you should always be looking IN YOUR ZONE and not out of the zone. IMO if a hitter is looking out of the strike zone he is more prone to chase than one who stays disciplined in his zone. That is why I say look for a fastball away. By away I mean a good pitch-on the black or close to it and around the knees. Not off the plate and below the knees.

No, I'm not an advocate of leaving or expanding the strike zone to help the pitcher. This is where this medium for communication is difficult for me. Outside and low would still have to be a strike. However, I believe that the black of that plate is a position that potentially can cause real heartache since many men in blue will ring you up on that. Therefore, you have to be able to protect 3/4ths of the plate out to and including the black. JMHO! My opinion and $6 will get you an extra value meal at Micky D's.

quote:

I do agree that the majority of pitchers are afraid to pitch in with 2 strikes. They are afraid of leaking a pitch out over the plate that will get hit hard, so they stay away mostly. IMO this is all the more reason to look fastball away with 2 strikes. Yes, I have been frozen on a fastball in before with 2 strikes, but I can count the number of times in my career that has happened on one hand (maybe two ). Because I am looking fastball away with two strikes, I am confident that I can at least fight off that fastball in if it is thrown to me.

Really, this issue is also about level of play. Very good programs/pitchers can bust the letters and you're in trouble. However, and I agree, not often done. If up and in at the hs level, more times than not it is really up.

quote:

As for charting, we chart every pitch in pro ball. Because we face the same teams multiple times, we can go back to not only what they did with 2 strikes, but what they started us off with, what their tendencies are, etc. I encourage any high school team to do this if they can. Even if you are only facing the pitcher once, you can pick up tenencies after the first time he goes through the order. It also keeps the players head's in the game more, keeps them thinking about what is going on out on the field. I think the more you can encourage players at all levels to pay attention to the pitcher and the game when they are in the dugout, the better off they will be as players and teammates during the game.

I can remember a couple of years ago being admonished on this site by a member for saying this about charting. Why? Because high school pitchers aren't good enough to duplicate a "strategy" often enough to make it worth while. I disagreed then and still do. Also, remember that a pitcher is pitching according to a plan that the coaching staff has set forth. Therefore, understand the coach/program of another school and you'll be forwarned by your charts.

quote:

Ok, kinda got off topic there, but back to your even count thinking. 2-2 is not like 3-2, where IMO a fastball is going to be thrown most of the time. However, I think it is important to remember that the pitcher DOES NOT want to reach 3-2, so IMO the percentages lie with the fastball. If they throw something else on 2-2 or 3-2 hopefully you are charting it so you can remember that next time the situation arises!

Fair enough. However, ask yourself this, if you have a quality pitcher who has been trained in a quality program, they probably "box" and "tilt" their fastballs in bullpen work. In other words, the majority of their pens are about spotting that fastball. Therefore, and only speaking for me and my staff, we expect for a "boxed" fastball to be thrown for a strike everytime it is called. This enables us throw whatever we want on that even count. As a hitter, you don't know what is coming since we're not afraid to go 3-2. JMHO!

One final thought, hitters would do well to listen to the pitcher's as they do their workouts. It is much more than just standing up there to get a view of the various pitches. You'll here the whys of what the pitcher wants to achieve. Again, to be forewarned is to be forearmed.

Great stuff CoachB25, this is what I wanted to get out of this thread.

To your point about facing a pitcher who can spot his fastball:

"Fair enough. However, ask yourself this, if you have a quality pitcher who has been trained in a quality program, they probably "box" and "tilt" their fastballs in bullpen work. In other words, the majority of their pens are about spotting that fastball. Therefore, and only speaking for me and my staff, we expect for a "boxed" fastball to be thrown for a strike everytime it is called. This enables us throw whatever we want on that even count. As a hitter, you don't know what is coming since we're not afraid to go 3-2. JMHO!"

Even though IMO pitchers will throw fastballs the majority of the time in 2-2 and 3-2 counts, I still am not going to deviate from my two strike approach: To look fastball away so I can adjust better to offspeed.

I understand what you are saying, and if you have a pitcher that can throw any pitch for a strike at any count, you are probably dealing with a very good prospect.

In pro ball, much moreso than high school or college ball, organizations push their pitchers to use their fastball. When I played in college pitchers used the breaking ball more often in all counts when compared to pro ball. IMO that is the problem with pitching in college-not as many pitchers develop their fastball the way they should. Again kind of off topic...sorry!

If a pitcher is not afraid to go 3-2 that is fine by me, because I have confidence that if he throws me offspeed for a ball I will take it to get to 3-2. If it is thrown for a strike maybe it will freeze me, but by being in that battle-mode with two, my goal at the least is to fight it off. All of this always goes back to pitch recognition. The sooner you can develop a hitter's ability to read spin, the more balls they will take and strikes they will attack, IMO.

To your final thought"

"One final thought, hitters would do well to listen to the pitcher's as they do their workouts. It is much more than just standing up there to get a view of the various pitches. You'll here the whys of what the pitcher wants to achieve. Again, to be forewarned is to be forearmed."

I couldn't agree more. As a hitter, I think you should always be picking the brains of your teammates. Pitchers to see what they would throw and how they would go about doing it. Hitters to see what their approach is in certain situations. Learn from your teammates. They will learn from you too, making the team better and no doubt making yourself a smarter player.

One other facet of 2 strike hitting with a full count that we haven't considered is the portion of the lineup where the opposing coach has told his pitcher to "not give in to the hitter." In that scenerio, you are going to most probably get a breaking pitch or a fastball off of the plate. Due to this, you have to know other info such as runners on base and score, how a particular hitter has done on the year or against this particular pitcher... Of course, I agree with you on this scenerio that you are still looking fastball. If they are in that mental mode, then they are looking to "pitch around you" any way and so, you should be able to fight off the pitcher's pitch.

In my opinion, one of the biggest keys to winning HIGH SCHOOL baseball games is putting the ball in play...not letting good pitching retire 10-12 of your given 21 outs by strikeout. This may seem to be an obvious point, but we call strike outs "free outs", and most definitely make 2 strike adjustments. To me, it is the most effective approach for the average high school hitter, and the one that helps us win against talented pitchers and more talented teams.
"Give 'em a chance to screw up, striking out is worse than death!"

Ryno,

Agree 100%. There are a lot more holes in the field to get hits than there are in the catcher's glove

a question on these Youkilis - Betancourt type at bats, where the batter is fouling off pitch after pitch.

Is the professional batter trying to a) put each and every ball into play, and he's just fouling them off, or b) is the batter playing a bit of a waiting game with the pitcher, essentially letting the ball come deeper, knowing full well that all he's going to do is foul it off hard and definitely out of play. In either a) or b), if the pitcher makes a mistake, then the hitter blasts it (fair).


At the high school level, I see some pretty good overall hitters sometimes making outs on weakly hit 2 strike foul balls, rather than driving balls same pitch foul and out of play.

I think in the Youkilis-Betancourt situation, Youkilis is fighting off pitches that are very tough to square up. I know that I have never puprosefully fouled off a pitch that I thought I could hit. He could very well be doing that, but IMO I doubt it. I think it is just a case of competeing at the highest level rather than fouling off pitches on purpose.

The pitcher sometimes will throw an unhittable pitch, and when he does, you just ahve to tip your cap to him. However, if you are focused and competing as best you can, maybe you can foul off some of those very tough pitches that if you take, will be strike three. I believe that is what Youkilis was doing in these at bats.

beemax, this is a wonderful thread.
Hitting with two strikes becomes so much more important as a hitter progresses to college and perhaps beyond.
I agree with you that hitting with 2 strikes does involve an adjustment, whether it be choking up on the bat, getting wider and shorter to the ball or a combination of both.
One aspect that is an advantage in college and especially minor league ball is the scouting report.
Hitters and pitchers who study them and know their opposition can have a huge advantage. For a good hitter with two strikes, if both resulted from the pitchers best pitches, he will know that and still be in command of the at bat. When the count is 0-2 and you haven't seen the best, the pitcher is very much in control. Being short, choking up and spreading out can somewhat neutralize the advantage.
From my observations and discussions, one item not yet mentioned but implied is hitting with confidence when you have 2 strikes. There are some who feel the AB does not begin until they get the pitcher to that point. There are organizations which stress that point, also.
Personally, I do believe there are hitters with sufficient bat control and control of the strike zone to be able to slap pitches foul to extend the AB. All the while, they are either looking for a mistake or a pitch they can drive. The problem is that the higher you get, the less number of mistakes you will see with 2 strikes.
Since I was never very good when the count was 3-0, I have great admiration for guys who hit .300 with the count 0-2 and have no seeming fear in those situations.

infielddad,

I think you bring up a good point when talking about confidence with two strikes. I think the only way that can happen is if you ARE NOT AFRAID to get to two strikes. That happens when you have confidence in your plan at the plate.

When you have confidence in your plan at the plate, you can take pitches that you are not looking for with less than two because you aren't afraid to get to two strikes.

If you are lacking confidence then you will "chase in the zone" as I call it. This is when you are looking for a pitch in a certain zone with less than two and you swing at something out of that zone because you do not have the confidence that you will get another pitch to hit in that at bat.

IMO, to have confidence with two, you have to have confidence throughout the at-bat. This means not getting rattled if you take a strike that maybe you weren't looking for. It takes discipline throughout an at-bat and if you get to two, battle and compete!

There has been some greast two strike hitting here in the post season. The three best I have seen listed alphabetically are:

1) Abreiu (sp)
2) Ramirez
3) Youkalis (sp)

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
I can remember a couple of years ago being admonished on this site by a member for saying this about charting. Why? Because high school pitchers aren't good enough to duplicate a "strategy" often enough to make it worth while. I disagreed then and still do. Also, remember that a pitcher is pitching according to a plan that the coaching staff has set forth. Therefore, understand the coach/program of another school and you'll be forwarned by your charts.

I'm all for charting. A coach is probably calling pitches. Over time his tendencies can be learned. While only 14U last summer, we learned a certain coach never called the breaking ball back to back. How would you like the be at the plate 2-2 knowing a fastball is coming after the curve in the dirt? Tee it up.

(Off the topic of hitting) Charting is also good for pitchers to watch and learn the art of pitching. By charting pitchers can relate to the mistakes they've made and have the time to see other pitchers make them. Plus there's written evidence of what happens to pitches in each location of the pitcher in the game.

Overall charting can be used to prove to hitters what pitches and locations they are succeeding as hitters and where they are failing. They learn to look for pitches in certain areas and work to improve where they fail. How many times have you heard hitters say "not me" when there isn't evidence?

Going back to the orginal post, I'm not a big fan of choke and poke. I like to see the hitter maintain his swing unless circumstances dictate otherwise. As mentioned, sometimes poking becomes an instinctive defense mechanism to fight off the tough pitch. In the big picture I want the hitter to drive the ball. In the long run I believe the results will be better despite a few K's.