u of texas

Miles Clauss has transferred to North Carolina State along with the pithcing coach from Texas, Tom Holiday. He didn't loose any eligibility either.

Ah, I remember Holiday left now.
Thanks for the info update!

Saw another one...David Cales went to UIC so he did nt have to pitch anymore?....Did anyone else see his fantastic pitching numbers last year?

Is that true?

Cales can throw. I'm surprised he left.

Goose.

I wish Miles the best. It's always nice to find yourself in the # 1 conference in D1.

My understanding is that Cales left because he wanted to play the infield and pitch. He will do both at UIC

A pretty big step down but I wish him luck!

I suppose he'll replace Hallberg. Those are big shoes to fill.

quote:

A pretty big step down but I wish him luck!

That sounds really insulting to UIC or any other IL college program . I understand some feel there is a D1 pedistal for certain programs but I thought the idea was to find the right college "fit", not the prettiest dress to wear.

rz1,

My intention was not to insult.

Both teams are on the rise.

My post reflected the RPI and Conference differential which by any measure is signifigant.

(RPI..Mizzou #47 UIC #136)
(Conference RPI..Big 12 #3 Horizon #22)

I think it is of the utmost importance to find the best fit...AND....in the prettiest dress available!

Soxnole,

The last thing I want to do is get in a pessing match with you but I have this knee jerk reaction when the respect toward mid-majors is brought up. I see how you could candy-coat the statement by using RPI and Conference ratings, numbers dont lie, but numbers can be very mis-leading when looking at the big picture. When all is said and done I still see the comment as lacking respect for those type programs when comparing them to the "big boys". The big difference is in pitching depth IMHO.

Not everyone has the opportunity to go to "power" school, but at the same time the yearly MLB draft shows that is not a necessity. I give Cales and players like him alot more credit for having the balls to "take off that dress" and play the game on their terms, than some power conference players who rot on the bench for years but looks good in the team photo. Again JMHO, and you are also entitled to yours.

Soxnole, I just re-read this and I want to emphasis there is absolutly NO association with your son and my comments. There is complete respect in that regard.

rz,

Cales could play anywhere.

Hallberg as well.

"Playing on your own terms" is one way of putting it. I think that in Hallberg's case there was a burning desire to succeed on a bigger stage.

Cales will be,imo a fine 2 way player.

Win win I think.

In the end, the guys who attend the "power schools" will at least have tested themselves against the very best.

No offense taken regarding my son, who is attending a power school for the simple reason that he bleeds garnet and gold.

soxnole, you have a pm

One of the great things about parenting is seeing our own kids surpass what we ourselves are.

That said, kudos to Soxnole because his son bleeds garnet and gold, which is a huge improvement on silver and black.

Well done, Soxnole!

quote:

One of the great things about parenting is seeing our own kids surpass what we ourselves are.

I hear ya FB....my son is in the second grade!!! Whoo-Hoo!!!!

FbDad

I agree that Garnet and Gold is a superior color scheme.

The "superior" part doesn't end there.

There are many more class acts in Tallahassee than exist in any of the Chicago sports franchises, with Paxson and Skiles as the exception.

NATIONAL CHAMP FLORIDA GATORS!

Come on rz1

The only way it would come off as an insult is if someone from a mid major actually thought that the baseball played their was consistently as good as the ball played at Texas. Sure in a season there will be a few upsets, but for Midwesterners to think that the college baseball here stacks up to the SEC and Big 12 is ridiculous.

Now, you can quote stats and records, but the simple fact is that any top high school player, if he goes to college, is not teetering between Oklahoma and UIC.

You need to lose that midwestern chip on your shoulder dude.

quote:

Originally posted by ballyall:

Now, you can quote stats and records, but the simple fact is that any top high school player, if he goes to college, is not teetering between Oklahoma and UIC.

Bally,
I beg to differ. There is a lot more that goes into the choices of ballplayers than simply the level of the program. Take a look at the double digit number of signees that some of those programs have. How about the chance to compete for a spot right away? On top of that, different schools divy up the scholarship money quite differently. To say that no baseball player would equally consider Oklahoma and UIC is to ignore the evidence in effect of David Cales.

The motivations that influence peoples choices are much deeper than simply "the more prestigous program". To assume otherwise brands us all as shallow and attention seeking.

quote:

Originally posted by ballyall:
Come on rz1

The only way it would come off as an insult is if someone from a mid major actually thought that the baseball played their was consistently as good as the ball played at Texas. Sure in a season there will be a few upsets, but for Midwesterners to think that the college baseball here stacks up to the SEC and Big 12 is ridiculous.

Now, you can quote stats and records, but the simple fact is that any top high school player, if he goes to college, is not teetering between Oklahoma and UIC.

You need to lose that midwestern chip on your shoulder dude.

Dude ,

Is that what I said dude? Later Dude

If you can't play at a big boy, play at a school who schedules them, take a look at the UIC schedule. Plenty of big boys around. "it's a simple game, you catch it, you throw it you hit it", no different in florida, texas, or arizona. Depth on the bump is the Key to those squads. The advent of the indoor facility and quality instruction has closed the gap in athleticism. LSU offers a player from here books and housing, Illinois gives him everything.

Your team is only as good as tomorrow's starting pitcher. The Midwest colleges have closed the gap some, but still have a ways to go to consistently compete with the big D1 colleges.

RZ1

It is what you said. You were whining that the midmajors dont get the respect of the "big" programs. While you chose the words lack of respect, I made a slight leap to consider that an insult. Any grammarian, debate particpant or human being used to conversation will grant me that concession.

Now, you seem to be fishing for compliments to the midmajors--they are tremndous schools, and some have great programs. However, as many of the posts on this board have echoes, they do not match the SEC and Big 12 schools in talent, level of competition, reputation, etc.

UIC--a good program; Dee is a great coach; and they would finish dead last and maybe winless in those other two conferences.

quote:

and maybe winless in those other two conferences.

ballyall,

With the above statement and even with the "maybe" thrown in, sorry, but there goes your credibility with me (not that you care ).

quote:

Now, you can quote stats and records, but the simple fact is that any top high school player, if he goes to college, is not teetering between Oklahoma and UIC.

Ball,

I'd say that as about as untrue as it gets. I can tell you for a fact that RZ's son could have played anywhere in the country.

What he couldn't have done is gone in and be the ace of a staff as a Freshman. He got that chance at UIC.

I would imagine there are only 1% of the kids that end up at the "big boys" who could be the ace as a frosh be it ability or circumstance. Most "big" programs win with Jr's and Sr's.

I think you are very short sighted in thinking that "lesser players" play at smaller schools.

The true fact is the depth might not be as great overall but the top 5% at Mid-majors are as good or better than the top 5% anywhere in the nation.

quote:

Originally posted by ballyall:

UIC--a good program; Dee is a great coach; and they would finish dead last and maybe winless in those other two conferences.

I am going to leave that with no comment because it's just too telling in itself

Blaze I echo your sentiments and second the fact with a couple of mid major names Louisiana-Lafayette, Southwest Missouri State (Now Missouri State), But here is the big boy of all the Mid Majors and you may have heard of them Rice.

I really think you should re-read what I wrote. First of all I do have a lot of respect for mid-west specifically WI & IL college baseball at all levels because of the obstacals programs have to overcome, beginning with weather. If that's the chip on my shoulder you're talking about, yes it is there, and shame on me for being a Northern baseball fan. You do not take a step forward and run with the big dogs without grassroot support. If you want to sit back, cuddle up, and stroke the big boys go ahead, I will use this site to talk up the kids who want to make Northern baseball better.

Next, In the 2 posts I made where was I fishing for any mid-major compliments? .

Next, the whole part of this converstation evolved around a comment Soxnole made, and he and I have talked about that on the side. When he said "A pretty big step down...", I took that as like me saying to you "Ballyall, you had a cute girlfriend, the new one is a pretty big step down, a real rag". Is that an insult? Is that not showing respect? This WI hick took it that way. I took it as an insult on Cales, UIC, and Northern Baseball. Soxnole and I have cleared that up.

It's obvious that those Conferences are the cream, but there are ~200 teams in D1 baseball that are in the same boat as UIC. I'm an advocate that baseball is played because you have a passion for the game and my OPINION stated that some schools perched on the top look down on the others because those lower schools do not have the "talent, level of competition, or reputation". That was my opinion. You read way too much into things, and trust me when I say you don't want to get into my warped mind .

As far as your comment "and they would finish dead last and maybe winless in those other two conferences". Good thing Mississippi isn't in the SEC conference because UIC beat them last year....oops they are SEC.

rz...Trust me, I would guess that Mississippi didn't pitch their ace against UIC. Midweek game?

I like UIC and Mike Dee and the program and your son's future. Hope his arm is ok.

Mike's trying to do some good things for the program, but until the rest of the conference improves their schedules, no one will get into the NCAA tournament except if they win their own tournament and get the lone bid that the conference gets.

Been, It was a weekend series. I don't know who the MS "aces" were but the guy who started had the 3rd most starts last year. the UM site had his article.

March 3, 2006

OXFORD, Miss. - The Rebel bats were unable to get going on Friday as No. 18 Ole Miss (6-3) fell to Illinois-Chicago (3-5) by a score of 4-1.

Tommy Baumgardner (2-1) suffered the loss for the Rebels as he gave up four runs on seven hits, walking four and striking out four in 5.1 innings of work.......

What a great thread. I'm trying to decide who I agree with and I cannot. It means there is either a lot of good stuff on all sides or a lot of other stuff that shall remain nameless.

thanks, rz....

Any reason why you didn't tell us that the Rebels shut out the Flames 10-0 on Saturday; and, 5-0 on Sunday?

Didn't ask about Sat, Sun , they must have been pessed a lowly Mid took em down on Friday. that's the respect issue I've been talkin about

quote:

Mike's trying to do some good things for the program, but until the rest of the conference improves their schedules, no one will get into the NCAA tournament except if they win their own tournament and get the lone bid that the conference gets.

That conference issue is a longterm roadblock that has to be overcome in the same way Oril Roberts has done it in the Mid-Continent conference, by themselves. Besides great academics and good coaching, UIC has made huge jumps in 06/07 with a brand new 5000sq ft locker room/offices/academic center for the baseball team exclusivly, indoor artificial turf practice facility, and will be upgrading the stadium with field turf, and other improvements. I doubt if many baseball programs in the country will have made more capital improvements over a 2 year span. You cannot establish a reputation without having a comittment from your local elite talent. Illinois/Wisconsin has proven there is talent, now that talent has to make a comittment.

The great thing about baseball is that no matter how good a team is, it is utterly impossible to win every game.

Of all sports, it is the one where the underdog has a chance to win most of the time.

Playball2 understands why there is not a level playing field between northern schools and mid-majors. Schools such as Texas have kids willing
to commit for next to nothing to have the chance to
play at Texas. Take Arkansas for example.The past 2 years they have 20 early signing. What are they offered to attend. It come in packages of 15% or 20%
the most that is offered for postion players is 45%. You even see kids sign there for out of state tuition waivered which doesn't affect schlorship allotment. These large schools show no love when it
comes to cutting kids because the line forms at the door.

The southern schools also have another item going for them. The cost of education! That makes it easier to offer a 10-20% scholarship.

Here is one example
When comparing the south with the northern schools one also must consider the cost of education is lower in the south. Here is one example:

U of Arkansas Little Rock

Tuition = 2516 per semester
Housing= 1475 per semester

With out the meal plan you are looking at 7982 for the year.

Let’s call the 10-20 % scholarship even with the meal plan and the cost of a college education is very reasonable.

The cost of eduction can be considered at least two ways. The cost you pay to go somewhere and the cost you pay by not going somewhere.

Southern Schools are less expensive, and also not rated as high academically as high as most Northern Schools as well.

THIS IS NOT ABSOLUTE AND NOT MEANT TO INSULT ANYONE!!

Just a note to let rz1 know that the improvements made at UIC, which are tremendous, are small potatoes compared to the many millions spent and still spending all over the top 50 landscape.

rz1 sounds like me 5 years go. I too thought things could even up at some point.

Except for the schools PG pointed out and a few others that are trying hard (Minnesota St. Johns and OSU)the northern schools have little hope with weather, facilities and tradition as the biggest obstacles.

A very high percentage of northern players are simply going to continue to make an exodus from the 40 and 50 degree, non-baseball weather.

Well put Soxnole.

Hook'em!!!!!!

If we were to classify the college baseball programs and compare them to professional baseball, it might work something like this….

Very top conferences (We all know which ones they are) and some other select programs = The Major Leagues

Many other DIs and select DII, or very top Juco = AAA

Lower level DIs and some DII, high level NAIA, very highest level DIII or Juco = AA

Highest level DIII, some DII, some Jucos, some NAIA = High A

The best of the rest = Low A

All the rest = Rookie Ball

Granted this is stretching the imagination a bit, but the truth is, there will always be players in Rookie Ball who will pass up the players in the Major Leagues. So there are "highest level players" at all the levels.

We also know there are a large number of players from Northern Colleges who end up in the Big Leagues! It’s possible the very best player in any given year (high school or college) could come from any part of the country. In the end it’s possible the very best player could come from nearly any part of the country.

Depth is what separates these programs and of course weather and money is what creates that depth. It is not coaching because there are great coaches all over the nation.

All the above is a big (IMHO) and only an example, and probably requires some adjustments in comparisons.