Umpires That Should Retire or Be Fired (LD Bell / East)

To have ALL four umpires miss the call on a solo shot is frustrating to no end. Granted, one ump was probably watching the batter/runner to confirm touching of the bases, but the other 3 have no excuse.

The players ramp up their game and play with extra purpose and intensity during playoffs. Every pitch has meaning. I would hope the umpires to have the same mentality.

Umpires are human and make mistakes, but when its a mistake at this magnitude...its a tough one to accept.

quote:

Originally posted by Stiglitz:
Nobody should ever blame a bad call by an umpire as the sole reason your team lost and that is the case in the LD Bell / Plano East game yesterday.

East had chances, especially early in the game, to light up the scoreboard but didn't make it happen. LD Bell won the game and the series because they played excellent defense and got hits when they needed. I don't speak for everybody but I wish them luck the rest of the year.

To the 6th inning yesterday and the blown call on the home run...the 3B umpire absolutely blew the call on the home run. It really wasn't close and the Bell LF said so in today's Dallas Morning News.

The 3B umpire made the call and to be fair, he did a good job in previous games behind the plate (Game 1 v C-Heritage / Game 2 v LD Bell) but what happened on Saturday was his "Sandusky Moment" as an umpire...there is no good explanation for a 57 year old man to be in the showers with a 12 year old boy and that monster will always have that on his resume. It doesn't really matter what yesterday's 3B umpire has done or will do the rest of his life in baseball. He will still be known as the umpire gullible enough to be faked out on what should have been an easy call...in the 3rd round of the playoffs!!

The worst part about it...it really does get worse.. was the "I know what I saw and I'm not wrong" arrogance displayed afterwards. He was adamant about not reversing the call and admitting he was wrong. The 3 other stooges (known as the rest of the crew) were either afraid to tell him he was wrong or just as incompetent when they got together to discuss what happened.

Somebody needs to retire or be fired over what happened yesterday.

Ok I think you forget to finish the story, did ball not go over the fence? Or did it go over the fence? Did it go foul? And I must say the Sandusky reference is pretty weird.

Wasn't there, but it appears from everything being written it was a botched call by the crew.
Every member of that crew has different responsibilities during the game. So, some of the crew would have not been watching the flight of the ball.
It is what it is.
For those that complain, make a difference next year and sign up with your local TASO chapter.

quote:

For those that complain, make a difference next year and sign up with your local TASO chapter.

Whatever. So everyone here that complains about the coach should have to apply for the job first?

They blew a huge call and they suck for it.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

For those that complain, make a difference next year and sign up with your local TASO chapter.

Whatever. So everyone here that complains about the coach should have to apply for the job first?

They blew a huge call and they suck for it.

My point is that there are several people who want to blame the coach for this or that. Same thing for the officials.
Coaches make mistakes, sometimes they lose games over their mistakes. Officials will make mistakes too. It's inevitable.
Walk in their shoes for a while, and let's see how good everyone is.

quote:

Originally posted by Out in the sticks:

My point is that there are several people who want to blame the coach for this or that. Same thing for the officials.
Coaches make mistakes, sometimes they lose games over their mistakes. Officials will make mistakes too. It's inevitable.
Walk in their shoes for a while, and let's see how good everyone is.

Somethimes the "complainer" just wants to avoid this kind of mistake from happening again to another team. Most of us complain about the decisions made by Obama or Bush, but that doesn't mean we go and start up a campaign of our own for next term's election. Yes, I can cast a new vote, but I gotta wait four years for the next election. Until then, I just might complain about a few decisions made from the oval office. Sorry, part of being free, I guess.

There's no gaurantee that East would've still won the game, but at least they'd have their 2nd earned run on the board. I certainly don't want to see another team go through the same scenario.

Good luck to all teams still remaining!

Fix the problem then and become an ump....

So easy sitting in the stands or at your computer...

Stiglitz- noone will remember that ump, he will not be "tarnished" forever... because nobody cares but you and 27 other parents at Plano East.....

Get a life.

quote:

Originally posted by BJG:
Fix the problem then and become an ump....

This is just a stupid argument.

So if you get an oil change and they forget to put the oil in you should just shut up and become a mechanic?

Or what if the chef overcooks your steak?

Or the doctor slips and slices a major artery during surgery?

If someone completely and horrendously butchers their job it's ok to complain about it. Especially when it has a direct impact on something you've invested a lot of time and effort in.

Not saying it's the reason for a loss, but people should be allowed to vent a little without the holier-than-thou types telling people to pipe down.

Ironhorse, then become an Ump....

Intelligent response.

Apparently you were working 3b that game.

I have no horse in this race, my sons 14.. We see at least one obviously no eyes open call per weekend in these tournamets, The caliber of umpiring is very poor in general, they are there for the pycheck.. no love of the game in most cases. too bad this happened in a huge spot.

The umpire screwed up and he should be criticized for it. He's not a volunteer dad or something, he's supposed to be a paid professional, and that was not a difficult call to make. What annoys me more though is that the other three people on the field let it go. It seems umpires are more worried about not showing up their partners then getting the call right, and that is sad.

The very best umpires are the one, who do ask for help and realize it is about the kids and not them.

That was an easy call, it should not have been blown!!!

Ironhorse- so if what the guy said, who started this thread, is 100% accurate... should the ump be fired?

This wasn't a "huge" game in the grand picture of baseball.... it was big for about 40 pair of parents about 45 kids... less than 10 coaches...

Wasn't at game, but obviously something happened.. two friends of mine were there... one's a football coach at East, one just has a nephew that played on Bells JV team this year.... both said they origionally thought it was a HR.....

Who really cares though....

Who Cares!!! Who Cares!!! Seriously your asking that question?? The kids that played the game and spilled their guts on the field care. The coaches that put so much time into these kids care, not just the current coaches but the youth coaches that worked with these kids to get them ready for varsity ball and the chance to play for their respective schools care. The parents, who spent so much money in summerball, camps, lesson and travel care. The student body and administration who have pride in their school care. Sports is about caring, if you don't care don't play or get involved.

In the grand scheme of things, you are right it really doesn't matter that much, but to ask the question of "who cares" is asinine.

quote:

This wasn't a "huge" game in the grand picture of baseball.... it was big for about 40 pair of parents about 45 kids... less than 10 coaches...

BJG is right this game was not a big deal except for about 130 people..not mention everyone else that was involved or supporting the program.. school admin, students and the communities of HEB and Plano.Heck according to BJG why even play the game? Why even have sports or other activities in school. Let'e just flip coins and see who wins. Yea, these kids haven't been playing baseball for 14-15 years and practing all spring so not that big a deal????? OHHHHH but if BJG had a son or daughter that was affected by this type of outcome he'd be the loudest one crying!!! Good calls and bad calls happen but it doesn't lessen the pain of the outcome. BJG

quote:

Originally posted by justj03:
The umpire screwed up and he should be criticized for it. He's not a volunteer dad or something, he's supposed to be a paid professional, and that was not a difficult call to make. What annoys me more though is that the other three people on the field let it go. It seems umpires are more worried about not showing up their partners then getting the call right, and that is sad.

The very best umpires are the one, who do ask for help and realize it is about the kids and not them.

That was an easy call, it should not have been blown!!!

This was posted in the ask the umpire forum, I posted the accepted mechanic for a 4 man crew.....in this case the 3rd base umpire was the one to go out and make the call..........and it seems he blew it.....

The other umpires have no responsiblity to "back up" this call, each umpire has their own responsibilty on the play...and are in a much worse position to help or assist anc can not override the designated umpire on the call.....U3 has the responsiblity to go out...and make a call.....

Dont blame the crew for this guys mistake.....in my post on the ask the umpire forum, I feel the problem lies with putting umpires in a 4 man crew when most HS umpires have only experience in 2 man crews.....id much rather have a good 2 man or 3 man game than a patched together 4 man game....

As an aside.. The "sandusky moment" comment made in the OP is ridiculous and totally out of place here and most clearly bizarre.....

my bad..... i should of said.. it's no big deal because neither team will get past next weeks series anyway... or even have a chance at winning state... so get knocked out this weekend or next.. seems to of saved some parents some gas money...

Too bad East didn't score more runs, earlier in the game, when they easily could of... then this would be a moot point...

But since it's such a big deal, I will look for it on the news tonight...

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:

quote:

Originally posted by justj03:
The umpire screwed up and he should be criticized for it. He's not a volunteer dad or something, he's supposed to be a paid professional, and that was not a difficult call to make. What annoys me more though is that the other three people on the field let it go. It seems umpires are more worried about not showing up their partners then getting the call right, and that is sad.

The very best umpires are the one, who do ask for help and realize it is about the kids and not them.

That was an easy call, it should not have been blown!!!

This was posted in the ask the umpire forum, I posted the accepted mechanic for a 4 man crew.....in this case the 3rd base umpire was the one to go out and make the call..........and it seems he blew it.....

The other umpires have no responsiblity to "back up" this call, each umpire has their own responsibilty on the play...and are in a much worse position to help or assist anc can not override the designated umpire on the call.....U3 has the responsiblity to go out...and make a call.....

Dont blame the crew for this guys mistake.....in my post on the ask the umpire forum, I feel the problem lies with putting umpires in a 4 man crew when most HS umpires have only experience in 2 man crews.....id much rather have a good 2 man or 3 man game than a patched together 4 man game....

As an aside.. The "sandusky moment" comment made in the OP is ridiculous and totally out of place here and most clearly bizarre.....

I would agree on the Sandusky maybe more of the umpire that missed the call on the perfect game last year would be a little better not to say this was a perfect game. None the less, The biggest problem with the call is I believe the ump at 3rd was the crew chief and second he did ask for assistance from home plate than called the 2nd base ump and then the third base ump. Its over and nothing will change the call. He made no effort to turn and find and run down the line though to see if he could pick it up. It's over nothing will change it at this point,

quote:

Originally posted by BJG:
my bad..... i should of said.. it's no big deal because neither team will get past next weeks series anyway... or even have a chance at winning state... so get knocked out this weekend or next.. seems to of saved some parents some gas money...

Too bad East didn't score more runs, earlier in the game, when they easily could of... then this would be a moot point...

But since it's such a big deal, I will look for it on the news tonight...

Correct East had it's opportunities to win no doubt should of scored more runs..., however East played against Martin Twice losing 4-2 and tying 7-7 earlier in the year. They can get beat as anyone can they are a very good team top to bottom but they are not the Texas Rangers either. Hopefully it will be a clean series with no umpire drama as it should be settled on the field. Good luck to both teams..

Too bad East didn't score more runs, earlier in the game, when they easily could of... then this would be a moot point.

I completely agree with this comment. Just another bunch of whining Plano parents looking to blame someone else for their own kids inability to get the job done early. Grow up East...lose like a man and move on. I don't hear any Highland Park or Centennial parents griping.

quote:

Originally posted by Ballmom7:
Too bad East didn't score more runs, earlier in the game, when they easily could of... then this would be a moot point.

I completely agree with this comment. Just another bunch of whining Plano parents looking to blame someone else for their own kids inability to get the job done early. Grow up East...lose like a man and move on. I don't hear any Highland Park or Centennial parents griping.

Easy there, Sugar.

Read the very first post. The blown call did not keep Plano East from winning the game. East had their chances early and didn't cash in.

This discussion is not meant to take away from LD Bell's victory. They earned it. Furthermore everybody I saw associated with LD Bell was very classy, fans, parents, coaches, players... before the series and after the series. I wish them nothing but luck.

This discussion is about a set of umpires who need to be fired or be retired because they're incompetent and / or afraid to tell the crew chief he screwed the pooch at the worst possible moment.

IMO BJG is an idiot. By your logic no playoff game really matters because only a few parents and players are affected. So it's just ok for umps to foul up. That's stupid logic. Doesn't matter if they would win next series or next game. We all want the calls to be correct. If a kid is a senior and that was his last game, it matters a great deal to him.

Unfortunately, the guy saw what he saw - or didn't see.

If you follow ch 8's HS Sports Special you saw flower mound girls eliminated by an umpiring mistake a week back. And it was the game winner.

quote:

Originally posted by Ballmom7:
Too bad East didn't score more runs, earlier in the game, when they easily could of... then this would be a moot point.

I completely agree with this comment. Just another bunch of whining Plano parents looking to blame someone else for their own kids inability to get the job done early. Grow up East...lose like a man and move on. I don't hear any Highland Park or Centennial parents griping.

I am sure you have never complained about a bad call!?! If you knew the story behind the kid that hit the home run it even makes it a little worse. If you read all the posts you will see that most people agree had East scored more runs when they had opportunity it would be a moot point.

OK I don't understand why you claim that the quality of umpires has gone down. Being that they are paid professionals. You get berated by parents, coaches, and players everyday, with no support being given. Blamed for every call that goes against one team (which is every call), recieve threats to your safety. All for 70 bucks a game.
Yes it is good money and why not be in it for the money, but when you don't show them any respect and they get blamed for everything it wears you down.
If the "good Umpires" are leaving can you blame them. NO lets blame the parents of the players who don't teach their kids to respect the athority.

so...... they are paid "prefessionals". Hmmmmm, I am pretty sure that If i didnt know the rules of my job i would be fired. For some reason, there are a lot of umpires that dont know the rules, but are still put in charge of something people put hours and hours of work into. Not to mention, that these coaches (who ALL have college degrees) jobs depend on these games. Doesnt seem right that there is no accountability for umpires.

Sucks that the call was blown, but if an ump was fired every time they missed a call, you wouldn't have ANY left.

quote:

Originally posted by Rookies:
Sucks that the call was blown, but if an ump was fired every time they missed a call, you wouldn't have ANY left.

The missed call wasn't the problem...that's going to happen at every level of baseball.

THE problem was the 3B umpire who wouldn't admit he never saw where the ball went but then insisted that he did. He was completely deeked by Bell's LF and didn't have the guts to admit he was wrong.

Instead of manning up, he started to lie about what he saw and then couldn't stop. He emphatically told the East coach that the ball was foul and wasn't in the mood for an appeal because he was trying to sell something he wasn't sure about...after all he's the Crew Chief and the Crew Chief is never wrong otherwise he wouldn't become a Crew Chief.

When challenged to appeal what he had seen to the other umpires, he was even more emphatic. The other umpires were intimidated and nobody was going to challenge him.

THAT is the problem with what happened last Saturday. The 3B umpire wouldn't admit he was wrong and his crew was afraid to tell him the obvious.

The hero in all of this is the kid from Bell who had the guts to speak up and tell the world that ball was fair.

Otherwise the idiot who was on 3B keeps telling the world he had that call all the way and that Plano East was whining about something that didn't happen.

My hope is that this incident comes up at every training film for umpires through eternity. Watch the freaking ball and not the LF...and if you're wrong and you know it, don't be afraid to ask for help.

And if you're on a crew with somebody like last week's 3B umpire, speak up...otherwise you're going to end up on a training film on what not to do.

Get the call right and stop worrying about your ego...you're a freaking high school umpire...there's no room for your ego in the 3rd round of the playoffs.

quote:

Originally posted by Stiglitz:

quote:

Originally posted by Rookies:
Sucks that the call was blown, but if an ump was fired every time they missed a call, you wouldn't have ANY left.

The missed call wasn't the problem...that's going to happen at every level of baseball.

THE problem was the 3B umpire who wouldn't admit he never saw where the ball went but then insisted that he did. He was completely deeked by Bell's LF and didn't have the guts to admit he was wrong.

Instead of manning up, he started to lie about what he saw and then couldn't stop. He emphatically told the East coach that the ball was foul and wasn't in the mood for an appeal because he was trying to sell something he wasn't sure about...after all he's the Crew Chief and the Crew Chief is never wrong otherwise he wouldn't become a Crew Chief.

When challenged to appeal what he had seen to the other umpires, he was even more emphatic. The other umpires were intimidated and nobody was going to challenge him.

THAT is the problem with what happened last Saturday. The 3B umpire wouldn't admit he was wrong and his crew was afraid to tell him the obvious.

The hero in all of this is the kid from Bell who had the guts to speak up and tell the world that ball was fair.

Otherwise the idiot who was on 3B keeps telling the world he had that call all the way and that Plano East was whining about something that didn't happen.

My hope is that this incident comes up at every training film for umpires through eternity. Watch the freaking ball and not the LF...and if you're wrong and you know it, don't be afraid to ask for help.

And if you're on a crew with somebody like last week's 3B umpire, speak up...otherwise you're going to end up on a training film on what not to do.

Get the call right and stop worrying about your ego...you're a freaking high school umpire...there's no room for your ego in the 3rd round of the playoffs.

A few questions..

Have you talked with any of the umpires in the crew to know what they talked about when they got together? and ask them what they saw or didn't see?

Why are you assuming this guy was the Crew Chief?

Why are you assuming the other umpires were intimidated and would not challenge him?

2nd base umpire is busting in to cover 2nd, not watching the ball and has no angle on Fair/Foul..

1st base umpire is watching touch by Batter/Runner, not watching the ball and also has no angle Fair/Foul...

If you don't know what you are talking about maybe you need to not say anything cause when you assume things you look stupid.

And no I was not on the crew...

The guy blew an easy call, plain and simple and should have asked for help. He was watching the left fielder instead of the ball. Calls are blown, but stig is right, just ask for help and dont be so stubborn.

This happens every year at this time. Game has 300 pitches and 54 outs and somehow it comes down to the umpires blowing a call. It's never the pitcher giving up 5 walks or grooving one, the coach moving the outfield and then having a ball hit to where they were, the 3 errors on defense or the 9 strikeouts at the plate.

It's always "We'd a won if it weren't for those Stupid, Lazy, Incompentent, Lousy, Cheating, ****** umpires."

No doubt a tough loss but...it will pass. If it doesn't, THAT is something to worry about.

I wonder how many calls that 3rd base ump had that game??

Isball- cry me a river.

Stiglitz - I would assume that if you called one of your co-workers "sugar" it would be okay.... you wouldn't get fired.... nice to see your sexist comment on here though since you are "the professional" here....

Rock Dad - By looking at your grammar, "no playoff game really matters" would get you a maximum score of about a 2 on the new STAAR test.

Great Bambino - What rule didn't the umpire know? HS coaches do all have college degrees, but not for coaching baseball. They have their degrees to be educators in the classroom.

Rookies - Exactly. Things happens.... deal with it.

Tx Ump - Great post.Can't wait to hear his response... from all the blaming he is throwing around and the accusations he must of been right there in the middle of it, on the field, and talked with all the players and coaches before the play, during the play, and right after the play.

Luvbaseball - An even better post.

Had enough of this nonsense so I'm chiming in. I work HS ball in Dallas. I know the 3B umpire. I sent him a text around the game ending time Saturday to see how it turned out. He immediately called me and told me what happened. He was upset and disappointed. I wasn't there to see it so all I can do is trust what I was told, and I do because he is a stand up guy and always shoots straight with me.

He said he had the ball off the bat, turned to go out down the line and lost the ball in the sky. Said he looked for it to hit in the net but that did not happen either. Just plain lost it in the sky. He ruled foul knowing that HP would be up the line to help. Said he had a brief discussion with PE coach on the way to talk to HP. Trouble is HP also lost the ball in the sky. He also said that players lost the ball in the sky twice during the game. It's just bad luck at the worst time people. We've all been there. I remember losing a ball off the bat years ago and I watched the batter touch all four and nobody said a word. I asked my partner between innings what happened and he said I guess it went over the fence because he never saw it either. Then we have the LF diving into foul ground. My friend said he didn't know what the LF did until one of the other crew members told him while they were discussing the play. My big question about the LF and his statement is how did he see the ball as fair when he was diving into foul ground. He certainly didn't see the entire flight of the ball. Anyone got a good answer for that? Did any of you smart guys out there even consider that?

Now back to my friend the 3B umpire. I tried to give him encouragement and he said that it would bother him if any umpire that had that happen didn't feel as bad as he did. I imagine he has lost plenty of sleep this week replaying that shot in his mind. I know I do it when I get a call wrong. You guys that puff up about us telling you to give a try, it's important for you to consider this. The majority of us do care and take it to heart when we make a mistake. If any of you think you can go out there and make calls with out making a mistake then you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't fret over the ones you miss, then you don't really care about doing a good job and don't belong out there. Those that have this level of compassion don't intentionally boot calls. Anyone that does will be found out and won't be working any meaningful game. There are guys that just do it for the money, and most of us don't like working with them. If you just care about making money, then stand on the coach pitch field all day. You will make more money and put up with a lot less grief.
Any of you umpire haters out there want to give it a try, just go to the TASO website and get the contact information for Dallas or Alliance (Ft. Worth) chapters and give us a call. If you come to Dallas, you will be well trained by several solid umpires including the guy at 3B and me. We can use the help

It's over and life goes on. BJG will still be driving his pickup truck with bull nuts hanging off the trailer hitch.

cwag - great info. that correlates with my buddy, who coaches football at East, and said that it must of been foul because the outfielder was laid out in foul territory.....

Bjg
Not sure what your buddy was watching but there was no diving laid out leftfielder in foul territory. Just a kid who ran through the ball and fooled a grown man. This story is becoming like that 3 pound bass that will be 9 pounds by saturday. Just keeps getting bigger.

Well said BJG and cwag!

Stiglitz, your "sugar" reference only proves your impotence towards women .. but I'm sure that's something your wife is already very well aware of

I have been sitting on the fence long enough and had to chime in. Was at the Bell/East game last week standing behind the backstop with a clear view of the 3rd base foul line. East was the visiting team in the 1st base dugout. Heard and seen the first or second pitch come off of the Senior’s bat and clearly go over the fence very much in fair territory. It hit the netting about 10 feet to the right of the foul pole extension flag. Clearly a HR. During the commotion at the pitchers mound of whole umpire crew, would it have been too much to ask someone to find the ball? Not saying it would be landing in fair territory behind the 315 sign, but you get the picture. My son plays on the East Baseball team and he has clearly moved on as we all should. We are not blaming the umpires for missing what was clearly a HR for the loss. East had it’s opportunities in the 1st inning with bases loaded. In the 2nd inning, East had runners in scoring position and could not score. This loss does not go against the umpire and his crew. I talked with my son after the game and told him that this great game of baseball will reward you with the highest of highs, and then turn right around and just rip your heart out the next moment. It is what it is and that’s how baseball go. We also talked about how the Plano East Girls Softball team got the big break last weekend against Flower Mound in what was clearly a missed call at home plate with the Flower Mound player clearly safe at the plate. This past weekend, the East Baseball Team did not get that break and instead failed to capitalize on numerous opportunities. Congratulations to Bell and good luck against Martin in the Regional Finals. One parting note, The Dallas Morning News and Plano Star Courier both picked Plano East to finish 4th and 5th in District 8-5A and not make the playoffs. Boy were they both dead wrong!!! 3rd round of the State Playoffs was not bad. Wouldn’t you agree?

Good Luck LD Bell!!!!

or Arlington Martin!