For those 2022 who remain undrafted at this late date, this is worth a read. It's not an easy read, but a realistic one. And it this point, if you really, truly want to play, you need to be 100% real about the current landscape and where you fit in. From the terrific scout/recruiter Josh Rudd:
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Tough pill to swallow and I'd hate to be in their shoes. At what point do you start to put your focus on best academic fit or the best potential to walk-on? I bet in four or five years there will be some great stories of kids who didn't get offered and were successful as a walk-on.
@Wechson posted:For those 2022 who remain undrafted at this late date, this is worth a read. It's not an easy read, but a realistic one. And it this point, if you really, truly want to play, you need to be 100% real about the current landscape and where you fit in. From the terrific scout/recruiter Josh Rudd:
Reads just like 4 threads on HSBBW were cut and pasted together. Exact same content has been posted on this board for months.
It’s tough everywhere, for every class. Talent is jam packed everywhere. Cry me a river, 2022’s. A lot of the 2018’s and 2017’s missed out on 2 years of College Baseball, and have to either go back for a 5th or 6th year or get on with their life. The 2017-2020 classes all missed out on 1 year of their college career plus had at least a less than normal season this past spring.
if you are going into this with a “life isn’t fair” attitude, then you aren’t cut out for College Baseball. The kids that don’t work hard enough sit the bench for 4 years anyways, or get cut, in every class. In some ways this just does those type of kids a favor, as it cuts out the daydreamers & let’s them get on with their non-Baseball life, and leaves room only for those smart enough to go where they are loved and tough enough to grind every single day.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Tough pill to swallow and I'd hate to be in their shoes. At what point do you start to put your focus on best academic fit or the best potential to walk-on? I bet in four or five years there will be some great stories of kids who didn't get offered and were successful as a walk-on.
To be totally flippant, recruits should be looking at the best academic fit from the very beginning because most will not become professional baseball players...that is the tough pill to swallow.
In this market, calculated walk-ons are going to be a necessity. Having some inside information about a program is going to be very valuable. Typically the advice here is to avoid walking-on, but the reality is that 2022 will most likely be a walk-on palooza.
JMO.
Best part of this article too many refuse to grasp …
The market will tell a kid where he belongs. That’s one of the best lessons a college coach ever taught me. Recruits, that means you’ll find where you fit athletically if you look everywhere. For example, if we reach out to every team in the country, and the only responses we get are from D3’s in the Midwest, then the market is D3 schools in colder weather. And this is when it becomes decision time.
Realizing where you stand on the market can be a hard reality for a family to accept. You’ll need to decide if 1) you like what the baseball market has to offer or 2) if you just want to go to the college of your choice. Either one is fine as long as you have conviction in your decision.
@adbono posted:Reads just like 4 threads on HSBBW were cut and pasted together. Exact same content has been posted on this board for months.
It sure does. Interesting that Josh tried dipping his toe into the HSBBW pool a while back, but has been AWOL since he wasn't showered with warm fuzzies around every corner. The guy does provide some valuable info for many, but to get to it, you have to first get passed his "dig me" schtick.
I don't believe this is a covid hurricane thing. I really believe this is the case every year - covid or not.
The only guys that should be focused on D1s in September of their senior year are guys with offers who are just deciding on which to choose or waiting to get full financial packages.
Even if D1s are interested past Aug 15th or so, they're only interested because options A,B,C and even further down the alphabet didn't pan out. So why would you walk into a situation where the money (if any) is slim, but also where they never really wanted you in the first place, they just needed somebody. Obviously there are exceptions. Late bloomers, coaching changes, large scholarship offers that offset.
But if there are two D1s interested and 6 D3s...what does that tell you?
But if there are two D1s interested and 6 D3s...what does that tell you?
One of my son’s 17u teammates received one major conference D1 offer and several offers from ranked D2’s. The kid took the major conference offer.
The kid never saw the field. By mid season the coach had decided there wouldn’t be an offer for soph year. I coached the kid through 16u. I thought he was physically maxed out. He was physically maxed out to the point where it was affecting his throwing.
I saw a D2 player all the way. Had the kid stayed local he might have started from the beginning at what became the D2 national champion.
from RJM: For example, if we reach out to every team in the country, and the only responses we get are from D3’s in the Midwest, then the market is D3 schools in colder weather.
This is important. The division level might be simpler to understand than the location of the school. All 3 of my guys are clearly D3 level. None of them got a serious look from warm weather D3s, but all of them got multiple offers from all over the northern half of the country. Our experience may be unique but it seems to indicate that there's more to this recruiting game than simply figuring out what pond to fish in. Some areas of the pond are more equal than others.
@smokeminside posted:This is important. The division level might be simpler to understand than the location of the school. All 3 of my guys are clearly D3 level. None of them got a serious look from warm weather D3s, but all of them got multiple offers from all over the northern half of the country. Our experience may be unique but it seems to indicate that there's more to this recruiting game than simply figuring out what pond to fish in. Some areas of the pond are more equal than others.
Exact same experience for my current D3 freshman kid.
@smokeminside posted:All 3 of my guys are clearly D3 level. None of them got a serious look from warm weather D3s, but all of them got multiple offers from all over the northern half of the country. Our experience may be unique but it seems to indicate that there's more to this recruiting game than simply figuring out what pond to fish in. Some areas of the pond are more equal than others.
Although we live in the southeast, my son didn't focus a lot of energy on those schools, so take this fwiw: Isn't some of the "cold weather schools" phenomenon a function of the fact there just aren't a lot of HA D3s in warmer parts of the country? Yes, there are some great HA schools in the south, but not so many as in New England, the mid-Atlantic, or even the midwest.
Also fwiw, my son found that southern HA D3s just didn't respond to email inquiries. So far as I could tell, if they hadn't already seen you in person, you didn't exist. This was true even for schools within a few hours' drive that were no more academically demanding (and in many cases had lesser baseball reputations) than schools further north. (See, e.g., the recent thread on Washington & Lee.)
I do think there's a large dose of randomness in the process (or at least the influence of factors you can't control or understand). My advice is to cast a wide net among schools you'd be willing to attend, then focus your efforts wherever there is demonstrated interest from a coach. If that's in a place where you need to shovel snow out of the batting cage in April, then just plan on packing warm clothes.
@Chico Escuela posted:Although we live in the southeast, my son didn't focus a lot of energy on those schools, so take this fwiw: Isn't some of the "cold weather schools" phenomenon a function of the fact there just aren't a lot of HA D3s in warmer parts of the country? Yes, there are some great HA schools in the south, but not so many as in New England, the mid-Atlantic, or even the midwest.
Also fwiw, my son found that southern HA D3s just didn't respond to email inquiries. So far as I could tell, if they hadn't already seen you in person, you didn't exist. This was true even for schools within a few hours' drive that were no more academically demanding (and in many cases had lesser baseball reputations) than schools further north. (See, e.g., the recent thread on Washington & Lee.)
I do think there's a large dose of randomness in the process (or at least the influence of factors you can't control or understand). My advice is to cast a wide net among schools you'd be willing to attend, then focus your efforts wherever there is demonstrated interest from a coach. If that's in a place where you need to shovel snow out of the batting cage in April, then just plan on packing warm clothes.
The only HA D3 I could find on any HA list (a couple of top 50 and 75) from the Deep South is Emory. Are there others?
@RJM posted:The only HA D3 I could find on any HA list (a couple of top 50 and 75) from the Deep South is Emory. Are there others?
Wouldn’t call it the “deep” south but the school my son now attends, W&L, should qualify as southern. Culturally certainly as south, if not more, than Emory.
@RJM posted:The only HA D3 I could find on any HA list (a couple of top 50 and 75) from the Deep South is Emory. Are there others?
I’m not sure what the criteria is for that list but in Texas there are some schools that should be in the conversation - depending on the field of study. The University of Texas at Dallas is excellent for business, engineering & technology majors. Trinity University in San Antonio is more of a typical liberal arts college but is also highly respected across the board academically. Both play very good D3 baseball. UTD is public and Trinity is private.
@adbono posted:I’m not sure what the criteria is for that list but in Texas there are some schools that should be in the conversation - depending on the field of study. The University of Texas at Dallas is excellent for business, engineering & technology majors. Trinity University in San Antonio is more of a typical liberal arts college but is also highly respected across the board academically. Both play very good D3 baseball. UTD is public and Trinity is private.
Trinity (TX) is on the list. I’m referring to Tennessee to Florida and across to Louisiana as the Deep South.
A TN school I missed on the list is Rhodes.
Go to D3 baseball you can sort by region
Wait, RJM, you're being kind of snobby here...
Emory is the only HA D3 in the south according to a few different search tools. They had W&L under the mid-Atlantic. Rhodes was next on the list.
Perhaps Tim the enchanter could expand on HA criteria
@anotherparent posted:Wait, RJM, you're being kind of snobby here...
A person from the Southeast sent their kid to a Northeast D3 HA. It got me thinking about what D3 HA’s are in the Southeast. From having lived in New England, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and California I’m aware of the HA D3’s in these areas.
Check out Emory's roster, they are mostly from the northeast or CA.
There were a couple of good threads here ~18 months ago about "what is an HA." (And I opined at length there, so for now I'll just say "opinions differ--and that's OK.") Some folks' lists might include Sewanee or Hampden-Sydney, for example.
Washington & Lee has a crypt with a life-size reclining sculpture of Robert E. Lee (which is located in Lee Chapel). Lexington, VA is surrounded by places that saw fighting in the Civil War and the town is full of reminders of The Recent Unpleasantness. If W&L isn't southern, I can't imagine what would be. (And I say this as someone who's family has been in the south for 250+ years.
Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon line. So opinions might differ about how to define "the south," too. I'm ok with that. Just make sure your son contacts a wide array of schools if he's fishing in the D3 pond, because my experience was that there is almost no predicting which ones will show interest.
I’m a native NYC’er and have to profess the 3 times I’ve been to Lexington, I’ve been completely charmed by it. I’d categorize as “Garden & Gun” south 😂
Is the Mason Dixon line still the standard delineation for the South? For me, Staten Island is the south, the traffic getting there from my house can take as much time as driving to the actual Mason Dixon line
As someone who moved from the North (MA, CT, RI, NYC, etc...) to Richmond, Virginia 30+ years ago, I can give you my two cents. There is the physical "south" and then there is the metaphysical "south". Virginia has changed a lot in the last 30 years, so my viewpoint is probably rather new than to others who grew up in it. Everybody's idea of the "South" is changing, and Virginia is changing quickly politically and socially. I see it everyday in the former capital of the Confederacy. This past Wednesday, Robert E Lees statue was removed from a central part of town called Monument Avenue. My point is this isn't your grandpappy's "South" anymore.
In my mind, The current "South" starts in Fredericksburg, VA once you've left Washington DC and Northern Virginia and head down to Richmond. The "South" is also a state of mind, and Lexington, VA where W&L is located is very much the "South". W&L was one of the first schools to contact and offer my son (through his travel coach) as they saw him play next door at a VMI showcase. We visited W&L a couple of times, and I know several alumni. More importantly than what you and I think, they think it is the "South".
JMO.
I grew up in the south, but have lived out of it after high school. My definition of the South is the place where they routinely serve both sweet and unsweet tea (and don't bother to call it "iced"). The line was about where Fenway says, at Fredricksburg, VA.
I recently bought a vacation home in southern Maryland, this part of the state is certainly southern. From attitude, to pace of life, to hush puppies with both sweet and unsweetened tea…it is way more southern then northern VA
My all time favorite Deep South story.
Years ago we visited a fish farm restaurant near Augusta GA. When placing our orders, my son in law asked for his fish broiled. They said it was extra if not fried.
Better yet when we asked where the salad bar was located, she told us they had a all you can eat hush puppy and grits bar!!!
They I got lost and drove thru a "Travelers" neighborhood. Very nice large homes that were covered in aluminum foil for a year while they lived in trailers in the back yard.
But all told I loved the "good ole boys" from the South I served with in the ARMY.
@adbono posted:Reads just like 4 threads on HSBBW were cut and pasted together. Exact same content has been posted on this board for months.
Due to perceived time management constraints, many interested parties, just want a simple consolidated answer.
Note most information on social media is repurposed from another source.
Josh has a more than 15.8k followers on twitter, so I believe the strategy is understood.
HSBBW is like that old baseball scout, not much flash, good content, but it might take a while to consume.
Has recruiting drastically changed in the last 10 years?
Who remembers the book written by The Sports Source?
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:....................................................
Has recruiting drastically changed in the last 10 years?
If drastically = significantly, then the answer is "yes" in my opinion. The experiences my son had with recruiting 10 years ago is quite a bit different than the people I know going through it today. This is probably a good topic to start another thread.
I grew up part of the time in Baltimore and in rural Maryland just outside of Baltimore. Once you get outside of the city limits and past the suburbs you are definitely in the “south” for the most part
@anotherparent posted:Check out Emory's roster, they are mostly from the northeast or CA.
Probably because it is an extremely liberal school
Ha! I'm from further south than all of you put together! (won a few bar bets with this one)
I'm gonna disagree on THE South. In THE South, they serve sweet tea and you have to ask for it to be unsweet and all tea has ice in it down here. I'm not sure most southerners would consider most of Virginia to be in the south anymore because it is too close to Washington and Maryland definitely is not. And some would say there are sections of Florida that have lost their right to be called Southern due to the large influx of Snowbirds. When we lived in Missouri, someone told me I still living in the South and I had to laugh.
Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon Line. But they were neutral during the Civil War. I don’t feel like I’m in the South when I’m in Baltimore.
I don’t feel like I’m in the South when I’m in the Washington suburbs of Maryland and Virginia. I’m with Fenway. It doesn’t start to feel Southern until approaching Fredericksburg. Although a lot Louden County has a Kentucky feel to it with its horse ranches.
When I spent a week on business in Charlotte I felt like I was in Any City USA. However, the people were a lot nicer than the Northeast.
My kids grew up in Philadelphia suburbs. My son went to college in the Midwest. His first impression as he called it, the people are “goofy nice.” I told him they just don’t play “in your face” like he was accustomed.
I go back and forth between homes in Southern ME and the North Shore of Boston. When I head back to Boston I joke “it’s time to get my FU back on.”
