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quote:
The summer collegiate leagues are a great place to be seen by other schools.


I’m not disagreeing with that statement simply because I don’t know ---- so let me ask--- Wouldn’t the college coaches be too busy looking at the better high school summer teams, players, tournaments, and showcases where virtually 100% of the participants are prospective players instead of a college league where few if any are prospects ---- unless these college teams were comprised of JUCO players?
Fungo
base4,
I think Moc1 gives good advice. Buy the way, you don’t have to share on a public internet message board why your son is unhappy ---- I know I wouldn’t. That information is not a requirement to get and answer about how to go about transferring to another college. Putting information on the HSBBW message board is like having a party line with thousands listening in. That’s the reason the PM (private message) feature is used.
Fungo
base4,
the release is for the "player" ...
friendly "chat" by parents, uncles, friends, etc are not covered by NCAA rules

guys that formerly recruited your son will often help if you didn't burn any bridges with 'em.

IF I was gonna do it, and IF face to face contact isn't possible, I'd have someone
(parent, player etc) forward a note of interest to coaching staff with your # & that of a hs or summer coach ...
if there IS interest on their part they may feel better calling the 3rd party
(**btw ... don't pick a parent who's son will be affected by your transfer)

re personal reasons;
I know a guy who told the NEW coach that his current pitching coach was a *?#%%^@! A** ...
trans was completed, played in CWS & now in pro ball

again, good luck
Last edited by Chairman
TR, you are correct ... there should be pretty close control over what is communicated by a third party

that said:
transfers are no big deal & happen EVERY year for a variety of reasons ...

some players getting out of a "bad" situation ..
some players are chasing a "better" situation ..
some programs/boosters/friends of pgm, even "recruit" players not previousy thinking about a transfer ..
I'll add this as well,

IMO the NCAA's transfer rules are generally good for college baseball, when they are not abused by either side

coaches who overstock at a certain position can't "lock up" a player who is burried in their depth chart for 4 yrs

programs with guys leaving regularly are likely to draw the attention of the AD & alum who will find the problem and fix it .. even if it takes a moving van to do it

some players "thought" being far from home would work out fine .. but doesn't

some players "thought" staying close to home would be fine .. but isn't



wishing base4 the best for his son, & hope everything works out
Last edited by Chairman
Fungo - I think you're correct on the summer leagues. The league Michael is playing in is just that - full of JUCO kids and thus will have more exposure to college coaches.


Base4 - My own JUCO son is in the process of transferring this summer to a 4 year. I strongly recommend that you contact previous coaches/scouts you/player had relationships with. Their words and opinions mean alot more than a parent calling a coach.
Last edited by lafmom
I am with POPTIME here-- no need to know the personal reasons but sometimes the grass aint greener on the other side of the fence -_AND you still have to mow it--and no power mower

Too many kids get what I call "Itchy Feet" ---they look to jump before the situation is fully developed--typical of the kids today--"If I dont have it here I will go somehwere else"--great attitude to carry with you into the business world (Real world)-- it gets stale very quickly-- spoonfeeding doesnt go on forever
TR - I think you're right. I've seen kids over the years change their leagues or HS multiple times because they're not happy. It is usually about playing time. Not a good lesson for kids to be learning IMO.

However, I've seen college kids transfer for many and varied reasons. It's difficult to really know how a school and a baseball program fits someone until they're there. A friend of mine pointed out to me that 60% of marriages end in divorce and most people marry feeling like they've made a lifetime commitment. Things just aren't what they seemed sometimes and/or things change.

If it's not a place that a player is happy academically or athletically, may be best for all to make a change. However, I don't think the decision to change should be made lightly.

Also, if a scout or coach is going to recommend a player - they're not going to do it if they think that kid is going to embarrass them or is a problem "hopping" schools.
Last edited by lafmom
Fungo--

I didn't mean to imply that college coaches hang out at summer collegiate league games to troll for players. But between the summer coaches, the other players on the team, and the player's own contacts, discussions with college coaches can be initiated and followed up on. In my son's case, he had a couple of colege coaches travel to see him in a summer collegiate game. Also, because one of the schools interested in him had players on one of the opposing teams, that school's coach had his players "scout" my son and report back. If you are transferring, summer is quite a fertile season to garner some attention.

Base4 -- I think you are being a little sensitive. Students transfer for a variety of reasons, many of them legitimate. But the other side is also true -- freshman year being what it is, some kids lose patience and think they want to transfer, but it sometimes isn't the best idea.

Just keep in mind that it can be TOUGH to transfer, both in baseball and in the classroom, so make sure it is the best solution to the problem. There WILL be a price to be paid.
You are awfully touchy - maybe you answered the question I asked.
You didn't have to give a reason but it is importanat if you want advice. If it is because he dosen't get along with coach or players you will get different advice than if he is unhappy about playing time. Maybe he dosen't like the city or many other reasons.
Simply as stated get the release and you take your chances. Every coach will ask why he was unhappy and some may care and some may not.
Whatever, the true reason does not have to be disclosed, even to the new coach. A release is a release, means that the player has been released of obligation for that school. Period.

As far as summer, many transfer after developing friendships in the summer leagues. But word of caution, sometimes as TR says, the grass is NOT always greener and may not be in players best interest.

However, players should keep in mind, happy or unhappy that you don't want to burn bridges.

Good luck to your son!
TPM, how are you this morning?!? When you say that his reasons don't have to be disclosed are you saying that the prospective coach has no right to ask, or that base4 isn't compelled to answer? I don't think I'd be in too much of a hurry to sign this kid if he can't be forthcoming enough to state why he was unhappy with his other team, or school. I think it would probably be the first thing I asked. Would the prospective coach be forbidden to contact the previous coach to try to get to the bottom of it? How'd your son do last weekend? I haven't had achance to check.
CHAIRMAN

The college coaching circle is tight---dollars to donuts any and all prospective new coaches will want to know why--- perhaps they dont want the same problems the precipitated the request to leave--playing time is usually the norm but in this case it is said that playing time is not the problem--If I am the new coach being contacted I would want to know what the story is if it isnt playing time
Last edited by TRhit
The question of why you are transferring comes up in the business world all the time.

The prospective employer may say:

"Why are you seeking to change jobs?"

Response 1: "My boss is a knucklehead and the management at that company are all cheap skates" (Exaggerated for effect).

Framing things negatively will give the impression that you are a problem employee and you will thus very likely not get an offer from them.

Response 2:

"I really like that company and the opportunity that they gave me, but I just don't feel challenged enough at this time and therefore I am seeking an opportunity for professional growth like you are offering."

I advocate truthfulness but my advice is to frame potential loaded questions in the positive and that will hopefully prevent any negative red flags from getting raised.

You can practice these skills with your son as well. Pretend you are the coach and ask him all the potential questions or concerns a coach might have and practice how to frame the responses in the best possible light.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
if coaching circles were REALLY that tight the new coach would already know the reason Wink

again ... if the player is in good standing with the school & the team that's all that matters

it's irrelevant whether the old coach choked him for breaking up with his daughter ... etc

I also agree with CD, that lying your a** off is a viable option greenjump
Last edited by Chairman
Mr Hit, tho I agree ... sometimes things can be understood without being "detailed"

ex: recently a university in S. Orange fired their coach of 31 yrs because his "transfer classes" regularly exceeded the size of his "recruiting classes" and the resulting paperwork generated by the school(s) & the NCAA were beginning to endanger forests in the pacific NW ... kidding
plus it pisst off boosters and alum

there would be no need for the steady stream of guys leaving to "bad mouth" him or the program ... other coaches understood the "problem" without a player going into details dazeda

to other coaches, picking up good players from that program was like "shooting fish in a barrel" dirol
Last edited by Chairman
For the most part, all of these answers apply, EXCEPT lying. Since the employer/employee comparison has been made. It is logical for most employers to call and "check references". TR is correct in that many (if not most) college coaches make that phone call. Lying would be ill advised. It all depends on the "personal reasons" (which should be kept private, and not discussed here!). Just as with old employers, you definitely don't want to leave them any room to give you a "bad reference". Find out the legally "correct" way (NCAA) to transfer,weigh the pros & cons of leaving, ask for transfer in a civil, business-like way, Evaluate EVERYTHING to make sure you make the best decision/choice to assure that the "personal reasons" to not re-occur. Hopefully you should then be able to go have fun, work hard and play baseball!
lying your a** off?? ...
oops, I should have said "frame potential loaded questions in the positive" ...
it sounds better Roll Eyes but means the same thing

oops II ... unless the old coach is HELPING the player leave via his contacts ...
it is NOT LIKELY there will be ANY communication between coaches ...
some will even consider the NEW coach "lower than a snake's belly" for years worm

jmo ... but one you can "bank" on
08
Last edited by Chairman
base4 I never meant to say YOU would lie, "lying" is implied in other posts. Actually, I don't think anyone really meant "lying", more "creative wording".
When you post a question, thoughts or otherwise here, you get opinions, help and sometimes a laugh! If the post offends you, do not take it personally, sometimes a thread gets a "life of its own". I believe everyone IS trying to help you, by giving their "differing" "takes" on your quandry. Everyone comes here with a different set of life experiences, some will help in your situation, some will not. It sounds to me like you may already have the answers you need. I wish you and your son the very best outcome.
Hi,
I just found this thread and I hope it's okay to add additional questions to it.

My son is in a situation where we are looking to transfer as well. Is this a process that can be started during the season or do you hold off until the season is over? Should we talk to the coach first or go to the Athletic Director of the school. As of now there does not seem to be any open line of communication to the head coach. I am not sure why, I don't think there has been an issue. It's just the way it at this program.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I can only tell you about the most EFFECTIVE way it works at my son's school...at the end of the season there is an "exit interview" with each player...at that time, certain players requested releases...and were given releases. All releases requested before that time were denied. Several players who did not request releases and played summer ball, expressed regret at not having requested release, because they saw better fit elsewhere. I am not sure if release/transfers are affected by the new NCAA graduation ratio rules. Someone else might know that.
Karen, Welcome to HSBBW!

As I shared earlier in this thread, my son decided to transfer early on last year while at his first year at a JUCO. This does make the dynamics a bit different than trying to transfer within NCAA schools. I will give you one bit of advice though and that is for your son to WAIT to ask for a release. He can approach either the coach (who will ultimately send him to the AD) or go directly to the AD. I believe the right (ethically) thing to do though is notify his coach before he skirts off to the ADs office.

I will also offer a bit of advice based on what I earlier said in this thread. Former coaches and scouts are great places to start for a player wanting to switch schools. However, make it CLEAR to anyone he talks with if his current coach knows his desires or not. My son had talked with a couple of folks back around easter last year. He had not told his current college coach and was actually waiting to see if a RS was going to be able to be granted. Well, in the meantime, a new coach that was interested in him and had heard through this grapevine called the current coach! A bit awkward to say the least! Also, not the way he wanted current coach to discover that he was leaving. Even if your son is very justified in finding a new fit, he needs to do things in a respectful manner.

Best of luck to him on this journey! Smile
Thanks for the welcome and the informative advice. We plan on utilizing it.

Finding this board has been a welcome relief because it lets us know that there are others in a similar situation.

We do feel extremely saddened by the sequence of events. Like most parents, one has a tendency to think highly of their sons or daughters talents especially when in the past, at every level, he has competed very well, if not excelled. We are just extremely disappointed with the process and the lack of opportunity but more than anything the lack of proper communication between the coaching staff and our son. It's very disheartening to even think that he was put in a position where he feels the need to leave because he really enjoys the company of his teammates and the very enjoyable relationships he has developed with them. He is doing well academically, better than we had thought, but his love of playing the game is being shortchanged.

He was never given a chance to prove either way his talents. We feel that at this stage of the game and with the utter lack of respect given towards him it is probably best to move on and look for better opportunities.

We always keep telling ourselves and him that there have been a lot of very gifted athletes that were never given the opportunity and have gone on to have very successful careers with a change of scenery.
There comes a time when a parent(s) needs to let go and let the athlete (male/female) do their thing---I can assure you that you do not know all the details, I have been there and done that.


What you may think are gifted athletes may not be such in the coaches eyes, regardless of the sport

MOM and DAD sit back and let go--it will be fine

example: my guy thought he had a situation where he might need to move on---did some research on his own--called me and siad I am staying I am not losing all those credits---HE DID IT ON HIS OWN before he called me


One more thing: the grass may seem greener on the other side of the fence but someone still has to mow it
Last edited by TRhit
TRHit,

Thanks for your input we appreciate your perspective and your point of view. Our viewpoint is this, life alone is to short, never mind 4 years of college. Just like in America where 1 out of 2 couples divorce sometimes separation is a good thing otherwise people have lifelong regrets. If he came to us tomorrow and said he was staying, we'd support that too.

You do sound as though you have a wealth of experience under your belt and that is again why we appreciate this forum.
Karen, you're right in that sometimes a change is for the best.

a few things to add to Lafmom's & TR's info -

yes the release comes from the AD, if the coach wants to be a stinker he can (for whatever reason) not sign off on it - the AD often tells the coach to "get over it", but may occasionally stick with him & deny a release -

here is the BIG HOWEVER & it's why they are seldom denied when push comes to shove

YOU have the right of appeal to their athletic oversight committee -


those folks are from the academic side & most feel that their mission in life to put an AD or coach in his place ... it's why so few releases are denied ...
the AD dosn't want to get his knuckles slapped & come out w/egg on his face because of some stubborn coach (a non-revenue one t'boot)

discreet inquiries can easily & legally be made by anyone but the player/family & there is also a "permission to contact form" from the Athletic office -

if the whole deal is really shot anyway - I see no good reason not to get a head start?
+ give the coach who gave you a migrain a few headaches of his own, so to speak
Last edited by Bee>
Base4,

Been there done that, as have sons of friends. It's an interesting time. Our son went to his head coach, leveled with him, and the head guy was very helpful, even calling the coaches where our son wanted to transfer, saying he appreciated hearing it first from our son, rather than the grapevine as seemed to be the norm. A friends' son tried a similar approach and got verbally blown away.

The college baseball grapevine is pretty incredible and word will get back quickly to your son's coach. I know of one situation where a "third party" approached a scout and mentioned a player was looking to move. The scout sees the boys head coach a couple days later and asked about it. Head coach knows nothing, calls the player in, and it's not pretty.

There's no easy way to do it and you pick a strategy and hope for the best. The honest direct approach worked for us, but others got blown away, although in every situation, the player was able to get transferred eventually.

Permission to speak to other schools was given on a school by school basis; there was no "blanket release" that we experienced. Transferring in conference is tough to pull off.

I hope this helps. It's a tough time but I remember my son calling me after he spoke to his head coach saying he felt the weight of the world was lifted off his shoulders.
quote:
Originally posted by hokieone:
The college baseball grapevine is pretty incredible and word will get back quickly to your son's coach. .... and it's not pretty.


Yup, same thing just happened to my son..... and he is looking to transfer for reasons mostly OTHER than baseball.

Hokieone--What about transferring within conference but a different division? Is that equally difficult?
Most coaches don't want to face a guy in a conference game that was on their roster. My son was used very sparingly and the head guy said he would do anything he could to help him, BUT he wouldn't help with an in-conference transfer; my thought was why would you care, but this seems to be a pretty consistent concern that I've heard in numerous transfer situations. Some conferences have a one year sitting out rule for in-conference transfers.

Not sure about different divisions, but I'd suspect that would be an issue.
Very interesting thread, with great posts. I'd echo hokieone that releases are made school-by-school (per NCAA website). The releases are only good for a certain length of time (30 days?) and, in addition to conference rules, there are also different rules for Div I, II and III. For example, at DIII, the student-athlete can "self-release". Although, I imagine word will likely get back to the current coach through the coach-vine.

Anyway, before a player gets to a "release point", what are some good questions players should be asking in assessing the "grass on the other side?" Clearly, they can learn from the choice they made on the first school... but what are some other unique things to look at this time around? The transfer situation IS different than the shopping you do as a HS Senior. As discussed, if you are a potential transferee, you can't talk directly with a potential new coach/team. On the other hand, you've gotten a good dose of college life under your belt... and you've at least had a glimpse of other teams/coaches in action up close.

Having personally attended several different colleges in my life, I know that just transferring can be a challenge... credit evaluations, different curriculums, different cultures, etc. Adding baseball to the mix makes it even more of a challenge.

In some other post (I forget where), it was recommended that one explore college team websites to look at rosters and stats among other things. That is somewhat helpful, I suppose. But,for what it is worth, you can get some really good information (stat-wise) from NCAA at http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/careersearch. This site carries several years of stats for all NCAA teams, all in the same format. You can even follow individual players progress from year to year... or see how many don't stay on. Stats are only a small part of the picture, but it does provide some additional insight (i.e., playing patterns, turnover, etc.)
quote:
but how do you get him to go get the release if he won't even approach his coach?
your answer can be found earlier in this topic - if he's not scared of the AD

fwiw, guy we know transfered after his soph yr - his dad handled the brunt of the required communication with the school thru the AD
Last edited by Bee>

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