BOBO
Get real---if I felt the players in out nation were poor players then why would have them on my team ?
You have one warped mind sir--your thinking keeps going back to Cuba and your belief that Fidel puts them in those boats that sail to the USA or Costa Rica or wherever---does he give them the oars as well---
What makes it worse is you are pasting at 4:23 in the morning--it has to make one wonder
Have you read the title of the topic?
It is about choosing the team of baseball players born in the years '88 and 89' to compete in international play.
The only real competition is Cuba.
Are you understanding why Cuba is mentioned?
When a program continues to defeat our national teams, common sense tells you that the players from that program are inherently better.
MLB has reacted to this apparent truism. Currently of the 7381 available slots in pro ball 3187 are foreign ball players.
If more care and concern were put into forming our national teams, home grown players would be winning the gold and the truism would be that the best players are home grown.
Players from programs such as yours would not be limited to seeking college scholarships, until the foreign born players start applying for them. (This is already taking place in other college athletics.)
Using the formula that states that .5% of high school baseball players have a shot at the pros is now cut in half to .25% with the large number of percieved 'beter ball players' from foreign nations.
It is about choosing the team of baseball players born in the years '88 and 89' to compete in international play.
The only real competition is Cuba.
Are you understanding why Cuba is mentioned?
When a program continues to defeat our national teams, common sense tells you that the players from that program are inherently better.
MLB has reacted to this apparent truism. Currently of the 7381 available slots in pro ball 3187 are foreign ball players.
If more care and concern were put into forming our national teams, home grown players would be winning the gold and the truism would be that the best players are home grown.
Players from programs such as yours would not be limited to seeking college scholarships, until the foreign born players start applying for them. (This is already taking place in other college athletics.)
Using the formula that states that .5% of high school baseball players have a shot at the pros is now cut in half to .25% with the large number of percieved 'beter ball players' from foreign nations.
Willie,
You are making things up now - to justify your own philosphy.
Noone said anything about foreign players being "inherently" better.
Talent almost always wins out - and right now a wave of talented Latin American players are hitting the scene. I see no problem with that.
And money matters too - whether you like it or not. If you own a team - and you can choose between two players you feel are equally talented and equally projectable - and one is willing to sign for $100,000 and the other wants $500,000 - guess what?
Personally - I think the enhanced competition from the Latin American players is a great thing. Maybe it will get the powers that be to eliminate the metal bat from the game.
As long as our youngsters grow up playing baseball with $300 metal rocket launchers - you can expect to see more of the same.
It is a gross distortion of the game that is hurting out players development - and lining the pockets of the manufacturers.
Smile - competition is always good.
You are making things up now - to justify your own philosphy.
Noone said anything about foreign players being "inherently" better.
Talent almost always wins out - and right now a wave of talented Latin American players are hitting the scene. I see no problem with that.
And money matters too - whether you like it or not. If you own a team - and you can choose between two players you feel are equally talented and equally projectable - and one is willing to sign for $100,000 and the other wants $500,000 - guess what?
Personally - I think the enhanced competition from the Latin American players is a great thing. Maybe it will get the powers that be to eliminate the metal bat from the game.
As long as our youngsters grow up playing baseball with $300 metal rocket launchers - you can expect to see more of the same.
It is a gross distortion of the game that is hurting out players development - and lining the pockets of the manufacturers.
Smile - competition is always good.
I haven't made up a thing.
Competition is always good. My point is that those that we sent to compete are not up to the task.
I agree with you on the aluminum bats. They are made at so many minus sizes and weights that one cannot get a true measure of talent. The elimination of the aluminum bat is a great suggestion, but I doubt the manufacturers would be willing to allow such a change.
Somebody previously stated that the foreign ball players are better than ours. Could it be that using wood bats affects their fielding ability?
The number of players who get no signing bonus far out-numbers the few who do. The statement on economics is flawed.
Foreign players come 'under contract'. They are not included in the draft.
So along with a longer practice period and larger selection sample, we can add the use of wood bats.
Competition is always good. My point is that those that we sent to compete are not up to the task.
I agree with you on the aluminum bats. They are made at so many minus sizes and weights that one cannot get a true measure of talent. The elimination of the aluminum bat is a great suggestion, but I doubt the manufacturers would be willing to allow such a change.
Somebody previously stated that the foreign ball players are better than ours. Could it be that using wood bats affects their fielding ability?
The number of players who get no signing bonus far out-numbers the few who do. The statement on economics is flawed.
Foreign players come 'under contract'. They are not included in the draft.
So along with a longer practice period and larger selection sample, we can add the use of wood bats.
Willie,
Not up to the task? - according to who?
Sounds like you didnt get one of your players on the team. LOL
As for your statement on economics - I'll remain confident in my understanding of commerce in the USA - LOL - and respectfully say that I believe you havent a clue what you are talking about.
Not up to the task? - according to who?
Sounds like you didnt get one of your players on the team. LOL
As for your statement on economics - I'll remain confident in my understanding of commerce in the USA - LOL - and respectfully say that I believe you havent a clue what you are talking about.
Not up to the task as in silver medal to Cuba's gold medal.
I have no horse in the race.
I am an American citizen who is tired of seeing little effort put into choosing our national teams in international competition.
Your statement on economics just adds validity to my point. You seem to be unaware that many home grown players are in the minors at base rate. Foreign players are already under contract for whatever amount they managed to sign for.
It seems one of us is without a clear vision of reality. My statements are easily verifiable.
I have no horse in the race.
I am an American citizen who is tired of seeing little effort put into choosing our national teams in international competition.
Your statement on economics just adds validity to my point. You seem to be unaware that many home grown players are in the minors at base rate. Foreign players are already under contract for whatever amount they managed to sign for.
It seems one of us is without a clear vision of reality. My statements are easily verifiable.
Willie,
You can redirect the discussion all you want - and talk about all the kids who didnt get any money for signing.
The fact is - at similar talent levels - foreign born players cost less than domestic players.
If you dont know that - you havent been paying any attention at all.
As for the national teams - seems to me they pick some pretty good players every year.
I guess you would only be happy if Team USA won every game ever played. LOL
You can redirect the discussion all you want - and talk about all the kids who didnt get any money for signing.
The fact is - at similar talent levels - foreign born players cost less than domestic players.
If you dont know that - you havent been paying any attention at all.
As for the national teams - seems to me they pick some pretty good players every year.
I guess you would only be happy if Team USA won every game ever played. LOL
Your laughter is a sad comentary on your understanding of the true economics of the game.
Do you honestly think that it is cheaper to import a player than using one that is locally available? Money is being poured into the development of these players and programs by the MLB and more is being taken from the domestic system to expand these baseball mills.
Further and most important, the USA team should never lose to these countries that have such smaller populations.
I guess you will still be laughing when there are fewer home grown players in the MLB than foreign players.
Do you honestly think that it is cheaper to import a player than using one that is locally available? Money is being poured into the development of these players and programs by the MLB and more is being taken from the domestic system to expand these baseball mills.
Further and most important, the USA team should never lose to these countries that have such smaller populations.
I guess you will still be laughing when there are fewer home grown players in the MLB than foreign players.
quote:Originally posted by WillieBobo:
Your laughter is a sad comentary on your understanding of the true economics of the game.
You have damaged my confidence in my understanding of the financial aspects of the game. LOL
Do you honestly think that it is cheaper to import a player than using one that is locally available?
Yes - I do. If it didnt make economic sense - the owners wouldnt be doing it.
Money is being poured into the development of these players and programs by the MLB and more is being taken from the domestic system to expand these baseball mills.
Is that so? You mean - there is a limited amount of capital for this in our economic system? LOL - That is a new one on me.
Further and most important, the USA team should never lose to these countries that have such smaller populations.
Ridiculous statement.IMO
I guess you will still be laughing when there are fewer home grown players in the MLB than foreign players.
Probably - yes. I laugh alot.
You are not seeing the point of athletic scholarships. At present, foreign college students are in our universities under scholarship playing various sports.
Each imported athlete eliminates the possibility of a home grown student athlete from benefitting from that same scholarship.
There are students in this nation who may not gain the benefit of a college education without the benefit of an athletic scholarship.
Each imported athlete eliminates the possibility of a home grown student athlete from benefitting from that same scholarship.
There are students in this nation who may not gain the benefit of a college education without the benefit of an athletic scholarship.
With all that laughing, home grown MLB players will be going the way of complex ball.
Willie,
In Baseball?
Really?
I am going to take a peek at a couple hundred college rosters and see how many imported players there are.
Wait - thats alot of work.
How 'bout we just round it off and say .000001% LOL
In Baseball?
Really?
I am going to take a peek at a couple hundred college rosters and see how many imported players there are.
Wait - thats alot of work.
How 'bout we just round it off and say .000001% LOL
quote:Originally posted by WillieBobo:
With all that laughing, home grown MLB players will be going the way of complex ball.
Yeah - but I will die happy.
Smile baby - its all good.
wayback - your ticket prices are not being raised because some teams are spending chicken feed south of the border.
They are being raised because you have .220 hitters signing $20 million guaranteed contracts.
They are being raised because you have .220 hitters signing $20 million guaranteed contracts.
I know the feeling - The last 4 years - I think the NY Mets paid about $10,000 per hit per player each season.
Thank God it is a good year for my Metsies.
LOL
Thank God it is a good year for my Metsies.
LOL
WillieBoBo... you have been brainwashed... by who, i do not know... but I will find out... maybe you need to hire the A-Team....
Not brainwashed at all.
Enlightened is more like it.
Previous to the USA Baseball web site on the internet, I had no idea that an organization existed whose sole purpose was to select and prepare young baseball players to represent this nation in international competition.
I had no idea that these games took place annually and that the USA teams were performing so poorly.
Upon further study, I came to see the short-comings of the selection process.
It appears that you may be the one brainwashed into believing that the USA teams should not be dominating international competition.
Enlightened is more like it.
Previous to the USA Baseball web site on the internet, I had no idea that an organization existed whose sole purpose was to select and prepare young baseball players to represent this nation in international competition.
I had no idea that these games took place annually and that the USA teams were performing so poorly.
Upon further study, I came to see the short-comings of the selection process.
It appears that you may be the one brainwashed into believing that the USA teams should not be dominating international competition.
Willie, the USA Baseball selection process ins't the conspiracy you seem to think it is.
I know several of the players from last year's Jr. National team, and they ARE some of the best teenaged players in the country. They also tell me that their teammates last year were incredibly talented, and if you look at the MLB draft and D-1 signings, their observations are born out. The USA Jr. team only lost 1 game last year, it happened to be the championship game vs. Cuba. They beat Cuba earlier in the tournament, but lost the final in a 1-run game. Stuff happens, that's why they play the game, isn't it?
Between the Youth and Jr. National teams, I know a pretty good handful of the players, the ones from Northern CA, who've played in the Tournament of Stars or were invited to the YNT trials over the last few years. A few were selected for the National teams, most were not. They're all EXCELLENT players, among the best in the country, including the ones sent home after the trials. Those who make it onto the National teams are among the finest amateur players in this country, without any doubt whatsoever. Some equally outstanding players are sent home, but that doesn't mean they aren't the best, they're just not what the people of USA Baseball think will give them the very best opportunity that summer. USA Baseball's staff does an outstanding job, in my opinion, of selecting the players to invite to the trials and ultimately, those they select for the teams.
There are players USA Baseball would like to have attend the trials, but who can't play in the games due to college commitments this fall, so they don't even get invited to the TOS. Stuff like this happens, but the public doesn't hear about it, and that might contribute to your suspicion about who or how they make their selection decisions. I know two players who would have loved to participate in the TOS this summer, and whom USA Baseball was prepared to invite, but their colleges weren't going to let them play in the games in September, so USA Baseball had to pass them over, looking for players who can actually play if selected.
No conspiracy, just lots of tough decisions.
I know several of the players from last year's Jr. National team, and they ARE some of the best teenaged players in the country. They also tell me that their teammates last year were incredibly talented, and if you look at the MLB draft and D-1 signings, their observations are born out. The USA Jr. team only lost 1 game last year, it happened to be the championship game vs. Cuba. They beat Cuba earlier in the tournament, but lost the final in a 1-run game. Stuff happens, that's why they play the game, isn't it?
Between the Youth and Jr. National teams, I know a pretty good handful of the players, the ones from Northern CA, who've played in the Tournament of Stars or were invited to the YNT trials over the last few years. A few were selected for the National teams, most were not. They're all EXCELLENT players, among the best in the country, including the ones sent home after the trials. Those who make it onto the National teams are among the finest amateur players in this country, without any doubt whatsoever. Some equally outstanding players are sent home, but that doesn't mean they aren't the best, they're just not what the people of USA Baseball think will give them the very best opportunity that summer. USA Baseball's staff does an outstanding job, in my opinion, of selecting the players to invite to the trials and ultimately, those they select for the teams.
There are players USA Baseball would like to have attend the trials, but who can't play in the games due to college commitments this fall, so they don't even get invited to the TOS. Stuff like this happens, but the public doesn't hear about it, and that might contribute to your suspicion about who or how they make their selection decisions. I know two players who would have loved to participate in the TOS this summer, and whom USA Baseball was prepared to invite, but their colleges weren't going to let them play in the games in September, so USA Baseball had to pass them over, looking for players who can actually play if selected.
No conspiracy, just lots of tough decisions.
06,
You seem to have good knowledge of that prestigious team.
May I ask why this fella wasnt invited?
http://www.monkeymatters.com/trellix/rally_monkey.htm
He can hit - throw - and run (and jump) like the dickens!
You seem to have good knowledge of that prestigious team.
May I ask why this fella wasnt invited?
http://www.monkeymatters.com/trellix/rally_monkey.htm
He can hit - throw - and run (and jump) like the dickens!
I never stated that it was a conspiracy.
I have stated plainly that it is ineffective in assembling teams that will dominate in international play.
I have never denigrated the players.
My points have been that enough time and effort is not being used by an organization whose sole purpose to exist is in forming teams capable of not just competing in international play, but in dominating in international play.
Dominating is not five golds in twenty one years. It is not losing five out of six to Cuba in the last six years either.
If you consider the comparative populations and economic circumstances between the US and Cuba, we should never be losing to them.
We have been losing and we should demand better as a nation of our national teams.
The current group of 'the best that we have' have so far committed 69 errors and counting in 17 games. I shudder to think that we do not have better than this to represent this great nation.
I have stated plainly that it is ineffective in assembling teams that will dominate in international play.
I have never denigrated the players.
My points have been that enough time and effort is not being used by an organization whose sole purpose to exist is in forming teams capable of not just competing in international play, but in dominating in international play.
Dominating is not five golds in twenty one years. It is not losing five out of six to Cuba in the last six years either.
If you consider the comparative populations and economic circumstances between the US and Cuba, we should never be losing to them.
We have been losing and we should demand better as a nation of our national teams.
The current group of 'the best that we have' have so far committed 69 errors and counting in 17 games. I shudder to think that we do not have better than this to represent this great nation.
Mr. Bobo,
I have offered the first step in correcting this problem you believe exists.
Take the monkey. Give him a chance.
I have offered the first step in correcting this problem you believe exists.
Take the monkey. Give him a chance.
I have agreed.
I concur that the monkey would do as well or better.
I concur that the monkey would do as well or better.
quote:The current group of 'the best that we have' have so far committed 69 errors and counting in 17 games. I shudder to think that we do not have better than this to represent this great nation.
Willie,
Everyone in Joplin will not be representing the USA. Your observation would make a little more sense if those 69 errors were committed by the 18 players that end up making the team.
I will agree that there should be more than one tournament to select the team. There are a lot of players capable of making the team who for one reason or another do not or can not attend in Joplin.
Whether the USA dominates or doesn't... It's still a great thing. The USA alumni list is very impressive!
quote:Originally posted by WillieBobo:
I have agreed.
I concur that the monkey would do as well or better.
Dear Mr. Bobo,
On behalf of the monkey - I thank you.
quote:I have never denigrated the players.
quote:I concur that the monkey would do as well or better.
Which is it Willie?
My observation is that of all the baseball players born in the years 1988 and 1989, this group has been chosen through whatever process as the best 136 in the nation.
Aparently eight players did not accept the invitation. Ironically no time or thought was apparently given for a list of alternates to fill the 144.
Every player present in Joplin is a potential representative of the nation in international play.
Make that 70 errors in 17 games and counting.
Every and any combination of these players should be the best that this nation has to offer.
Aparently eight players did not accept the invitation. Ironically no time or thought was apparently given for a list of alternates to fill the 144.
Every player present in Joplin is a potential representative of the nation in international play.
Make that 70 errors in 17 games and counting.
Every and any combination of these players should be the best that this nation has to offer.
The players denigrate themselves. I just make the observation.
The monkey has interchangeably been recommended as the selection committee as well as the poor defense.
The monkey has interchangeably been recommended as the selection committee as well as the poor defense.
As LBJ said many years ago,
"The Monkey shall not seek, and will not accept, the nomination of any party for a term as a selection committee representative".
"The Monkey shall not seek, and will not accept, the nomination of any party for a term as a selection committee representative".
DODO
Sorry I meant BOBO
Sit back and observe and the shut up--you do not know squat about the situations other than your son didnt cut it--it is time to let it go--my kid didnt make it either but I am not crying about it--he got on with his life and do did I--I think you might want to think about getting on with yours
Sorry I meant BOBO
Sit back and observe and the shut up--you do not know squat about the situations other than your son didnt cut it--it is time to let it go--my kid didnt make it either but I am not crying about it--he got on with his life and do did I--I think you might want to think about getting on with yours
You're hysterical in your wrong assumptions.
Why not just address the issue that this selected crop of talent made 70 errors in 17 games?
I believe they are working out in Ft Lauderdale this year. Have them test their skills against such teams as the Renegades, Scorpions, Pokers and Bombers.
Why not just address the issue that this selected crop of talent made 70 errors in 17 games?
I believe they are working out in Ft Lauderdale this year. Have them test their skills against such teams as the Renegades, Scorpions, Pokers and Bombers.
Willie, if the only thing that mattered in international competition was the caliber of the team, the USA wouldn't have lost a single game in the World Baseball Classic. I think everyone thought we had a Dream Team compiled and we all (or at least most of us) remember what happened there. Are you suggesting that USA Baseball didn't select a good enough team that time either?
My point, if you'll consider it, is that much more goes into success on the international stage than just having the best players possible. All of the players are very, very good. Getting them to play as a team might be the more difficult thing to accomplish. Perhaps having the players together for a few extra weeks of games would be better than the short time they're together before international play. In our society today, there are many challenges that make this very difficult to accomplish. Also, I'll again remind you that the Jr. National Team lost one game last September, it just happened to be the wrong game to lose.
I don't think you can fault the talent, at any level. The preparation process might be another story, but that is also a complicated situation with many challenges that some other countries probably don't have to deal with.
My point, if you'll consider it, is that much more goes into success on the international stage than just having the best players possible. All of the players are very, very good. Getting them to play as a team might be the more difficult thing to accomplish. Perhaps having the players together for a few extra weeks of games would be better than the short time they're together before international play. In our society today, there are many challenges that make this very difficult to accomplish. Also, I'll again remind you that the Jr. National Team lost one game last September, it just happened to be the wrong game to lose.
I don't think you can fault the talent, at any level. The preparation process might be another story, but that is also a complicated situation with many challenges that some other countries probably don't have to deal with.
The World Baseball Classic made my point glaringly obvious.
Once the foreign talent left to play for their home teams, the USA team was left scrambling for players.
Many of the big USA stars couldn't be bothered representing their country, while the foreign players were filled with pride for the opportunity.
If the trend holds true, the MLB will be comprised of mostly foreign players in the years to come.
Once the foreign talent left to play for their home teams, the USA team was left scrambling for players.
Many of the big USA stars couldn't be bothered representing their country, while the foreign players were filled with pride for the opportunity.
If the trend holds true, the MLB will be comprised of mostly foreign players in the years to come.