Velocity

Three things...
1) I think that the coach is right about your son and that your son's arm will get stronger as he gets older. 80's when you are a freshmen and below is good, so do not worry too much about that.

2) When he is weight lifting make sure that when he bench presses it is with dumbbells not the bar. I know this does not sound like a big deal, but it will really loosen up the arm.

3) It is also the winter so his velocity will probably increase when it gets warmer and as he gets in season and is throwing and long tossing everyday or so.

What type of long toss program? Do they throw on a line or on an arc? You might want to research underweight balls to see if you consider that a viable option.

Also might want to really check out the weight training program. You don't want to be building up muscles like pectorals, which can restrict range of motion.

My two cents- Want to throw harder? Simple- practice throwing harder. In bullpens, as they get warmed up on the upslope (before they get too warm) work with him on throwing a few pitches "hard"- each one a little harder than the last. As they force their minds and muscles to push a little harder velocity will increase unless something drastically is wrong mechanically.

80-81 mph for your son is good for his age regardless of his height. My 14 year old eighth grader (5'10", 180 lbs)was clocked at a winter camp at 72 mph. Last fall he was clocked the same. No worries though- that is how it is every year up to this point.

I agree partially with your son, the lifting makes him tight. Does it affect his pitching I dont know, but in general lifting will make you tight. Big muscles in the Pros of all sports arent natural. Look at players in the 80's. They knew about weight lifting then, but they didnt do it for a reason. Now Pros get big without weights so they dont get tight.

Technique > Muscles

Having said that, I don't think weight training will hurt. Maybe if you look like Arnold in the old days.

Have your son focus on rotational exercises (hip and core) as well as some stability core work. Have him cut back a little on the upperbody and ramp up the legs a little more.

I wish I would have learned earlier in my career how important it is to do light dumbbells and band for the back, scaps, shoulders, etc. He should be able to get a good enough upper body workout with some light dumbbells and bands. Maybe some extra light dumbbell bench (one arm at a time) and light biceps and triceps. The rest of the focus should be on the back and shoulders.

I also think stretching is very important. I do believe that you can be too tight to pitch. It happened to me my Junior year of high school. My velocity dropped from 87-89 down to 80-82. Once I cooled off on the upper body lifting and started stretching, my velocity went right back up.

I hope this helped. Your son sounds like a hard worker. Please tell him I said hello and good luck!

Many thanks to everyone who has posted here. We've decided to not eliminate, but cut back on the lifting, start usingdumbells instead off flat bench and committ to stretching more. We'll see where he's at later in the year in the summer PG events that track the pitcher's speeds...

Great Questions! Velocity doesn't necessarily come with size. Yes it's nice to have power pitchers like Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens but really big pitchers like that are few. What about smaller pitchers that can hurl high 90's we are seeing more and more of that.
Velocity comes with a long aggressive stride ensuring all of your momentum is going where it is supposed to go, straight toward home plate. How long is his stride? A stride should be at least 100% of his height. After a great stride, proper hip rotation is critical. I would also get him into a pitching specific workout routine, one that includes a lot of core strength training as well.
Good luck!

I will agree that building core strength is critical to increasing velocity. Not oly that, core strength will increase the longevity of outings which in turn allows the arm to be less stressed and fatigued.

I am going to disagree on stride length at 100% or over body heigth being critical to velocity. My sons velocity actually decreases as he strides too far from his normal stride length which is roughly 80% of his height. Everyone isn't a Lincecum and everyone needs to find a stride length they are comfortable with. No study I am aware of equates stride specifics with velocity- whether there is a gain in velocity with an increase in stride length.

Too small of a stride may hurt velocity and perhaps also lead to bad mechanics and hurt arms, but that doesn't mean that the bigger the stride the better the velocity and/or mechanics.

It's really impossible to say without knowing or having ever seen your son.

Some kids do hit puberty early and peak early. Others have periods when they "stall" and then they jump again later. We have no way of knowing if your son falls into one of these categories, or neither of them.

Pitchers can and should lift, but their program is very different from what offensive players use, or from what would be appropriate for football. It is indeed possible to lose MPH from the wrong program. You need to consult a trainer who knows the difference and who can set your son straight on what he should, and should not, be doing.

The other thing is mechanics. It's highly unlikely your son throws exactly the same way he did two years ago. He doesn't necessarily need to go back, nor do you need film of how he used to be. You just need to have his mechanics reviewed by someone knowledgeable whom you trust to see if some fine tuning is in order.

All that being said, we also have to accept that each of us will have our own ceiling. Many kids never reach 81, much less surpass that speed. There is no way of knowing if your son will ever get faster, at least not from where I sit. The above are just things to check on to see if improvement is still in the cards.

Thanks for everyones comments and suggestions on this. Unfortunately my son isn't going to be able to do to much to work on his velocity for a while. Ten days ago (and the night before he was going to be the opening day starter for JV) he hurt his knee playing basketball. After a few days he went to an Orthopedist and he had an MRI. It came back diagnosed as a ruptured ACL with meniscus damage. Surgery is scheduled for Monday April 12th. Playing multiple sports finally caught up with him. He'll obviously miss his freshman baseball season, summer STL Pirates schedule and probably football season...Hopefully he'll be able to come back as good as new next year...

That darn Basketball does it everytime! Hope he is able to get on the mound sooner than later. I wish him the best!

Thanks for the note. Surgery was completed on April 9th and after a pretty rough week he's back in school today. Slowly getting around on his crutches and probably another week or so from weight bearing...I wouldn't wish this on anyone let alone a high school athlete...

quote:

Originally posted by johnj314:
Thanks for the note. Surgery was completed on April 9th and after a pretty rough week he's back in school today. Slowly getting around on his crutches and probably another week or so from weight bearing...I wouldn't wish this on anyone let alone a high school athlete...

Johnj314 I'm sorry to hear about your son rupturing his ACL but glad that the surgery is over. Let me just say that your son needs to follow the rehab very strictly in order to make it back quickly. I had a senior several years ago who tore his ACL right at the end of football and he did the rehab religiously. He was back by the start of baseball. There was another kid at our rival who had the same thing but didn't do the rehab according to his coach. He was a pale imitation of that he was / could be.

Stay on the timetable they establish and if you push it just make sure you push it a little and not a lot.

Best of luck in the rehab and keep us posted as to how he progresses.

hello, im new to this website and i have a 12 year old kid that has been clocked at 76 in games and 78-81 in pitching practice..i bet none of ya'll will believe that, but i just need some tips on how to increase verlocity. He is 5'7 and weighs about 128

rocketdad,
He's one of the hardest throwing kids in the nation for his age, possibly the hardest throwing, and you want tips on how to increase velocity? I'm not sure Robert Stock even hit 81 mph at 12yo.

quote:

Originally posted by rocketdad10:
hello, im new to this website and i have a 12 year old kid that has been clocked at 76 in games and 78-81 in pitching practice..i bet none of ya'll will believe that, but i just need some tips on how to increase verlocity. He is 5'7 and weighs about 128

Really? Why? Here's my advice- Do not screw this kid up! Let him be a kid. Don't let anybody over-pitch him. Let nature take its course. I knew a local kid about 20 years ago who threw 80 when he was 12. Pitched against Taiwan in the LLWS. The kid burned out about two years later. Don't have him be that kid.

I didn't mean to say increase velocity, I would like to know some good drills to strengthen his arm...I should say. I'm surprised that ya'll beleived that he throws that hard. No body will beleive me until they see it on a gun.

He plays 12u, but I'm trying to make a devision if I should move him up to 13u

rocket, I would have him on a 12U LL team this year Then move him to 14U travel.

he plays on a nationally ranked 12u team in texas though. we've talked about little league but 46 ft is not the same as 50ft(in 12u)

I'm just excited to see what happens in 14u ball and freshman ball in 2 years.

post a video I would enjoy seeing this kid throw gas

I had a 12 year old that was 74-76 from 50'. It was straight GAS. He was dominant. He was low 80's when he graduated from hs and walked on at a D1 and later walked away from the game. He never did have any arm issues he simply peeked early and never really made any jumps in velo.

I had a 12 year old on that same team that never pitched because he simply didnt have the arm. He is now in the Majors and in the starting rotation.

I hope your son continues to improve and makes steady jumps in velo and stays healthy. Just remember its not where you start its where you finish that matters.

rocketdad,

I would most definately move him up a division or two if he is throwing that hard. 75-80 mph from 45-50 feet is unhitable! Its actually a diservice to your son to hold him back- he needs to play at a level where he has to compete, not destroy.

I remeber the last year my son was in city league Bronco as a 12 year old. He only allowed two hits all year long, had a 0.00 era and pretty much destroyed every kids confidence in the game at that level. He was throwing gas that last year and it was just a waste of time really. The lesson I learned as both Dad and coach was that it is not good to put players in a position where they no longer have to compete. There is always a better league where they actually have to work hard to win and at times will get beat no matter what magic tricks they have in their hat.

I wish I had a buck for every dad who thought their kid threw 81 when it was actually 75. I could invest in a radar gun that actually works. But let's take it at face value the kid throws hard, regardless of the actual number. So what? He's 12. Will he throw hard at 17? 19?

Bum, Jr. threw 59 at age 12.

Yep!

Kid from our area who was in LLWS threw 74 at 12yo and tops out at 86 now as a HS senior. Good pitcher though who will be going to a lower level D1 and will probably do well there. Another kid from the district could go as early as the 2nd or 3rd round. Another kid who only got a couple innings in the district tournament for our team (we were saving him for the next game but the "early" rounder beat us) is working 88-90 and committed to a fairly strong D1. CASon threw about 66 tops back then and tops out at 88 now. No way to tell how they're going to turn out at that age but that was a pretty strong district for pitching that year.

My friends son was the most dominant 10 YO you ever saw. Unfortunately he peaked at 11.

quote:

Originally posted by rocketdad10:
hello, im new to this website and i have a 12 year old kid that has been clocked at 76 in games and 78-81 in pitching practice..i bet none of ya'll will believe that, but i just need some tips on how to increase verlocity. He is 5'7 and weighs about 128

That is quite impressive velocity. Almost unbelievable...

You're son is also pretty big for a 12 YO. Not knowing how physically mature he is for his age will determine a lot of how much more velocity he will gain. So you will have to wait and see if he can develop further.

As others have said different kids develop at different rates (my own son probably threw 50 back then lol ). I would make sure to really watch how much he is used, and also make sure you/he is doing everything he can as far as arm care, arm conditioning, overall conditioning, and mechanical efficiency.

From now until he reaches college age.

Good luck.

Anyone that watches LLWS knows that some 12yo can reach 80.

I have seen 77 and 79 (not mine) on 2 different 12 yo. There was quite a crowd around the guns. They are fun to watch.

I agree. Don't overuse the arm. Many coaches will try to use him to win 12/13/14/15 yo games. Save the arm for HS and beyond.

quote:

So you will have to wait and see if he can develop further.

Mine is twenty-one and I'm still waiting on that development.

Ref: "rocketdad10"

I hope after reading this, you will all find the humor in the fact a 12yr old has alot of maturing to do both on and off the field.

After reading "rocketdad10"'s posts, it took me about 30min. to connect the dots. Rocket, was my 12 yr. old son on a fishing expedition. Little did he realize the fish he would catch would be a shark "Dad" and would bite back.

His mother and I realize he has a long journey ahead of him and we emphasize that his priorities should be God, family, academics and then sports. After all, it's only 12u ball.

I have been coming to this website for about 3yrs. and always respect if not enjoy the insight, experiences and debates on this forum. My wife has also been introduced to the site by me so she to could appreciate the journey that lies ahead, if we are that fortunate. Two nights ago, I made my son sit and read the "Pro vs College" thread to show him there is no gurantees and the road is long and hard. We try to instill in our son that he has only taken a few steps in a marathon. That's when, unknown to us, he decided to create an account. 12 year old!

I have been and will always be reluctant to come on here and post my son's baseball abilities or accomplishments because at this point it means little. He just needs to enjoy the game and learn to respect it. Again, it's 12u ball.

Although what he said about his ability is factual, it did not paint "Dad", or for that matter, both parents in a good light. He will pay those consequences. He has had a very strong arm from an early age. For that reason, we have always sought advice to establish the best mechanics we could. He still has alot of room to grow both physically and mentally. We, as parents, feel it is our responsabilty to put a protective system in place to make sure he has the opportunity, God willing, to see his dreams. I must give him credit, he works very hard on these things.

The knowledge we have and will receive from this site has been invaluable! I respect and admire those who have made this journey before us or will make with us. For that, I thank you all.

If this has offended anyone, I apologize.

"go hard-throw hard" I had to laugh.

Thank you,
AG19Dad

Welcome and I enjoyed that post. I hope you stick around and join in as you see fit. I hope your son continues to enjoy the game and realizes all of his dreams.

I haven't read the thread or any of the comments but the answer is "90"!

quote:

Originally posted by Ag19Dad:
Ref: "rocketdad10"

I hope after reading this, you will all find the humor in the fact a 12yr old has alot of maturing to do both on and off the field.

After reading "rocketdad10"'s posts, it took me about 30min. to connect the dots. Rocket, was my 12 yr. old son on a fishing expedition. Little did he realize the fish he would catch would be a shark "Dad" and would bite back.

Now that's Funny, I do find the humor in it! Welcome Ag19Dad, you have a very smart 12 year old son! I hope that your son can continue his climb up the ladder as he grows both physically and mentally over the next few years. My son (now a junior in HS) played with some studs over the years in Travel Ball; one young man that received a ton of National recognition doesn't even pitch anymore...you just never know?

Keep us updated on your son's progress as he approaches high school, and I love the saying that Coach gave you, "it's not where you start, but where you finish that matters!"

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
I had a 12 year old that was 74-76 from 50'. It was straight GAS. He was dominant. He was low 80's when he graduated from hs and walked on at a D1 and later walked away from the game. He never did have any arm issues he simply peeked early and never really made any jumps in velo.

I had a 12 year old on that same team that never pitched because he simply didnt have the arm. He is now in the Majors and in the starting rotation.

I hope your son continues to improve and makes steady jumps in velo and stays healthy. Just remember its not where you start its where you finish that matters.

What a great story, Coach May.

IMO there is no key to velocity. People try and look at all of these gadgets, weighted balls, ect.. for velocity. Your genetics will only allow you to throw so hard. The key to velocity.... Sound Fundamental Mechanics..