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Very Basic Hitting Technique

N ncball100+ posts
itsinthegame- Richard is not so anonymous. He is a legend in his own mind. He says "we are waiting" for my response. The fact is that "he" is waiting. The only reason I replied was because I couldn't take this guy ripping people and players anymore for his self edification.

I apologize to those who I offended for getting side-tracked by this cyber-legend. I will not respond to his replies anymore as they take up time that I could be using to actually be productive. He should follow suit but he won't. That's too bad.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
NCball,

I am an experienced "Chameleon" watcher and frequent target of this legendary cyber guru. LOL - Many many years.

It took me awhile - but I learned to just have fun with it.

As with the ids he uses - he cant stick with any one thing for too long. LOL

What was up is now down - what was in is now out - what was round is now square.

Basically - just a cyber guy getting his mojo on and hacking people in the cyber world.

And clueless as to the actual game itself - and what it takes to play it successfully. IMO.
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon:


Be sure the thank the moderator.

Don't forget that you also can't analyze the Howard/Ankiel clip.


Thank the Moderator? A simple request and then a more stern request are attempts to keep this a hitting discussion board and not a flaming board. Guess I'm doing my job. Thanks!

FYI, and since you want to always mentioned to me that I'm missing out, a favor back to you. You're missing some very interesting threads on another site which would include "Understanding Rotation in 3D," some video of some new young hitters for evaluation, a very good thread called "Starting Point," some great readings comparing recent research of the phisology of the body in relation to athletic performance and then that compared to Dixon et.al, A knockout thread on the swing and "Cause and Effect" which has to have at least 5 studies cited and compared and tremendous contributions from many long time posters (Not me since I'm not smart enough to join in in that one.),...

I went back and read your entire posting archive the other night. There was some good stuff there. Perhaps that is why the membership is now 900 and rising. Take care!
Last edited by CoachB25
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon:


Be sure the thank the moderator.

Don't forget that you also can't analyze the Howard/Ankiel clip.


Thank the Moderator? A simple request and then a more stern request are attempts to keep this a hitting discussion board and not a flaming board. Guess I'm doing my job. Thanks!

FYI, and since you want to always mentioned to me that I'm missing out, a favor back to you. You're missing some very interesting threads on another site which would include "Understanding Rotation in 3D," some video of some new young hitters for evaluation, a very good thread called "Starting Point," some great readings comparing recent research of the phisology of the body in relation to athletic performance and then that compared to Dixon et.al, A knockout thread on the swing and "Cause and Effect" which has to have at least 5 studies cited and compared and tremendous contributions from many long time posters (Not me since I'm not smart enough to join in in that one.),...

I went back and read your entire posting archive the other night. There was some good stuff there. Perhaps that is why the membership is now 900 and rising. Take care!




Coach,

Don't leave us hanging! What's the other site?
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa:
It is my point to those who said he would bat 200 in today's game. It was estimated he would be over 850 homeruns in today's smaller parks.




Papa,

I was not trying to ridicule Aaron when I said what I said. His mechanics worked pretty well for him in his day. I just believe he would struggle with those mechanics in this era. As I said in earlier posts, I think he was a great all around ballplayer and probably would have adjusted his swing. Who knows? I also stated that I meant in the .200s not .300s. He was a lifetime .305 hitter, but only hit .285 in his last 12 seasons, so I believe he was already struggling in that time, either way .305 to .285 isn't that much of a stretch. Who knows for sure? It was just my opinion. Even if he would be able to make it work, I wouldn't think those mechanics would be what you'd teach to a young hitter and that was my original point.
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by ncball:
micmeister- I believe that great players from any era would be great players. The best ones adapt to what they need to do to be successful. My thought is that Aaron would change his mechanics to something much closer to the best guys now. Do you know that he started hitting cross-handed?




I agree! They did what they had to do to be in the elite class of their time as do players of today. It is the mind set and work ethic that separates the professional from all the rest in any sport, not their God given talents, IMO. Yes, I knew that he started cross-handed and he actually did very well with it.
M micmeister500+ posts
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlueDog:
Papa, alot can be learned from Aaron's swing.....



Yep, and if he would have eliminated the drastic back to front head slide, he probably would have ended up a .340 hitter instead of a .305 hitter. Talk about natural athletic ability. He sure had it! Probably could have been a pro at just about any sport he would have put his mind to doing.
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon:
Trust me.

There is not one post that I care to read on any site that doesn't believe in handle torque at "go".

Neither should you.

And, since we're local, I could prove it to you in 5 minutes or less.

But only if you are truly a truth seeker.

Which is in question.

I'll do the driving.


Richard, I appreciate the offer. However, Truth? The truth is what we all perceive it to be. BTW, I've never stated that I was looking for anything. In fact, I’ve stated that while I won’t try to force my beliefs on anyone else, I’m very happy and have had a lot of success doing what we are presently doing. In fact, not only my players but our feeder program (3 seperate teams that hit with me all last winter) and my daughter’s softball team all have used this philosophy with great success. Our feeder program and my daughter’s softball team all won 35+ games this year doing our hitting program. My high school team has 200+ wins in 9 years since I came to my present school. What we're doing is working well. I also believe that I’ve been consistent in limiting my discussions on what I believe in concerning hitting since I care to do that discussion on a site where like people participate and can enlighten me as to how to better understand that philosophy. Since you are a former member of that site, you know that such discussions are supposed to be "in house and can reference a quote to such I believe you made. A site to which you once were a major contributor citing the following contributions:
.

“…wouldn't call this the typical arm swinger. Do I see a "former" arm swinger that has been enlightened? And, maybe one who is on the right track but not efficient yet?” Quoted August 20, 2006 along with a list of drills you suggested to enable this hitter to stay connected better to stop disconnections and the use of the hands.

“And, from my experience, the above would have taken at least 2 years off *******'s learning curve.” Quoted August 20, 2006 in another thread in the context of how much better PCR has made your son and how much faster he could have improved had he learned it sooner.

“The overriding premise, IMHO, is you need to swing from your center and the bat must be perpendicular to the spine. That is the underlying movement necessary to swing. That is the ultimate goal........to be able to do that as efficiently as possible so as to be able to "get the **** bat around" on time, and then repeat it.” Quoted August 19, 2006 prior to an extensive list on what a person needs to do to be more efficient in the swing. Again, all related to you being enamored by PCR.

“That bat is being directed by the body, not the hands. The hand is swiveling as a result, not a cause.” So you stated in a thread on August 18, 2006.

(Quotes used w/permission from a private web-site archive. Note, I could also link some demonstrations you put up.)

Truth is what you want to make it. Much the same with how you, or anyone including myself, interpret video. Once you believed all that I do. You say you've found something better. I hope that you use that to help your son. I truly do. As per me and mine, we're doing just fine with what we're doing.
Last edited by CoachB25
ChameleonChameleon100+ posts
As for all the quotes, maybe you missed it.

I was wrong. I've said I was wrong.

Now, when will N y m a n, Greg Stock, Englishbey, Fungo, MarkH, ssarge, yourself, etc etc etc (sorry if I forgot you who would love to be included)

The video proves it. The PCR and PCRW bat path is not mlb quality.

Some and their posses just can't seem to come to grips with it.

Fess up. I did immediately.

So, we're not getting together?

I detect apprehension. You will be put in a precarious position. You will have to chose between fact and fiction.

Will you demonstrate a search for the truth?
Last edited by Chameleon
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon:
As for all the quotes, maybe you missed it.

I was wrong. I've said I was wrong.

Now, when will N y m a n, Greg Stock, Englishbey, Fungo, MarkH, ssarge, yourself, etc etc etc (sorry if I forgot you who would love to be included)

The video proves it. The PCR and PCRW bat path is not mlb quality.

Some and their posses just can't seem to come to grips with it.

Fess up. I did immediately.

So, we're not getting together?

I detect apprehension. You will be put in a precarious position. You will have to chose between fact and fiction.

Will you demonstrate a search for the truth?




Chameleon,

I believe you are right about MLB hitters and handle torque. My question is, who taught them??? I have had dealings with a couple of MLB hitting coaches in the past and my son even took lessons from one as part of a deal to play on a travel team, but none of them ever taught handle torque. Why is that? In fact, the one instructor that taught my son didn't teach anything that made much sense to me or my son other than situational hitting. He was a hands teacher only, nothing about core, legs, hips, except to bring your feet to shoulder width apart (something I strongly disagree with). I have always believed in flat hands at contact and using the elbow tuck to reach that position. I have practiced using my top hand to pull the barrel rearward as my hands go forward and it is quicker. I'm not sure you HAVE to do it to hit MLB pitching as Ankeil has somewhat shown, but I can see where it would improve your chances of being consistent.
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon:
quote:
However, Truth? The truth is what we all perceive it to be


No real reason to read any futher. This summarizes PCR and PCRW. The truth is what they tell you.....and you better listen....regardless of the evidence.

lol

But, I will read. I do enjoy comedy.


NO you fail to percieve the truth. What we're doing has worked VERY SUCCESSFULLY! You seem to miss that point time and time again. Why would I change something that is PROVEN? You had a bad experience? I can think of several reasons why. You fail to realize that there is a reason people are NOT FLOCKING to your website nor are they buying into your philosophy. Yet, you continue to say you know more. EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHEN YOU RIDICULED ALL OF THOSE THAT DIDN'T AGREE WITH YOU ONE YEAR AGO WHEN THOSE QUOTES YOU MADE WERE PRESENTED BY YOU. Now you suggest that I'm the one that is in error. I'll stick with time tested and not any other. BTW, these kids that I've coached that have had this success, have continued that success not only at the high school level but higher. Good enough for me. (That'd be like being married to Eva Longoria and you telling me that if I left her, you think I could get a date with Jessica Simpson. I'll stick with Eva.)

As per me being "wrong," I don't go on this website spouting my beliefs. I keep most of that discussion for Steve's site. I believe that you can't find one poster, other than you, that I've ever argued with on this site about hitting at all. Perhaps Bluedog but he and I have had several great discussions away from public forums.

IF ANYONE OUT THERE HAS EVER ENGAGED IN AN ARGUMENT WITH ME OVER HITTING, PLEASE STATE SO NOW.
Last edited by CoachB25
ChameleonChameleon100+ posts
quote:
NO you fail to percieve the truth



There you have it.

That's the best proof they can offer.

It's the same as "Steve said so".

Better dig into that video.

P.S.1 Beware when a high school coach posts about what he teaches, how he teaches and how his "system" works regarding hitting. They have virtually 0 time to teach the skills of the sport. They are pretty decent at making out lineup cards, changing pitchers and deciding when to bunt though.

P.S.2 i before e except after c.
Last edited by Chameleon
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by micmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon:
As for all the quotes, maybe you missed it.

I was wrong. I've said I was wrong.

Now, when will N y m a n, Greg Stock, Englishbey, Fungo, MarkH, ssarge, yourself, etc etc etc (sorry if I forgot you who would love to be included)

The video proves it. The PCR and PCRW bat path is not mlb quality.

Some and their posses just can't seem to come to grips with it.

Fess up. I did immediately.

So, we're not getting together?

I detect apprehension. You will be put in a precarious position. You will have to chose between fact and fiction.

Will you demonstrate a search for the truth?




Chameleon,

I believe you are right about MLB hitters and handle torque. My question is, who taught them??? I have had dealings with a couple of MLB hitting coaches in the past and my son even took lessons from one as part of a deal to play on a travel team, but none of them ever taught handle torque. Why is that? In fact, the one instructor that taught my son didn't teach anything that made much sense to me or my son other than situational hitting. He was a hands teacher only, nothing about core, legs, hips, except to bring your feet to shoulder width apart (something I strongly disagree with). I have always believed in flat hands at contact and using the elbow tuck to reach that position. I have practiced using my top hand to pull the barrel rearward as my hands go forward and it is quicker. I'm not sure you HAVE to do it to hit MLB pitching as Ankeil has somewhat shown, but I can see where it would improve your chances of being consistent.



Is it possible that handle torque and bat float are just naturall progressions from rotational hitting and the best will get there?


You can watch Jim Edmonds and he seems to me to be classic rotational all the way down to the bat sitting on his shoulder and he has done very well.


Albert Pujols doesn't float the bat like Bonds,he does slowly drop his hands and then attack.


I would think the reason why the mlb coaches don't teach it(atleast a certain way) is because each person is different in what they need to do to relax right before that point they are to "spring into action".I am sure the hitting coaches help each player find what works for THEM.


On a different note

I was watching a major league hitting coach on tv and he said when a player comes up from the minors they give little to no instruction on how or what to do to hit the ball,there advice is to just hit the ball and put it in play.

Going back to some other discussions about Ankiel and teaching the kids to hit.
Last edited by tfox
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by tfox:
Is it possible that handle torque and bat float are just naturall progressions from rotational hitting and the best will get there?

I think that must be what happens. They tuck their elbows to get to flat hands, but because the MLB pitcher's ball breaks so late that they have to torgue the handle to get their hands into position in time to still get to the ball. I think that great athletes find a way and that is what enables them to progress up the ladder from A ball to MLB.


You can watch Jim Edmondds and he seems to me to be classic rotational all the way down to the bat sitting on his shoulder and he has done very well.



Albert Pujols doesn't float the bat like Bonds,he does slowly drop his hands and then attack.


I would think the reason why the mlb coaches don't teach it(atleast a certain way) is because each person is different in what they need to do to relax right before that point they are to "spring into action".I am sure the hitting coaches help each player find what works for THEM.


On a different note

I was watching a major league hitting coach on tv and he said when a player comes up from the minors they give little to no instruction on how or what to do to hit the ball,there advice is to just hit the ball and put it in play.

Going back to some other discussions about Ankiel and teaching the kids to hit.


I think we are looking at 1 plane and 2 plane swings, IMO. Virtually all rotate, some just have a little more back to front motion.

I think a hitting Coach's job is to find what swing works with each hitter and not to clone them, but once the hands move to the ball there is very little difference in most good hitters. The Insructors job is to get them to that position in the most comfortable and efficient way possible.
Last edited by micmeister
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
In a sadistic sort of way I really enjoy these threads where everyone argues and cuts down each other. I’m afraid there is something wrong with finding humor in reading this stuff (I mean the personal stuff), but I just can’t help it. Of course, I only enjoy it when I’m actually not part of the discussion! Is this a symptom of some kind of serious mental condition? crazy

Think I’ll get one of them anonymous user names and join in. If all of a sudden you notice a new vicious attacker showing up on here, arguing about everything everyone posts and making personal insults… Please forgive me, I’m just having a lot of fun before they come to get me.

Oh! Forgot! This is a hitting forum, so not to be off target, here’s a good old "basic" hitting tip that nobody has ever been able to dispute and never will.

“HIT IT WHERE THEY AINT”

If that valuable advice is followed you will be extremely successful, in fact it works every time.

Sorry
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Blue Dog

We are talking HS Travel baseball here where good baseball is and should appreciated---we had 9 doubleplays in 7 games and 4 consecutive shutouts in a tournament just finished ---the title game ( no we were not in it) was a 2-0 with a great play for a final out with the bases loaded--great baseball-- fun to coach and watch---all wood and REAL BASEBALL--

By the way when you run an event like this it is very fulfilling to see the top level of baseball that occurs---all 7 inning games under 2 Hours, many 1:30--

I need no skirt to play real baseball and there were no homeruns in the 42 games played---just great baseball--- in fact the umps that had worked the tournament and were not working the title game came back to watch the title game---great compliment to the players

I really dont care if chicks think they dig the long ball I like real baseball---if you are teaching kids to hit home runs I think you are wrong-- kids need to learn how to hit for AVERAGE!!!
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
By the way when you run an event like this it is very fulfilling to see the top level of baseball that occurs


Most one-run games are lost, not won. –Gene Mauch

"We hit the ball right where they could show off their defensive ability." - Earl Weaver (Baltimore Orioles manager), after the Orioles lost the 1969 World Series to the Mets.

TRhit, sure, top level of defense being played.....But, not top level of hitting....

PGStaff gave us some good advice, hit it where they ain't and you will be successful....This is not the precursor to double-plays being turned or to shutouts.......

No defense will shut down great power hitters....

If you can hit, you're gonna play!
Last edited by BlueDog
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