Video of my Son

IMO he looks pretty good. He has good balance, and I would guess that hes a pretty good athlete.

I think he can benefit from a little more bat tip, and seeing how far he can load his right elbow behind him (toward the third base dugout), but not so much that it compromises his balance or vision.

Your boy looks good, and I hope he's enjoying his baseball journey.

I understand about the loading demonstrated by the elbow going back. That is somthing that he can work on that should result in more power. We are still trying to get his hips more fully in the game right now. But, your suggestion makes a lot of sense also.
Thank you!

Here you go. Check out the similarities and the differences.



I'd say Eric is well into the "mlb pattern". Very good. How old is he? I'm guessing he's a successful hitter at his level?

First thing I notice is the weight shift difference. As Pujols loads his rear hip (as he picks up his lead foot....or sometimes he just rotates up to the toe of that foot) his weight goes forward. Eric's goes rearward. This will cause a slight delay in launch. A small...very small...but significant amount of "slack" that slows him ever so slightly.

Second thing I notice is Pujols tips his barrel toward the pitcher before launch. This can be a MAJOR deal. Then again it may not be. But you should experiment with it. It does a couple of things. First....it allows his barrel a running start rearward. Your son gets a running start but not as big of one. This running start is very helpful to the eventual launch of the swing. Inertia is broken...so it's easier to turn it on at "go". And this is a big help in timing pitchers. The other thing about the tip is it leads to a better untip....the running start that I just mentioned.....but not just untip but untip by swiveling the hands. This again is a timing improvement but most importantly....IT KEEPS THE HANDS AT THE ARMPIT/SHOULDER. The barrel going rearward while the hips open creates separation. Your son gets pretty good separation. His barrel does go rearward....nice....but....his hands "go to the ball" a little at "go" instead of just "swivel" the barrel around. This is huge because your son will have to commit earlier than Pujols because of this.

In other words....use the hands to swivel the barrel around more and use the arms less. Ideally, the arms just direct the already swiveling barrel to the ball....they shouldn't power the swing.

If done properly this will quicken and shorten the swing....which gives him more read time....the best thing a coach can give a hitter.

If you stare at the side by side clip....you should be able to see Pujols using his hands to turn the barrel while your son pulls with the arms. This is significant.

If arm pull is involved in powering the swing...it will force early commitment....and since the arms are powering the swing they aren't available for "on the fly" adjustment without significant degradation of the swing.

Pujols powers his swing with the hand swivel (and the hips) and this leaves his arms free to direct this already turning barrel to the ball.

Difficult to put into words but very significant.

Another way of saying it is Eric achieves good separation against stationery hands and while he does turn the barrel rearward at "go" he pulls will his arms. Pujols gets the barrel going rearward with his hand swivel and then just continues the barrel around that same arc at "go"....leaving his arms for adjusments.

Your son has a bright future. Do not take these comments wrong. I believe he is advanced. Some tweaks could really help him.

Something to think about.

The smaller the axis of rotation and the closer it is to the barrel the shorter and quicker and more efficient the swing will be.

The axis of Pujol's barrel's rotation is his hands.

The axis of Eric's barrel's rotation is his spine because of the way he uses his arms. That is a significantly "larger" and "further away" axis.

THE IMPORTANT axis in the swing is the axis of the barrel's rotation....not the axis of the body's rotation.

Making the changes I suggest will allow much deeper contact....meaning more read time without sacrificing bat speed and quickness.

Thank you very much for your analysis!. The pitch in the clip is away, could that be why he appears to be more "army". Or does he appear that way to you in each of his swings? We try to stress "hands", and discourage "arms". I will look at the other cues you mentioned and review them with my Son tonight. He is on the way back from hitting instruction right now.

He uses his hands pretty good. But I also believe his hand set is such that it requires arm pull.

The "new" mlb swing (as compared to the oldtimers) is in a diagonal swing plane. The oldtimers were mostly horizontal.

Here is what I would do with him. Put his hands around a pole like this and tell him to snap it off. Obviously he won't snap it off. But it will give him a "feel" of what he's looking for. Using the barrel's weight as resistance to create the snap the pole move will take his arms out of the swing.

Before you laugh, the resistance the pole provides is SO great that the separation of the lower body from the upper is ridiculously easy, fast, automatic. Your legs just kind of fly out there. Because......the pole provides TOO much resistance. But the "feel" of the action of the hands is what is important. AND, using the weight of the barrel going rearward, instead of the pole, will provide just the right amount of resistance to facilitate separation.



Get him to "feel" like his hands will snap off a pole just below the bottom hand at go. Currently I believe his arms would pull the pole....not snap it off.

And here is a demonstration of the "snap the pole" drill side by side to David Ortiz. I believe the "snap the pole" action creates Ortiz's (all mlb players) barrel path.



Finally....when he gets the hand set right along with the "snap the pole" move....he will have created the diagonal swing plane. What is HUGELY beneficial from that is this...



What does it show? It shows how Ryan Howard is "on plane" with pretty much any pitch he'd be interested in BEFORE it's thrown.

He simply swivels the hands, from his armpit location, in the proper direction. He uses the diagonal swing plane, created by the hand swivel to be "on plane" always.

Here is another important check point.



Look at how the lead elbow "juts" upward. It won't happen on all pitch locations but it will happen most of the time.

That is a good sign of proper hand usage....supination of the rear forearm....pronation of the lead forearm....as compared to what he does by pulling the bat through. The main difference is the lead elbow. Currently he gets his lead elbow into the swing plane first and then swings. That is not the proper action. The lead elbow should rotate up there, into the "jut" position, as a result of the hands turning the barrel....the supination/pronation of the forearms.

Im no pro, but im just going to say reccomend something that i have found to be VERY helpful in the long ball power.

In every video on this page of professionals, you see a step before the weight transfer. This i have found is key in the Long ball. Every big bat in MLB takes it (well nearly all but still). Bonds, Pujols, Griffey, Ortiz, Manny, Arod, all have the step, or variation of such as the roll.

My suggestion is slightly lessen stance, and take the step.

Just to say, i also have the pujols style swing. My fall team is under coach of an Ex-Major Leaguer, and he said the biggest thing in the arsonal of the Big Bat is the weight transfer. It takes the ball loooooooooong trust me. Plus, my problem was that i had a choppy trasnfer, and so i smoothed it, and took the step. LEts just say i cant wait for the AZ Fall Classic

This is the clip i watched for quite a while. Notice the power of this swing, inside pitch over left field fence.

quote:

In other words....use the hands to swivel the barrel around more and use the arms less. Ideally, the arms just direct the already swiveling barrel to the ball....they shouldn't power the swing.

If done properly this will quicken and shorten the swing....which gives him more read time....the best thing a coach can give a hitter.

I'm rarely fascinated by the hitting discussions here but this caught my eye. I'm always trying to understand the swing better and find ways to help my sons improve. So, rather than a hitter thinking "hips" or "shoulders", should the hitter be thinking "hands". Is it a matter of just see the ball and think that you want your hands to whip the bat through as quickly as possible? Perhaps there's a better way to verbalize that to a batter to give him a good cue?

Do you just think hands and allow your body to just instinctively turn?

Jon

Ideally, that is all the thinking there should be, if that.

If the mechanics are sound, all that is left is delivering the bat to the point of contact.

.

quote:

If you stare at the side by side clip....you should be able to see Pujols using his hands to turn the barrel while your son pulls with the arms. This is significant.

Cham, this is the first thing I noticed.

quote:

Originally posted by willj1967:

I'm rarely fascinated by the hitting discussions here but this caught my eye. I'm always trying to understand the swing better and find ways to help my sons improve. So, rather than a hitter thinking "hips" or "shoulders", should the hitter be thinking "hands". Is it a matter of just see the ball and think that you want your hands to whip the bat through as quickly as possible? Perhaps there's a better way to verbalize that to a batter to give him a good cue?

Do you just think hands and allow your body to just instinctively turn?

Jon

Jon

What the hands do....or better said....what the hands are going to do....what they are about to do....tells the body how to organize itself for the upcoming task. And, it will do it's thing subconsciously.

The hands must be the swing thought. More specifically, swiveling the barrel rearward at "go", must be the swing thought.

The rest of the body is very important. But, without the right swing thought....without the right "go" move....everything gets out of sequence.

Take a look at this link and watch the barrel movement. The hands create this movement. The body falls in line accordingly.

The lower body is slave to the upper body.

This is some very advanced, high level hitting instruction and advice on Eric Grabe's swing.

Floridafan, the only thing I can add in regard to this very good swing is make sure the lead arm doesn't bar too much, too early. The frontside shoulder appears to be opening up toward the third base side a fraction too soon, especially considering the location of pitch. You can get away with this with the metal bats because of the huge sweet spot afforded by technology and hardness of the bat. Keep in mind, the wood bat has a less hittable area, and if you desire to ultimately reach that professional level, try to focus swings on that same hittable area you would have with the wood.

Chameleon's first clip with the pole serving as a center of resistance demonstrates the more desired angle of the front-arm by professional hitting instructors training professional players, right now! Good job on that clip Chameleon and the second swing is good too! Richard, you are doing some good work here! You're other suggestions were right on point and I totally endorse the running start with adjustments made as hand-eye coordination takes over in sending nano-messages to the brain as the bat finds the desired slot. I also teach the 45 degree diagonal swing plane approach opposed to horizontal after bat tipping. The 45 degree diagonal appoach will help eliminate those frontside concerns and force that frontside to stay closed and not fly open too soon. Remember this cue when working on that aspect I just mentioned, "Take the barrel to the ball". Just say it to yourself subconsciously when you hit and develop muscle memory. You can do it! Perfect practice makes perfect and you are on the way!

Great stuff here that can help make a huge difference in reaching the highest levels. Your son is making good progress floridafan. Keep doing the right things and good things will happen. Good luck in WWBA tournament coming up later this month Eric Grabe. peace shep

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
The frontside shoulder appears to be opening up toward the third base side a fraction too soon, especially considering the location of pitch.

Thanks Shep.

The 'arm pull' that I spoke of equals 'the shoulder opening up toward 3B too soon' that you speak of.

IMO, the difference is in how the hands are used, as compared to how Eric uses his arms. A different power supply is engaged by big league hitters. Turning the barrel rearward at "go", with the hands, through forearm rotation, allows the creation of early batspeed without opening that lead shoulder.

I do not believe shoulder rotation is part of a high level swing. Shoulder rotation "opens" the hitters upper body and pulls him off the ball or out of the zone. This is PCR and PCRW's big mistake. Instead big league hitters use the hands to turn the barrel rearward at "go" and laterally tilt the shoulders to energize the system.

The shoulders will turn....but not independently. They laterally tilt and since they are attached to the hips, and since the hips turn, the entire torso and upper body will turn. This gives them and others the impression that shoulder rotation is occuring. But the shoulders do not rotate indpendently nor as part of the so called 'kinetic chain'.

Big league hitters generate bat speed AND stay "in the zone" without being pulled out or off the ball by the proper use of their hands.

The hands control the system. Better said....what the hands are about to do controls the system. It sends a signal to the brain and the body preps itself for the upcoming task. Teaching it any other way gets everything out of sequence and leaves the hitter with only brute strength rotation which has no mechanical advantage that is comparable to the "stretch and fire" mechanical advantage.

Big Leaguers Demonstrating

Cham, I have read many if your post, don't always agree, or maybe just misreading it. Sometimes I think you are nuts, However in this thread I think you are dead on with some things.

I will say this Flafan, making the adjustment with the hands as mentioned above takes alot of time. When he starts tipping the bat for early speed (rather than pulling/dragging) he will initially turn the hands over too early in the hitting zone. Correct this by making sure the right elbow stays tucked through the hitting zone. After a few hundred swings he will start to feel it, he will feel the power and speed. Then he has to adjust his timing mechanism. Believe me, as small as the adjustment seems it is a big change and will take time for him to trust it.

I'm not very good at writing what I'm thinking on the swing(why I usually avoid doing it in detail) so I hope this makes sense.

quote:

The 'arm pull' that I spoke of equals 'the shoulder opening up toward 3B too soon' that you speak of.

This is significant, when you are forced to pull(which ends up like a sweep of the bat)your shoulders are forced to do more of the work. This is not desirable.

I went through this very thing with my son. When I get a chance I will post video of pre and post adjustment. I would love to see the comments as well.

Good post here, no arguing... keep it up!

Cham, is that you up there humping on that pole?

Sorry, couldn't resist

quote:

Then he has to adjust his timing mechanism. Believe me, as small as the adjustment seems it is a big change and will take time for him to trust it.

Remember, this is internet stuff here, be carefull on changing a nice swing (which Eric has). I'm sure you already know that, just a reminder.

B

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
When he starts tipping the bat for early speed (rather than pulling/dragging) he will initially turn the hands over too early in the hitting zone. Correct this by making sure the right elbow stays tucked through the hitting zone. After a few hundred swings he will start to feel it, he will feel the power and speed. Then he has to adjust his timing mechanism. Believe me, as small as the adjustment seems it is a big change and will take time for him to trust it.

This has not been my experience.

The handle torque that turns the barrel rearward is instantaneous. It's an instantaneous "launch and spend".

key word is rearward. This direction provides/allows a margin of error. By launching rearward you are launching (sort of) but not commiting. A running start that is controllable. A HUGE timing benefit.

quote:

Jon

What the hands do....or better said....what the hands are going to do....what they are about to do....tells the body how to organize itself for the upcoming task. And, it will do it's thing subconsciously.

The hands must be the swing thought. More specifically, swiveling the barrel rearward at "go", must be the swing thought.

The rest of the body is very important. But, without the right swing thought....without the right "go" move....everything gets out of sequence.

Take a look at this link and watch the barrel movement. The hands create this movement. The body falls in line accordingly.

The lower body is slave to the upper body.

1) Thanks for your answer. I understand it, I think. I'd like to further probe it by asking about the 'swiveling of the barrel rearward at "go".' I have more than one question about this. Is the movement to generate bat speed, to get the bat on the correct plane, or both? Is this the same as what I've read Mankin describe as top hand torque (I think that's his term) in which the top hand pulls the barrel back toward the catcher as the first movement?

2) And that leads me to a question about what leads up to the bat tipping or whatever you consider to be the starting point of the swing. I've heard "experts" say that you should have an inward turn when you load, with the visual key being that you 'hide your hands from the pitcher'. I've heard other "experts" say that you should keep your hands in front when you load for a more direct forward hand path. Would you prefer to see one or the other method?

3) And I guess my last question is this, if you do an inward turn to a position where the pitcher cannot see your hands, doesn't your first hand movement have to be toward the first base dugout? That would seem to make the swing longer (based on my limited knowledge and assumptions).

Thanks.
Jon

quote:

Originally posted by willj1967:

1) Thanks for your answer. I understand it, I think. I'd like to further probe it by asking about the 'swiveling of the barrel rearward at "go".' I have more than one question about this. Is the movement to generate bat speed, to get the bat on the correct plane, or both? Is this the same as what I've read Mankin describe as top hand torque (I think that's his term) in which the top hand pulls the barrel back toward the catcher as the first movement?

The direction of the hand swivel, rearward, creates bat speed without moving toward the ball to generate it. ANY other hand action that I know of....besides the rearward turning of the barrel that I believe in....to generate bat speed....to get the barrel moving....moves the hands/arms forward. This is commitment. Turning the barrel rearward provides a 'buffer' if you will. Bat speed is generated but no commitment is made until a couple of video frames later.

I just made these two clips of Holliday and Atkins from today's game.



Notice their barrel's going rearward at "go" and how it just continues around that arc into the hit zone. The do not cut it off and push to contact. It's very similar to "twirling a ball on a string" type of movement. Different....but similar. Create the arc then move it to the ball.

THE critical frame in analyzing video, IMO, is the "go" frame. Identify that first and then ask yourself..."What did they do before "go"?"....What did they do after "go"?"....How did it all come together? What IS their commitment? Is it the hips? Is it the hands? etc etc.

quote:

2) And that leads me to a question about what leads up to the bat tipping or whatever you consider to be the starting point of the swing. I've heard "experts" say that you should have an inward turn when you load, with the visual key being that you 'hide your hands from the pitcher'. I've heard other "experts" say that you should keep your hands in front when you load for a more direct forward hand path. Would you prefer to see one or the other method?

I don't believe "hide the hands" is a particularly good idea. I do believe you can see that kind of movement in many hitters. I also believe it isn't done by all of them. I think the critical point is the amount of independent movement of the hands as compared to their movement caused by counter rotation of the torso. In any case....whatever loads....shoulders? hips? hands? posture?....it all must unload the hands....immediately.

That is why the "snap the pole" thought works. As you get into a position to "snap the pole" the mind has been told that that is the movement you're about to produce. It then gets the body involved in the proper way to facilitate that movement and to make it as explosive as possible. In so doing, there will be some loading....but most importantly is the creation of separation between the upper and lower body.

quote:

3) And I guess my last question is this, if you do an inward turn to a position where the pitcher cannot see your hands, doesn't your first hand movement have to be toward the first base dugout? That would seem to make the swing longer (based on my limited knowledge and assumptions).

My personal opinion is your hands must "see the ball" before launch. That may not be literally true....but it is true by "feel". If they are hidden to the degree they cannot "see the ball" you will have slack in your swing. You'll have to move the hands to a new position before they can launch.

There is no substitute for the proper handset that allows the "instantaneous launch and spend" by turning the barrel rearward at "go". The "snap the pole" concept will help your hitters find that handset.

Barrel Turning Rearward At "GO"

As to your question about Mankin's THT....turning the barrel rearward at "go" is similar....but different. I believe the launch of the barrel rearward is much more....than just the "fingers pulling rearward like an archer pulling his bow". I believe the barrel is turned rearward as a result of aggressive forearm rotation....supination of the rear forearm....pronation of the lead forearm....lateral tilt of the shoulders....and rotation of the triangle formed by the two forearms and chest (similar to Epstein's weathervaning...lead elbow works up as the rear one works down). The action just described IS the launch of the swing. It will turn the barrel reaward. It results in an instantaneous launch. No slack. Instant connection.

Excellent analysis. Thanks.

Jon

Stretch and Fire

Here is a lesson.



Rowand's swing starts just like the one above doesn't it?

Sends the barrel rearward as the hips open.

But here is the complete clip.



Hmmmmm.

Can you say "adjustability"?

Can you say "create the arc then move it to the ball"?

Because of what he does with his hands to turn the barrel rearward, at the beginning of the process, he is afforded the adjustability to move the rotating barrel to the ball with his arms.

IF his arms were involved in powering the swing either on their own OR THROUGH SHOULDER ROTATION this adjustment could not be made without significant degradation.

Can you say "Running Start"?

Can you say "high level mlb pattern"?

Watch Jim Thome taking a pitch.

His barrel went rearward....the hips opened......BUT HE NEVER SWINGS.

Hmmmmm?


The REAL high level pattern involves the lead leg/knee and hips opening against the barrel's rearward movement creating separation that leads to the "stretch and fire" or "instantaneous launch and spend".

Proof that the hands control the process.



This is why determining the "go" frame so is important to making decisions on swing mechanics.

Chameleon,

Some pretty interesting stuff you're posting here. I've always believed the hands and eyes are the two most important things in hitting. (Not that the other parts don't count)

While I'm not sure I understand every single thing you're saying perfectly clear, you are really coming up with some great stuff here that makes a lot of sense. I am just a bit confused as to how the hands can cause everything else to automatically work properly. Please keep it up!

Really good stuff in here. Just wanted to add. Notice the tilt of the front shoulder down right before you would say GO. Look back at the young hitter's shoulder tilt and compare it to Pujols. The young hitter is more parallel to the ground. Pujols (and others) have the tilt that shortens the barrel to the hitting area and results in less of a loop to the low pitch. This angle can be drawn to the hitting area.

Also, notice how Pujols heel goes ahead or even with the front of his foot. (He turns his front knee in more.) This counter-rotation guarantees it chains up. Look back at the young hitter, who does not get as much front knee turn.

Sorry, just one more observation. I didn't realize Pujols had as much linear head movement towards the pitcher. I always thought the length of his stride was zero inches and his head didn't move much. Great side view.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
When he starts tipping the bat for early speed (rather than pulling/dragging) he will initially turn the hands over too early in the hitting zone. Correct this by making sure the right elbow stays tucked through the hitting zone. After a few hundred swings he will start to feel it, he will feel the power and speed. Then he has to adjust his timing mechanism. Believe me, as small as the adjustment seems it is a big change and will take time for him to trust it.

This has not been my experience.

The handle torque that turns the barrel rearward is instantaneous. It's an instantaneous "launch and spend".

key word is rearward. This direction provides/allows a margin of error. By launching rearward you are launching (sort of) but not commiting. A running start that is controllable. A HUGE timing benefit.

Hope this makes sense: In my experience, when a kid has adjusted and is creating early bat speed that he has not had before, his natural tendency is to extend or roll the hands too early. Thus, he needs to stay "connected" longer than he is used to. This is easily corrected with tee and soft toss.
Also because he is tipping and torqueing the bat, it feels (at first) like he is taking longer to get to the hitting zone even though that is not the case. Thats why I mentioned trusting the adjustment.
It takes some time and work but well worth it.

So....you're walking down the airport terminal....you realize it's a long walk to your gate....you've passed a people mover and you decide you'll use the next one.

As you walk up it, you see it's moving....before you step on it....and as you get right to it you simply step onto it and BOOM....suddenly....you are moving significantly faster.

The hips, in the baseball swing, resemble the people mover at the airport. The people mover is already moving before you use it. The hips are already moving....they are already turning open....prior to engaging them in the swing.

A difference in the analogy is that the hands in hitting are working against the hips....creating stretch....creating separation....which "unstretches" as the hands turn the barrel rearward at "go"....creating the "stretch and fire" or "instantaneous launch and spend"....which is absolutely necessary for the task at hand....hitting high level pitching.

The sudden boost that your barrel gets when the hands give up their "hold" on the system by firing the barrel rearward at "go", resembles how you get a sudden boost at the airport.

The running start properly applied.

Compare that to what is usually taught....and is taught by PCR and PCRW....keeping everything closed until "go" so that you launch the swing with the hips....in other words "go" is a hip movment instead of a hand movement....and so that you have more distance over which to apply force. They believe if you are closed you have more distance at "go".

What they give up in that technique is the "mechanical advantage" of the stretching of the body....similar to the stretching and then unstretching of a rubber band. As they say, a rubber band is useless until it is stretched.

A hitters hips, (relatively speaking....considering the task at hand....hitting 90+mph fastballs in multiple locations and then dealing with offspeed pitches also)...are useless unless they are used to create stretch against the upper body....that can be unstretched at the precise moment....and precise moment is a key. It has to be instantaneous. And no human being can use brute strength rotation and the kinetic chain AND be instantaneous.

Only "unstretching the previously stretched system" provides the "suddenness" necessary to hit at a high level. And to unstretch you first have to stretch. And this stretching occurs during the "wait" period as the hips open several frames before "go" to accomplish this.

They (PCR/PCRW)teach stepping onto a stopped people mover and THEN it starts as you start walking.

They teach a dragster to be stopped at the start line when reality is the mlb players get to roll up to it as the lights come down the tree.

quote:

So....you're walking down the airport terminal....you realize it's a long walk to your gate....you've passed a people mover and you decide you'll use the next one.

As you walk up it, you see it's moving....before you step on it....and as you get right to it you simply step onto it and BOOM....suddenly....you are moving significantly faster.

Cham, I have know idea what you are talking about here? Please don't explain it ....

When you play marbles and load the forefinger against the thumb....what is the forefinger doing?

It is already firing forward except for the "hold" that the thumb has on it. And as the thumb releases the hold the forefinger flicks the marble very suddenly...very quickly...and you can fire the marble a good distance.

PCR and PCRW want you to align your forefinger with the marble, loaded against nothing but back a ways so that you have distance over which to apply force, and then push the marble as quickly as you can without using the thumb to load against.

You can not be instantaneous with that setup.

MLB hitter's hips are "turning open"....wanting to really "go" but for the hold the hands have on them. And when the hands turn the barrel rearward, aggressively at "go", there is a suddenness to the result....a very very quick movement to the ball by the barrel. A whip.

I highly recommend the Snap the Pole swing thought.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I am just a bit confused as to how the hands can cause everything else to automatically work properly. Please keep it up!

It's the direction of the launch by the hands....not just the hands.

The forearms have to rotate....rear forearm supinates....lead forearm pronates.

You just have to grab a pole and supinate/pronate the forearms as if to snap it off just below the bottom hand. Pay attention to what your body wants/needs to do to deal with the resistance that pole provides.

Then...experiment with a bat like this...



If so, you'll really start to understand this...



...and what is shown here...

Bonds

Notice how many times Bonds front foot lands "open" as if he's stepping in the bucket some.

Notice how he does not land toe/heel....instead his foot lands flat most of the time. And if the toe does land first there is NO toe touch to heel drop creation of rotation as taught by many.

Notice how far open the hips are when his front foot lands.

More importantly, notice how far open the hips are when his hands "go"....when they give up the "hold".

Notice how he sends the barrel rearward to create an arc....and opens against that arc.

Notice how he then gets that arc in front of the ball.

Notice how almost every swing starts exactly the same....with the hand swivel....in the same direction....from the same height....no matter where the pitch is....yet he gets to all of em.

Then verify it with this...

Other Pro Examples

Here is one for the lazy...



First determine Chippers "go"....his hand commitment.

Then notice what the barrel did before "go".

Then notice where the barrel is AT "go".

Then notice what the hips did before "go".

Then notice where the hips are....what position they are in....AT "go".

Then notice just HOW the bat is fired....how it is fired into the already occuring arc. In other words....rearward.

Notice the "suddenness" of the actual launch....the "go" move.

Notice the increase in tempo as he steps onto the people mover (as the bat engages with the already moving hips).

Notice how he is several frames into what most people consider the swing before he commits.

Then notice how he gets that arc to the ball.

Chameleon,

Not sure you answered my question, but you have really turned it up a notch here. I really admire you for the time you’ve spent studying this stuff. I like the rubber band stuff. Whether everyone agrees or not I think we all need to start taking what you have to say very seriously. I still disagree with your catch and throw technique, though!

The same rubber band is at work in the catch and throw.

As to your question.....I don't know how else to answer it.

You MUST learn how to use resistance to create the ultimate "immediate launch and spend". The barrel provides the resistance in the batters box. Learn to use it's weight for a serious "mechanical advantage".

The great Swingbuster taught me that.

Trying to push it or pull it or rotate it to the ball with the shoulders will not cut the mustard.

Better technique will.

Go to the pole.....try to snap it off. Don't pull on it. Don't push it. Snap it off. Rotate the forearms. Pay attention to your body....what is recruited and when is it recruited to accomplish the task....both just before the snap, during the snap, and after the snap.

BTW.....hitters do the same thing pitchers do. And I know you know what pithcers do. What position are pitchers in at "go"? When they actually throw the ball. Don't they separate prior to their "go"? Isn't that separation critcial to their success?

Hitters come close to eliminating the "reactionery" nature of hitting, as compared to pitching which is proactive, by sending the barrel rearward at "go". There is obviously still a reactionery element to hitting. But, with the proper use of the hands and forearms hitters can "deal" with it much better. They can create the stretch and the separation necessary for the immediate launch and spend.





See the hips opening as the arm/ball is going up? Stretch and Fire.

It's identical to the hips opening as the barrel goes rearward. In hitting the barrel is the throwers/pitchers hand and the hitters hands are the pitchers elbow. The forearm lays back in throwing and the barrel lays back in hitting.

Figure that one out.

PG, segmentation of the upper and lower body is at play in, both, throwing and hitting.........The basic premise is the same......

Tom has been saying this for a long time.......

Tom goes so far as to say that throwing and hitting should be taught together.....He has convinced me...That's what I do, now...

What do you see?



What is "go" (commitment)? Hips? Or Hands?

When is "go" (commitment)?

Where are the hips at commitment?

Where are the hips at NO commitment?

What does the barrel do BEFORE commitment?

What does the barrel do AT commitment?

Chameleon,

Not to sound brash, but I’ve known for at least 50 years now, that it’s the hands that commit.

I’ve enjoyed reading everything you’ve said here… Great stuff!

To be clearer... Here was the one thing you said that confused me.

quote:

What the hands do....or better said....what the hands are going to do....what they are about to do....tells the body how to organize itself for the upcoming task. And, it will do it's thing subconsciously.

Maybe I didn’t understand, but there are obviously things that take place before the hands know what they are going to do. Sorry, I’m kind of slow!

Guess I look at hitting as a complete body working together thing. And I also believe the eyes are what trigger everything to be in sequence! Don't you?

Thanks for all the good stuff. I've actually learned something from you here. And I've already used it to help a very good young prospect.

Something I've found out a long time ago. A good baseball person will catch on very quickly if something makes sense. Not to brag, but I feel I'm a good baseball person and you are making a lot of sense! Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
but there are obviously things that take place before the hands know what they are going to do.

Think so?

I don't.

I think the hands do the same thing every time.

Just a couple of examples in this thread but Rowand and Posada's hands do the same thing in each clip.......at "go".

Does your top hand go from "knocking on a door" to "flipping the bird" at "go"?

Rowand's and Posada's do.

In which of these swings does Bond's hands do something different at "go"?

Bonds

quote:

quote:
What the hands do....or better said....what the hands are going to do....what they are about to do....tells the body how to organize itself for the upcoming task. And, it will do it's thing subconsciously.

Yes, but I still don't understand how they tell the rest of the body what to do.