villanova/pbr workout/camp

Not sure if you been to many showcases or not but that's pretty much how they all are, except without games. Kids run the 60, get about 5 ground balls and fly balls if your an OF so they can judge your arm, fielding actions, footwork, etc. Then they get about 8 swings. Playing in a game is pretty good. And there are only a few very very good players that come out of these. Villanova is a D1 baseball school with very high academic standards to get in so I am sure to meet all their requirements is tough and only a few kids meet those. Sounds similar to what a college camp would be except you didn't have to drive to Pennsylvania.

My son was there. Tralpaz described it accuarately.

Nails is correct as well. When you go to a school's camp, they are charging you so they they can evaluate you. That is the game.

I think for the money, they could mail out an evaluation of what a kid needs to do to improve. Some kind of value for your money besides a tee-shirt. But the counter is the value was your shot in front of that school's coaches.

I have heard on this board and elsewhere that you should pick a school you want to attend and go to their camp. This way the coaching staff can get a real look at you. If my son went to all the individual camps he was invited to, he would be at camps dailey, and I would be living on the street.

The PBR showcase that PBR ran the day before Stevenson was great. Lots of scouts from lots of schools and ample chances to perform in front of them. From there, you can weed out the schools that have real interest and focus from there. For the same $140.00 you get in front of a lot of schools instead of one. JMO

quote:

Originally posted by Nails:
Sounds similar to what a college camp would be except you didn't have to drive to Pennsylvania.

Nails, that is incorrect. At the college camps you get at least a good deal of instruction, if the college does it right.

This again goes to show why showcases are not the best idea for 90% of high school players.

Showcases are for professional scouts only. When they look at a kid they have to determine, based on raw talent and physical size, if this kid can play a 162 game major league season.

Showcases for college are not a great idea, because you do not have time to develop only talent, you need to see if the kid is a competitor and how he plays the game.

If you are serious about attending the school & you would consider walking on, then I think the camps might be a good idea. My question would be, how many of those kids who sign on after attending the camp & the coach never really saw them play anywhere else get a "big" scholarship? My guess is probably not many. Preferred walk-ons, and "others" make up some of those college roster spots - even at some of the big schools. No body talks about that much.....

college camps do have instruction but they are money makers even more so than the showcases that are ran. All colleges fundraise with their camps and they allow ages from 9-18. So they are better bang for your buck but most of the time the colleges aren't getting kids out of their camps.

I think it is a good idea to attend a camp of a school your interested in because it will allow the coaches to see you more and interact with you and see if they like you but for the most part they are there to generate money for the school.

A showcase is exactly what it is, a showcase. There is no instruction being done because it's not a camp. Your there to showcase your abilities in front of colleges and pro scouts. I think alot of kids are seen and found in showcase type events. Them sending you out a sheet for evaluation and what you can improve on is a good idea but probably won't happen. I just think people need to realize the difference between to the two and lower their expectations, i you think your going to get a college scholarship bases on a showcase your way off, if you think you might get your name out there and noticed, then that's more like it.

I agree with all. For me, it is not specifically the size of the scholarship, but rather finding the right place -taking into account all the subjective data-- and determining the level to play. I think that is what this entire process is about. I understood the risk of a showcase, but i agree with bballdad and coach steely. next we'll go to specific school camps and tour the schools as well.

Most colleges routinely sign players that have attended their camp. Its up to the families to determine which camps are strictly looking for bodies/money and which ones might have genuine interest in that particular player. I know if i was a college coach/recruiter that had some interest in said player who maybe i hadnt seen enough of during the summer , i would want to get a closer look at him at camp to determine if i was going to offer or not.

quote:

Showcases are for professional scouts only.

Someone needs to tell this to all the highest level colleges in America. Pretty much every top college in the country (other than those playing in the College World Series) were at the Metrodome in Minneapolis this past June watching a Showcase.

quote:

Most colleges routinely sign players that have attended their camp.

This is a major misconception!

The top colleges go after the top players whether they attend their camp or not. The top colleges have rosters full of players who never attended their camps.

I never said colleges dont sign players who have not attended their camp. I pesonally know more than a few players who got signed after attending a camp.
Maybe i shouldnt have used the word routinely.

I didnt necessarily refer to " top colleges "

Sorry Sulltiger,

It's just that we often hear that the college camps are used for recruiting purposes and that is not really the way it works. The best players do not need to attend college camps and the best college programs will still recruit them.

BTW, I took "most" colleges as though it would include the "top" colleges.

Anyway, it is very common for colleges to invite their top priority recruits to their camps. Almost always these players were being recruited before the camp took place.

Just to be clear, I think kids "should" attend a college camp or two. The good ones will always be a benefit to a player.

I dont think we were discussing top players, different animal. I am talking about good kids that can play but havent cracked the door open...YET. I do think sulli is right based on discussions we have had. Come to our camp, let us get another look and maybe we'll talk afterward. I get it. We all have make that educated guess of will this camp be worth it. Clearly the Nova situation -in my opinion- was not.

PG,
Nothing personal (I'm a big fan) but the "best" players would probably be found if they did nothing else all summer but play wiffle ball in their back yard. It's an overstatement but the point is that there may be different strategies based on how high a ceiling your son has. If he's top 200 material, spend the $$$ and go for it, you'll get a good return (and PG does a great job for your investment). If he's not in the top echelon however, target marketing that includes college camps may be more effective. The point is the one size fits all approach may not work for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Anyway, it is very common for colleges to invite their top priority recruits to their camps. Almost always these players were being recruited before the camp took place.

Don't be afraid to contact the coaching staff and ask whether you/your son, is being invited to a camp because they've seen you/him play or have been referred to them by a scout and they have sincere interest, or you/him were just on a general mailing list.

We did this for every camp my son was interested in attending. If they didn't see him play, or know of him, he didn't attend; if they did see him or know of him and wanted to see more (don't be afraid to ask candidly), he went to the camp. Unless you/your son is a premier player that can show up and impress anyone, I'd recommend this approach.

Tuzi

That is exactly what we did recently when son received a nice letter from D1 school a little south of Ill. Said they saw him play in Cincy and asked for him to attend their camp. We contacted one of the coaches to ask a few questions to try to gauge their interest level and to ask if they did indeed see him play ( they did ) or just got his name off a list . The coach was very nice about answering any of our questions. We found out they only saw him play in a few games so i can understand them wanting to see more of him. We are going to attend this camp and price is right too --$100.00


It seems like there was some miscommunication in this thread . --A player attending a camp without any prior contact from the coaching staff --or--Player receiving camp invite after being seen by coaching staff.

Good job! This also shows that it is going take more than one event for most of our kids. For my son it was a combination of a few of the following: IL Sparks (summer), LWE HS Summer Play-Offs, University's Baseball Program's HS Camp, Cangelosi Fall Ball, Cangelosi Winter Showcase, and Good Grades.

I hope everyone is playing in a good fall ball program.

It is a process.

I don't think that the order of when it occurs matters. For my son for one school it was a first look, for another school it was a third look. For most of our kids the schools want to get as many looks as they can. And what is great about a college's camp, is that they can interact and speak with the kids.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

Showcases are for professional scouts only.

Someone needs to tell this to all the highest level colleges in America. Pretty much every top college in the country (other than those playing in the College World Series) were at the Metrodome in Minneapolis this past June watching a Showcase.

Sorry for the miscommunication here. I should have reread what I wrote. This was nothing against PG National or really anything PG does, it is against some of the Joe-Blow Showcases that attach a school to it. My intent on saying the showcases are for Professional scouts only, did not convey accurately what I meant.

Colleges can benefit greatly from seeing kids at Top Showcases by being able to get a look at many kids on their boards and maybe see some skills that they could not see during competition. But I believe that Pro scouts benefit the most from showcases because you can get a measure of raw skill.

I think there has to be a mixture of game exposure and showcase exposure and obviously, if you get invited to PG National it is an unbelievable opportunity and should be taken advantage of. Really anything perfect game does is great, because of the organization of events and the staff that does it. My beef is the exposure for the sake of exposure showcases that many local people put on for the sake of money.

Steeley-

It must be that Blue Ridge Mt. air messing with your brain!!! I have to say, I never drove thru the middle of a mountain before...not once but twice.

I think if you have the money, any exposure you can get can be beneficial. you never know where you might get seen and by who. Not many colleges attend HS games, so exposure events are ways for them to see you. Only a handful of Illinois kids were invited to the PG national so to rely on that isn't your best bet. There's plenty of D2, D3, juco, kids out there that would benefit from a local showcase.

I've heard it said more than once. There is a difference between being recruited and being invited to a camp. We decided early on that instead of trying to figure out which camp(s) to attend and which ones to pass on, we didn't go to any. Instead we kept our focus on the schools that were/are actively RECRUITING, that is; calling, setting up visits etc. Everybody's situation is different, but I think the likelyhood of being signed at one of these camps is minimal. Especially if you're not on the prospect board to begin with. And at this point in the year, I believe most colleges already have their lists pretty well developed. JMO. I also have some pretty good info that Villanova recruiting didn't exactly close up shop after this one...

quote:

Originally posted by igball:
PG,
Nothing personal (I'm a big fan) but the "best" players would probably be found if they did nothing else all summer but play wiffle ball in their back yard. It's an overstatement but the point is that there may be different strategies based on how high a ceiling your son has. If he's top 200 material, spend the $$$ and go for it, you'll get a good return (and PG does a great job for your investment). If he's not in the top echelon however, target marketing that includes college camps may be more effective. The point is the one size fits all approach may not work for everyone.

IG,
I'd have to respectfully disagree with both points...the kid would be found, and college camps more effective for under top echelon. I base this only on my narrow personal experience however and am not trying to state it as fact.

CPLZ, based on your personal experience, what would you recommend for the college prospect that is not in the upper tier?

RRF8,
that's the thing that nobody seems to talk about on here. Everyone talks about the Division 1 guy. All these showcases that you have heard about on here, TPX Top 96, PBR, etc have just as many, if not more D2, D3, NAIA coaches at them. These coaches use these to find kids that might be under the radar. I see a ton of kids get looks from smaller schools by attending these and other showcases. If you have the money, a showcase isn't a bad thing and there's more lower level coaches at them than you think.

RRF8,

Just how strong (or not)a student is your son? I think this is getting more and more important when searching out schools, and for schools searching out potential candidates. JMO.

Hi itsrosy, Actually my kid is doing okay with the camps and showcases. I am actually trying to get additional input for some of his friends and team mates (I think maybe they are tired of listening to me). Some of them have not received the attention I think that they deserve, so I was reaching out for some recommendations from the group. I do agree with you, strong academics improve your odds significantly.

Colleges/recruiters are moving kind of slowly at this point . Things should start to heat up a little between now and end of October . As far as i know , only some of the top top guys have had offers tendered. Am not at liberty to name names.

Yea, the top guys are the one's making verbal committments. If the group your talking to are D2, D3 type players those schools usually start making offers and signing guys later in the year toward January it seems. Plus, some schools are moving slowly because they have to get the kids on campus, see what type of person he is, grades, etc before they make him offers. They know the players these kids are from seeing them at games, camps, showcases. I think they rather take a little more time and find out the kids true personality and character then rush in and get someone they will have problems with for years.

quote:

Originally posted by RRF8:
CPLZ, based on your personal experience, what would you recommend for the college prospect that is not in the upper tier?

Understand that the following is based on personal experience and in no way considered the "right" or "only" way.

First...make a video, short, don't worry about production quality, show what needs to be shown...game situations if available.

Second...Make a website with 4 pages.
Home page with bio content and contact info and coaches and former coaches contact info.
2. Stats (HS & Travel) along with any awards (rated top prospect at such and such showcase...voted hardest worker on HS team,,,etc) Stats like pitching velocity should be noted with the place, date and who radared him with which gun (gives instant credibility to the rest of the stats)
3. Upcoming schedule (Calendar can be hosted by google with maps and directions to games/showcases/camps)
4. Video have google or youtube host video that is linked and can be played right on your site.

Third - Contact every head coach and recruiting coordinator of the teams he would like to play for by mail and email. These should be tiered as
A. Dreams
B. Probables
C. Fall Backs (Jucos or teams sure to want him) For my son it was Jucos

Tell them of interest in their program and in the email link to your website so they can take a look. Make correspondence brief...you have about 15 seconds to hold their interest.

Break your list down geographically. Where you have the greatest concentration of schools on your list, find a showcase, sign up, and then let every coach on the list know you will be there.

Get to PG WWBA in Jupiter (THIS IS A MUST IN MY MIND, especially for the unknown player). Contact every coach on the list and send him your schedule there. I honestly believe that more unknown kids get matched up with their schools based on initial or followup contact at this event than most others combined.

Some tips... Don't market, it'll probably turn more coaches off than get them interested. Everything the coach needs to know without contacting your son should be on the website. If there are any newspaper articles that highlight your son, link them or scan them to the website...let them market for you.

Don't be afraid to be honest. Let the coaches of the top schools know they are the ones high on your list. Also, don't tell a fallback school that they're your first choice. My son told some schools that were recruiting him that they were his fallback choices. It didn't deter them and they appreciated the honesty.

Follow up. Don't wait to hear back, show some initiative and interest. Every coach loves a go getter.

JMHO, but most showcases/camps, if just going blind (without any previous contact with coaches that will be in attendance) are a waste of time and money. A showcase is most valuable when people are there that already have your name circled on their attendee list to take a look at. Have junior go up to the coach, introduce himself and shake hands while Dad stands close enough to be seen, but far enough not to intrude.

The previous is especially true of college camps. For the player thinking he may not be D1, a D1 camp with a bunch of D2, D3 and NAIA coaches in attendance may be a great venue, again, if the coaches know he is going to be there and have shown some interest.

For the people that think just if you have talent, you'll automatically get found, well, that is probably true for football and basketball where there is lots of media coverage, but not so much for baseball. I had tons of people tell me that "if he really throws 90, they'd know about him". It's simply not true. If your son is not a blue chipper or a late bloomer, you need to take some steps to put him in front of some decision makers.

I might have rambled on a bit more than you asked, so sorry if I got longwinded or preachy.

CPLZ - You have a PM.

From my understanding, college recruiting takes place in two waves. The first begins at the end of the college season and culminates with the verbals (happening now) and early signs (in November). The second wave, a little less frenzied than the first, occurs when the dust from the first round settles, and teams realize what recruiting goals they were unable to fill. Unfortunately, a majority of the schools have already spent their money by then.. It's all about timing.. And being content with fact that as soon as you commit, you may have to tell a larger program or better school no thanks. Remember how the really pretty girls weren't interested in you until you got married? CPLZ, your insight is and has been invaluable. Hope Kirk is doing well.

This may be an obvious question. If a team waits to make my son an offer until September or October, does that definitely mean that they were not as interested as the teams that made him an offer in July or August? Should I expect a smaller percentage of a scolarship if my son holds out until October for other schools? I realize that it may depend on how he performs in the fall, but generally speaking.

RR, Don't be afraid to ask the coach where your son was on the prospect board.. And I don't think the answer to your question is obvious, I think it depends on when they found out about your son. And I also believe that the amount of the scholarship offer won't automatically be less in the fall, depending on how much money is left and how dire the need is for the position your son plays. Keep in mind, though, that scholarship offers only last until they fill the position. Keeping schools at bay until you decide is dangerous, and you may find the offer has been tabled. I am not sure that recruiters are monitoring fall-ball performance, those prospect lists have already been made, based on spring stats and summer sightings. Best of luck.

Colleges have to play the scholarship dollars game and also rank their prospects. They may be recruiting 8 RHP's for two scholarship slots. Your son may be #8, in which case, they need to weed out 6 higher prospects before they make an offer to your son.

My son is a great example of that because where he committed to, West Point, does not participate in the NLI. Therefore, schools had no way of looking up or knowing of his committment. The day after the MLB draft last year, he got calls and offers from some very, very big baseball schools that we had no idea were even interested in him. They knew they were going to lose their top recruits to MLB and scholarship dollars and roster slots became instantly available. Thier need was immediate and the cards came right out on the table.

Coaches may not give you a sense of where you are on the priority list, but if there is no offer yet, and they are still talking, that's a pretty good indicator that you aren't #1. Nothing wrong with that, but holding out for the offer is a roll of the dice that the prospects above junior will go somewhere else.

Paul Rambould from St. Ignatius was at this camp and ended up impressing and committing to Villanova. So these camps do produce offers and are worth it, you just have to impress the coaches and go into them knowing that it's not easy to do that, especially D1 schools.

well the original post was how this was a waste of time and they shouldn't have ran in the water and how colleges don't take these serious and just use it for money.

I think this shows that they do use it seriously and you can get recreuted out of camps like these but you have to go in knowing that only about 2 kids are going to get recreuted out of 75, that's about right with all showcases. But as I said before they can't hurt, you never know whose watching and who might like you at what time. Never take any chance to be seen for granted.

My son participated in the Stevenson showcase and the Headfirst Camp in Richmond, VA. We went east because he wants to go to school in the east. He hit 35 on the ACT's and has a high grade point average, so he will have options. Between the two showcases, he has heard from a total of 30 colleges, with 6 asking for transcripts, video, and his current classes for his senior year. Four have invited him out for visits and weekend stays, while a few others have called the house. So, I feel some camps are worth it.
However, the problem he is having is cross country, which he was also all conference and loves. All the dates conflict and he does not want to miss time. The team rules are, if you miss a practice or miss a meet you have to sit out the next meet. I tried to tell him that, since he won't be running cross country in college and does want to play ball then he needs to have a talk with his coach and then decide which school to go to. The funny part is, all of the invites were the same weekend.
I reminded him that, as someone wrote earlier, these coaches are all recruiting 8 - 10 kids for just a few openings and, if they feel you're not interested, you're history. I'm not sure what we'll do, but if does go to one then we'll need to contact the other coaches and set up some other visit, I guess. I'm not sure if individual school camps are worth it; those we just threw out and did not consider it a serious contact. However, Penn has contacted him three times, each time reminding him that 21 of their last 24 players were recruited from their camp. If that's the case, he might attend that camp.

nails, i cant argue your point, but were these kids already on the Nova radar prior to the event. So they figure a great way to cross check their top options and pick up a few dollars run a "camp". We chose this over alternative options thinking that this was a joint pbr venture. i have seen some of thier information and it seems good. So again, a "showcase" by Villanova and PBR seemed like a good bet for all the reasons you would go to such an event. I just dont know how much real "evaluation" really happended that day. I didnt see it the short time i was there.

byw, blue cat, "clinic" is not the correct description. That would imply instruction. lets not forget, 60 times from a muddy outfield and 4 groud balls from 3rd because SS was too wet.