See that post above me? Read it... and read it again... and again... until it sinks in. Anyone who has kids (young adults, whatever) touch a weighted ball... your going to ruin their career
just out of curiosity, who on this forum has hurt their arm using a weighted baseball and how?
X,
backup ure bald statment, what proof is there.
as i said i like them and get no pain at all from them.
X,
backup ure bald statment, what proof is there.
as i said i like them and get no pain at all from them.
Sounds like we have a one minded DickMills (Mastery of Pitching) Disciple here. I think you can learn something from all of the so called Guru's. My son has used a ball with weight for warm up's in bullpens. He also does Long toss about 2-3 times a week. He has never had an arm problem and he uses great mechanics. I know of people who have used weighted balls and they have no problem at all because they use a program for it and do not abuse themselves.
X Factor I know where you are coming from but I really feel you are one sided about things, you should open your mind with some other methods and not bash others. Just an opinion and you know what they say about those.
X Factor I know where you are coming from but I really feel you are one sided about things, you should open your mind with some other methods and not bash others. Just an opinion and you know what they say about those.
Mariano Rivera and Bartolo Colon have used weighted balls in the Bullpen to warm up and get loose as well. Saw it with my own eyes in Anaheim !!! Two Major Leaguers last time I checked.
We use them and follow the athletic pitcher program. Increase in velocity and also no arm problems.
Baseballbum:
Dick Mills is a plagiarist so I have no use for him. I do have his tapes though.
How old is your son? If he throws curve balls with his thumb turning up (supinating) then I am telling you he has poor mechanics.
As an aside, I went and talked to a pircher on rehab for the Yankees (minor league) last year. His parents told me he never had arm problems in his youth. He told me a completely different story. Many times kids don't say their arms are hurting because they want to play.
Having said the above, I wish your son well.
Dick Mills is a plagiarist so I have no use for him. I do have his tapes though.
How old is your son? If he throws curve balls with his thumb turning up (supinating) then I am telling you he has poor mechanics.
As an aside, I went and talked to a pircher on rehab for the Yankees (minor league) last year. His parents told me he never had arm problems in his youth. He told me a completely different story. Many times kids don't say their arms are hurting because they want to play.
Having said the above, I wish your son well.
I'm not bashing anyone. I've never seen a weighted ball study that didn't have holes in the way it was conducted.
And I'm not close minded... I've just seen enough stupid pitching coaches to know BS when I see it. I've had 3 friends never able to pitch again because of weighted balls they have thrown. So.. as you can tell I'm a little against them... just a little bit.
And yeah... parents tend to exagerate or ignore things and say like "Oh my son never has had an arm problem." When just the other day their kid threw 50 pitches and had to ice their arm because it was so sore.
I'm not saying that any of you are doing that... but parents tend to exagerate just a tiny little bit
And I'm not close minded... I've just seen enough stupid pitching coaches to know BS when I see it. I've had 3 friends never able to pitch again because of weighted balls they have thrown. So.. as you can tell I'm a little against them... just a little bit.
And yeah... parents tend to exagerate or ignore things and say like "Oh my son never has had an arm problem." When just the other day their kid threw 50 pitches and had to ice their arm because it was so sore.
I'm not saying that any of you are doing that... but parents tend to exagerate just a tiny little bit
XFactor, if I would of witnessed the same thing that you have my opinion would be different as well. I just think that many people, including dads and over acheiving coaches try and do things overnight to make a pitcher better, when you and I know it takes alot of work and patience in the off-season to get a pitcher to do well. This is the time when pitchers should work on mechanics and work on core strength and do all the things to become a better player. But wait if you buy my program now you can improve your speed and mechanics in just 4-6 weeks, and guess what people are so desperate that they fall for this.
To answer another posters question, the son may throw a curve ball , no door knob action and like a karate chop, about 4- 6 times a game. He usually throws 2 and 4 seams fastball and he is still working on having the confidence to throw the change. He sometimes posts on this website under my name as well.
Long Toss- Thrive on Throwing DVD is awesome.
Towel Drills, plyo training, flat ground throwing, and BP Sessions go a long way.
To answer another posters question, the son may throw a curve ball , no door knob action and like a karate chop, about 4- 6 times a game. He usually throws 2 and 4 seams fastball and he is still working on having the confidence to throw the change. He sometimes posts on this website under my name as well.
Long Toss- Thrive on Throwing DVD is awesome.
Towel Drills, plyo training, flat ground throwing, and BP Sessions go a long way.
quote:Towel Drills, plyo training, flat ground throwing, and BP Sessions go a long way.
BaseballBum: To be a better pitcher knock off the towel drill. The towel drill requires that you bend at the waist. You will apply force in an arc if you bend at the waist. Pitchers don't throw towels they throw baseballs.
When you throw long toss, you use a different arm angle than when you pitch. I would be cautious with it.
Kharma:
I'd like to ask you what your background is playing baseball? I see you like to study arm injuries...were you a pitcher?
Also with regard to weighted balls...Have you determined the number of pitching arm injuries where players did NOT use weighted balls?
Is there another profession, in your opinion, which would compromise the arm, or is a baseball pitcher paid to abuse his arm, recover and do it again?
TV slowed Curt Schilling's delivery for us the other night...straight fastball in slow motion.
It was amazing and the commentary was: "To heck with curve balls....fastballs at XX MPH is abusing the arm."
I'd like to ask you what your background is playing baseball? I see you like to study arm injuries...were you a pitcher?
Also with regard to weighted balls...Have you determined the number of pitching arm injuries where players did NOT use weighted balls?
Is there another profession, in your opinion, which would compromise the arm, or is a baseball pitcher paid to abuse his arm, recover and do it again?
TV slowed Curt Schilling's delivery for us the other night...straight fastball in slow motion.
It was amazing and the commentary was: "To heck with curve balls....fastballs at XX MPH is abusing the arm."
Chill:
I have no background in baseball to speak of. I have no information about how many pitchers hurt themselves who did not use weighted baseballs. We do know we have an epidemic of pitching arm injuries on our hands and all these pitchers use the traditional pitching motion. The TV commentator does not know what he is talking about (although he is correct that it is not only the curve ball that is wreaking havoc on these kids).
My questions for you: I assume your sons are using weighted baseballs. Have you done a before and after study of the cortex of their pitching arms to see if they got thicker due to using weighted balls. When your sons do bench presses do they lift 10 oz. to gain strength. Do your sons supinate the release of their curve balls ( turn the thumb up)? Get in line behind the catcher when your sons throw fastballs ( or curves). At the tops of their wind up can you see the ball or their elbow on the 1st base side of their head (assuming he is right handed)? Where does his pitching hand end up when he finishes his pitches. Does the hand come across his body? If your sons do these things (and they probably are) then they are systematically destryoing their arms. If your sons use weighted baseballs and have any of the flaws that I mention above you are only hastening the destruction of their arms.
Having said the above I wish you well.
I have no background in baseball to speak of. I have no information about how many pitchers hurt themselves who did not use weighted baseballs. We do know we have an epidemic of pitching arm injuries on our hands and all these pitchers use the traditional pitching motion. The TV commentator does not know what he is talking about (although he is correct that it is not only the curve ball that is wreaking havoc on these kids).
My questions for you: I assume your sons are using weighted baseballs. Have you done a before and after study of the cortex of their pitching arms to see if they got thicker due to using weighted balls. When your sons do bench presses do they lift 10 oz. to gain strength. Do your sons supinate the release of their curve balls ( turn the thumb up)? Get in line behind the catcher when your sons throw fastballs ( or curves). At the tops of their wind up can you see the ball or their elbow on the 1st base side of their head (assuming he is right handed)? Where does his pitching hand end up when he finishes his pitches. Does the hand come across his body? If your sons do these things (and they probably are) then they are systematically destryoing their arms. If your sons use weighted baseballs and have any of the flaws that I mention above you are only hastening the destruction of their arms.
Having said the above I wish you well.
quote:I've had 3 friends never able to pitch again because of weighted balls they have thrown.
Sure you do.............
I'm dead serious, but if you don't want to believe me I could careless. I'm not the one that uses weighted balls.
And by the way, doing drills focus on only 1 or 2 things at once, where pitching is putting everything together with good timing, drills will only slow it down.
I'd say only do drills (and certain drills that would make sense) if your a developing pitching. If you've already got good mechanics down then don't do any drills, or I will hunt you down and bi#* slap you
:P
And by the way, doing drills focus on only 1 or 2 things at once, where pitching is putting everything together with good timing, drills will only slow it down.
I'd say only do drills (and certain drills that would make sense) if your a developing pitching. If you've already got good mechanics down then don't do any drills, or I will hunt you down and bi#* slap you
:P
Kharma
No baseball background to speak of?
I was trying to get a handle on your black and white stance on weighted balls.
The commentary on Schilling was made by Remy and then elaborated on by Eckersley. I would tend to think that they both have a good understanding of the delivery.
I am curious where you are getting the info about the "epidemic" of pitching injuries?
Could you elaborate with some data or explain
what your answer is to move away from traditional pitching? I don't understand what you are saying?
As far as I know my son does not use weighted balls. I don't do any studies...LOL. I sit and count pitches and pray alot. And a few of us ladies on the HSBBW have a rule which states that there will absolutely be no supinating.....LOL
Is it possible to have any of the "symptoms" you mention without using weigted balls? Can a pitcher destoy his arm because of many, many factors?
I just did read a report from a stat guru who suggested:
5) Much of the discussion seems to proceed on the assumption that injury rates for pitchers are higher now than they used to be. I very much doubt that this is true. It seems to me overwhelmingly likely that the injury rates of modern pitchers are lower than they used to be, not higher.
No baseball background to speak of?
I was trying to get a handle on your black and white stance on weighted balls.
The commentary on Schilling was made by Remy and then elaborated on by Eckersley. I would tend to think that they both have a good understanding of the delivery.
I am curious where you are getting the info about the "epidemic" of pitching injuries?
Could you elaborate with some data or explain
what your answer is to move away from traditional pitching? I don't understand what you are saying?
As far as I know my son does not use weighted balls. I don't do any studies...LOL. I sit and count pitches and pray alot. And a few of us ladies on the HSBBW have a rule which states that there will absolutely be no supinating.....LOL
Is it possible to have any of the "symptoms" you mention without using weigted balls? Can a pitcher destoy his arm because of many, many factors?
I just did read a report from a stat guru who suggested:
5) Much of the discussion seems to proceed on the assumption that injury rates for pitchers are higher now than they used to be. I very much doubt that this is true. It seems to me overwhelmingly likely that the injury rates of modern pitchers are lower than they used to be, not higher.
Chill,
Its a PN troll.
Dont waste your time.
Its a PN troll.
Dont waste your time.
Chill,
I can't swear by not "supinating", but he definetly told me he does not use weighted balls
Sorry, couldn't resist!
I can't swear by not "supinating", but he definetly told me he does not use weighted balls
Sorry, couldn't resist!
Chill:
Everything I have read tells me that doctors are saying there are more pitching arm injuries than ever before. This is partly due to the population shifting to warmer climates, partly due to travel baseball, mostly due to improper force appliczation. HBO just did a story on it. ESPN has done stories. Having said that we do need a major government sponsored initiative in this area. I admit m info is anecdotal. You may want to check out this interesting piece on Seattle Mariner arm injuries: http://ussmariner.com/?p=2958
I am cut and dried against weighted balls becaue they are not heavy enough to recruit muscle fibers. With improper force application, they can speed up arm problems. Even proponents of weighted balls admit the latter. Since I feel that the traditional pitching motion is flawed to begin with, weighted basebals are flawed.
Curt Schilling has a poor pitching motion. He has to learn to stay tall and rotate. You will note that he bends forward at the waist. Not a good thing for the shoulder. (His wife is a very nice lady by the way).
As for your's and the ladies rule against supinating, please enforce it. It is a major reason for elbow problems. I assure you that virtually every pitcher associated with this web site supinates the release of their curve balls so you and the ladies have some work to do. Good luck.
As for many factors causing arm problems. Yes there are many. To wit: bringing the ball horizontally behind the acromial line of the shoulders; not having any degree of separation between the humerus and the forearm; bending at the waist; bringing the arm across the front of the body at release; pointing the ball toward second base; reverse rotating the shoulders; driving the ball forward with the elbow leading; striding instead of walking off the pitchers mound; having the body start forward when the ball is still going backward; and , of course, supinating the release of curve balls to name a few.
I have often wondered what the mothers of America are goiung to do when they find out how poorly their sons are being instructed. The pain in these kids arms will last long after they have thrown their last pitch.
Everything I have read tells me that doctors are saying there are more pitching arm injuries than ever before. This is partly due to the population shifting to warmer climates, partly due to travel baseball, mostly due to improper force appliczation. HBO just did a story on it. ESPN has done stories. Having said that we do need a major government sponsored initiative in this area. I admit m info is anecdotal. You may want to check out this interesting piece on Seattle Mariner arm injuries: http://ussmariner.com/?p=2958
I am cut and dried against weighted balls becaue they are not heavy enough to recruit muscle fibers. With improper force application, they can speed up arm problems. Even proponents of weighted balls admit the latter. Since I feel that the traditional pitching motion is flawed to begin with, weighted basebals are flawed.
Curt Schilling has a poor pitching motion. He has to learn to stay tall and rotate. You will note that he bends forward at the waist. Not a good thing for the shoulder. (His wife is a very nice lady by the way).
As for your's and the ladies rule against supinating, please enforce it. It is a major reason for elbow problems. I assure you that virtually every pitcher associated with this web site supinates the release of their curve balls so you and the ladies have some work to do. Good luck.
As for many factors causing arm problems. Yes there are many. To wit: bringing the ball horizontally behind the acromial line of the shoulders; not having any degree of separation between the humerus and the forearm; bending at the waist; bringing the arm across the front of the body at release; pointing the ball toward second base; reverse rotating the shoulders; driving the ball forward with the elbow leading; striding instead of walking off the pitchers mound; having the body start forward when the ball is still going backward; and , of course, supinating the release of curve balls to name a few.
I have often wondered what the mothers of America are goiung to do when they find out how poorly their sons are being instructed. The pain in these kids arms will last long after they have thrown their last pitch.
Kharma,
I have often wondered why people like you inhabit the internet and spread garbage every where they go.
So lets all wonder together - shall we?
I have often wondered why people like you inhabit the internet and spread garbage every where they go.
So lets all wonder together - shall we?
quote:Originally posted by Kharma:
As for your's and the ladies rule against supinating, please enforce it. It is a major reason for elbow problems. I assure you that virtually every pitcher associated with this web site supinates the release of their curve balls so you and the ladies have some work to do. Good luck.
We are very aware of supination, we just don't use it in the context you are referring too
I have often wondered what the mothers of America are goiung to do when they find out how poorly their sons are being instructed. The pain in these kids arms will last long after they have thrown their last pitch.
This mother of america has made sure son has and has had good instruction, and proper mechanics, no curve balls no fancy stuff (at an ealy age), an effective use of change and FB.
I do not disagree about pitching arm injuries. Just maybe your theory on the use of weighted balls, that's your opinion, show us some info.
Pitching arm injuries occur from overuse, curves used to early.
You know Curt's wife?
Game:
Since there appears to be a fair amount of mothers on this site:
I answered with specifics. What specifically do you disagree with and why? I hope the mothers are catching on that when men are challenged on this site they respond with invective. Let's wonder why?
Since there appears to be a fair amount of mothers on this site:
I answered with specifics. What specifically do you disagree with and why? I hope the mothers are catching on that when men are challenged on this site they respond with invective. Let's wonder why?
Kharma,
Here is what I am going to wonder.
I am going to wonder how I can get you eliminated from this site as quickly as I can.
Lets hold hands and wonder about this together.
Here is what I am going to wonder.
I am going to wonder how I can get you eliminated from this site as quickly as I can.
Lets hold hands and wonder about this together.
quote:Originally posted by Kharma:
Game:
Since there appears to be a fair amount of mothers on this site:
I answered with specifics. What specifically do you disagree with and why? I hope the mothers are catching on that when men are challenged on this site they respond with invective. Let's wonder why?
Some of us mom's can be INVECTIVE also!
I understand why some of you people are attacking Kharma. You all want to stick to your old ideas that gee the Earth is flat, but it's not.. (gasp).
Why would you want to use weighted balls? Velocity is an arm speed activity not an arm strength activity and weighted balls does not help for arm speed. They completely throw off your mechanics and control.
Why do humans always look for the quick answer, the quick fix, when there is none. Hard work, good mechanics, and proper timing = very good velocity
Why would you want to use weighted balls? Velocity is an arm speed activity not an arm strength activity and weighted balls does not help for arm speed. They completely throw off your mechanics and control.
Why do humans always look for the quick answer, the quick fix, when there is none. Hard work, good mechanics, and proper timing = very good velocity
XFactor meet kharma, Kharma meet XFactor. 
XFactor,
I am not attacking Kharma.
I am just trying to eliminate his vitriolic garbage and his identity.
I am not attacking Kharma.
I am just trying to eliminate his vitriolic garbage and his identity.
Alright, but why does there have to be such animosity? Can't we all just...get along? Don't be hatin guys, make love not war, comprenden? The nice thing about online forums is that everyone can put their information out there and whoever wants to use it or bits and pieces of it can. So what if someone's view is different from yours.
Sure I don't agree with some of the stuff some may write, but I don't attack them and want them "eliminated" Jeeeeesh
Sure I don't agree with some of the stuff some may write, but I don't attack them and want them "eliminated" Jeeeeesh
Xfactor,
Wake up buddy.
If you come on this sight and intentionally disparage anyone - whether it be a throwing instructor - a highly regarded high school coach - or anyone else for that matter - you will be eliminated. You "comprenden" that?
If you dont like that aspect of this site - you are most likely better off visiting another site.
Wake up buddy.
If you come on this sight and intentionally disparage anyone - whether it be a throwing instructor - a highly regarded high school coach - or anyone else for that matter - you will be eliminated. You "comprenden" that?
If you dont like that aspect of this site - you are most likely better off visiting another site.
quote:Curt Schilling has a poor pitching motion. He has to learn to stay tall and rotate. You will note that he bends forward at the waist. Not a good thing for the shoulder.
lol...good one, Kharma....I'll tell him
quote:Why would you want to use weighted balls? Velocity is an arm speed activity not an arm strength activity and weighted balls does not help for arm speed. They completely throw off your mechanics and control.
Agree with baseballbum...M A R I A N O
Its....Thanks for the HU
But Mariano doesn't use it to gain velocity, he just tosses it around to loosen up before he grabs a baseball and starts throwing off the mound
quote:Originally posted by XFactor:
But Mariano doesn't use it to gain velocity, he just tosses it around to loosen up before he grabs a baseball and starts throwing off the mound
How do you know?
quote:Alright, but why does there have to be such animosity? Can't we all just...get along? Don't be hatin guys, make love not war, comprenden?
'Scuse me, but have we all taken a trip on the Time Machine??
By the way, who's "INVECTIVE," anyway? New poster??
quote:Curt Schilling has a poor pitching motion. He has to learn to stay tall and rotate. You will note that he bends forward at the waist. Not a good thing for the shoulder. (His wife is a very nice lady by the way).
Curt has had a long and good career. I doubt he needs novice advice on his motion. lol
One should not use weighted balls if they do not have "good" mechanics. Period. I feel that the greatest benefit is from the underload portion of the training. I believe that it helps to increase arm speed.
As far a longtossing being useless or dangerous. Not buying it. To increase distance, you have to increase arm speed and timing. Use a good throwing motion and it will help incresase velocity. All pro teams use long tossing. None of these programs should be used if you have poor mechanics.
As far as injuries. Newsflash! Pitching is not a natural act. Injuries have always happened and there are all kinds of motions. A couple of novice website groupies will not be the be all end all of proper mechanics. Without actually performing the act, it is educated guesses. It is about athleticism. Injuries happen. Overuse is the biggest culprit, followed by poor mechanics. The increase in injuries is about overuse at young ages. Not weighted balls. I have seen with my own eyes the benefit of a properly administeredd weighted ball program.
Remember this. Gaining velocity is about mechanics, training, diet, lifting, core work, etc, etc, etc.... It is about maximizing the humand body, athletic ability, genetics, and a proper mental attitude.
You guys who preach about mechanics and injury cause and effect are making gross generalizations and ar off-base. JMO
I happen to not be a fan of early curve ball use or supination. However, there are some great onse who do it and have done it for years. Injury free I might add. There are also guys injured every year. IT HAPPENS.
PS hello Chill, Pamom, TPM asnd its. I have been away for a month. Good to be back.
quote:Originally posted by Bighit15:
PS hello Chill, Pamom, TPM asnd its. I have been away for a month. Good to be back.
Glad to have you back!
Hello Big.
Glad to have you back.
Regards
Glad to have you back.
Regards
Nice to have your expertise in this thread, Big.
How's Eric?
How's Eric?
Fine, had his first outing yesterday. Was a little wild the first 2 batters, then settled down. All in all, pretty good. He is just happy to be playing.
Big,
After careful consideration I've decided to wait until next year to go to the over/under balls with my son. I'm going to wait until his growth plates have pretty much fused. I'm not too worried about the overweight balls but don't believe there's that much benefit without the underload so there's no hurry. I do believe there's a bit more risk to throwing the underweight balls which naturally goes along with the increased benefit. This year we'll just work on overall strength and conditioning along with long toss. Next year after he's matured we'll go into the weighted ball program about the end of October in the hopes of adding an extra 2 or 3 mph prior to his sophmore season.
After careful consideration I've decided to wait until next year to go to the over/under balls with my son. I'm going to wait until his growth plates have pretty much fused. I'm not too worried about the overweight balls but don't believe there's that much benefit without the underload so there's no hurry. I do believe there's a bit more risk to throwing the underweight balls which naturally goes along with the increased benefit. This year we'll just work on overall strength and conditioning along with long toss. Next year after he's matured we'll go into the weighted ball program about the end of October in the hopes of adding an extra 2 or 3 mph prior to his sophmore season.
I did not start mine until after his soph season. I agree with your assessment.
XFactor you have a PM.
Jason
Jason